Lamentation
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Ruins of Kunark
My main is a shaman, so when i started a warrior alt i had no idea what to set him up with... right now i'm using Bloodpoint in my primary, and an Intricate Silver Rapier in offhand. This a decent combo?
1 post
/agree I remeber when this was the BOMB! I played a Cleric in the original game up to the max level at the time, 60 if I remember with the expansion level at the time. I used him to twink a druid to 60, then the druid to do an SK to 60. I never had the feeling of achievement that I had with my first character where I earned everything. After playing for 3 years? I retired(not sold) the accounts. Now I'm back, after a 2 year hiatius, to do it all again. I currently have a level 40 froggy Shaman on Stromm, earning everything myself. It's really disappointing to go to POK and listen to all the begging for Kie, Hos, Virtue, Temp, etc. Be an expert on your class skills and abilities. Anyone can crank with Temp, Kie and a whamming big DS on. Makes the game too easy for my tastes. Knowledge is power! Just another 2c from the level 40 frog shammy hoping to upgrade his Bloodstained tunic soon, lol!
The real problem I had with "playing my class well" was not being able to find a group from 20 to about 40.
You see, as a rogue its hard to solo. You have no root or snare. You get knocked around pretty hard when your opponent crits a few times. You can't backstab unless your intimidate goes off and in dungeons you never want it to. And single pulling is just out of the question.
So, to help things along, I'll take a temp and sow when its available. It makes it so that I can kill light blue cons with my noob gear.
It was slightly easier soloing as a cleric (my first toon) but not by much.
When I get to a level where I can group more often I'll stop donating for temp but until then, what is the problem with that exactly?
You see, as a rogue its hard to solo. You have no root or snare. You get knocked around pretty hard when your opponent crits a few times. You can't backstab unless your intimidate goes off and in dungeons you never want it to. And single pulling is just out of the question.
So, to help things along, I'll take a temp and sow when its available. It makes it so that I can kill light blue cons with my noob gear.
It was slightly easier soloing as a cleric (my first toon) but not by much.
When I get to a level where I can group more often I'll stop donating for temp but until then, what is the problem with that exactly?
Scholar
19 posts
Lol, Im a 60 Chantee, one of the people giving the "Beggars" KEI. When you hit 46 and are able to get Virt and KEI you will be singing a different tune. The high end game is very different and you cant be a compitent Tank or caster without these buffs. BTW, Lammy is still great, I have one on 3 of my alts (Rng, SK, Pally)
True enough for the actual high end game, but 46 ain't it. If you can't tank in the 46-60 game without PoP era Virtue, you've got issues that buffs aren't going to fix.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
8 posts
... all i want to add to the post is this ... when i finally ground up enough plat to obtain my Lamentation, i thought i had died and gone to heaven ... not everyone comes out of the gate with ubah plat farming skills, warriors least of all. what weapon works best depends on what you are capable of doing with what you HAVE, lads and lassies ... i fought my way up well into my 20's first with my Gem-Etched axe Dirjadek made for me, then with a Sarnak Great Cleaver ... do your best, make no apologies for your equipment, but never be afraid to apologise for falling (as long as you stood long enough to get your friends out of harms way) and, finally ... HAVE FUN ... this is a game, after all
/agree
I sometimes get a little frustrated when I note that my resists aren't as high as some other people, or my STA (as a necro) is maybe lower than it should be, however I'm not going to let it bother me. I go through and do the quests I enjoy and like, not the ones that will get me the 'uberest gear'. The Illusion: Wood Elf quest out of Guk is a perfect example. The rewards are slight, but getting through the quest is in itself a great experience.
I'm not a member of an 'uber' raiding build, but we make do, and I've been lucky enough to get handed down some great gear that I otherwise would never have. Even still, people look at my gear and scoff at times. However, I make do...my resists are low - therefore I fight places where there are fewer spellcasters. Fitting your play style into your gear level is one of the challenges of the game. THE challenge of the game, if you want my humble opinion.
Edited, Mon Nov 29 22:18:57 2004
I sometimes get a little frustrated when I note that my resists aren't as high as some other people, or my STA (as a necro) is maybe lower than it should be, however I'm not going to let it bother me. I go through and do the quests I enjoy and like, not the ones that will get me the 'uberest gear'. The Illusion: Wood Elf quest out of Guk is a perfect example. The rewards are slight, but getting through the quest is in itself a great experience.
