Epic 1.5 or 2.0 - One or the Other

A message from EQLive regarding an upcoming flag change for Epic 1.5 and Epic 2.0: With the next update all 1.5 and 2.0 epics will be flagged as LORE. They will be LORE to each other, meaning you will only be able to possess either epic 1.5 OR epic 2.0. Prior to the update it is advised that if you still possess both epic 1.5 and 2.0 that you delete 1.5, the code for this change will remove one of these from your possession but will not differentiate between the two. If the system does the deletion, there is a possibility your epic 2.0 will be removed from your possession instead of the 1.5.

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BS
# Sep 06 2005 at 6:32 PM Rating: Default
That cant be, That is Bs they should not do that, That's what makes the people the bast tanks, heals, dps, Etc,I realy think they should let u because in raid or groups u migth use the 1.5 or in some ther ones you might use the 2.0, I have my 1.0 right now on my Main Hilol 66 cleric on veeshan now Luclin. It is cool if i had to pick between all 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 id pick all 3. I think the 2.0 should be a range item with like +10 to EVER stat evern regen, ATK, all of them So perople done lost them so teh 1.5 is just a little better then the " old" 2.0 or just give every 1 1000k plat heh

Edited, Tue Sep 6 19:47:50 2005
Dont do the crime if ya cant do the time!
# Sep 01 2005 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
Personally if I think if they got both through an exploit then any toon found with both should have both the 1.5 and 2.0 deleted.

Yeah, yeah they didnt use an exploit to get the 2.0 but they did use an exploit after that!

Hell, even flag the offenders so they cant posses either too.

Harsh....yes, but Just.
Hi
# Sep 01 2005 at 7:14 AM Rating: Decent
Everyone who's offered "programming" tips seem to think that BASIC is used to program EQ and that only two lines of code would be necessary.
RE: Hi
# Sep 03 2005 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
It isn't basic. However the upper lever programming languages are getting closer to real language for programming. I personally am a programmer and program games, I don't work for SoE and have not seen the actual code, however I would imagine it is in c++ or openGL.
Don't see the big deal
# Aug 31 2005 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
I don't see what the big deal. 1) They were getting their 1.5's again thru exploit. 2) If they have their 2.0's then they'll remember getting the 1.5. So I just don't see the big deal with this. Though it SHOULD be able to tell the difference.
RE: Don't see the big deal
# Sep 01 2005 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
Yeah people are definitely getting way to worked up about this. AFAIK, the only class that can get both epics is rogue. And to any rogue that can get 2.0, the 1.5 is a piece of garbage.

They need to put in a patch message a warning about this, so that everyone has a chance to read it, but other than that I don't have any problems with the way they are handling things.
epic 1.5 and 2.0
# Aug 31 2005 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
i was wondering why would SOE do this cause you will need the 1.5 to get the 2.0 that i have read i have read for some 2.0 epics that it say ok you need to do this if you dont have either of the epics 1.5 or 2.0 you need the 1.0 epic to get the 1.5 epic. Now if you dont have any of the epics at all then you have to do this and this to get your epic 1.0 then you have to do this and this to get 1.5 epic only if you have 1.0 epic this is all being said for your epic 2.0 granted you can skip all that if you have the 1.0 or 1.5 epics but i think this stupid of SOE to do this. Like i said you need to get this epic 1.0 to get this epic 1.5 then you need to get 2.0. So how can any one go for there epic 2.0 if you can only have one or the other. Can anybody this question for me PLZ?
<sigh>
# Aug 31 2005 at 12:06 AM Rating: Default
My god.....someone apparently knows what they are talking about. i read the whole thread and everyone is basically "i heard from suzy who heard from lacie who heard from...." OR, "in my uneducated opinion..." ....when it is clearly spelled out why and how this exploit was used. it is not possible to get both without cheating. Period and end of discussion. if you have both, delete 1.5 or roll the dice and kiss your 2.0 goodbye.
Thank you Sir Drannor for an intelligent post.
CHEEEEESE
# Aug 30 2005 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
yeah i kinda agree, its pretty damn cheesy to have 2.0 and 1.5 it was never meant to be that way, it IS in FACT an exploit so i guess ppl should be happy they are only getting thier 1.5 taken rather than haveing a ban or warning or such placed on thier account..... and as for ppl that lose thier 2.0 all i can really say is grats on reaping what you sow
It's not rocket science Sony
# Aug 30 2005 at 8:30 PM Rating: Decent
try this

