Greater Poleaxe of Sorrow
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DropsThis item is found on creatures. Plane of Torment
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Planes of Power
#REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 24 2004 at 11:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) hey. i like this, dose me some good'ol aggro with the proc. <_> dont let it rot <_> even. but 1 hand weps with a dual is better. more hp/stats/dps. *shrug* im still the best
3 posts
You People are to Judgemental....BLOW ME...its a game not a talk in psychology 101
Actually it would be "too judgemental". Once you learn proper grammar we will let you be.
Updated stats: Weapon is now 35/24, it got a +1/+1 compared to the screenshot.
This dropped yesterday. It rotted. People were saying that 2H weapons with a delay faster than 30 didn't get a bonus.
NOT True...
Weapon dmg bonus is a set thing...
1. 1h weaps depend SOLELY on the wielder's Level.
2. 2h weaps depend on both wielder level AND on delay.
Thus...
Fast weap doesn't mean it has no bonus ... just means that it has less. The speed of waep will make up for it tho...
Weapon dmg bonus is a set thing...
1. 1h weaps depend SOLELY on the wielder's Level.
2. 2h weaps depend on both wielder level AND on delay.
Thus...
Fast weap doesn't mean it has no bonus ... just means that it has less. The speed of waep will make up for it tho...
the extra speed on this definately makes up for the lost 17 pts or so of db heh.(if it was 28 delay)
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 05 2003 at 5:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yup, if a weapons is 27 delay, or lower, it gets a severe decrease in the amount of damage it puts out. This drop, however, still wasn't enough that someone should let this rot... Sometimes its nice to have a fast weapon.
6 posts
It's true that sub-28-delay 2h weapons lose a huge chunk of their damage bonus. However, that doesn't mean they can't output DPS near-equivalent to a weapon with a similar ratio that has a delay 28+.
(For the sake of this argument, assume procs and stats provide equal benefit. Weapons proc an equal amount regardless of delay, so just assume the proc is the same.)
I haven't done the testing myself, but according to tests done on the Monk boards I've seen, there's a certain ATK value where 2handers begin getting surpassed by 1handers in terms of damage output. Before this, 2handers usually provide higher DPS. This isn't always going to be true, because a 2hander from the EPs is most likely going to outdamage a pair of 1handers from elsewhere, whereas the Shinai and Quarm hammer are going to most likely outdamage a 2hb from outside Time. (The study put Shinai/Quarm Hammer at a slightly higher DPS than the Staff of Transcendence, highest DPS 2hb in the game)
The important thing to gather from their studies is that at extremely high ATK values, (beginning at 1400, I believe, and going past 1800, although at that point diminishing returns really begin kicking in) the effect of a large damage bonus on a weapon plays less of a factor in your overall DPS from melee damage. This is part of the reason Knight 1handers from EPs and Time actually *DO* get used and why 2handers with sub-28 delays actually *DO* get used. If your ATK rating is somewhere between 1000-1200, fairly common for Knights, especially without much in the way of worn ATK items or ATK buffs on, the 2hander damage bonus really helps you out. If your ATK raiting is 1300-1400 as a base, with ATK buffs on, you don't need to pay as much attention to damage bonuses as you do ratios. If the weapon's got a great ratio but is sub-28 delay, don't be scared off... it can output more damage than you'd expect.
Go to http://www.monkly-business.com and look through the forums, the post with all of the charts and better explanations of how ATK influences your overall DPS / choice of weapons is in there somewhere.
(For the sake of this argument, assume procs and stats provide equal benefit. Weapons proc an equal amount regardless of delay, so just assume the proc is the same.)
I haven't done the testing myself, but according to tests done on the Monk boards I've seen, there's a certain ATK value where 2handers begin getting surpassed by 1handers in terms of damage output. Before this, 2handers usually provide higher DPS. This isn't always going to be true, because a 2hander from the EPs is most likely going to outdamage a pair of 1handers from elsewhere, whereas the Shinai and Quarm hammer are going to most likely outdamage a 2hb from outside Time. (The study put Shinai/Quarm Hammer at a slightly higher DPS than the Staff of Transcendence, highest DPS 2hb in the game)
The important thing to gather from their studies is that at extremely high ATK values, (beginning at 1400, I believe, and going past 1800, although at that point diminishing returns really begin kicking in) the effect of a large damage bonus on a weapon plays less of a factor in your overall DPS from melee damage. This is part of the reason Knight 1handers from EPs and Time actually *DO* get used and why 2handers with sub-28 delays actually *DO* get used. If your ATK rating is somewhere between 1000-1200, fairly common for Knights, especially without much in the way of worn ATK items or ATK buffs on, the 2hander damage bonus really helps you out. If your ATK raiting is 1300-1400 as a base, with ATK buffs on, you don't need to pay as much attention to damage bonuses as you do ratios. If the weapon's got a great ratio but is sub-28 delay, don't be scared off... it can output more damage than you'd expect.
