Lamentation
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DropsThis item is found on creatures. Old Sebilis
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Ruins of Kunark
What sword would be considered a step up from a lammy for a warrior?
14 posts
a step up from Lammy would be Bed Leg Club (10/19) although that is 1hb.. in the 1hs catagory I would say that SBoZ,Swiftblade of Zek (11/18), is the step up of the Lammy. Course, thats just me.
Probably the one that does more damage?
3 posts
I'm a 51 ranger and have been wondering for a long time now what weapon best to use in what hand. At the moment I'm using a black acrylia scimitar (depending on situation sometimes a lammy) in primary and a lammy in secondary. Please dont post 10000 replies about how ranger+lammy is death cause I've read em all already and we have jolt and clerics to take care of that. The primary weapon isn't hard to figure out in my opinion, the dmg bonus applies so a low delay weapon has a big advantage over a slow weapon.
What is harder to figure out is what weapon to use in your offhand. I wanted to choose between a lammy and a centiLS. Now I'm not sure if I've missed anything in the calculation I made, no doubt I have and if so please let me know cause I'd really like to figure this out correctly. But here's how I think this logically seems to work:
All hits are taken over a standard time, say 100 units. In this time a lammy would hit 100/19 = 5.263 times and a centiLS would hit 100/27 = 3.704 times. This means a lammy would do 5.263*9 = 47.376 and a centiLS would do 3.704*14=51.852 dmg using mx base dmg to compare the two. The centiLS therefore does (47.376/51.852)-1 = 8.632% more dmg.
A few things about this calculation. It doesn't matter what dmg u use for it, base max. or ave. it always comes to 8.632%. This strictly figures out the dmg difference of the base stats, so no bonuses.
Now at lvl 50, with 200 dual wield I get a 41.67% chance of making my second hit. During a time period of 100 units this roll is made 5.263 times for the lammy and 3.704 times for the centiLS. which means the lammy will make (3.704/5.263)-1 = 29.622% more attempts. A lammy will therefore hit 41.67% of 29.622%= 12.345% more often.
Effectively this makes the lammy 12.345% faster. Which means you can say it has a delay of 19*(1-0.12345) = 16.654 when compared with the centiLS.
If you take this back into the initial figures the lammy now gets a value of 100/16.654*9 = 54.041 compared to the 51.852 of the centiLS making it (51.852/54.041)-1 = 4.051% more effective.
Now I haven't added any bonuses to this as I'm not sure how str exactly effets it but if someone can tell me that then I can thro it into the calculation. This mearly compares the 2 weapons' base dmg vs. dly at lvl 50 with 200 dual wield skill.
Please add any constructive replies u can think of to this and if possible refrain from the rangers and agro bs or if I've made a mistake somewhere from telling me what a fool I am 10000 times.
What is harder to figure out is what weapon to use in your offhand. I wanted to choose between a lammy and a centiLS. Now I'm not sure if I've missed anything in the calculation I made, no doubt I have and if so please let me know cause I'd really like to figure this out correctly. But here's how I think this logically seems to work:
All hits are taken over a standard time, say 100 units. In this time a lammy would hit 100/19 = 5.263 times and a centiLS would hit 100/27 = 3.704 times. This means a lammy would do 5.263*9 = 47.376 and a centiLS would do 3.704*14=51.852 dmg using mx base dmg to compare the two. The centiLS therefore does (47.376/51.852)-1 = 8.632% more dmg.
A few things about this calculation. It doesn't matter what dmg u use for it, base max. or ave. it always comes to 8.632%. This strictly figures out the dmg difference of the base stats, so no bonuses.
Now at lvl 50, with 200 dual wield I get a 41.67% chance of making my second hit. During a time period of 100 units this roll is made 5.263 times for the lammy and 3.704 times for the centiLS. which means the lammy will make (3.704/5.263)-1 = 29.622% more attempts. A lammy will therefore hit 41.67% of 29.622%= 12.345% more often.
Effectively this makes the lammy 12.345% faster. Which means you can say it has a delay of 19*(1-0.12345) = 16.654 when compared with the centiLS.
If you take this back into the initial figures the lammy now gets a value of 100/16.654*9 = 54.041 compared to the 51.852 of the centiLS making it (51.852/54.041)-1 = 4.051% more effective.
Now I haven't added any bonuses to this as I'm not sure how str exactly effets it but if someone can tell me that then I can thro it into the calculation. This mearly compares the 2 weapons' base dmg vs. dly at lvl 50 with 200 dual wield skill.
Please add any constructive replies u can think of to this and if possible refrain from the rangers and agro bs or if I've made a mistake somewhere from telling me what a fool I am 10000 times.
Ignoring what kind of taunt or agro you're shooting for, and just looking at pure damage, you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS put your fastest weapon in your primary hand. No ifs ands or buts. Damage bonuses ONLY apply to primary, and not secondary so you wanna start swinging pretty fast with your main weapon to rack up all the bonuses. Ignore any newbz that tell you ratio is better in main.
4 posts
Well just wanted to say that your calculations gets erroneous with:
************
Now at lvl 50, with 200 dual wield I get a 41.67% chance of making my second hit. During a time period of 100 units this roll is made 5.263 times for the lammy and 3.704 times for the centiLS. which means the lammy will make (3.704/5.263)-1 = 29.622% more attempts. A lammy will therefore hit 41.67% of 29.622%= 12.345% more often.
************
As long as the chance to hit are similar with both weapons the percentage itself does not influence the difference between the weapons.
Nice calculations otherwise.
************
Now at lvl 50, with 200 dual wield I get a 41.67% chance of making my second hit. During a time period of 100 units this roll is made 5.263 times for the lammy and 3.704 times for the centiLS. which means the lammy will make (3.704/5.263)-1 = 29.622% more attempts. A lammy will therefore hit 41.67% of 29.622%= 12.345% more often.
************
As long as the chance to hit are similar with both weapons the percentage itself does not influence the difference between the weapons.
Nice calculations otherwise.
Scholar
23 posts
I love to see posts using good rational and sound calculations!
A great change from - "my daddy is bigger than your daddy cause mommy says so!"
If anyone knows of a good web page with formulas for figuring out various statistics on EQ (max damage of weapon, mana calculations, XP required for each level, etc..) please let me know
Edited, Thu Jan 23 13:22:44 2003
A great change from - "my daddy is bigger than your daddy cause mommy says so!"
If anyone knows of a good web page with formulas for figuring out various statistics on EQ (max damage of weapon, mana calculations, XP required for each level, etc..) please let me know
Edited, Thu Jan 23 13:22:44 2003
Wow, I am quite impressed by the calculations (as long as they are correct...).
When I tried to calculate this one out, I allowed each weapon to have a "finishing" swing at the same instant. Therefore, each would have the exact same amount of time to produce as much damage as possible. The amount of time allotted was (19 * 27) = 513 units. The lammy would have completed exactly 27 swings and the centi would have completed exactly 19 swings.
According to the above post, 41.67% of these swings would hit: 27 * 0.4167 = 11.25 of the lammy swings would hit. 19 * 0.4167 = 7.92 of the centi swings would hit.
Now add damage to the swings:
Lammy: 11.25 * 9 = 101.25 damage in 513 units of time.
Centi: 7.92 * 14 = 110.88 damage in 513 units of time.
This would lead me to believe that the centi would output more damage in a longer battle, but I may be wrong.
Like above, any suggestions or corrections would be appreciated.
