Changes to AA Experience

Earlier this week EverQuest Designer Nodyin made a post on SOE's forums about upcoming changes to the way AA experience is gained:

One of the most common topics of discussion on these boards has to do with AAs - gaining them, using them and how many you "need" to be viable in a group or raid setting. As time passes and expansions are released the total number of AAs that are available to each class grows, as does the number of AAs that are considered "core" by each class. Anyone who has played EverQuest for very long can realize how important a few hundred well-spent AA can be for any player of sufficient level. As great as the AA system is, however, it presents an ever growing barrier to new players or current players who might like to try a new class for a different experience or perspective. The hill, to put it simply, is simply too high to climb for many people.
 
To address this we're going to introduce the same type of experience scaling in the AA system that exists with levels. Just like level 1 is a lot easier to get than level 80 is we're going to change how AA experience works so that the first AAs you earn will come faster than the last AA you earn to reach the cap. This change should make it a lot easier for players climbing the levels to gain key AAs and advance to the point that they can interact with friends (new or old) that have more established characters.
 
What we've done is put together a very flexible, data-driven system that we can adjust as expansions are released or in response to changing circumstances. The way the system works is that we'll be able to create point ranges (with a minimum number of AAs earned and a maximum number) that will have a multiplier assigned to it. So you'll get the amount of experience you would have gotten prior to this change, but then that experience is increased by this multiplier.
 
So for AA #XYZ your multiplier might be 2.0. Before the change you would have gotten 500 experience. After the change it would be 500 x 2, or 1000 experience. Simple, right?
 
The higher you go in AA totals the lower the multiplier will be until eventually it will reach the 1.0 mark and AA experience will return to "normal". AA experience is already normalized by level to be equal to the same number of even-con kills no matter what your level is and this system will work with that. No matter where you are in terms of level you'll see the same bonus based on your AA count.
 
Based on the data we collected a few months ago and looking at where we're putting the 1.0 mark the vast majority of players will see a boost in the rate that they earn AAs with those at the low end of the AA count seeing the largest boost. As I mentioned above we're able to nimbly change the shape of the curve and as we release new expansions that push forward the total number of AAs that exist we will be changing the shape of the curve, including the point where AA experience returns to normal. So we'll be attempting to continue to support new players and returning veterans going forward with the AA system.

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Better than the other EQ nerfs..
# Feb 15 2008 at 8:54 PM Rating: Default
I think this EQ nerf is much more sensible than the game destroying nerfs of Ngreth and the other developers. A system that will make lower level and casual players get huge benefits that are still actually earned can only be good for the game.

Most EQ players are long term. Love the challenge of EQ and dont plan on going to any of the "glamour" games which have superior graphics/look but inferior playability and replayability.

So why do the developers keep nerfing that which makes EQ unique?? Didnt they learn from WoW mistake that saw thousands upon thousands of ppl leave that game. No they copied it exactly. Give the casual players who play 1 hour a week the same as the raiders that play 8 hours a day. Dwerium rings and Cultural gear that encourage the plat sellers and buyers to operate and do nothing to stop them. Encourage every toon running around their to "buy" their toon after doing all the Dains to level up. Nerf much loved..difficult..research paths to one very BORING systematic pathway. Bring in soloable gear with ridiculously high stats so that the great zones of the game are no longer worth the effort.

I just wish they would stop catering for the players that rarely play but want the same gear as the people who put in the time. If you want great gear, quit your job and get a divorce so you can earn it like the rest of us.

Better than the other EQ nerfs..
# Feb 19 2008 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I just wish they would stop catering for the players that rarely play but want the same gear as the people who put in the time. If you want great gear, quit your job and get a divorce so you can earn it like the rest of us.


Ummm... sorry but that seems kind of pathetic...
Great Idea!!!!
# Feb 15 2008 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
Seems to me some people like to look at things at a perspective of high end raiding peep that grinded to whatever level. They have been that level and progress to the next lvl cap as each exp is released!!!

That is fine but not all of us has 4-10 hours of grind time a day, but also wants to have some way to achieve higher lvls, and we all know that aa's damn sure help the grind of xp..

I love the way I should feel bad because I want to play the same game you do. I spend the same money you do but I am lacking time! Granted its my fault that I dont have time but if I look at this from a business prospective.