Go to http://www.monkly-business.com and look through the forums, the post with all of the charts and better explanations of how ATK influences your overall DPS / choice of weapons is in there somewhere.
At very high ATK values, you begin to see greater DPS through your weapons ratio than through the damage bonus.
However, in general, weapons with equal ratios will have their DPS dependant upon the Damage Bonus, especially since procs aren't effected by the speed of the weapon.
For 1-handers, there is a set dmg bonus that doesn't decrease, so you'll see dual-wielding classes that want the lowest delay to apply the damage bonus more often...
... but since 2-handers are given a much greater bonus for delay 28+, you really don't want to dip below that when looking for DPS, and you'll only draw more ripostes when tanking with a faster weapon as well.
However, in general, weapons with equal ratios will have their DPS dependant upon the Damage Bonus, especially since procs aren't effected by the speed of the weapon.
For 1-handers, there is a set dmg bonus that doesn't decrease, so you'll see dual-wielding classes that want the lowest delay to apply the damage bonus more often...
... but since 2-handers are given a much greater bonus for delay 28+, you really don't want to dip below that when looking for DPS, and you'll only draw more ripostes when tanking with a faster weapon as well.
Pain Lord Darknyss Grimscale
92 Iksar Crusader of the Greenmist
92 Iksar Crusader of the Greenmist
So people whine about 2handers being slow now they whine that they are too fast. People are friggn idiots...
Liveye (lvl 65 Wizard)
Liveye (lvl 65 Wizard)
If you understood "why" it would make sense and you wouldn't think it was dumb.
Edited, Tue Jun 21 09:34:23 2005
Edited, Tue Jun 21 09:34:23 2005
#REDACTED,
Posted: Apr 23 2003 at 10:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) With a faster weapon you will get reposted less because the amount of times reposte can be checked is set except during enrage. IE if you swing faster then the mob will not get as many chances to riposte your attacks. Course with a high haste item and haste buff if you miss an enrage message with this weapon you gonna be hurting fast.
14 posts
Hehe, I dont know how fast your weapon is to be faster then the split second it takes for a riposte to register but I know for a fact that the slower your weapons or weapon is the less riposte hits you will take. Less attacks made=less riposte chances, plain and simple, no way around it.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 29 2003 at 2:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Doy, btw if true repost chance is lest but... Then the weapon does less DPS. and if u a dmg and add delay, true, u get less reposted, but the repostes do more dmg.
Just because a weapon is slower doesn't mean the DPS is lower.
My windblade (50 dmg/44 dly) with a dmage bonus of 45 at lvl 65 is the best droppable 2HS weapon available for DPS. This fact has been proven through extensive parsing. The next weapon in line, a very close second, is the War Marshall's Bladed Staff (31 dmg/28 dly).
Now, if you use the WMBS, you will increase the damage you take from ripostes, and in PoP zones where mobs hit very hard and fast, that is the last thing you want to do. Even if the WMBS were better than the Windblade for DPS, if you are tanking you would be best advised to switch to the Windblade.
As a tank your job is to hold aggro, stay on your feet, and cost as little mana as possible. Damage dealers stand behind a mob and shoot/cast from range. Damage for a tank is secondary to keeping the mob focused on one target. It is in your, and your group's, best interest that you take as little damage as possible when tanking.
Fast weapon = more damage taken = more mana spent by cleric = potentially dead tank = potentially dead group.
Outside of PoP this may not hold true in most cases, but when you're in the planes and mobs are quadding for 700+, the last thing you want to do is give them free extra shots at you. Save your fast weapons for those times when you can whack the mob in the azz with it.
My windblade (50 dmg/44 dly) with a dmage bonus of 45 at lvl 65 is the best droppable 2HS weapon available for DPS. This fact has been proven through extensive parsing. The next weapon in line, a very close second, is the War Marshall's Bladed Staff (31 dmg/28 dly).
Now, if you use the WMBS, you will increase the damage you take from ripostes, and in PoP zones where mobs hit very hard and fast, that is the last thing you want to do. Even if the WMBS were better than the Windblade for DPS, if you are tanking you would be best advised to switch to the Windblade.
As a tank your job is to hold aggro, stay on your feet, and cost as little mana as possible. Damage dealers stand behind a mob and shoot/cast from range. Damage for a tank is secondary to keeping the mob focused on one target. It is in your, and your group's, best interest that you take as little damage as possible when tanking.
Fast weapon = more damage taken = more mana spent by cleric = potentially dead tank = potentially dead group.
Outside of PoP this may not hold true in most cases, but when you're in the planes and mobs are quadding for 700+, the last thing you want to do is give them free extra shots at you. Save your fast weapons for those times when you can whack the mob in the azz with it.
Yeah it's an old post, but replying anyway.
If you are tanking then you wouldn't be using either. As you said yourself, holding aggro is your number one task. Two Gnoll Hide Lariats would be better than these for that job.