When I tried to calculate this one out, I allowed each weapon to have a "finishing" swing at the same instant. Therefore, each would have the exact same amount of time to produce as much damage as possible. The amount of time allotted was (19 * 27) = 513 units. The lammy would have completed exactly 27 swings and the centi would have completed exactly 19 swings.
According to the above post, 41.67% of these swings would hit: 27 * 0.4167 = 11.25 of the lammy swings would hit. 19 * 0.4167 = 7.92 of the centi swings would hit.
Now add damage to the swings:
Lammy: 11.25 * 9 = 101.25 damage in 513 units of time.
Centi: 7.92 * 14 = 110.88 damage in 513 units of time.
This would lead me to believe that the centi would output more damage in a longer battle, but I may be wrong.
Like above, any suggestions or corrections would be appreciated.
dunno but as for a warrior i would ake lammy main cls off hehe not a bad combo but just a fun one if u wanna see dmg output
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 01 2003 at 12:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i have another question, i posted before if i shuld get a lammy. well iv had it for along time now and im lvl 38. im glad i bought the lammy, i hardly miss with it too, but i have a Jagged Long Sword is secondary,16/30, and its great damage! i hit for a max of 60 with it, but oddly i miss alot, when i duel wield with it, 1 hit will get it, (lammy), and then it will miss(JLS). Its great damage but if its going to miss id rather have something else... Now, i cant buy something too expensive, no more then 2k. and id prefer something around 1k, iv tried a SSoY and it hits more often but my dex is too low considering all the Crusty armor i have and it doesnt proc enough to be that useful + its already getting resisted quite often, and i hunt in OT, i can only just picture the resistance of it in DL .what is a good combo with my lammy i can stick with for a long time? Any suggestion of a good secondary weapon, or should i stick with the JLS?
19 posts
I am a little bit off a low lvl but hmmm my skill is 37 with 1hs. I miss more than 50% of my hits. Im kind of puzzled because i dont even miss this much with the sword i begin with. Does anyone have an answer of why this is happening?
27 posts
What you hit is all relative to your level and the level of the mobs (well their ac). Remember how hard it was to hit that first fire beetle when your skill was at 0? There are some mobs that are that hard for me to hit at 51. The first time I grouped in HK at 20, I hit the first Pickclaw Cabalist 2 or 3 time in the whole battle. When your skill gets maxed and you are fighting mobs of the proper level, you will be hitting an appropriate amount.
33 posts
I found the Sword of Skyfire-Lamentation combo to work nicely for my warrior. Then with his FBSS they become a 10/18 and a 9/15. I deal out some nice damage. He normally kills the mob before it can deal much damage to him, even higher cons. I like my combo, at level 45 I'll probaly have to ditch the Skyfire though due to the dangerous proc, but maybe I'll still keep it in a pack for times I feel like being a bit destructive...
In the end all the post comparing these two or other weapons is about which commonlly obtainable and afforadble sword is best. If there was only one answer to this question We would all be using the same sword. Even in the hayday of the kunark equipment there was a split (the never ending debate on Lamy Vs Wurmy)
In the end what sword (or weapon) is best for you is a function of a number of things, your lvl, your amount of disposable cash, And how near you are to lvl max in your skill.
Level come into play in a number of ways: There are damage caps per lvl 10 and pre lvl 20. There is the primary hand damage bonus, and now recomended lvl of use.
As a war we can use 5 diffrent types of weapons and, we should make a resonable effort to lvl max all of these skills. And as you know in EQ the more you do something the faster your skill goes up. For example if you use a weapon with 6 damage your skill will go up faster than it would using a weapon with 12 damage. This is because you have to swing the weapon twoic as much for the same exp. For this reason you want to use low damage fast weapons until your late teens. The lanseax (6/23) the silvery war axe (6/22) are good weapons. This class of weapons can be had for 5pp to 10pp in the bazaar. Using 6/22 weapons you should have two weapons skills lvl maxed, and perhaps some skill in a two handed weapon by the time you ding 13. At lvl 13, you can use two weapons, lvling has slowed down a bit you natruly desire a better raito weapon. A very afforidable choice is the Crystal Fiber (8/26) about 15pp or so in the bazaar. Since you still have a number of skill to work on and are lvling relativly fast you want to stick to the low damage weapons with delays in the 20's.
Once you reach lvl 20 the gloves come off, all the damage caps are gone,and it takes considerable more kills to lvl. At lvl 20 a Wurmy is almost impossible to beat with common weapons. Damage out put is the major factor in deciding who holds agro. So if you want to be king of the hill get the wurmy (25/40). About 2000pp.
If you want to give the king a run for his money for considable less plat, get a Sarnak Warhammer (30/40) or a Centi Warspear (20/30) You can pick the hammer up for about 50pp and the spear will cost you 100 or so. Both these weapons are useable post lvl 50 when you are not MA
The down side of the Wurmy is, it is primary only, and it is relativly expensive.
You could instead invest in a Lamy (9/19), for about the same money. It is proable that during the lvls you use a lamy in your main hand it will never out argo the wurmy. However you can move it to your off hand when you get a better primary weapon.
Other good weapons to get near or about lvl 20 (for those with out unlimited supplies of plat)are:
BALS (10/29) about 50pp or the ice claw (11/29) as cheep as 15plat, do to the fact that it is primary only. These weapons work very nicely for those warrior who prefer to spend their money upgrading armor before getting into the more expensive swords. Or who desire to upgrade a numbe of weapons types
If you have a bit more plat burning a hole in your pouch you can get the Sarnak Skull Splitter (12/26) 200plat, or the Centi short sword (12/25) for 300 plat. These weapons have about the same raito as the lam and thus will hold agro as well as the Lam until the primary hand bonus starts to play a major role (mid 30's). And will always be just as good of off hand weapons as the lamy
As to the Wurmy/Lamy debate, I come down on the side of the Wurmy. At high lvl's the fast weapons draw more agro simply because they out damage the slower better ratio weapons.
Every thing I've seen suggest that damage is the major factor in deciding who holds agro. The number of touches being a minor factor. I've done dps calculations, I've played around with damage calculating programs. I've used the Wurmy in number of groups vs lamy toteing warriors and had agro contest. Every thing I've seen suggest that the lamy will not out damage the wurmy until somewhere above lvl 50. Different programs and formulas give diffrent results. And the truth of the matter is both lamy and the Wurmy are now pre lvl 50 weapons.
I have never been of the openion that damage delt by the warrior is insignigent to the success of the group, however how much damage the war can take and how hard it is for him to get hit are much more important. What determains the above is the lvl of the war, the ac of the war and the hpt of the war. Therefore it is possible that you will find it necessary to reduce agro from time to time so a higher lvl, better armored etc war can hold agro.
If you want to be a Monster of Melee if you have a burning desire to be the one the mob is beating on either the Wurmy or the Lamy can give you a shot. Odds are that after lvl 40 the off hand weapon or other factors (like str) will be the deciding factor.
In the end what sword (or weapon) is best for you is a function of a number of things, your lvl, your amount of disposable cash, And how near you are to lvl max in your skill.
Level come into play in a number of ways: There are damage caps per lvl 10 and pre lvl 20. There is the primary hand damage bonus, and now recomended lvl of use.