I'm not a member of an 'uber' raiding build, but we make do, and I've been lucky enough to get handed down some great gear that I otherwise would never have. Even still, people look at my gear and scoff at times. However, I make do...my resists are low - therefore I fight places where there are fewer spellcasters. Fitting your play style into your gear level is one of the challenges of the game. THE challenge of the game, if you want my humble opinion.
Edited, Mon Nov 29 22:18:57 2004
I can remember back when EQ 1st came out and got going, then kunark came out and the Lammy was UBER but those were the old days of EQ.
I remember playing a warrior and being lvl 53 and finally getting this weopon...I was very uber now... this weopon is still very nice as far as the speed and what it hit for...
personally I would like to see lvl restrictions on all armor and weopons.... that way we would have no uber geared lvl 1 players...and it would be fun to make alts and earn your way up
personally I would like to see lvl restrictions on all armor and weopons.... that way we would have no uber geared lvl 1 players...and it would be fun to make alts and earn your way up
44 posts
I have read this big thread and i think what soem people have forgotten is does anyone know what it feels like to be a total newb? not meaning in a deroggitory way but who has made a Alt and did not spend any money on him at all. Do the newbie quest aromor and weapon adn play the game. It is a whole new ball game =) I have done this recnetly and i will tell ya it is not easy. Takes alot of time a precious patience. So when all these people say this weapon is only good to lvl 20 or 30, think about what the person that doesnot spend any money to upgrade but instead earns everything threy own through quests and such. To that person When they reach lvl 53 and finally get one of these, they would nbe in my option one of the most proud people in this crazy game. Man i was proud and felt a real acomplishment when i got my chestplate at lvl 10 for my froggy warrior.
That all i got to say thought i would just put my 2 cents in. Really give everyone something to think about
That all i got to say thought i would just put my 2 cents in. Really give everyone something to think about
25 posts
In my opinion, I do respect what you mean, I myself have never worked on the newbie Quest, I had friends from CiH In drinal server who helped me out and I was Twink all the way. My druid a lvl one Got his Elysian Gear, and many disagree with it. I loved the gear and still use it, but i didnt slay any Elysian for it, I worked my pally from the ground up and missed the druid, and i can say i had a twink character to farm with and a Pally i can be proud of, after reading your post alone it made me enjoy the game, yet sometimes you have the urge to help others and actually twink them as many have called it. With some help from My druid Friend in CiH her name will not be mentioned but so Uberific, I use her toon to Quad Kite Elysians with ease to twink other druids who can make it to the camp site with out getting killed. So my hats off to you and for everyone else, This is also my two cents so don't shoot me lol
I totally agree. But its rather hard- I started a baby rogue on Xegony server, but when people would run by and see me fighting naked they would throw gear at me. I said no the first few times, but then I realized I was being silly and started accepting their charity. It's good to get back to the roots of the game some times, but there is a fine line between being twinked and being smart with your time =D.
Ok i am in total agreement. If i wanted to do complex math equations all day i'd take more trig classes, if i wanted to have fun playing a game i would buy weapons i could afford that looked good in my characters hand. THere are plenty of better weapons out there than this, but my 40sk would still use it and id bite the tail off any fool who tried to gimmie crap for it. Ok so m 59 Warriro wouldnt bother, but I still use SotBS and Fleshgrinder as my weapons and i dont care which is in what hand either... and i know i could probably beg for cash or wast e2 weeks farming to buy a better one or raid ssra for weeks to loot a better one... I would rather grind levels and improve skills because thats where the heart of combat lies... not how devastation you are against that Kobold runt but how you fare against Planar mobs etc.. So to all you Ratio grinding numbers crunch loonies quit making my game less interesting! Im so sick of seeing people with the same weapons and armor all over... its like a rap video everyoen wants to be the blingingest and no one wants to be original
4 posts
Yes the argent defender is the one i think that u should choose. It is a great weapon but it is even better since ur lvl 5
Got an Argent Defender, while helping my wife's cleric work on her epic (she got it....woot her), anyhow, I saw it had no level limit on it, so I handed it over to my lil 20 Zerker ogre.