As for DPS, well WMBS is better than Windblade slightly.. but a moot point now with the new weapons around (firstly velium gemmed, and now edge of envelopment) and as you will be standing behind the mob, riposte is irrelevant.
If you are tanking then you wouldn't be using either. As you said yourself, holding aggro is your number one task. Two Gnoll Hide Lariats would be better than these for that job.
As for DPS, well WMBS is better than Windblade slightly.. but a moot point now with the new weapons around (firstly velium gemmed, and now edge of envelopment) and as you will be standing behind the mob, riposte is irrelevant.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 07 2003 at 9:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just because a weapon is slower doesn't mean the DPS is lower.
5 posts
i dont have this weapon, but based on what i've heard from other knights who have weapons like this (32dmg 20dly) low delay weapons OWN pop mobs. the reason is PoP mobs have very very low AC. so the more you hit, the more damage you will do. The knight who had the 32/20 2hander said it out damaged his Grod by 15dps and his Emp sword by 20dps in PoP. again, this only goes for PoP due to the relatively low AC on the mobs.
2 posts
Recently got the Poleaxe.. unimpressed ... Blindfoe better cause of dmg bonus and proc.
In duel against 65 warrior using only melee i got owned with poleaxe. Blindfoe kept me within 10% of his hp's through fight.
In duel against 65 warrior using only melee i got owned with poleaxe. Blindfoe kept me within 10% of his hp's through fight.
10 posts
I'm surprised that you're not happy with the Poleaxe, Moonsilver. I only just acquired one myself and couldn't be more satisfied.
True, it doesn't have the dmg bonus of a slower weapon, and no process, but with a high end haste item the GPOS shines. Not to mention that even with a lower dmg bonus, you're swinging more often so the lower dmg bonus is being applied more frequently. So it averages out well. Plus, it appears that SoE has seemingly made most of the higher end PoP weapons lower dly weapons, so this must be the direction that SoE is taking. Doing XP groups I mow right through PoP mobs with SoS, and so far a mobs repostes don't appear to be much of a problem.
Its also more desirable than the Petrified Heartwood Flamberge that I used to use and still have, as the PHF root process can really mess up agro, or even pulls. The Greater Poleaxe of Slaughter is an excellent weapon imo.
Edited, Sun Mar 23 15:02:44 2003
True, it doesn't have the dmg bonus of a slower weapon, and no process, but with a high end haste item the GPOS shines. Not to mention that even with a lower dmg bonus, you're swinging more often so the lower dmg bonus is being applied more frequently. So it averages out well. Plus, it appears that SoE has seemingly made most of the higher end PoP weapons lower dly weapons, so this must be the direction that SoE is taking. Doing XP groups I mow right through PoP mobs with SoS, and so far a mobs repostes don't appear to be much of a problem.
Its also more desirable than the Petrified Heartwood Flamberge that I used to use and still have, as the PHF root process can really mess up agro, or even pulls. The Greater Poleaxe of Slaughter is an excellent weapon imo.
Edited, Sun Mar 23 15:02:44 2003
dupliciti
The same haste you're using can apply for a higher delay weapon as well. Haste is irrelevant when dealing with damage bonus and Blindfoe is by far more superior of a weapon than this. Fast 2-handers = sucks with SoE coding.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 25 2003 at 11:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) nerds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 11 2003 at 3:52 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Marlis.. please leave these boards.
Scholar
31 posts
Did Saryrn a few days ago, they changed the stats, it is now a 35/24 weapon, not 34/23.
We had two drop. Not sure if this is new or old, but they don't drop off Saryrn herself, but rather off the ravens she summons during the fight.
I will send in screen shots when I can :)
We had two drop. Not sure if this is new or old, but they don't drop off Saryrn herself, but rather off the ravens she summons during the fight.
I will send in screen shots when I can :)
31 posts
It was stated that this weapon has no affect on spells. Please explain what the 8 WIS 8 INT and 100 MANA do?
21 posts
I think the damage bonus completly screws this wepon IMO.
Windblade and some other nice POP wepons would more than likely outdamage this wepon overtime due to the BIG added DMG bonus.
Anyways Ive seen 60+ Warriors with 50/43 2hs wepons doing awsome damage in the planes and for the Rangers OMG they truly rock with damage out put from Bows cant see them wanting this :o)
Still a nice wepon non the less.
Chantarin 61 Crusader of Dragonguard
Windblade and some other nice POP wepons would more than likely outdamage this wepon overtime due to the BIG added DMG bonus.
Anyways Ive seen 60+ Warriors with 50/43 2hs wepons doing awsome damage in the planes and for the Rangers OMG they truly rock with damage out put from Bows cant see them wanting this :o)
Still a nice wepon non the less.