If Weapon1.5 and weapon 2.0
Delete Weapon 1.5
End If

hope this code description (not actual code) helps
Altered Nerf =P
# Aug 30 2005 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Why not just let CURRENT wielders of both use both, and just have NEW wielders only able to wield one?

____________________________
[65 Warrior] Basak (Iksar) - EQ Test
RE: Altered Nerf =P
# Aug 31 2005 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Because these current wielders of both only got them through exploits. They're not supposed to have both.
RE: Altered Nerf =P
# Aug 31 2005 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Ah, I see =P -- I suppose that could be good to do, I was thinking you could quest 1.5 AGAIN not exploit to get it again, which would be pretty cool, IMO =P

____________________________
[65 Warrior] Basak (Iksar) - EQ Test
why lore?
# Aug 30 2005 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
To allieviate the issue of "destroying someone's hard work" or "they used bugs and exploits" just make the 1.5 unequipable in the event that the toon already posseses 2.0. This way all those who have done the work to either discover/use a workaround or obtained both in other means, will not lose their 1.5 entirely.

The programming would be simple in comparison to the coding required to make each zone, basically 2nd year programming students could write the code(if not first year, depending on curriculum).
Very simple;
if epic 2.0 = true
if epic 1.5 = true
epic 1.5 = unequipable
done, very simple nested if statement.

I understand that many use the epic as status symbol and mark of accomplishment. Even if you don't like the unequipable flag, remove the stats from the item, leaving it to be just a graphic to show off while running through ZoneX or sitting in PoK waiting for the next group or raid to get off the ground. Point is, even the members of the "elite" guilds struggled at first and still spend a great deal of time in being able to complete these quests for SoE to say "you are too powerful to have both". If you didn't want to allow players to become as powerful as they are now, you should have considered that when coding the quests to make sure the workarounds didn't either work or exist. Anyway, gratz SoE on finding yet another way to anger your playerbase.
RE: why lore?
# Aug 30 2005 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
SoE is not being lazy, just doing what's right.

Because 1.5 and 2.0 were never meant to coexist. That's why it's called an epic PROGRESSION. It's because it's the same unique epic weapon that gets progressed through the quest.

The only reason people have "done the work to either discover/use a workaround or obtained both in other means", did it by exploit.

If removing something that a player got from exploiting the game is "angering your playerbase", then I dare invite you to get that playerbase to stop playing.
#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 30 2005 at 6:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Are you a programmer? No. That would not be simple at all. It's hard enough to make two different items lore with each other, much less program this.
RE: why lore?
# Aug 31 2005 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
As a matter of fact, I am, and yes it is that simple. I know c++ and working with openGL, the two most prevalent languages used in coding games,MMORPGs anyway. It is simply an inventory script that runs through each toons inventory and searches for certain criteria, if the criteria is met, it takes a certain action.
As far as making two seperate items lore to each other, no that would not be exceedingly difficult. The lore tag works in much the same way, an inventory script. If an item is lore, when a toon attempts to loot/receive the item, the script is run to see if the player has the item already in inventory, so they add a second criteria as to which to check against.

As for angry players leaving, anyone remember FoH, Afterlife(the guild responsible for the submission to allah's of the majority of high-end raid drops and the first to enter Time.) Well they are a memory due to the fact that they got angry for SoE releasing content that was broken/bugged, well the majority of whom scooted off to WoW at the first opportunity.

