I have read all the posts here and agree with the idea that this weapon will actually help any class that has mana except bards.
For anyone who needs mana any amount of regen over normal is good and may make the difference, i cant count the times i have run when i had a mob at 2 or 3 percent when one more dot or nuke would have been the difference.
The only posts i dont necessarily agree with are the necro posts, keeping what i said already in mind, i must say necros kite, my style is aggro not fear because i can control the direction the mob is going much better that way. but i dont get much time to sit for mana regen.
on my 66 necro the mana regen this proc will give me is minimal at best. And contrary to what most believe, Necros not enchanters are the true masters of mana.
Most of the time i have to chain pull mobs to keep up with my lich, the only time recently that i have had a problem with mana was pulling two Loroks (frogs) in PoS at a time.
Oh yeah and when im twitching the chanter in our raids.
This has become an awesome weapon for my beastlord with the new bandoleer system.
Versus any mob that casts, I switch to this, and then switch back to my regular as soon as it procs. The 10/20 isn't that great nowadays, but stackable 6 per tick mana with SD and clarity is great :)
A few folks have said that this is a nice bard weapon because of the mana regen, and others have said that bards can't regen mana with spells.
This is a nice bard weapon, since every one of the stats (except possibly cold resist) is important to a bard, and it isn't too bad a ratio, good enough to make it worth using for its other stats for most mid- to high-level bards.
But it does not regenerate mana for a bard, even though the "Wandering Mind Recourse" will show in your spell buffs. I heard both, so I tested it, which is fairly easy now that mana is shown numerically. I removed my flowing thought items, waited for the weapon to proc, checked the increase over two minutes, then checked for two minutes without the buff, and mana regen was identical.
I'd also note than on my chanter, the regen from Wandering Mind is noticeable - not huge, but you can tell that you're regenning mana faster, and that's against a higher base. So on a bard you'd get a noticeable change to your mana bar if the recourse was effective.
I wondered whether it was worth moving my epic to my offhand for the claws. I wanted to keep my epic in primary to proc Dance of the Blade, but the claws can't be equipped in secondary. What I've found, though, is that the added dex from the claws is enough that I don't notice the difference. Dance of the Blade is pretty much permanently up when I'm meleeing, so I don't feel I've lost much exept a small amount of damage by switching my epic to secondary. And it's easy to switch the claws out with Thunderous Drum of Karana while leaving epic in offhand.
And, of course, the proc does have an effect - it does drain the target mob slightly, even though it doesn't give a bard any mana regen.
So it's still a very nice weapon for a bard, even if not for the reasons others have said. The lack of mana regen doesn't mean bards shouldn't have a chance at using it. Most int casters won't melee enough or have a high enough dex for the weapon to proc often; their mana regen is likely going to be much higher from meditating than attempting to proc the claws. And rangers and beastlords would likely be better served with higher damage weapons.
It's a good weapon for all classes who can use it, but not perfect for any one.
When you said "int casters won't melee enough or have a high enough dex for the weapon to proc often", i don't believe that is entirely accurate. Many nukers (ie. wiz and mage) use dex as a primary stat second only to int due to the Crit. component of higher dex. Thus, many of these int casters of the level to equip this weapon has a mediocer dex of around 160's (those i know anyway). (as for my toon Wiz i have 189dex at lvl 48)
The rest of what you say is true. Good insights...
I saved for a while to buy these on drinal, and ended up getting a deal at 7.6k. The routinely go for 10k-13k. I lay in wait in dungeons for caster mobs, attack, wait for proc, then sit. My chanter loves them, and might be hard pressed to find a decent replacement.
Charisma has been mentioned a few times here, but something that is not very well known that I haven't noticed mentioned is Charisma's HUGE influence over fizzles for detrimental songs... ie DoT kiting...