Chantarin 61 Crusader of Dragonguard
39 posts
I see that a lot of people say "Rangers have the bows so why would they want a weapon that does some good damage." Well there are certain instances where the bow cannot be used. Close quarter combat where adds would be garunteed if you tried to move out or even when a mob is pushed into a wall (I hate that bug). Now given, most rangers would prefer two one handed weapons, but some like the two handers for lack of agro. And who would argue with a weapon that has 100hp? =P
24 posts
I would agree Chantarin. If parsed it would be close. The ratio however is great but the stats arnt anything to drool over. And no proc? Sorry I'll take Goldenrod over this. Give it to an SK, make him think hes uber then go to the arena. Doesnt really matter cause a warrior will loot them all first cause they get everything first anyway. 
Duke Xaviore Deimos
60/70 Crusader
7th Hammer
Duke Xaviore Deimos
60/70 Crusader
7th Hammer
as a warrior, i'd much rather use emp or seru sword than this crap. it's good for raising 2hs i guess...but especially with pop mobs hitting 2k+, i don't need the extra ripostes, loss of aggro, and no proc on this.
I switched from a widebladed greatsword (35/35) to a two tined corpse pitchfork (26/22) and we parsed them both. The corpse pitchfork does more damage overall, and as an SK I'm kinda loving the extra procs due to the lower delay. As far as holding agro the faster weapon is far superior, and I haven't had any major problems with ripostes. Of course, on something that hits for 2k a shot it becomes a much more serious issue. Given a choice, I would still take the Emp or Seru sword I think, just because the procs could become an issue and with double the delay, the Emp sword has roughly three times the damage bonus.
Scholar
25 posts
/agree
I'm in the same boat as you. I love my Pickfork(26/22). In situations where I'm need to hold Agro this is the only weapon I choose. I switch to the Wideblade(35/35) or the Sceptre of Lightning(25/25) when I'm not supposed to hold agro.
As a SK with the pichfork's speed the added number of my 50hp and Mana tap procs I get is great. I can hardly wait to get my hands on something like this poleaxe to replace it. (Just got Torment Flagged the other night.) Adding a LDoN proc to the poleaxe or the pitchfork ... I can see keeping them around for a LONG time.
I'm in the same boat as you. I love my Pickfork(26/22). In situations where I'm need to hold Agro this is the only weapon I choose. I switch to the Wideblade(35/35) or the Sceptre of Lightning(25/25) when I'm not supposed to hold agro.
As a SK with the pichfork's speed the added number of my 50hp and Mana tap procs I get is great. I can hardly wait to get my hands on something like this poleaxe to replace it. (Just got Torment Flagged the other night.) Adding a LDoN proc to the poleaxe or the pitchfork ... I can see keeping them around for a LONG time.
Not to pick nits or anything, but this dropped off SorrowSong, Saryrn's pet bird. At least it did when we killed her.
I figure i am inviting ya'll to rip me a new hole, but, i gotta say it. With the delay on this beauty i figure that even a warrior might be considered when looting rights are decided. even though they aren't meant to deal the damage like pallys or sk's, or especialy rangers, they the delay on this is such that they might stand a chance at maintaining some aggro in a group as well as be pounding out insane damage, and any good source of damage is a boon for any group. the same goes for rangers for that matter, if you were to have a ranger in group with you that had this all you would need to do to keep em from gettin to much aggro is maybe be a little stingy with the haste, the weapon for it's damage is already fast enough for their damage output to be insane. But that is the perspective of a relative newb, i have limited experiance with post 50 play and my current char isn't even close to that kind of end game stuff as of now.
Oogieboog Ickysnott 32 warrior OF The Nameless
oof, somebody shoot me for posting with that kind of grammer, ieouch.
Oogieboog Ickysnott 32 warrior OF The Nameless
oof, somebody shoot me for posting with that kind of grammer, ieouch.
10 posts
To let you know about the ranger skill caps...By lvl 50, they still only have 200 skill in weapon skills (just like pal/sk), but post 50, ranger's skills increase really quickly (5 per lvl I think), where pal/sk skills only increase 3 per lvl. So soon after lvl 50, rangers will have the same skills as a warr again. I do think that at lvl 50 a ranger will still outdmg a warr despite slightly lower skills ... this would be due to an innate ability to do more dmg, not reflected in their attack.
For example, if there was a monk and a warrior, and they both had the same ratio weapons and the same attack, the monk would still do noticably more dmg because monks are "flagged" as an offensive class. For all we know, there is probably some little stat that VI won't show us that is higher on monks, rogues and rangers.
BTW, I'm not 100 % sure about all of what I've said about rangers skills and dmg output, as I only play a ranger as an alt. But most of it should be correct going by what I've heard and asked about = )
So after all that talking...err, typing rather...I would say that rangers would likely do a decent amount of damage with this weapon, and surely would be considered for looting = )
Janglur 55 SK
7th Hammer
For example, if there was a monk and a warrior, and they both had the same ratio weapons and the same attack, the monk would still do noticably more dmg because monks are "flagged" as an offensive class. For all we know, there is probably some little stat that VI won't show us that is higher on monks, rogues and rangers.