How about Conquest from the Lanys server? They were originally banned for using a so-called exploit to wake Kerafyrm(the Sleeper). After PoP was released, they were invited back and quickly moved back to elite status on their server, where are they now, last roll call I saw they were over on WoW also. So as far as the dare to get them to quit playing, just a few of the higher profile examples.

As far as exploits/workarounds, SoE if your content is broken and it adversly affects your players, you give us the "the content is working as intended." However when the bugs allow for an expoit that positvely affects/grants too much power to your players, you say "this was never intended and we are fixing it with the next patch." Does anyone else see something "working as intended" with this philosophy?

Edited, Wed Aug 31 04:26:40 2005
RE: why lore?
# Aug 30 2005 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
I am, and it is as simple as stated above.
Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 29 2005 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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153 posts
Paladins have already had to deal with this issue for their epic 1.0. First, you get Ghoulbane. Then, you get Soulfire. With these 2 swords, you HAVE to turn them in to get the Fiery Avenger. And guess what? You have to turn in the FA to get the Fiery Defender.

It is fairly clear that the intent of the designers is for epics 1.5 and 2.0 to be progressive and singular. Sure, maybe you can find a way to get around having to turn in your prior epic, but you will have a hard time arguing that the INTENT of the designers was for people to have both, when the script and criteria is clearly that you need to turn 1.5 in to get 2.0.

#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 30 2005 at 6:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This has nothing to do with 1.0's.
RE: Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 31 2005 at 3:32 AM Rating: Decent
If you read the post correctly, you would notice that the poster is not saying that it has anything to do with the 1.0. What he is saying is that Paladins have already had to deal with turning in what seems to be epic (at the time of release) to get the real epic in progression, much like the turning in 1.5 to get 2.0 progression.
RE: Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 30 2005 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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2,600 posts
I don't think this applies to 1.0 Epics.

You can get Ghoulbane as a drop off 2 different MOB's.

You can quest Soulfire again and again.

As for Epic 1.5 and 2.0 -- Epic 1.5 is part of the "combine" to make the 2.0. So, Paladins loose the 1.5 sword anyway.
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RE: Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 30 2005 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
You do NOT get a 'Drop' for Ghoulbane off of 2 different mobs. The only 'Drop' is from Shin Lord in Guk, the other method is a quest method.
RE: Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 31 2005 at 12:24 AM Rating: Decent
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2,600 posts
Sorry -- wrong.

It also drops in Southern Felwithe off of Joren Nobleheart (Level 60). I've confirmed this 1st hand.
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RE: Turning in your Epic for the next one
# Aug 30 2005 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
There is two dropped Ghoulbanes, and one quested, so there is three ways to aquire said Ghoulbane
____________________________
[65 Warrior] Basak (Iksar) - EQ Test
...
# Aug 29 2005 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
39 posts
The thing that gets me is that on the OoW box art it showed a barbarian rogue weilding what looks like two epic 1.5/2.0 daggers.
RE: ...
# Aug 30 2005 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Dev team has already stated over and over again that the original intent that inspired the art was that it was to be worked in that it could be possible for rogues to DW the epics, but due to game balancing issues they later decided to abandon the idea.

That's why you see it in the theme art. The point to note here is that concept art is NOT to reflect the final result of the game's development.

Much like concept cars are very rarely mass produced.
RE: ...
# Aug 30 2005 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
This is the most mundane, senseless, and useless arugument against this change. By far.
#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 30 2005 at 6:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The art on the box has nothing to do with what is inside.
No redoing quest
# Aug 29 2005 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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195 posts
People need to understand that the players with both 1.5 and 2.0 didn't do their 1.5 quest all over again. As a failsafe in the Rogue quest, you could, if 1.5 was not in your inventory but you were flagged as possessing it, go get a new one by talking to an NPC. So, people were leaving 1.5 on a corpse, which SoE does not scan for "possession", then going to that NPC, using the new 1.5 to get 2.0, then going back and looting their old 1.5 from their corpse.