1. if I dont make it fun for all the subscribers then I will loose subscriptions
2. I loose subscriptions I loose R&D money.
3. Equals sub-par expantions and or no exspantions.
4. Death of EQ.

I guess it realy comes to the point that some people live with blinders on.
Seeing only the things they want without being able to look at both sides of the coin.

High end people this isnt about you!! Your hooked your going to play! I hate to say it your easy money.

Its about new blood new money! You know those low level noobs that some of the highend peeps cant stand cause their new. Yes those people! If your a high end player you should want to share your love for a game you have poured a great amount of time and effort into, so it might keep the game going for another 9 years.... WOW what a concept.

Keep the content tough I am truly for that Its the life blood of this game.
But make it palletable for the next generation of peeps that did'nt subcribe when kunark hit the seen. To adventure and progress and maybe just maybe get things a little easier than you did..

P.S. Hug A Noob Today......
Another penalty for the long term player
# Feb 15 2008 at 5:39 PM Rating: Default
This is another blow to the long term EQ player. First step was to remove the benefit of spending endless hours playing (and paying for) raid time to get the best gear. Now the endless hours spent spent grinding aa's ans being able to say that you are maxed is now discounted by the bonus. If you want to 'normalize' the game and allow new players to join and hard core players to be challenged, stop the endless inflation of increasing mob HP and player DPS increase to offset and mob dps increase to offset player AC. That is the barrier to new players getting into the game. Penalizing players that worked hard to have 2k aa's and be the top on their servers by 'giving' it to other players is simply not fair. I put the time in the game and others should not get the same rewards for less effort.
Remedial AAs
# Feb 15 2008 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
This is the worst idea that has come down the SOE pipe in a while! First off, what ever happened to repairing the things that are broken with the game before changing something that is working just fine?! Mob warping, pathing repairs, quest glitches, server stability, Risk VS Reward on zone encounters, etc... There are tons more that can be done to make this game much more enjoyable than handing out AAs to people that already are extremely short on game experience as is, with all the dumbing down of the encounters that used to take some real skill to get past. What ever happened to earning the rewards that you get? And WTH is up with penalizing those of us that are near the end game on AAs?! It is already hard enough to find players that actually know how to get to a particular zone without giving them a TL and CotH to your camp spot. I've spent countless hours learning my way around various zones and find it hard to believe when I've invited that "80 Cleric with 800+AAs" to my group only to find out they can't find their way to The Devastation, or The Hive, or Dreadspire Keep, or any other zone we happen to be raiding / grouping at because they have sat in Thurg doing Dains for the past 6weeks reaching Max. Level.

Why not add some new AAs that are more expensive for the more dedicated gamer. For example: Paladin- Turn Undead / cost 21pts for rk.1, 24pts for rk.2, 27pts for rk.3 (first rank does damage over time, second rank adds snare, third rank adds fear)
Maybe could do the same for Mages and summoned creatures, Druids for animals, etc...
...or...
Add mounts for the various other classes: griffons, drakes, wolves, lions, etc.. I know it can be done, we've all seen the LoN rewards. Just make them cost alot of points and set a minimum number of AA that already needed to be had before qualifying. If you are max level and have a certain number of AA it could be a class defining reward that would set you apart from lesser members of your class. Various class illusions might be great too. Why don't druids get the ability to shape-shift in this game while in most other games / stories they do?

Any number of things could be done to make it more challenging but I hate the idea of making it less challenging. It kind of cheapens the whole experience for me. I love the game and have been playing loyally since early 2000.