As a war we can use 5 diffrent types of weapons and, we should make a resonable effort to lvl max all of these skills. And as you know in EQ the more you do something the faster your skill goes up. For example if you use a weapon with 6 damage your skill will go up faster than it would using a weapon with 12 damage. This is because you have to swing the weapon twoic as much for the same exp. For this reason you want to use low damage fast weapons until your late teens. The lanseax (6/23) the silvery war axe (6/22) are good weapons. This class of weapons can be had for 5pp to 10pp in the bazaar. Using 6/22 weapons you should have two weapons skills lvl maxed, and perhaps some skill in a two handed weapon by the time you ding 13. At lvl 13, you can use two weapons, lvling has slowed down a bit you natruly desire a better raito weapon. A very afforidable choice is the Crystal Fiber (8/26) about 15pp or so in the bazaar. Since you still have a number of skill to work on and are lvling relativly fast you want to stick to the low damage weapons with delays in the 20's.
Once you reach lvl 20 the gloves come off, all the damage caps are gone,and it takes considerable more kills to lvl. At lvl 20 a Wurmy is almost impossible to beat with common weapons. Damage out put is the major factor in deciding who holds agro. So if you want to be king of the hill get the wurmy (25/40). About 2000pp.
If you want to give the king a run for his money for considable less plat, get a Sarnak Warhammer (30/40) or a Centi Warspear (20/30) You can pick the hammer up for about 50pp and the spear will cost you 100 or so. Both these weapons are useable post lvl 50 when you are not MA
The down side of the Wurmy is, it is primary only, and it is relativly expensive.
You could instead invest in a Lamy (9/19), for about the same money. It is proable that during the lvls you use a lamy in your main hand it will never out argo the wurmy. However you can move it to your off hand when you get a better primary weapon.
Other good weapons to get near or about lvl 20 (for those with out unlimited supplies of plat)are:
BALS (10/29) about 50pp or the ice claw (11/29) as cheep as 15plat, do to the fact that it is primary only. These weapons work very nicely for those warrior who prefer to spend their money upgrading armor before getting into the more expensive swords. Or who desire to upgrade a numbe of weapons types
If you have a bit more plat burning a hole in your pouch you can get the Sarnak Skull Splitter (12/26) 200plat, or the Centi short sword (12/25) for 300 plat. These weapons have about the same raito as the lam and thus will hold agro as well as the Lam until the primary hand bonus starts to play a major role (mid 30's). And will always be just as good of off hand weapons as the lamy
As to the Wurmy/Lamy debate, I come down on the side of the Wurmy. At high lvl's the fast weapons draw more agro simply because they out damage the slower better ratio weapons.
Every thing I've seen suggest that damage is the major factor in deciding who holds agro. The number of touches being a minor factor. I've done dps calculations, I've played around with damage calculating programs. I've used the Wurmy in number of groups vs lamy toteing warriors and had agro contest. Every thing I've seen suggest that the lamy will not out damage the wurmy until somewhere above lvl 50. Different programs and formulas give diffrent results. And the truth of the matter is both lamy and the Wurmy are now pre lvl 50 weapons.
I have never been of the openion that damage delt by the warrior is insignigent to the success of the group, however how much damage the war can take and how hard it is for him to get hit are much more important. What determains the above is the lvl of the war, the ac of the war and the hpt of the war. Therefore it is possible that you will find it necessary to reduce agro from time to time so a higher lvl, better armored etc war can hold agro.
If you want to be a Monster of Melee if you have a burning desire to be the one the mob is beating on either the Wurmy or the Lamy can give you a shot. Odds are that after lvl 40 the off hand weapon or other factors (like str) will be the deciding factor.
15 posts
Okay, Just doing this for Rangers so I apologize to all the other classes. Okay, tried several weapon combos with the Wurmy, Centi LS, Lammy, and Centi SS, all are good weapons. Over all I've been most impressed with the Lammy/Wurmy combo. Lammy is fast, wurmy is slow and hits hard, the Centi LS/Wurmy is a nice combo too. The Centi LS/Lammy combo just killed me in groups cause of the extra aggro. So for all you rangers out there (I'm Lvl 44) Wurmy/Lammy combo impresses this ranger. I dont' have any haste items yet, so keep that in mind. But if your a mid level ranger looking for some good weapons wurmy/lammy gets my approval, low aggro in groups and fast enough to solo.
Catch ya in Norrath
Catch ya in Norrath
8 posts
Here are some calculations, to help drive the debate of which is the better weapon.
Bottom line = Wurmslayer at level <50 or in off hand
Lamentation at level >50 in main hand
Here are some sample calculations.
Assumptions I used:
Assume a 1hs damage bonus of 9. (low 50s char)
20% of slashes will be missed.
Haste item 22% (Silver Chitin Hand Wraps)
*Group situations: Chanter 64% haste.
Lammy has a 9/19 base, 18/19 adj with bonus, with 22% haste ratio is 18/15.57. Slashes/min = 38.5. Misses 20% = 6 for 32.12 hits/min. Hits/min 32.12 * Damage 18 = 585.72 DPM.
Wurmy has 25/40 base, 34/40 adj with bonus, with 22% haste ratio is 34/32.79. Slashes/min = 18.5. Misses 20% = 3 for 15.25 Hits/min. Hits/min 15.25 * Damage 34 = 518.5 DPM.
Lammy 586 DPM
Wurmy 518 DPM
Group situations:
Add chanter haste 64% (distributed), using above formula, and the results are:
Lammy 900 damage/min
Wurmy 850 damage/min
Note that at lower levels, the damage bonus for 1hs weapons is much less. In those situations, the Wurmy fares MUCH better, and is the mathematically better weapon until the damage bonus = 6 for 1hs. (about level 50ish)
Same formula but with Damage bonus = 0
Lammy has a 9/19 base, with 22% haste ratio is 9/15.57. Slashes/min = 38.5. Misses 20% = 6 for 32.12 hits/min. Hits/min 32.12 * Damage 9 = 289 DPM.
Wurmy has 25/40 base, with 22% haste ratio is 25/32.79. Slashes/min = 18.5. Misses 20% = 3 for 15.25 Hits/min. Hits/min 15.25 * Damage 25 = 381 DPM.
Wurmslayer 381 DPM
Lamentation 289 DPM
So you can see, until you get to high levels, Wurmslayer may be the mathematically better weapon, but at higher levels, the Lammy appears to surpass the Wurmy at about level 50.
Another consideration is that in the off-hand for a duel wielding character, damage bonuses do NOT apply. So one could argue that the Wurmy would ALWAYS be the better weapon in the off-hand.
I think that they are both great weapons, and it is a matter of choice and preference. I happen to like the quick wood-elf rangerish speed, and thus I chose the Defiance (same stats as Lammy but with AC10). Some lumbering barbarian types would likely prefer the big blast effect of a Wurmy that does damage in the 100s.
Hope this helps. Incidentally, I am thinking about changing my off-hand weapon to the Wurmy, as I've proven that it is mathematically better than the Jagged Blade of Mourning in the off-hand.
This is my 2c. Pick your poison and have fun!
Edited, Fri Oct 4 18:01:07 2002
Bottom line = Wurmslayer at level <50 or in off hand
Lamentation at level >50 in main hand
Here are some sample calculations.
Assumptions I used:
Assume a 1hs damage bonus of 9. (low 50s char)
20% of slashes will be missed.
Haste item 22% (Silver Chitin Hand Wraps)
*Group situations: Chanter 64% haste.
Lammy has a 9/19 base, 18/19 adj with bonus, with 22% haste ratio is 18/15.57. Slashes/min = 38.5. Misses 20% = 6 for 32.12 hits/min. Hits/min 32.12 * Damage 18 = 585.72 DPM.
Wurmy has 25/40 base, 34/40 adj with bonus, with 22% haste ratio is 34/32.79. Slashes/min = 18.5. Misses 20% = 3 for 15.25 Hits/min. Hits/min 15.25 * Damage 34 = 518.5 DPM.