With my normal gear I have > 150Cha.... it wasn't always so and I would find myself pullin my hair out over the amount of fizzles I encountered... with my current charisma my stress level has lowered considerably
It is true that CHA (along with DEX, which you missed in your post) helps with missed notes for bards. Although these stats can be easily maxed with some Shaman buffs and/or Chanter buffs when you're in a normal group. Note that it'll be easier for shamans to raise your dex for a suitable amount of time than chanters. I'd also like to mention that there's a check against CHA for resisted pacifies, whether they aggro or not, for all classes.
You also mentioned DoT Kiting for bards. This item is useless for DoT Kiting since it cannot be equipped in the secondary slot, thus a drum would go in the primary slot. For those who aren't bards, it's impossible for a weapon to be equipped in the primary and an instrument in the secondary. Weapons with instrument modifiers do not apply to this. Also it would be useless for charm kiting since no instant/duration spells/songs increase mana regeneration for bards. Only FT and AAs.
It may also be ideal for you to get the Channeling Focus AA for bards, since this also helps prevent missed notes: "You nearly miss a note, but recover just in time!"
If I can afford it, I definitely want one for my Necro. Necros are probably the best class for this. Because we fear kite, there is no reason not to follow the mob while your pet and Dots are killing it and swing away till you get a proc for some extra mana.
no doubt, i felt the same way, i had bought this little toy for my necro on the 7th hammer. Awesome looking combo, i look like a DE MNK with my wanan be WLK in offhand an this long azz claw in the other ^_^
Chanters have mana drain spells that add to their own mana.
Without argument Bards would get the largest benefit of this item because:
Bards regerate mana super slow 1. their mana regeneration is not effected by spells like Kei 2. Their MAX med is a skill of ONE
3. other then this item, FT items are the only way to increase the rate of their mana regeneration.
while, some say bards dong use mana.....The most efficent way to exp a bard is by charm or swarm kite. Using charms uses mana, and one runs out fairly quickly with such a small regeneration rate.
What does make it great for chanters is the high bonus to Int and Cha simultaniously. The extra Mana and HP are a great boon.
Also... People seem to think that Chanters never really have a problem with mana..
This is not true. As an enchanter, it is my job to 1) control to flow of MOBS and 2) To make sure everybody ELSE has mana. That means keeping the clerics well stocked for heals and the Stat buffers supplied for... stat buffs.
In between mezzing, buffing, and debuffing I have to find time to med and replace my OWN mana. If I am doing my job properly and allowing the tanks to chain pull as much as the group can handle, then I rarely have as amply a supply of mana as I should. When others run out of mana it "oh damn" when healers or chanters run out, its "Train to Zone"!
And what people seem to forget is, while I don't tank as a chanter is doesn't matter. I don't need to be "hitting" the MOB to proc the wepon, I just need auto attack to be on. When the MOBS roll in, I always end up with my auto attack being on, even if I'm so far from melee that nothing would ever get hit by these!
first of all bards are intellegence based and cha matters alot to our slows, mezzes and charms. seconds, only FT regens bard mana, you cant sing to yourself, use kei, twitch, nothing. i think this is a great weapn for all that can use it, but a ranger or a bstlrd would get the most mana drain ou of a mob with it, as they melee faster and more often than the casters listed on the item. it would be a great piece for anyone though
My bard just got these...and im having trouble noticing any increase in mana regen when it procs...
:-(
Well i did some testing...and it sucks, the effect of this weapons actually does not help bards at all...i timed my mana regen and from the time it took me to gain exactly 3% w/o the effect was 108seconds (36s per 1% mana). With the effect it was the exact same (1% per 36seconds)...I guess FT items are still the only source that increases bard mana regen :-(
And you will not really notice an increase. The proc is the same as the level 39 enchanter spell, which tape 6 mana per tick for 2 minutes. That's a total of 120 mana. I have no idea how much mana bard songs use, but this is not very much with respect to level 50+ int casters. Since I acquired Theft of Thought (and the better LoY spell Scryer's Tresspass), I've never mem'd Wandering Mind.