BTW, I'm not 100 % sure about all of what I've said about rangers skills and dmg output, as I only play a ranger as an alt. But most of it should be correct going by what I've heard and asked about = )
So after all that talking...err, typing rather...I would say that rangers would likely do a decent amount of damage with this weapon, and surely would be considered for looting = )
Janglur 55 SK
7th Hammer
Scholar
36 posts
Knight's weapon skills cap at 225. I believe warriors weapon skills cap at 255.
Warriors are on a higher damage table above knight's, so generally, with weapons of equal quality, the warrior is going to outdamage a knight under the same fighting conditions, i.e. both attacking a mobs back.
Shadowknights come slightly ahead in DPS over paladins due to their DoT's and lifetaps and spear spells, they also have a pet they can use for some small additional DPS. Shadowknights will more closely match a warriors dps, but either remain equal or slightly below them... remember spells take time to cast, so you lose melee dps from casting time.
Vs undead, if a pally has SU, pally's will generally match or surpass warriors and shadowknights both in terms of DPS.
The reason why high end rangers are rarely seen with anything but a bow equipped nowdays, is because of the AA skills they get to enhance archery. With archery mastery 3, endless quiver, some nice player made arrows, and a nice bow, a ranger is going to easily outdamage warriors, shadowknights, and paladins. Usually matching rogues and monks. The disadvantage is mobs being in a wall where arrows will not hit the mob, line of sight issues, and the fact that arrows can break mezzes on mezzed mobs.
Advantages are, you lose no dps due to melee/caster push and mob being out of range, you can't see the mob, you can't position yourself close to mob because of 40 other melee in front of you etc. You also can avoid most monster AoE (area of effect spells), and require little to no healing since you are not being damaged.
Usually this is why some rangers will outdamage rogues because they don't have the diasadvantage of trying to be in melee range, and then the other added disadvantage of being forced to be BEHIND the mob for backstabbing purposes. When your in a 72 man raid, sometimes it's hard just to get close enough to a mob to attack because 50 other people are in your way.
That being said, most rangers do NOT go in on nice weapons that are war/pal/sk useable. Simply because their melee weapons sit in a bag 95% of the time, except in special circumstances where their bow is of little use. That's why there is a few very nice RNG *only* weapons, so they can still have a chance at nice weapons without shafting the melee who rely on them for dps.
For example you will never see a pal/SK go in a nice high end bow, for the same reasons... it will get little use, or practically no use at all.
Warriors are on a higher damage table above knight's, so generally, with weapons of equal quality, the warrior is going to outdamage a knight under the same fighting conditions, i.e. both attacking a mobs back.
Shadowknights come slightly ahead in DPS over paladins due to their DoT's and lifetaps and spear spells, they also have a pet they can use for some small additional DPS. Shadowknights will more closely match a warriors dps, but either remain equal or slightly below them... remember spells take time to cast, so you lose melee dps from casting time.
Vs undead, if a pally has SU, pally's will generally match or surpass warriors and shadowknights both in terms of DPS.
The reason why high end rangers are rarely seen with anything but a bow equipped nowdays, is because of the AA skills they get to enhance archery. With archery mastery 3, endless quiver, some nice player made arrows, and a nice bow, a ranger is going to easily outdamage warriors, shadowknights, and paladins. Usually matching rogues and monks. The disadvantage is mobs being in a wall where arrows will not hit the mob, line of sight issues, and the fact that arrows can break mezzes on mezzed mobs.
Advantages are, you lose no dps due to melee/caster push and mob being out of range, you can't see the mob, you can't position yourself close to mob because of 40 other melee in front of you etc. You also can avoid most monster AoE (area of effect spells), and require little to no healing since you are not being damaged.
Usually this is why some rangers will outdamage rogues because they don't have the diasadvantage of trying to be in melee range, and then the other added disadvantage of being forced to be BEHIND the mob for backstabbing purposes. When your in a 72 man raid, sometimes it's hard just to get close enough to a mob to attack because 50 other people are in your way.
That being said, most rangers do NOT go in on nice weapons that are war/pal/sk useable. Simply because their melee weapons sit in a bag 95% of the time, except in special circumstances where their bow is of little use. That's why there is a few very nice RNG *only* weapons, so they can still have a chance at nice weapons without shafting the melee who rely on them for dps.
For example you will never see a pal/SK go in a nice high end bow, for the same reasons... it will get little use, or practically no use at all.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 25 2002 at 6:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) stfu newbie shadowknights and palys tank just as good as a warrior 
and besides a 2 hander would be better in a palys or SK hands anyways so uhhhh thereeee
and besides a 2 hander would be better in a palys or SK hands anyways so uhhhh thereeee
not to diss or anything but i just did a skill cap comparison between war sk and pally in offence and 2hs, and i found that post lvl 50 warriors have the higher skill caps, now wouldn't that translate into more dps with pure melee than any pally or sk? so a warrior wielding this sucker could concievably out damage a pally or sk hands down, that is if you don't count their spells which this weapon has no bearing on and are going to be present in the same form regardless of what weapon they wield. In fact they could probably get weapons that help in that catigory better than this without sacrificing to much dps with their weapons.