Lammy 586 DPM
Wurmy 518 DPM
Group situations:
Add chanter haste 64% (distributed), using above formula, and the results are:
Lammy 900 damage/min
Wurmy 850 damage/min
Note that at lower levels, the damage bonus for 1hs weapons is much less. In those situations, the Wurmy fares MUCH better, and is the mathematically better weapon until the damage bonus = 6 for 1hs. (about level 50ish)
Same formula but with Damage bonus = 0
Lammy has a 9/19 base, with 22% haste ratio is 9/15.57. Slashes/min = 38.5. Misses 20% = 6 for 32.12 hits/min. Hits/min 32.12 * Damage 9 = 289 DPM.
Wurmy has 25/40 base, with 22% haste ratio is 25/32.79. Slashes/min = 18.5. Misses 20% = 3 for 15.25 Hits/min. Hits/min 15.25 * Damage 25 = 381 DPM.
Wurmslayer 381 DPM
Lamentation 289 DPM
So you can see, until you get to high levels, Wurmslayer may be the mathematically better weapon, but at higher levels, the Lammy appears to surpass the Wurmy at about level 50.
Another consideration is that in the off-hand for a duel wielding character, damage bonuses do NOT apply. So one could argue that the Wurmy would ALWAYS be the better weapon in the off-hand.
I think that they are both great weapons, and it is a matter of choice and preference. I happen to like the quick wood-elf rangerish speed, and thus I chose the Defiance (same stats as Lammy but with AC10). Some lumbering barbarian types would likely prefer the big blast effect of a Wurmy that does damage in the 100s.
Hope this helps. Incidentally, I am thinking about changing my off-hand weapon to the Wurmy, as I've proven that it is mathematically better than the Jagged Blade of Mourning in the off-hand.
This is my 2c. Pick your poison and have fun!
Edited, Fri Oct 4 18:01:07 2002
40 posts
lol
if you can find out dps with such mere math
no one would argue about it
and dps is different when fight different mobs even if they are dark blue
another factor would be strenght which some guy already mentioned
second, 6 dmg bonus in the 50's is hilarious!
do you even have a char over 39? you get like 5 or 6 dmg bonus at 38 or something like that
also wurm has inconsistant dmg...yah it can hit for 100+ but think about this dude..if it DOESN'T hit for 100dmg but 20 or such...you are screwed for 1 combat round
if a lammy hit for 10 or such....it can be recovered bcuz with such low delay(lammy can get 2 combat round while wurm gets 1)
so do the math...
PS if you can even use wurm in offhand it would cost about..um...lets see...comparing to LSoEE....10k? so JBoM is the better choice
if you can find out dps with such mere math
no one would argue about it
and dps is different when fight different mobs even if they are dark blue
another factor would be strenght which some guy already mentioned
second, 6 dmg bonus in the 50's is hilarious!
do you even have a char over 39? you get like 5 or 6 dmg bonus at 38 or something like that
also wurm has inconsistant dmg...yah it can hit for 100+ but think about this dude..if it DOESN'T hit for 100dmg but 20 or such...you are screwed for 1 combat round
if a lammy hit for 10 or such....it can be recovered bcuz with such low delay(lammy can get 2 combat round while wurm gets 1)
so do the math...
PS if you can even use wurm in offhand it would cost about..um...lets see...comparing to LSoEE....10k? so JBoM is the better choice
Great attempt at comparing these. Two problems, however:
1) wurmslayer is primary only. If it was secondary equippable, it would be worth a lot more.
2) Your calculations only work for a melee with 80 or lower strength. If you have not noticed, for strength above 80, you get additional damage bonus on your weapon. Since my warrior has NEVER been below 150 strength, since lvl 20, and usually fights around the 190-200 str level, with buffs, you calculations are meaningless.
Prior to the damage bonus, with 180-200 strength, I would max hit (non-crit) for about 32hp damage. That is 13 pts above the max damage using your calculations. Since the lammy swings twice for every one swing of the wurmy, you'd get 26 pts maximum of str damage (assumes successful double attack), where you would get 52 pts worth off the lammy.
The str damage bonus seems to be about 1pt of additional damage for each 10 pts of strength over 80. So an Ogre warrior, with maxxed str of 255 could get a str bonus of 17 or 18 pts per hit. In that case, Lammy GREATLY outdamages wurmy, even before the level based damage bonus kicks in. AFTER the damage bonus, there is'nt even any contest. Now, if you are a ranger, and focused on caster gear, rather than str, MAYBE wurmy will do more damage, but thats about the only situation. However, for the ranger, Wurmy is nice for aggro management, since you generate almost no taunt with wurmslayer.
1) wurmslayer is primary only. If it was secondary equippable, it would be worth a lot more.
2) Your calculations only work for a melee with 80 or lower strength. If you have not noticed, for strength above 80, you get additional damage bonus on your weapon. Since my warrior has NEVER been below 150 strength, since lvl 20, and usually fights around the 190-200 str level, with buffs, you calculations are meaningless.
Prior to the damage bonus, with 180-200 strength, I would max hit (non-crit) for about 32hp damage. That is 13 pts above the max damage using your calculations. Since the lammy swings twice for every one swing of the wurmy, you'd get 26 pts maximum of str damage (assumes successful double attack), where you would get 52 pts worth off the lammy.
The str damage bonus seems to be about 1pt of additional damage for each 10 pts of strength over 80. So an Ogre warrior, with maxxed str of 255 could get a str bonus of 17 or 18 pts per hit. In that case, Lammy GREATLY outdamages wurmy, even before the level based damage bonus kicks in. AFTER the damage bonus, there is'nt even any contest. Now, if you are a ranger, and focused on caster gear, rather than str, MAYBE wurmy will do more damage, but thats about the only situation. However, for the ranger, Wurmy is nice for aggro management, since you generate almost no taunt with wurmslayer.
46 posts
I'm impressed with the calculations, can you figure all that out for an 18/26 1HS with SCHW at level 48?
Khaann Dae'Lach
48'th trial Tier'Dal Shadow Knight
Tholuxe Paells
Khaann Dae'Lach
48'th trial Tier'Dal Shadow Knight
Tholuxe Paells
43 posts
Right now, I am thinking about getting a lammy, although i still need to save up since i only got 500pp. RIght now, I am using a Centi SS in prin=mary and a Jagged Long Sword in secondary. I don't want to get this till im absolutly certain if I should... are there and other good fast weapons for about the same price you can recommend? Im a Dark Elf warrior lvl 28 and i have 177str, 182 with the Centi SS. which i think so good considering im a darkelf and my base str is 95. I was also thinking about a Light Velium Warsword i think it was, its 10/18...seems pretty good, im just not getting enough aggro with the centi. So if you have any suggestions whether i should get this? or something else. or whatever, just say so...
12 posts
If you just want a faster weapon, there is a efreeti standar, 3/10 1hb or a moss covered twig, 3/10 1hb. A efreeti goes for about the same as lammy becasue if weighs 10 and a moss twig weighs like 1.5
Well, a few things.
First, lammy is very good for aggro. I think the velium sword you are referring to is 10/22. If it is actually 10/18. that would be better.
Second, if at lvl 28, you're not keeping aggro with a centi ss/ Jagged ls combo, something is wrong. Either your groupmates are serious twinks (it happens) or you're not using the taunt button. Also, it helps if you stand as close to the MOB as possible, when fighting it, and the other group members stay at max melee range.