If you are fighting caster mobs (many mobs that simply proc have no mana to effect) for long periods, you may still find the proc somewhat beneficial.
These are equipped on my chanter, not for the proc, but for the stats (HP, Mana, Int, AC,and Cha) all of which should benefit a bard nicely as well I believe.
the 2 songs that i know of at lvl 51 cost 60 mana for a charm that can last up to 1 minute, and 800 mana for a AE nuke that hits 4 mobs around your target for about 400 damage. and mana comes back 1 mana per tic , mana pool is about 1200
Depending on your class and play style, I would say these claws for most situations, but only when fighting casting mobs. (As EXAMPLE only, and no, I have never played a ranger, and yes I do realize they use a bow more, so no flames please) Personally, if I was say a ranger and on a big raid with a nasty aoe'ing mob, I would equip the claw till it proced, then switch over to the quill, rinse/repeat, etc. The proc is awesome for the int casters and hybrids, but if yer going for saves and dmg output I would go with the quill. It all depends on how you play, what mobs and situation you are in, and what class you are. Besides, who ever said you only had to have one weapon to use for all situations.
I dunno if this was a bug but we were setting up for a raid in Iceclad and we killed a wolf there he dropped these dunno if it is a bug or what but they just dropped. I was crying cause I was on my shaman at the time. ~Yujk 55 Shammy~
Most likely not your standard wolf, instead someone prolly didnt clear this doggie during the shawl quest and you just happened to pick up thier slack. Just food for thought...
This is really one of the best Enchanter primary slot item before PoP. With very good stats and wonderful effect, it make me love to melee all the time.
THis is good for CHanters cuz they can boon themself....but chanters tanking, not a good idea considering they have the smallest HP of all classes and the ac of well.....and int caster
I went out of my way and purchased these claws. I am a lvl 58 wizard without his epic. (Damn you Phini! DROP THE WAND!) Anyhow, while the stats are nice, I mainly wanted it for the effect.
First of all, you dont need to be in meele range for it to proc. That means, between nukes, I can sit on my horse and let these proc away. This gives me a little more mana and takes a little mana from the mean thingie that wants to cheal itself. In short, on long fights, this gives me more mana to deal out punishment with. On exp raids, it drains mana from those damned spiders in PoD that like to resist my stuns JUST before casting complete heal. This makes me more effective... and makes my group more effective.
So, all those that think this should go to one caster type or the bard or this or that... just stop and think for a moment. This is a VERY useful little item in ALL of our hands.
Does anyone know what lvl you can actually start equipping these? I know the recommended lvl is 51 but often times you can wquip such items before that. My wizard is currently lvl 35 and I was just curious when I can take these baby's out of the bank.
Mewlx - 52 Vah Shir warrior "He who laugh last, doesn't get joke" --Confucious
Most of the time recomended level items can be equipped but with a lesser effect than if someone was the appropiate level and the effect never procs till the recomended level.
However, I have seen items that only have a recomended level but won't even let you wear it till you hit that level - blood ember guantlets being the one I recall.
"reccomended level" is accually a required level, 99% of the time. With PoP, some items are now tagged with required levels (the minimum level to equip with reduced stats) and reccomended levels (to equip with full stats).
Absolutely wrong. I agree that is how it should work, but I have personally confirmed with a ranger and a toxiferous axe that despite being tagged with a recommended level, I could not equip it until i was level 51.
Does anyone know what lvl you can actually start equipping these? I know the recommended lvl is 51 but often times you can wquip such items before that. My wizard is currently lvl 35 and I was just curious when I can take these baby's out of the bank.
Mewlx - 52 Vah Shir warrior "He who laugh last, doesn't get joke" --Confucious
The proc is called Wandering Mind recourse, which is the same as the lvl 39 enchanter spell. It's a DOT that drains 120 mana in 20 ticks. And yes, the target has to be a caster and have mana for the proc to work. If they are not, it will say "Your target has no mana to affect" when the weapon should proc.