OMG, i think i just poopoo'ed on the idea that warriors are infurior to pallys and sk's in 2hs, that is in regards to this weapon, there are weapons with stats so favored to the hybrid that warriors should'nt roll for em, and the status of warriors outdamaging the hybrid in pure melee aspects will change once they make a better 2hs that's pally, sk only.
i didn't look up rangers so i am not sure how their skills compare to warriors or the others, they may deserve this weapon over all else for all i know.
Oogieboog Ickysnott 37 Warrior The nameless
OMG, i think i just poopoo'ed on the idea that warriors are infurior to pallys and sk's in 2hs, that is in regards to this weapon, there are weapons with stats so favored to the hybrid that warriors should'nt roll for em, and the status of warriors outdamaging the hybrid in pure melee aspects will change once they make a better 2hs that's pally, sk only.
i didn't look up rangers so i am not sure how their skills compare to warriors or the others, they may deserve this weapon over all else for all i know.
Oogieboog Ickysnott 37 Warrior The nameless
Edited, Wed Dec 4 20:02:16 2002
2 posts
With aa points a sk or pally is gonna outdmg a war 2hs wise
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 06 2002 at 9:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I got this weap cause no one else needed it =P (hand of ro guild super uber) just to keep as a trophy haha :-)
9 posts
i think i am going to cry from that statement
Grak Na'Shezbaernon 52 Troll Champion
Svex Shabahl'Namar 34 Dark Elf Wizard
Jarsawl Ibn'Zakaris 24 Vahshir Shaman
Grak Na'Shezbaernon 52 Troll Champion
Svex Shabahl'Namar 34 Dark Elf Wizard
Jarsawl Ibn'Zakaris 24 Vahshir Shaman
Some warrior or pally or sk wouldve taken. He couldnt have been serious, atleast I hope he wasnt.
OOOO prety me want take me to get it
20 posts
Greater Poleaxe of Sorrow + Vallon's Quickening(Increase Attack Speed by 68%) and best haste item (41% faster i think)= LOVE
Not saying my Ranger would turn this fine weapon down but I am shocked that it is not Pal/SK only. I can understand the War being on there but Ranger? That is a lot of dam for a ranger to be doing.
Scholar
33 posts
Enfiniti,
It actually makes more sense for Rangers to get a high damage two-handed weapon than Sks/Pals. The only exception are one-handed weapons.
You may not realize this at level 49, but Rangers are an offensive melee class. This means that in high level encounters, they are supposed to have better ATK, higher weapon skills and overall, greater DPS (damage per second) than Shadowknights and Paladins, who are defensive classes. SKs and Pallies on the other hand, will have better defensive skills, and higher AC and HP. Warrior really get the best of both worlds, being pure melee specialists. As a trade off though, they don't get to use magic and they dont get any really cool abilities like hide/sneak/Backstab or FD/mend.
In fact, Rangers should have better DPS than warriors too, simply cause they will have similar weapons but normally have a better ATK rating, due to many self-attack buffs and the fact that they can focus on ATK abit more than Warriors who have to put primary focus on STA/HP/AC etc.
Thus, it would actually make less sense to give the most damaging two handers in the game to Sk/Pal but not to Rng.
The only reason Sks/Paladins get special exception with the one-handed weapons is VI wanted them to be able to use sheilds, and still do decent damage without dual weilding. Thus you have SK/Pal only one handed weapons that do a lot more damage than warr/rng/monk one handers. This has no relevence with two handed weapons though.
As far as aggro concerns, it doesnt nessecarily follow that the MT should be doing the most damage. It makes things easier sometimes, but damage is not nearly the only factor with hate and aggro.
Rangers are given jolting blades and cinder jolt to reduce aggro, and SKs/Pallies have plenty of good spells they can use to get aggro if they need to tank-mez (we call it "spite tanking" on test) or MT for a small group.
On top of all this, very few people under 65 will be seeing this weapon any time soon, and if you run with that kind of crowd, your MT will be able to hold his aggro.
-Davarien
61 Warder, Test Server
It actually makes more sense for Rangers to get a high damage two-handed weapon than Sks/Pals. The only exception are one-handed weapons.
You may not realize this at level 49, but Rangers are an offensive melee class. This means that in high level encounters, they are supposed to have better ATK, higher weapon skills and overall, greater DPS (damage per second) than Shadowknights and Paladins, who are defensive classes. SKs and Pallies on the other hand, will have better defensive skills, and higher AC and HP. Warrior really get the best of both worlds, being pure melee specialists. As a trade off though, they don't get to use magic and they dont get any really cool abilities like hide/sneak/Backstab or FD/mend.
In fact, Rangers should have better DPS than warriors too, simply cause they will have similar weapons but normally have a better ATK rating, due to many self-attack buffs and the fact that they can focus on ATK abit more than Warriors who have to put primary focus on STA/HP/AC etc.