Anyhow, a lammy would create more taunt. then you might want to look for a fast weapon with a proc. Procs create huge taunt.
First, lammy is very good for aggro. I think the velium sword you are referring to is 10/22. If it is actually 10/18. that would be better.
Second, if at lvl 28, you're not keeping aggro with a centi ss/ Jagged ls combo, something is wrong. Either your groupmates are serious twinks (it happens) or you're not using the taunt button. Also, it helps if you stand as close to the MOB as possible, when fighting it, and the other group members stay at max melee range.
Anyhow, a lammy would create more taunt. then you might want to look for a fast weapon with a proc. Procs create huge taunt.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 22 2002 at 12:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you have one of these or a centi longsword on Solusek ro for sale, e-mail me at pokethepenguin@juno.com
7 posts
anyone selling this on cazic-thule server for 1.2k or less?
12 posts
My RL friend on cazic-thule said they go for 2-2.5k. I dont know just a tip
10 posts
Ok. I have one question!
Which is better? 2 Lamentations or 2 Centi Longsword? or both? or neither? its for a warrior
What are some good swords in the range of 2k-3k?
Edited, Mon Sep 9 23:04:03 2002
Which is better? 2 Lamentations or 2 Centi Longsword? or both? or neither? its for a warrior
What are some good swords in the range of 2k-3k?
Edited, Mon Sep 9 23:04:03 2002
i would have to say a Lamentation Primary and a Centi LS secondary. the varying delay's will help, one weapon doing damage while the other one doesnt. thats what i would do, but to answer your original question of using which 2 it depends, for mad aggro control use 2 Lamentations, for damage with less aggro control use 2 Centi LS. hope this helps you
Afmo 37 Warrior
Jeravin 16 Ranger
Afmo 37 Warrior
Jeravin 16 Ranger
6 posts
no lammy is best in off hand, lower dly go there, and higher dly in primary trust me lammy secondary centi primary trust me on this
You would want to put a lower delay weapon in your main hand to better utilize the damage bonus on it. the higher damage weapon is better used in offhand (no damage bonus on off hand). therefore, lammy in primary and centi ls in offhand.
Explain this please. I thought you would want faster in primary, seems as if you put faster in secondary you will be slowing it down. I made this observation on a young warrior i made, while build skills i was rotating weapons 1 handed weapons, all skills were within 10 pts of each other. With a faster weapon in off hand it still hit way slower than primary. If there is a good reason you would do this please let me know.
Scholar
18 posts
Primary and secondary are on two independent timers. Therefore the delay of the primary has no effect on the secondary timing.
Never said anything about primary effecting the secondary. Read carefully it is a comparison of the 2. let me explain in a different way, you take 2 identical weapons put 1 in primary slot and 1 in secondary. what i noticed was that the secondary won't swing as often as the primmary even tho the delay is the same.
2 posts
The reason is quite simple.
When you go to swing your offhand it rolls for a chance at Duel Wield ( DW=(lvl+skill)/500 ) to see if in fact u will swing then u get a chance for a double attack if u passed the duel wield check. Your primary will swing everytime. This is why that some feel it best to have a higher dmg weapon in secondary in addition to the no dmg-bonus on secondary rule.
Hope this helps :)
Torunk Dewnar
53rd season warrior of The Ravens Lot
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=562832
When you go to swing your offhand it rolls for a chance at Duel Wield ( DW=(lvl+skill)/500 ) to see if in fact u will swing then u get a chance for a double attack if u passed the duel wield check. Your primary will swing everytime. This is why that some feel it best to have a higher dmg weapon in secondary in addition to the no dmg-bonus on secondary rule.
Hope this helps :)
Torunk Dewnar
53rd season warrior of The Ravens Lot
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=562832
11 posts
ok i have a 31 warrior on drinal (barbarian)
i herd that if you have higher dmg you well do more dmg no matter what the dly but im using lammy and crystling short sword and i out dmg any other warrior my lvl i have ok str and agi only haste thing i have is FBSS but my wepions dmg and dly are 9/19 and 12/24 my str is 206 agi 142 sta 137 and dex 90 is this ok for my lvl ? if you need more on my char look up xrolyon
31 warrior drinal
Edited, Mon Sep 2 20:13:53 2002
i herd that if you have higher dmg you well do more dmg no matter what the dly but im using lammy and crystling short sword and i out dmg any other warrior my lvl i have ok str and agi only haste thing i have is FBSS but my wepions dmg and dly are 9/19 and 12/24 my str is 206 agi 142 sta 137 and dex 90 is this ok for my lvl ? if you need more on my char look up xrolyon
31 warrior drinal
Edited, Mon Sep 2 20:13:53 2002
30 posts
Ok most people are missing the point here. The damage calculations look nice on paper, but let's look at the actual game. How many times would you swing with a Lammy in 1 minute not hasted, and how many times with a Wurmslayer. The Lammy's Delay is 19 that is measure in 10th of a second. You will swing the Lammy 31.6 times in 1 minute and the Wurmy 15. Now let's figure in misses if you miss 6 times with each then you hit 24 times with the Lammy and 9 with the Wurmy. now take the possible damage. Using base damages only 216 with the Lammy and 225 with the Wurmy. Ok so with the wurmy you get 9 more damage in 1 minute. Then you figure in haste like so. New (hasted) Delay = (delay/1+haste percentage) so if you have an FBSS which is 21% haste your equation would look like so with a Lamentation. 19/1.21= 15.7 (rounded up to 16). So, really the answer to your question and to clear up the confusion is this. It is really up to you as to what you want to use. Personally I say Lammy in primary and Centi in off hand. This is a much better combination. A higher damage is nice but the delay hurts in the long run. Figure in misses to hits and if you can swing faster and hit a little more often with a little less damage you will in turn over time deal much more damage. Also another thing that many don't figure in is weight. Also, with that higher delay, how many more times are you getting hit and taking more damage??? I hope I didn't confuse you any more. I will also show you how to figure swings per minute. SPM= 60 /(Delay/10) so plug in the numbers from Lamentation SPM= 60/(19/10) so 60/1.9 = 31.6. Sorry to carry on so much and I will probably be flamed and ranted, but I don't care. Some may disagree with what I said, but all in all it falls into 3 categories 1. What you want to use. 2. What fits best in the situation. 3. What works best to your style of fighting. I will say that your configuration will take you well in to your 50's with what you have now. Good luck
Edited, Wed Sep 25 16:53:26 2002
Edited, Wed Sep 25 16:53:26 2002
46 posts
Why would you miss 6/15 swings with the wurmy and 6/31.6 with the lammy? Shouldn't you have about an equal hit/miss percentage with either?
if the weapon has a higher damage, you will do more damage -=per swing=-. Grab a calculator and divide damage by delay for 2 weapons, the higher result is ther better weapon overall :)
#REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 24 2002 at 11:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i use lammy in main and crystling short sword in sec hand and i have a fbss, trea weave, black ice leggings, black ice arms, some choker that gives 7agi 7 dex, helm of rile (str and agi) crusty boots and gloves, 2 65hp 6 ac rings, orc fang errings, sine thing in rang that gives 5str
7 posts
Well I bought a Lamentation for 1250 plat yesterday in the bazaar very cheap for my server < Tholuxe Paells > Most people want 2500-3500 for these.I think these are < one > of the best weps for a warrior to hold taunt that are not lore or no drop in my opinoin. But I have seen better combo's but usally one of them lore but as far as ranger im concerend if they want to draw aggro for the MT well if they do it alot let them die mabey then they will try some other combo's or stradgies to not pull aggro.. its very frustraiting to be in KC when an idiot ranger pulls aggro starts screaming and runs for the zone aggroing so many mobs thus geting us killed... if these weak basterds that call themselfs part tank can't do just that.. then Id rather see them sit behind and cast hell for all I care we could do with out them and bards. They have the spells hp ac and wep choices to tank for a minute or so but when they go off crying geting us killed and many more its just pathitic..