Oh, and the picture on this page shows a damage bonus of 11. They must have nerfed it, cause it no longer has any damage bonus. Still has AC though. A very nice weapon i've enjoyed having, and i'm sure I will keep using it until i get my epic.
The person who submitted the picture is either a bard, a rogue or a beastlord, that's why you see the damage bonus. The bonus that appears on an item is tailored to the person wielding it. Caster types never get a damage bonus, thus when a caster equips it, none appears. So it hasn't been nerfed in terms of bonus damage. In addition, bonus damage can vary due to class and level, so what appears here as 11, could be 7 for someone else, or 15 for another.
Oh, and the picture on this page shows a damage bonus of 11. They must have nerfed it, cause it no longer has any damage bonus. Still has AC though. A very nice weapon i've enjoyed having, and i'm sure I will keep using it until i get my epic.
Darkmatil Bonebringer 54th level Heretic Aftermath of Darkness Brell Serillis
Only Melee types get a damage bonus. Since you are a caster no bonus for you :)
#REDACTED,
Posted:Jun 13 2002 at 9:08 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I have very much enjoyed wielding these on my wizard. I get at lot of questions and comments on them all the time
The description of the spell is misleading. Wandering Mind is actually a Mana Tap. It gives you the mana that it's tapping from the mob, like Theft of Thought only over 20 ticks, hence the reason you also get a little Wandering Mind icon in your buff window to show that it's working.
My wife's got a 60 chanter and she still uses this in ToV to suck mana from Gaters and keep them as OOM as possible.
The description of the spell is misleading. Wandering Mind is actually a Mana Tap. It gives you the mana that it's tapping from the mob, like Theft of Thought only over 20 ticks, hence the reason you also get a little Wandering Mind icon in your buff window to show that it's working.
My wife's got a 60 chanter and she still uses this in ToV to suck mana from Gaters and keep them as OOM as possible.
Why are you people saying to quit arguing about who gets this weapon and do the shawl quest? The people that are doing the shawl quest are not going to be getting these items on top of it unless they are doing the battles solo or unless they are the greediest people on the face of the planet. All of these drops are designed to help reward those people that stuck by you during your shawl quest with a little something special for themselves. It's the same with the ring quest with all the nice little priest/caster bonuses thrown in after the 10th war (if you did well). I was more than happy to hand my warrior friend that stuck by me while trying to collect the siren hairs and velium hound furs with a sweet weapon as a symbol of my gratitude. I guess what I'm trying to say is that all the people out there talking about selling these things and/or keeping them for themselves while doing the shawl quest are probably never going to even get a chance to participate in the 8th shawl battles, let alone be the one that triggers them.... and it serves their selfish **** right.
Easy for you to say since cleric's can't even use the item. Not to mention the fact that your epic is 10 times easier to get than some of the classes that are able to use these claws. Don't get all pissy at those who want to keep or sell these items because, as you know, getting to the last shawl costs lots of money and time. Both that could have been used doing things like leveling and buying equipment.
If you want this for your ranger get off your butt and do the shawl quest--tired of hearing who this is best for--it is best for the person that puts in the time and pp do do these quests. If you want it--there are plenty of spoilers for the quests, hop on it, or shut it. END OF STORY
strange, claws usually = slashing. And why Nec can use but not SK? the +10 charisma, int, dex makes this look more like a chanter/bard weapon. dont want you charisma to get to high if you fear kiting IMO. The proc is of course best for caster but I wouldnt mind one of these whether I was playing hybrid or caster. Very helpful to both.
Ditto .. I've done plenty of fear kiting and have done it with both a CHA of 13(thirteen) and 120 and have seen no change on resists or how long fear sticks. So unless I'm missing something I'd probably say that CHA has NO EFFECT ON FEAR.
The only time (for a necro) that it makes a difference is buying / selling to vendors. I haven't tried a 13 CHA at Oggok to see if I get good prices since they dig ugly chicks! :) lol