Thus, it would actually make less sense to give the most damaging two handers in the game to Sk/Pal but not to Rng.
The only reason Sks/Paladins get special exception with the one-handed weapons is VI wanted them to be able to use sheilds, and still do decent damage without dual weilding. Thus you have SK/Pal only one handed weapons that do a lot more damage than warr/rng/monk one handers. This has no relevence with two handed weapons though.
As far as aggro concerns, it doesnt nessecarily follow that the MT should be doing the most damage. It makes things easier sometimes, but damage is not nearly the only factor with hate and aggro.
Rangers are given jolting blades and cinder jolt to reduce aggro, and SKs/Pallies have plenty of good spells they can use to get aggro if they need to tank-mez (we call it "spite tanking" on test) or MT for a small group.
On top of all this, very few people under 65 will be seeing this weapon any time soon, and if you run with that kind of crowd, your MT will be able to hold his aggro.
-Davarien
61 Warder, Test Server
49 posts
good aruguments all around, all im gonna say is that its been my experience that most rangers that would be in a possition to actually obtain this weapon normally just like to bow kite, and usually have their am3 skill, unless they happen to be in a tanking role in a small exp group i dont really see rangers i know meleeing much anymore, and yes i personally have been hit by an arrow from an am3 ranger and i took about 300 dmg give or take per shot, would be cool to see a ranger with a big 2hs wep running around though.
eepson neversafe
59 beastlord
stormhammer
www.thetwelve.org
eepson neversafe
59 beastlord
stormhammer
www.thetwelve.org
34 posts
lol 300 damage an arrow? what about crits in the 1k+ range, and frequently too because rangers have such high dexterity. 300 is nothing compared to a ranger's full potential.
Honestly, though I don't disagree with rangers being able to use this weapon, I must disagree with some of your logic regarding Paladins and Shadowknights...
In my experience, Knights (paladins and shadowknights) are defensive tanks. We are meant to deal rather considerable damage to an enemy, but we are not "DPS masters" by any right. A Knight was not given dual wield I think because they are meant to wield the most singularly powerful weaponry. When I envision a Paladin, my first thought is of the Fiery Avenger, the first true "Epic" weapon, which in its day was also one of, if not the, most powerful sword available, and given to the Paladin to wield.
From another perspective, Rangers, to the best of my knowledge, rarely utilize 2hs weapons at the upper levels... I am not saying that it never happens, just that the effectiveness of a ranger as an offensive damage dealer is best seen when they are dual wielding... They sacrifice the single powerful stroke in favour of multiple attacks at one time.
Anyway, such is my own two cents on the issue... I respect the role of rangers as powerful offensive fast-damage dealers, but I believe the two-handed weapons are better used by the Knights or warriors.
Edited, Thu Nov 7 14:20:44 2002
In my experience, Knights (paladins and shadowknights) are defensive tanks. We are meant to deal rather considerable damage to an enemy, but we are not "DPS masters" by any right. A Knight was not given dual wield I think because they are meant to wield the most singularly powerful weaponry. When I envision a Paladin, my first thought is of the Fiery Avenger, the first true "Epic" weapon, which in its day was also one of, if not the, most powerful sword available, and given to the Paladin to wield.
From another perspective, Rangers, to the best of my knowledge, rarely utilize 2hs weapons at the upper levels... I am not saying that it never happens, just that the effectiveness of a ranger as an offensive damage dealer is best seen when they are dual wielding... They sacrifice the single powerful stroke in favour of multiple attacks at one time.
Anyway, such is my own two cents on the issue... I respect the role of rangers as powerful offensive fast-damage dealers, but I believe the two-handed weapons are better used by the Knights or warriors.
Edited, Thu Nov 7 14:20:44 2002
There are a few reasons why this is also Ranger-usable. If you look, you'll see that these four classes can use 2HS. They are the *only* four classes that can use it. Also, given the new Ranger PoP AA (Punishing Blade, I think) that grants the possibility of a triple attack with two-handers, it's understandable that Rangers be included. However, I wouldn't expect to see many Rangers interested in it. The level rec of 53 is a bit beyond the levels that most Rangers use two-handed weapons. Most switch to 1-handers exclusively by level 51, especially after earning Swiftwind. As for the weapon itself, the damage/delay is a bit intriguing. The delay is so low that the damage bonus is almost useless when you consider that the DB on a 1-hander at level 61 is 12. The damage is so-so. Personally, I see this more as a novelty weapon than anything.
Well one thing is that like he hinted at there in the original post was that 2hs don't produce much aggro. Also, with a weapon like this, who cares what type of weapon it is? It still has an insane ratio! Also, many rangers get all their offensive skills up, like mine did at level 40-50 (except 1hb because he ran out of money to get a decent one). So any good ranger has all of his abilities up. However, for 2 minutes, rangers are the best dps in the game and still retain REALLY low aggro once they hit level 55 and then even more so at 59 (Trueshot=55, Archery Mastery=59) and use their bows, not any sort of sword. /drool @ wormwood bow. /learns to feign death @ whatever bow will drop in plane of time...