hehe also...my ranger also wielded a lammy with a velium swiftblade in offhand =) was great for fear kiting lol. I hit SOOO fast with 40% haste
erm...rangers aint weak! of course our HP aint as high nor is AC! but i have a 48 ranger. Weilding Defiance and Long sword of ethereal energy. With all my buffs on i can WAAYY outdamage a warrior. Especially if theyre using lammy's! of course. rangers shouldnt be ther eto tank as much but we still CAN tank. I have seen myself MT in KC at lvl 47. with a good grp. now i gonna go back on and get my lvl 49 (1 blue to go) then i get wolf form ) c yaz
woof woof
woof woof
8 posts
LMFAO, you ******* moron, ( sorry for language but I am pissed at this moron ) A WARRIOR'S DUTY IS TO HOLD AGGRO, NOT TO DO DAMAGE. I SEE MORONS LIKE YOU BRAGGING ABOUT HOW THEY "OUTDAMAGE" A WARRIOR. IS THAT SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF, WHEN A WARRIOR IS USING LOW DELAY WEPS TO KEEP THE MOB ON HIM AND OFF OF YOUR SORRY ***. And about outdamaging a warrior? Uh... a guildie witnessed a warrior crit for 1370, sure he was using disciplines and had a load of AA points, but that is damage. I want to see your sorry *** do that kind of damage.
"Just ridding Norrath of idiots like you."
Gukbob Thunderfart
Officer of Fist and Flame
Proud Warrior of Morell Thule
"Just ridding Norrath of idiots like you."
Gukbob Thunderfart
Officer of Fist and Flame
Proud Warrior of Morell Thule
4 posts
A ranger pulling aggro is about as common as a warrior who can't spell. Your post just proves the point.
30 posts
Anyone can play a class poorly.. Judging a class poorly based on once example is crap and I hope the majority of people know that.. Fact is you grouped with a Ranger who sucked and I assume you must also have grouped with a number of Bards who sucked also..
As far as reevaluating the classes goes, no matter what you do, if your Ranger is a twinked out and your Warrior is not it will be difficult for the Warrior to maintain aggro.
-Thank You
[54 Vicar] Sameniel (High Elf) <Orb of Silence>
[53 Minstrel] Samini (Wood Elf) <Orb of Silence>
[44 Warrior] Olauf (Troll) <Orb of Silence>
[34 Necromancer] Pendrakke (Gnome) <Orb of Silence>
~ ~ ~ Tholuxe Paells ~ ~ ~
Edited, Fri Sep 6 12:06:06 2002
As far as reevaluating the classes goes, no matter what you do, if your Ranger is a twinked out and your Warrior is not it will be difficult for the Warrior to maintain aggro.
-Thank You
[54 Vicar] Sameniel (High Elf) <Orb of Silence>
[53 Minstrel] Samini (Wood Elf) <Orb of Silence>
[44 Warrior] Olauf (Troll) <Orb of Silence>
[34 Necromancer] Pendrakke (Gnome) <Orb of Silence>
~ ~ ~ Tholuxe Paells ~ ~ ~
Edited, Fri Sep 6 12:06:06 2002
Rangers do out taunt warriors twinked or not. At lower lvls warriors got it, probably post 30 is when they start to lose it.
16 posts
Being a level 50 Ranger, I would have to agree with you ... some. Anyone that draws agro then takes off running around should die. I have known way too many casters that do exactly that. I came here looking at the Lammy, but I think you are correct. It would be great for those times that I am soloing or having to be MT. But to use it with a Warrior or other MT class around would be a mistake. I still want one of these, but it can wait. Now all of you can flame and rant on me about how we can tank too. (even though I never said we counldn't.)
Enjoy the game!
Enjoy the game!
i agree with you as well,
i play both a ranger and a warrior, warrior being my main and the ranger my alt.
rangers are a class designed to deal damage, not to take it. rangers use Lammy to solo or MT but other than that, Lammy+ranger=death.
although i'd feel pretty useless as a main tank if my 36 warrior dual wielding a lammy and sword of skyfire got aggro taken from a ranger.
if a warrior cant take aggro back from a ranger however, it might be time to reevaluate classes =)
thats my thoughts on the subject
Afmo 36 warrior
jeravin 16 ranger
i play both a ranger and a warrior, warrior being my main and the ranger my alt.
rangers are a class designed to deal damage, not to take it. rangers use Lammy to solo or MT but other than that, Lammy+ranger=death.
although i'd feel pretty useless as a main tank if my 36 warrior dual wielding a lammy and sword of skyfire got aggro taken from a ranger.
if a warrior cant take aggro back from a ranger however, it might be time to reevaluate classes =)
thats my thoughts on the subject
Afmo 36 warrior
jeravin 16 ranger
40 posts
i think you should play rangers more
i am lvl 49 ranger and i used 2 lammys
i rarely die...do you no why?
because there is a class called cleric which heals you
i am lvl 49 ranger and i used 2 lammys
i rarely die...do you no why?
because there is a class called cleric which heals you
price on this bad boy is goin down, saw one in bazaar today for 1500 and got mine today for 947pp and a stone bladed axe =) im happy with it
7 posts
I was just wondering, do u think two lammys is a combo, im not sure, i have a 53 warrior, non twink i have to work for everything i have, so i was thinking 2 lammys might be nice. anyone else have a good idea for a 53 warrior? let me know. im also on a price budget so if u can tell me another set of weapons for about the same price that would work better for me let me know.
thanks all
winamtin skullcrusher
53 Gnome warrior agnostic (old world order) on Fennin ro server
thanks all
winamtin skullcrusher
53 Gnome warrior agnostic (old world order) on Fennin ro server
Scholar
49 posts
I've tried dual wielding two different weapon types ever since it was possible. It has helped me to keep up my weapon skills on more than one weapon type for awhile now.
Usually I dual wield a piercer and a 1HS, but am trying to work a 1HB into the mix now at 40+.
Elessarion
The Rathe
Usually I dual wield a piercer and a 1HS, but am trying to work a 1HB into the mix now at 40+.
Elessarion
The Rathe
Lammy primary, Centi LS secondary will create more damage than 2 lammies, and will not noticably reduce your taunt. But two lammies is pretty good also.
8 posts
Currently on my 42 ranger im going through a weapons phase (trying things and seeing what works), i tried the wurmmy/lammy, ugh too slow, wurmmy/centi even slower, lammy/centi SS(notLS) quite nice, workable if sta isnt over 100 (mines 115 so im alright) lammy/centiLS, nice, combo of fast hits and dmg, lammy/lammy nice also, very fast dmg and the whole agro thing is a myth.
Ok way i see it, im on brell which is a fairly old server, if im doing an exp group then im likely to be in DL or SolB at the moment, in those places you get alot of wars. If im DW lammy's and I dont want agro all i do is not taunt, simple as that, a war worth his salt will keep agro easy. If on the otherside the war is gettin close to that 2 hp bub mark and the healer is oom or whatever and I want agro, simple i taunt or just hit tangeling weeds/snare and hey presto I have agro, now at 42 i have about 850ac and about 1.4k hp, I can take a fair beating, nothing war standard but when it comes to it I have a slight option open.