From what I've read, there's no instance of a player with both that did all the raids and work to get 2.0 and then went back to get 1.5, because you are flagged to not be able to repeat the quest. The NPCs won't respond. The mobs I need to kill for 1.5 that I've already killed, don't spawn any more when I enter the zones they are in, as they used to before I killed them.
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Deleting one but dont know which one?
# Aug 29 2005 at 9:19 AM Rating: Default
What kind of programming is going on at SOE if they can distinquish between the two epics in the game but they cant do the same when it comes to deleting one from a player's inventory of items? How stupid is it to not go the extra step in programming an update to be sure noone loses their epic 2.0 if they happen to have both? If they can tell the two apart IN GAME then that kind of selective programming CAN be done! Dont delete someone's 2.0 cause you are too lazy to complete the LORE update. :P
RE: Deleting one but dont know which one?
# Aug 29 2005 at 9:31 AM Rating: Default
26 posts
Easier (and even fits in with the laziness category), don't delete them at all.

People have worked very hard to progress through to do their 1.5 over again, so here's a fine example of SoE's slapping players in the hand, going "Bad player, you did all that hard work to do your epic again, because you felt it was novel and fun and worthwhile, so now we're going to take it away from you".

Feels somewhat like they're trying to make a whole lot people not want to play anymore. Your paycheck getting too fat, SoE?

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Edited:
That is, should it be possible to repeat the quest again. My feeling is that they should be - though not quite exactly the same way.

Edited, Mon Aug 29 11:12:12 2005
RE: Deleting one but dont know which one?
# Aug 29 2005 at 10:49 AM Rating: Default
I agree on letting people keep both 1.5 and 2.0 but couldnt believe SOE would RANDOMLY delete one if you had both. I dont know why they dont just make each epic LORE by itself. Then you could save ALL the work people have done and they could have their 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0 that they worked so hard to get.
BUT, if SOE feels that they HAVE to undo what paying customers have accomplished, then they should have the decency to do the job RIGHT and not randomly destroy peoples' hard work because SOE is too LAZY to do their change properly.
RE: Deleting one but dont know which one?
# Aug 29 2005 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
As I understand it (now that I've read official forums) 1.5 and 2.0 were never supposed to coexist.

In fact - they were flagged in the progression that soon as you hand in the 1.5 for the 2.0, you cannot go back and re-do the quest. Ever.

The 'dual' 1.5 and 2.0 were made because some people decided to explore an exploit to obtain both. This was against original conception. - Hence not 'destroying hard work in obtaining both 1.5 and 2.0'. Though agreed that if they randomly destroy 2.0, that would be hard work indeed destroyed, though, that is of their own doing, since they were not supposed to have the 1.5 sitting there along with their 2.0 in the first place. Considerably, punishment for exploitation.

While I still feel the small tingling sensation of need to have both, I understand that this is not supposed to be. Which is fine and good.

Just, it would be nice to have. =)
make up your minds SOE
# Aug 29 2005 at 4:55 AM Rating: Default
OK you gave us the quests for 1.5 and 2.0 to get us to buy the new expansions, you gave us quests to solve to find the dragons and don't do it too soon or the world as we know it would be distroyed, now you're taking away what some people have worked hard to get. I admit I've only got 1.0 on my beast and barely started on any of the others, but if someone does the work for 1.5 they should have 1.5 if they then go on to do the work for 2.0 then they should have that too.
An epic isn't something that you can pick up in the bazaar... ok I take that back with 1.0 you can just about MQ some of them all other then the beast one which was way way easier then I thought it would be. Only hard part on that was shoving my friends out the way to get a hit or two on the final mob and remembering to breath in that other zone.
The point of it is you do the quest you should get the reward not an "oh well you should have made up your mind which one you want to get cause a year down the road we're going to take one of them away from you"
#REDACTED, Posted: Aug 29 2005 at 9:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think you understand 1.5's and 2.0's. In order to get your 2.0 you must hand in your 1.5. People were only getting both through bugs and exploits. It was never intented for anyone to have both. Before you post, you might want to go over what you know about them.
RE: make up your minds SOE
# Aug 29 2005 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
I am sort of a hipocrate about this.