8 posts
As a level 62 ShadowKnight who buffs to 6.2K hp and tanks often second and sometimes third tier PoP mobs, I feel compelled to say that in keeping agro, I do MUCH better with a two handed weapon than I do with a one hander. This may not be true for those who can dual wield, but in every case that I have tried and compared, time and again my agro has been kept better by a 2 hander than a one handed weapon. I went through numerous times in the trials switching between a 42dam/49del 2hs and a 20dam(+3Mag)/27delay and a shield, for more Hp. The enchanter got wasted often with the 1hs, whereas it took me very little time to get agro back on the 2hs weapon. I have checked agro in other zones, as well, and it always comes out that the 2 hander wins.
lol, anything can produce aggro, especially a strong ratio 2hander, i use both a 28/30 and a 51/54 day in and out in exp groups. weilding both wepons while on the Same buffs, my 2hander will significantly out tuant my 1hs, mobs just Dont like to be hit for dbl 350's! where as my best 1hs dbl would be 250's. ya the 2hs dosent swing has fast as say the 30dly, but its like they say, the lower your original dly on whichever wepon will see smaller improvements with haste whereas a 2hs will see huge leaps in speed, IF we could get to 110percent haste(we actually can, with item,bard,caster haste stacked), the 30 would drop to a 15, the 54 would be a 27, now at those hastes which is better a 28dmg or a 51 dmg? ya thought so, the 51/54 kicks the 28/30 in the dirt.
alil FYi from a SK who is Nonstop the replacement warrior, hell i dont even get to play my class in groups, im always pretending to be a warrior, with alil snare.
Edited, Tue Nov 12 04:23:23 2002
alil FYi from a SK who is Nonstop the replacement warrior, hell i dont even get to play my class in groups, im always pretending to be a warrior, with alil snare.
Edited, Tue Nov 12 04:23:23 2002
Aye hon, I was more than a little suprised to see this gem of a weapon to be ranger useable, but there are no ugly comments from me :-)
I totally have to agree that it is a novelty to see that a ranger has finally getting the chance to show off its full potential with a weapon like this but i don't see it happening all that often seeing as pallys and sk are definetly taking a lead in that MT position, i don't think they will ever really be as demanded a tank as a warrior but hey it is nice to see some classes getting new oppurtunity, i don't thing i will see many rangers setting aside their 1handers for this though.
39 posts
sorry, but as great as it is to see rangers using 2HS as a novelty, the rangers true potential is in its Archery and Dual Weilding skills.
30 posts
you are an idiot.
entality of the game has shifted towards SK's and Paly's being hte main 2 hander users, merely because it became obvious quite a while back that warriros were better off with single handed weapons. But since day one those 4 classes have been 2 hander classes.
Personally, it would be a travesty if a paly or SK didnt get this, but it certainly doesnt mean a warrior or ranger wouldnt put it to good use.
Grunter Tonedeth
Virtuoso of Frayed Knot
The Rathe
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=325897
Personally, it would be a travesty if a paly or SK didnt get this, but it certainly doesnt mean a warrior or ranger wouldnt put it to good use.
Grunter Tonedeth
Virtuoso of Frayed Knot
The Rathe
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=325897
28 posts
Huh Windblade, What is that?
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 05 2002 at 6:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) anyone have some napkins? I think I just wet myself. way nice 2HS for SK/pally. cant wait to get my hands on one of these!
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 05 2002 at 11:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) /drool nuthin.... be left alone with this weapon in EQ and youll have more than theropy bills.....
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 05 2002 at 6:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this weapon is perty fast for a 2hander and it being godly is just mad
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 05 2002 at 5:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) At last a decent ratio!
The delay under 30 will seriously hamper the DPS you do, as it wont AT ALL calculate the inate bonus for damage that 2 handed weapons receive. I'd have to see it parsed against comparable one handed weapons to be for sure, but AFAIK, the damage will suffer. Note the dmg bonus in the pic, its only 13. On a GIANT 2 hander.
edit: spllin is hard.
Edited, Tue Nov 5 21:55:04 2002
edit: spllin is hard.
Edited, Tue Nov 5 21:55:04 2002
only the parsing will tell, however for the shadowknights and paladins who can't dual weild, I dont think damage will be as hampered as you think.
Long ago 2hs and 2hb were shunned by many as being inferior in damage output to one handers, the high delay damage bonus was created specificaly to bring the damage of slow 2handers up to the level that fast one handers do.
Now will it do comparable damage for a class that can dual weild? ... if not than this really is a SK/Pal only weapon in disquise.
Long ago 2hs and 2hb were shunned by many as being inferior in damage output to one handers, the high delay damage bonus was created specificaly to bring the damage of slow 2handers up to the level that fast one handers do.
Now will it do comparable damage for a class that can dual weild? ... if not than this really is a SK/Pal only weapon in disquise.
39 posts
what am amazing argument. its a SK pally weapon
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