Now looking at the future, later on i wont have the beating option open however if im on a big raid, velious, planes etc then im not gonna be running into the fight from the start anyway, ill be letting the MA get atleast 3-4 taunts off and god knows how many bashes, yet again a war worth his salt is gonna keep the agro np, if not all I do is jolt and hey presto im below the dam shaman on the hate list.
All this bs about taking agro just shows to me that people dont pick groups well. Wurmmy may be better at my level but i personally hate them. Im currently doing the lammy/lammy combo and having no problems with groups.
May the flaming commence
Morbicus Vincento-42 Woodelf Ranger
-Brell Serilis
Edited, Fri Jul 26 06:03:19 2002
Ok way i see it, im on brell which is a fairly old server, if im doing an exp group then im likely to be in DL or SolB at the moment, in those places you get alot of wars. If im DW lammy's and I dont want agro all i do is not taunt, simple as that, a war worth his salt will keep agro easy. If on the otherside the war is gettin close to that 2 hp bub mark and the healer is oom or whatever and I want agro, simple i taunt or just hit tangeling weeds/snare and hey presto I have agro, now at 42 i have about 850ac and about 1.4k hp, I can take a fair beating, nothing war standard but when it comes to it I have a slight option open.
Now looking at the future, later on i wont have the beating option open however if im on a big raid, velious, planes etc then im not gonna be running into the fight from the start anyway, ill be letting the MA get atleast 3-4 taunts off and god knows how many bashes, yet again a war worth his salt is gonna keep the agro np, if not all I do is jolt and hey presto im below the dam shaman on the hate list.
All this bs about taking agro just shows to me that people dont pick groups well. Wurmmy may be better at my level but i personally hate them. Im currently doing the lammy/lammy combo and having no problems with groups.
May the flaming commence
Morbicus Vincento-42 Woodelf Ranger
-Brell Serilis
Edited, Fri Jul 26 06:03:19 2002
personally, i think rangers + Lamentation = death
rangers are designed to deal damage, not take it, and the low delay of this thing will give you mad aggro. unless you like dying, i would discourage rangers using lamentation
rangers are designed to deal damage, not take it, and the low delay of this thing will give you mad aggro. unless you like dying, i would discourage rangers using lamentation
16 posts
Daederlus makes some good points also though. It isn't only his job to keep Argo on the Warrior. MT. Waiting to enter combat is probably the most over-looked tatic alot of players fail to use. It may work here. Best thing to remember, if you use these and get too much argo, then "for-petes-sake" change your combo. If Daederlus is good enough to use a "Mad Combo" like this, then you rock my friend. But I would be willing to bet. If he got too much argo with it he would be smart enough to change. It really is the player, not the class.
Enjoy the game!
Enjoy the game!
15 posts
Well I must admit I'm kinda new to this game and I only picked it up in March of 2002, Now I'm a 31 Wood Elf ranger and getting to the point in eq that I've read all these posts about. Currently I use a Centi LS, SS combo for my ranger. I don't have any haste items but I hope to camp the frenzied ghoul in a couple of levels (about nine) with my guild group in order to get a FBSS. Now should I stick with my current weapons set up or should I buy a Lammy? I've had some people say wait tell your higer level and money is easier to come by before you by your lammy, and I've heard othere people say the lammy is great get one as soon as possible. I also plan on doing the wurmslayer quest when I get around level 45, So what should I do? Scrimp and save for a lammy now, use a lammy centi LS, Centi LS Wurmy, or a lammy wurmy combo? I hope to have haste by then so all these combos would have haste. Tell me what ya think? or should I get all three and try em all to see what works best for me? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Tanlaen
Tanlaen
15 posts
First off I would like to say thank you for all your guys help, it was very appreciated. After looking at stats, and ratios, and taking all your advice into consideration I ended up selling off my Centi LS, buying a Wurmy, and pairing it with my Centi SS. Xaanru you are right, this is a great combo and alot cheaper. I find I kill mobs faster when I solo, and aggro isn't a problem for me in groups. The lammy will have to wait for now, heh, maybe someday I'll be high enough to kill the mob it drops off of, but untill then it's a wurmy/Centi SS for me.
Tan
Tan
I wouldnt worry about getting a Wurmmy, their nice but you'll find that they are to slow even with haste. I would scrimp and save for the Lammy or if you dont want to draw aggro from the Main Tank go with slower High damage weapons but not to slow.
I disagree. A ranger is basically what a Wurmy is designed for. Since most rangers have less strength that a warrior, the bonus above the wepon damage they receive is less, hence the speed is less important and ratio is more important.
Also, since the ranger typically DOES NOT want aggro, the high delay of the wurmslayer is ideal. even with a haste item, and haste spell, you should not steal aggro from a decent main tank.
If it were me, and i were a ranger, I would choose the wurmslayer over lammy, or centi in primary. However, the centi LS makes a nice offhand to pair up with the wurmyslayer, and the +sta, helps with the drain these weapons cause.
Also, since the ranger typically DOES NOT want aggro, the high delay of the wurmslayer is ideal. even with a haste item, and haste spell, you should not steal aggro from a decent main tank.
If it were me, and i were a ranger, I would choose the wurmslayer over lammy, or centi in primary. However, the centi LS makes a nice offhand to pair up with the wurmyslayer, and the +sta, helps with the drain these weapons cause.
42 posts
well can't you use the lammy and the wurmmy it would just equial out to a pretty good wep in each hand a umm 17.5 dmg and umm20.9 ehh pretty good for each hand
You could use the wurmslayer in primary, and lammy in secondary, but why? A centi shortsword would outdamage the lammy in secondary (and create less taunt), and is only 400pp. a centi LS would be even better, and is 1.5kpp. Lammy is 2.5k -3k. Why use an expensive weapon in secondary, that produces less damage. The lammy is a primary slot weapon, meant to be used when you WANT to generate taunt. A ranger does not want to make it to the top of the hate list. A ranger with aggro, against a tough mob, gets chewed up almost as fast as a druid. The ranger's role is to do damage, without getting hit.
For doing that, the Wurmy, centi setup is far better than a lammy.
For a warrior, who wants taunt, Lammy is best of the three in primary.
For doing that, the Wurmy, centi setup is far better than a lammy.
For a warrior, who wants taunt, Lammy is best of the three in primary.
4 posts
I am a 51 ranger on Bertox server and i use lammy and centi LS (lammy in primary) im thinking of getting a second centi LS so that i have 2 just to draw away agro and give my lammy to my 13 alternate ogre warrior I used wurmy up to about level 32 or so and i quit with it and picked up a Sword of Skyfire and centi Short sword till 40's when i got my Lammy/Centi LS combo
4 posts
i think duel Centi LS or Lammy and Centi LS is good for a ranger up to their epics unless you get better
Edited, Mon Jul 22 11:21:37 2002
Edited, Mon Jul 22 11:21:37 2002
From what I understand and have personally seen, a quick hitter tends to taunt better than slow hitter of a similar ratio. If this is true, you would want a speedy weapon for maintaining taunt in groups where your role is to keep taunt while the casters blast away. However, if you want to solo or be in a group which isn't using magic as the primary source of damage, you will want the higher damage ratio.
Bear in mind that the speed of a weapon does not come into play during ripostes and double attacks. Therefore the slow heavy weapon riposte/double-attack is much more damaging than the quick light weapon riposte/double-attack. This is one reason 20+ paladins have better damage output with a two-hand slash than with a one-hander.