It's sad when my little twinker Zerker hits for just under 300 on crits(296), when I remember as a level 19 paladin I was only hitting for 19 with my Shady bandit longsword that someone gave me. Sure I knew it sucked at the time, but I was a true noob, and it was all I had, so it had to do. At least my alts get usable hand me downs from our hi levels.
I am very happy with argent defender still, now my Berzerker is level 38, and still using it. It is still a great weapon for him, and will be for some time to come.
Spum Pyooyhand
38 Ogre Berserker
<Sign of One>
~Karana~
It's sad when my little twinker Zerker hits for just under 300 on crits(296), when I remember as a level 19 paladin I was only hitting for 19 with my Shady bandit longsword that someone gave me. Sure I knew it sucked at the time, but I was a true noob, and it was all I had, so it had to do. At least my alts get usable hand me downs from our hi levels.
I am very happy with argent defender still, now my Berzerker is level 38, and still using it. It is still a great weapon for him, and will be for some time to come.
Spum Pyooyhand
38 Ogre Berserker
<Sign of One>
~Karana~
4 posts
Personally i would choose the argent defender by far because for one it is a great weapon but for a lvl 5 then it is even better so yes i would try it out because when i was around lvl 25ish i still used mine
20 posts
I have a 5 sk who im tryin to twink a little. should i use this, mace of the shadowed soul, or argent defender?
Use the Mace of the shadowed soul. For several reasons.
1) MoSS has a much better ratio then Lamentation, and slightly better than Argent Defender.
2) Moss allows you to use a shield, which argent defender doesn't.
3) Damage caps. You are level 5. The highest you will hit for, regardless of weapon, is low-mid 20s, depending on str bonus. You'll get 3 hits with MoSS for every 2 hits with AD. Damage cap goes up at level 10, to about 30ish, which still favors the MoSS, over the AD. Note that the lamentation would actually kill mobs faster up to level 10, but after that, the MoSS would outperform it.
4) Price - MoSS is usually way cheaper than lammy, and somewhat cheaper than AD.
When you get to higher levels, you will undoubtably want to use a 2h weapon, at least part of the time. However, keeping skill up doesn't require you to constantly use that weapon type. Grab something cheap for each other weapon type, and use it for a short time each level.
BTW, if you really want a 2hs weapon, get Blackened Alloy ******* Sword. At low levels it SIGNIFICANTLY outperforms argent defender, due to damage caps. Argent defender doesn't start to outperform, until somewhere in the 30s.
1) MoSS has a much better ratio then Lamentation, and slightly better than Argent Defender.
2) Moss allows you to use a shield, which argent defender doesn't.
3) Damage caps. You are level 5. The highest you will hit for, regardless of weapon, is low-mid 20s, depending on str bonus. You'll get 3 hits with MoSS for every 2 hits with AD. Damage cap goes up at level 10, to about 30ish, which still favors the MoSS, over the AD. Note that the lamentation would actually kill mobs faster up to level 10, but after that, the MoSS would outperform it.
4) Price - MoSS is usually way cheaper than lammy, and somewhat cheaper than AD.
When you get to higher levels, you will undoubtably want to use a 2h weapon, at least part of the time. However, keeping skill up doesn't require you to constantly use that weapon type. Grab something cheap for each other weapon type, and use it for a short time each level.
BTW, if you really want a 2hs weapon, get Blackened Alloy ******* Sword. At low levels it SIGNIFICANTLY outperforms argent defender, due to damage caps. Argent defender doesn't start to outperform, until somewhere in the 30s.
20 posts
I have 3 weapons too choose from with a 24 ranger. Lammy, Centi Short, and Centi Hammer. What combo would give the best DPS? (I am wearing LDoN ringmail and have a high AGL so I often have the best AC in my group, so it is often best for me to also keep agro) And of course, what weapon should be in what hand?
Edited, Fri Oct 24 01:36:09 2003
Edited, Fri Oct 24 01:36:09 2003
49 posts
From my experience the best way to dual-wield is with a fast item in primary.(9-19 Lammy for instance)and then either putting an item in the offhand that's just as fast....or...much slower but not quite over twice as slow. Defenders Lightblade would be a good offhand. You only get a chance to dual-wield every other time you swing, but your damage will be significantly higher those times.(I have a 35 Ranger offhanding for 80s with the Lightblade and primary-damaging with a Razor-Edged Shan'tok for 38-40. Not sure if I'm right, but seems to work well for me. :-)
Swinging your secondary weapon has NOTHING to do with the primary weapon delay. They are independent of each other.