While I agree that handing in the 1.5 to get 2.0 is an unfortunate but necessary quest progression, I feel that should anyone wish to go through the pain and suffering of attaining their 1.5 over again, they should not be disallowed to.

The rationale behind that, is that each of the epic weapons differ in their stats and abilities. To most people they are sort of a novelty, a collector's item if you will, and also a status symbol.

Yes, I agree that they were not supposed to 'co-exist' per se. But no, I do not agree in disallowing them to co-exist. I feel that players should be given the option to still go back and do their epic 1.5, after their 2.0 achievement, but be flagged at the end of 2.0 so that they cannot go through to do 1.5 in the formal route. They should be discouraged, not disallowed, to repeat their 1.5 quest, by having to do a much more difficult progression. Make the second time around something that will be equally difficult to the 2.0.

This would disgruntle a lot less people, than just simply saying "You can't have both." Because being one of those people that treasure the novelty, I'm naturally tempted to say, "But, but..."

2 cents.

---------
Edited:
That is, should it be possible to repeat the quest again. My feeling is that they should be - though not quite exactly the same way.


Edited, Mon Aug 29 11:12:37 2005
lol
# Aug 29 2005 at 1:22 AM Rating: Default
i heard peeps in my server saying that they had lost all their epics. now i know why. damn stupid soe.
Why?
# Aug 28 2005 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
My question is... why? Aren't the effects on both the same? It's not like people need a set of corpse recovery gear in their bank anymore, with the guild hall, SK's/necros, and graveyards. If the two weapons have two seperate effects, not merely where one is an upgrade of the other, I could understand that. From a roleplaying perspective, it doesn't make sense, but this game hasn't made sense from an RP perspective for years.

Hmm, just had an idea... does it have to do perhaps with reuse timers, where you could use the clicky on 2.0, then before that reuse timer was up use the clicky on 1.5?
RE: Why?
# Aug 29 2005 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
I honestly don't know why SoE would do this, "balancing" I'm sure they'd say. But what is it really going to do? I'm a monk and have already replaced my 1.5 with better, and I'm not yet flagged for CoA which of course is required for 2.0. By the time, a member is capable of reaching Anguish should'nt they have better then 1.5 already? This is a bit of redundancy on SoE's part. They're essentially removing a hard earned trophy in order to keep the game 'fair'. As for the effects aren't they both on the same recast timer? I'm surprised they didn’t force us to hand over our 1.0's to begin with.Smiley: oyvey So I'm saying, with all sincerity, that we should be able to keep both as a symbol of what we, our friends, family and guild members have achieved.

Edited, Mon Aug 29 08:02:54 2005
RE: Why?
# Aug 28 2005 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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88 posts
It is because Rogues(and possibly other dual wield classes) could wield both the 1.5 and 2.0 at the same time.
RE: Why?
# Aug 29 2005 at 6:56 AM Rating: Good
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3,128 posts
If you are a rogue who has achieved your 2.0, then you should have already gotten a better weapon along the way for your offhand than the 1.5
RE: Why?
# Aug 30 2005 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
Amen. This is to fix an exploit ppl, chill.

The ppl affected thought they were cheating and getting away with it. They did, for a short amount of time (or long depending on who you are talking to) and grats.

Now happy time is over. Back to having a semblence of balance.

The people complaining in this thread have no idea what they are talking about and are going on 2nd hand info.

I didn't see anyone who did the little happy corpse-loot dance stepping up with a valid defense.
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