Bear in mind that the speed of a weapon does not come into play during ripostes and double attacks. Therefore the slow heavy weapon riposte/double-attack is much more damaging than the quick light weapon riposte/double-attack. This is one reason 20+ paladins have better damage output with a two-hand slash than with a one-hander.
12 posts
Actually, the speed of a weapon has no affect on how much of an increase you will get on double attack. Either you will double-attack for less damage at a faster delay, or you double-attack for more damage at a slower delay.
As for riposte, while it is true you will riposte an equal number of times during a given fight, whether you have a fast or slow weapon, riposte never counts towards a significant amount of damage output.
Bottom line is a 10/20 weapon will *always* do more damage than a 20/40 weapon because of strength and level bonus. The sole reason 20+ paladins have better damage output with 2hs is because, generally, 2-hand pally/sk weapons are better than 1-hand pally/sk weapons. If pallies and SKs could dual-wield, they would.
As for riposte, while it is true you will riposte an equal number of times during a given fight, whether you have a fast or slow weapon, riposte never counts towards a significant amount of damage output.
Bottom line is a 10/20 weapon will *always* do more damage than a 20/40 weapon because of strength and level bonus. The sole reason 20+ paladins have better damage output with 2hs is because, generally, 2-hand pally/sk weapons are better than 1-hand pally/sk weapons. If pallies and SKs could dual-wield, they would.
The only effect I know of, that weapon speed has on double attack, is in skilling up. A slow/high damage weapon, will have few, but high damage double attacks. A fast, low damage weapon, will have many, less damaging double attacks. Since there are more of them ,there is more chance to skill up. Over time, this could make a big difference in the character's skill level at double attack. This of course, favors the faster weapon, praticularly if you are one of the purists who wants to keep every weapon skill maxxed out each level.
Edited, Tue Jul 2 12:52:29 2002
Edited, Tue Jul 2 12:52:29 2002
i believe the point that the first post was making was that riposte is not effected by weapon delay; therefore, higher damage is all that matters for riposte. I don't know who does more damage, it depends on too many factors, but if one could riposte every hit, as with discs, a weighted axe would be better than almost anything else.
3 posts
i may be wrong but i think the speed of a weapon does increase the chance of a double attack or duel wielding sucessfuly. this is because since you hit more with a faster the weapon, therefor you have more chances to duel wield or double attack. this may not be true im not quite sure. just my little thiughts about stuff no one cares about ok im out
3 posts
ok im a 22 warrior and im a little confused. im curently useing 2 centi LS and im pretty fast for not having a haste item. i keep agro fine and am better then most warriors i meet my level. should i get a lammy for my primary and use it with the centi LS or use my centis and get a FBSS or somthing? i dont have enough cash to get both a lammy and haste item so i was wondering witch is bettre since i like the centis damage more. i only have 211 streanth right now but i could bring it up easily to 250 if that helps.
OrcMugger might not make any comments, but I will! :P
*cough*Twink!*cough*
Lol.
*cough*Twink!*cough*
Lol.
Geez. I won't make any twink comments,as I am just 31 and have a lammy and a glowing black sword (lammy given by my guild to be main tank in my level groups). But if you are 22 and have two Centis you should keep them. If you are able to get a FBSS or other good haste item at your level, more power to you. You are doing very good damage fairly rapidly. I have no doubt you can keep agro. Just keep your skills up and you will be doing far more in the future. Get the best armor you can afford and you will be a super tank. Again, keep the centi's and good luck to you.
8 posts
I am lv 23 warrior. I have a wurmslayer in my primary and, was wondering whether i should use a centi longsword in my secondary or a lamentation. Or should i use a combination of a centi LS and a Lamentation. Tell me what u think.
Depends. The wurmslayer is really more for a low strength assist melee. With high strength, the strength bonus makes lammy do more damage in primary. Also, as you level up, your level based bonuses will increase the lammy's damage even more. Think of it this way:
The base damage (Max hit with low strength, not the weapon rating) on a lammy is about 18 (rating*2), with no bonuses. It hits twice (a little more) in the time a wurmslayer hits. Base damage on wurmy is 50.
At this point the wurmy outdamages. However, at 250 strength, the max hit of either weapon is 18 higher than that. So the lammy could hit for 36, and the wurmy for 68. with 2 max hits, lammy would do 72 damage in a little less time than the wurmy does one hit for 68. When you hit lvl 28, you start getting damage bonuses added to the weapon, and the difference gets even bigger.
However, as a Warrior, damage is not your main concern, taunt is. Lammy will far outtaunt a wurmy, any day of the week. Only use wurmy if you are soloing, and have strength less than 230. And then, thats only until lvl 28. By lvl 51, lammy is better, even with 80 str.
Edited, Sun May 5 12:56:19 2002
The base damage (Max hit with low strength, not the weapon rating) on a lammy is about 18 (rating*2), with no bonuses. It hits twice (a little more) in the time a wurmslayer hits. Base damage on wurmy is 50.
At this point the wurmy outdamages. However, at 250 strength, the max hit of either weapon is 18 higher than that. So the lammy could hit for 36, and the wurmy for 68. with 2 max hits, lammy would do 72 damage in a little less time than the wurmy does one hit for 68. When you hit lvl 28, you start getting damage bonuses added to the weapon, and the difference gets even bigger.
However, as a Warrior, damage is not your main concern, taunt is. Lammy will far outtaunt a wurmy, any day of the week. Only use wurmy if you are soloing, and have strength less than 230. And then, thats only until lvl 28. By lvl 51, lammy is better, even with 80 str.
Edited, Sun May 5 12:56:19 2002
1 post
Lamentations are terrible in secondary slot is what I hear.
Scholar
16 posts
twink laf
2 posts
me 45 ogre war with wurmslayer and centi LS. Me have Fbss
me ogre friend is 47 with two lammy. he also have fbss
our ac and hp is about the same.
Me kill him everytime we duel
dats all i need to know
me ogre friend is 47 with two lammy. he also have fbss
our ac and hp is about the same.
Me kill him everytime we duel
dats all i need to know
2 posts
I think if your friend carry a centi LS in his secondary, he should kill you. Try it and let me know.
2 posts
We tried it. And wow. Much better.
From what I can tell from the duels. The Lammy and Centi LS is the best combo out of these weapons.
Soothsayer was correct =P
From what I can tell from the duels. The Lammy and Centi LS is the best combo out of these weapons.
Soothsayer was correct =P
3 posts
which slot did you put the lammy in? jsut curious
9 posts
Well, the only good ranger would have to be one that was ran over by an angered mob... I say we give them all a lammy for each hand!!! /chuckle
25 posts
%t resists soandso's spell...oh look a dead drood. What a pity :D
13 posts
PLZ PLZ do not use this is you are ranger! I am a 37 warrior but have also seen it on my druid (59) rangers who use lammys die. Simply, rangers cant deal with the aggro. When I see a ranger duel weilding lammys with a haste item, I won't let them into group unless we have warrior who can hold the aggro. BTW my warrior is using lammy, centi ls, and greater guard of haste
Well for one, I would never use the combo in a group. Jolting blades doesn't even help aggro management when you have perpetual attacking. But I'm a solo character about 90% of the time. I'm fortunate enough to have higher level alts to pass me down better than average equipment so that I may survive in these places. What i'm reffering to is soloing. Is there any obscure or even blatant weapon that could be better for soloing than the Lamentation/Centi LS/FBSS combo that i've got?
Valius Gladestalker
Ranger of Drinal
Valius Gladestalker
Ranger of Drinal
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