To test this, try the following:
Put a wurmslayer in primary. Put a jade mace in secondary. Make sure your screen is set to see misses as well as hits.
Attack something. You will see rounds where you crush 3 or 4 times between swings of the wurmslayer.
What this shows you is that the jade mace cycled thru twice in one round with the wurmslayer.
The timer on the secondary check is based on secondary weapon speed. If you have a lamentation in primary, it WILL swing, every 1.9 seconds (unhasted). If you have a 25 delay weapon in secondary, it will do a check against your dual wield skill every 2.5 seconds (unhasted) and will swing it the check passes.
Secondary is NOT TIED to primary.
To test this, try the following:
Put a wurmslayer in primary. Put a jade mace in secondary. Make sure your screen is set to see misses as well as hits.
Attack something. You will see rounds where you crush 3 or 4 times between swings of the wurmslayer.
What this shows you is that the jade mace cycled thru twice in one round with the wurmslayer.
The timer on the secondary check is based on secondary weapon speed. If you have a lamentation in primary, it WILL swing, every 1.9 seconds (unhasted). If you have a 25 delay weapon in secondary, it will do a check against your dual wield skill every 2.5 seconds (unhasted) and will swing it the check passes.
Secondary is NOT TIED to primary.
21 posts
What do you guys think of a lammy, wurmy combo? I have heard it isn't that good of a combo not too sure though.
You want the best possible RATIO in secondary. Look for something with a ratio below 2.
Sry, ment it backwords, Mallet in Primary and Lammy in Secondary
Would this be good in primary with Guard Captain's Mallet (dmg11, dly 20, +6 dex, +6 agi, +45 hp) on secondary for a 20 warrior? Ty in advance for all replies
At level 20, swap it the other way around. Guard Mallet in primary, and Lamentation in off-hand.
As a 48 Ranger the 2 weapons that I use are Lammy and Flamesong. I normally keep the Lammy in primary and Flamesong in secondary. Personally I am very happy with the combination. Just my thoughts.
24 posts
Hello I am a 31 warrior and I have two Lamentations. I was just wondering when I should start thinking about getting some new weps. How long will the ammys last me?
19 posts
wow - Im a 37 ranger and im hoping to upgrade to a lammy. me thinks you have much moolah (btw if you have some to spare and are on KB...)
At lvl 35, I replaced my offhand with Veno axe, and liked the effect the proc had on holding aggro. At 40, I went with frostbringer in primary. Frosty/veno is a great combo, and for me, held aggro much better than lammies.
Howeve,r if you can't afford to upgrade, the lammies should hold you til near 50. You'll want better when you go tank in PoP zones.
Howeve,r if you can't afford to upgrade, the lammies should hold you til near 50. You'll want better when you go tank in PoP zones.
Well I used my lammies until level 45, and I was still holding aggro over more than 90% of the warriors I was grouping with, so I'd say they're still great into your 40's.
Edited, Wed Apr 16 20:39:10 2003
Edited, Wed Apr 16 20:39:10 2003
14 posts
i really want one it is a good beginning wep and having 2 for my range will kick *** 
BAH! Stoopid me, didn't see the "There are 5 pages" note, disregard that message of mine 'less you're an idiot ranting on and on about how Wurmy combo with x weapon blah blah blah
Alright alright!! Enough of this! If you want to talk about the Jade Mace or the Wurmslayer, go to http://www.steelwarriors.org (or something like that), rant on about those weapons there. But this messageboard is for the Lamentation, NOT the Jade Mace or the Wurmslayer. /rant off...anyway, got a level 21 SK who would beg anyone for one of these, even if my Jagged Blade of Mourning is pretty darn good anyway!
Lamentation is woefully inadequate for a Shadow Knight. Better off spending money on something better suited for you... like the MoSS a person suggested. Can be had for 25 to 50 pp (on my server) and gets the job done.
45 posts
Black Reaver, for asking about lammy, as an sk for my main I'd recommend sticking with your JBM for now. Using a lammy is only good from lv 1 to maybe early lv 30's. At low end it of it, the stats are great and the ratio really helps. When you start getting into your 20's you start to notice you damage output isn't that great compared to the other classes. But when you start to get into your 30's even when buffed up to +210str and having schw, you realize the lammy just doesn't cut it and your damage output really sucks as an sk compared to everyone else. I'd recommend using the 'mace of the shadowed soul'(19/29, +10int) like the other 2 posts below stated, however it is 1hb instead of 1hs. As for better 1hs weapons you might want to try for a 'noctivant blade'(18/26, +10dex, +15int, also sk only) or if you can afford something much more expensive, try getting 'a massive dragonclaw shard'(28/30, +3wis, +3int, sk/pally only). Hope that helps.
Criimzon Kniight, lv 47 human sk, Drinal
Criimzon Kniight, lv 47 human sk, Drinal
21 posts
It isn't really a good idea to use a lammy or a wurmy for an sk. For mine i am aimed more at the 2h weapons, MoSS is a very nice weapon for it's price, and exclusively sk. Shadow Knight=no dual wield, think about that, Blackreaver =P
This is not a good weapon for a 21 SK. grab yourself a mace of the shadowed soul, and do some big damage. You're not getting damage bonuses yet, and MoSS ratio is much better.
This is a sword for dual wield classes, who don't get weapons with ratios like MoSS.
This is a sword for dual wield classes, who don't get weapons with ratios like MoSS.
Got one of these for free on the Torvonnilous sevrer earlier today.. I said through trade channel I wanted to trade for one.. but the guy was a lvl 53 so he had much better.. so He just bought me one and told me to enjoy it! I love my combo of the SSoY and Lammy
Silver Sword of yalrek (SSoY) = 13/23 <stats>
Lammy <look above smart guy>
Silver Sword of yalrek (SSoY) = 13/23 <stats>
Lammy <look above smart guy>
Allright, I just have one question: Why are Defiances worth so much more than Lamentations now adays? I see Lammies going for 1-2k and Defiances going for 3-4k on my server (Tholuxe Paells). When you compare their stats, lammies are just as good if not better.
Lamentation:
Damage: 9
Delay: 19
Ratio: 2.111 Str: +6 Sta: +6 HP: +20
Defiance:
Damage: 9
Delay: 19
Ratio: 2.111 AC: +10 Str: +6 Dex: +8
They have the exact same ratios, the only difference I see is that lammies have 20HP and 6 STA instead of 10AC and 8 DEX. Is that little thing really worth 3k? As a warrior, I would take the 6 STA 20 HP over the 10 AC anytime. Is it just an issue of rarity here or am I missing something big?
Lamentation:
Damage: 9
Delay: 19
Ratio: 2.111 Str: +6 Sta: +6 HP: +20
Defiance:
Damage: 9
Delay: 19
Ratio: 2.111 AC: +10 Str: +6 Dex: +8
They have the exact same ratios, the only difference I see is that lammies have 20HP and 6 STA instead of 10AC and 8 DEX. Is that little thing really worth 3k? As a warrior, I would take the 6 STA 20 HP over the 10 AC anytime. Is it just an issue of rarity here or am I missing something big?
Very simple reason, really... Defiance has AC, lammy doeasn't... The measly HP from the lammy is easily made up from other sources... but a weapon with 10AC is in high demand to those people who have been dringing that "AC is God" kool-aid that Steelwarrior.org keeps pumping out...
Besides, nowadays, AGI is god, AC is only king, and DEX is the queen... Strength is little more than prince.
38 posts
So heres my problem, i currently have these 4 wepeons in my possession:
Defiance
Crystalline Short Sword
Wurmslayer
Venomous Axe of the Velium Brood
I am also thinking of purchasing a Lammy or Centi LS
Im trying to decide whats the best combo for a lvl 38 ranger, and im asking because i haven't tested them out yet, im going through a weps phase atm trying to decide a good combo for my lvl. Also is it worth buying a lammy or a centi LS or is a combo out of these 4 weps good enuff. Any experienced rangers have any ideas? i am a part time solo part time grouping ranger, with decent gear, but keep in mind that my sta sux. Another question: how long will this combo that people have suggested will last me? which should go in primary and which in secondary? up to my 50s when i get my epic? thx
Defiance
Crystalline Short Sword
Wurmslayer
Venomous Axe of the Velium Brood
I am also thinking of purchasing a Lammy or Centi LS
Im trying to decide whats the best combo for a lvl 38 ranger, and im asking because i haven't tested them out yet, im going through a weps phase atm trying to decide a good combo for my lvl. Also is it worth buying a lammy or a centi LS or is a combo out of these 4 weps good enuff. Any experienced rangers have any ideas? i am a part time solo part time grouping ranger, with decent gear, but keep in mind that my sta sux. Another question: how long will this combo that people have suggested will last me? which should go in primary and which in secondary? up to my 50s when i get my epic? thx
Hmm... as a Ranger, different situations calls for different weapons. For sheer DPS, always keep the fastest weapon in your primary hand (to take advantage of the damage bonus), and your best ratio weapon in your off-hand (Damage bonus does not apply so delay is not that big of a priority).
So, if you're grouped with competant tanks or you want to dish out damage (like SKs and Paladins who can out-taunt you), go with Defiance (main), and either the Centi or the Venomous (the proc will probably give you better taunt) in your off-hand.
However, if you're grouped with an incompetant tank, or you don't want to draw too much agro, switch to Wurmslayer in your primary (slow delay sucks but can still do some damage), and again either a Centi or the Venomous depending how much taunt you want.
If you have Defiance, don't bother with the Lamentation.
Edited, Mon Mar 10 19:44:50 2003
So, if you're grouped with competant tanks or you want to dish out damage (like SKs and Paladins who can out-taunt you), go with Defiance (main), and either the Centi or the Venomous (the proc will probably give you better taunt) in your off-hand.
However, if you're grouped with an incompetant tank, or you don't want to draw too much agro, switch to Wurmslayer in your primary (slow delay sucks but can still do some damage), and again either a Centi or the Venomous depending how much taunt you want.
If you have Defiance, don't bother with the Lamentation.
Edited, Mon Mar 10 19:44:50 2003
38 posts
well what about the wurmy/centi combo in group situations? i found that i didn't like the venom axe much (tho 85dd proc is nice)and besides it has no stats besides 10 ac. You may be like "10 ac thats godo!" but im also trying to focus on other stats :-) The centi gives 8 sta, therefore more hp, and it also gives str.
so lemme get this straight, def and centi for soloing and wurmy centi for grps? how long will it be till i gotta consider new weps?
lol thx for all ur help
so lemme get this straight, def and centi for soloing and wurmy centi for grps? how long will it be till i gotta consider new weps?
lol thx for all ur help
Both of my examples are for group situations. If you're soloing, I'd advise going for the pure damage as you can always back off and DoT and heal (assuming you've snared and such).
Stats are pretty damn trivial when you're looking at weapons. The first and foremost thing to look at is the delay. After that, you look at the AC bonuses it could give or HP, and then you look at the proc if there is one. For your off-hand, you look at ratio. It doesn't matter if a shoddy weapon gives you 20 DEX and STR. The effects of stats are marginal at best, and you should never, ever base your decision of a weapon on stat bonuses.
When you fight as a Ranger, you look for Damage first, and then AC and HP second (again assuming you are grouping with incompetant tanks that can not taunt better than you).
Stats are pretty damn trivial when you're looking at weapons. The first and foremost thing to look at is the delay. After that, you look at the AC bonuses it could give or HP, and then you look at the proc if there is one. For your off-hand, you look at ratio. It doesn't matter if a shoddy weapon gives you 20 DEX and STR. The effects of stats are marginal at best, and you should never, ever base your decision of a weapon on stat bonuses.
When you fight as a Ranger, you look for Damage first, and then AC and HP second (again assuming you are grouping with incompetant tanks that can not taunt better than you).
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 04 2003 at 4:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hmmmm...probably not, seeing as delay is something that's usually factored into the equation....but you probably didn't know that anyway...once again, what's considered a step up from a lammy for a warrior?
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 10 2003 at 2:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you even had a third of a brain, you'd realize when someone mentions damage, they mean damage output. Use your common sense.
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