You can all begin lynching me for what I believe now...
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 15 2008 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
2cp......
I don't see how people, casual or raid, can see how leveling to 75-80 with minimal AA's is better for any guild vs. grinding out vital AA's. I went down that road before and found out that just because you ARE a higher level toon, only means one thing...You are the 3rd string player that sits and watches while the rest of the team gets to play. Ya, you may be able to get into a high level group or raid, but really....what help are you? As it stands now (current AA exp grind) it does take forever to get those vital AA's, but you are also playing a toon and "learning the ropes" as a certain toon. Don't recall how many times I've been in groups and the MT or healer, and even DPS obviously DIDN'T have the needed AA's for their level.....c'mon...ya can't tell me (i.e.,) a level 75 warrior with 75 AA's is better equipped and more able than a level 65 warrior that has 200 AA's??? Properly spent, the 65 IMHO is going to be MUCH more efficient and able to tank a higher conned mob than the 75 warrior would be. Assuming the 65 spent all avail Def AA's.....hooray for SoE for putting some thought into revamping the AA system, for all the NON-75+ toons that have PLed and have no depth into their character =P
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 18 2008 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
Amen. The sad part is nearly every high end player I have heard partake in a discussion about this wants lvl's..not aa's. Boggles my mind that these people ever got into higher lvl's. Actually no it doesn't, somewhere along the way players actually got aa's as they lvl'ed or they never would have gotten into higher content, but now they just pl everyone else and let them leech xp for a while to catch up on aa's until they can actually help the group/raid.
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 19 2008 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
"c'mon...ya can't tell me (i.e.,) a level 75 warrior with 75 AA's is better equipped and more able than a level 65 warrior that has 200 AA's???"

ABSOLUTELY. 100% TRUE

That 65 war with 200 aa will be sitting in the guildhall or LFG for a 60's pickup group or soloing while that 75 war with 75 aa's will be flagged for Anguish, getting valuable raid exp, off tanking trash mobs and pulling the Hanvar adds off the healers/casters AND earning and getting more loot while he has fun participating with the guild. He will be knocking down all the DODH missions and flagging/flagged for Demiplane of Blood. He will be bustin up the bosses in Sverg and Devastation and Relic.

He will have his 2.0 sword of power and able to hold aggro somewhat.

That 65 war is prevented from flagging because he cannot enter the 69 zone of RSS to get flagged. He 'would' be ate up in Anguish wearing his POP/Elemental armor unless he has raided extensively in GOD Tacvi. (Highly unlikely since that would mean that he enjoyed participating and flagging instead of LFG pickup groups and soloing.)
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 15 2008 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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Loved your tag Mord
AA experience
# Feb 15 2008 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
One of the better ideas SOE has come up with in regards to casual players being able to get their essential AAs without having to spend too terribly long grinding out those points.
I like it
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
Way to go, finally an idea that will be a viable option to the lower level people trying to move up into the higher level groups and raids. With this they will at least be able to earn aa's at a higher pace to do some catching up, or for some play a diff kind of toon and not have to spend hours upon hours just trying to get enough aa's to make it viable to bring along on a raid and not be a hinderance.

Two thumbs up, is my vote on this . . providing it works like they say.
Great change!
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
16 posts
HA HA whispor, not a very wise post man :). they are trying to help the more casual players without hurting the raiders. This change seems very well designed.
So much so
# Feb 15 2008 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Think about it this way, whispor. They will be able to gain those base AA's much faster now since the multiplier will help them catch up. So the hard core raiders/guilds out there will be able to add newer members without having to invest time in bringing them up.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!
aa changes
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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whispor, Eater of Souls wrote:
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!


Hmm. I see it having the opposite effect. It is easier to kill level 60 mobs with low AA in today's casual gear than it is to kill level 80 mobs with low AA in today's casual gear.

This curve scenario makes it much more digestable to hold at 55-61-65 (etc.) for 100-200-300+ aa's than the absolute monotony that scenario is for most players today.

I personally have been holding at 61 grinding AA... but as a necro it is efficient for me (and I am having fun hanging there). I pity the warrior caught between wanting AA and needing to level to be able to put together a group. This change benefits the casual and the alt directly, and everyone (except the pure hardcore soloer with 2K aa already) else indirectly through stronger peers.

If a guild doesn't have a main tank with AA... it's not the fault of the tanks with low AA in the guild. One can always have minimum requirements for app/membership and/or choose to raid targets the force mustered can handle.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
whispor, Eater of Souls wrote:
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!

If a level 80 tank with no AA's wipes on one of your PoP progression raids (which is where your guild is at) you have much BIGGER problems to worry about.

To put it another way, a group of level 80's with no AA's could probably one group the raid mobs you are using a whole raid to kill.

I'm thinking you are ******** for the sake of ********* It's a great change and will help close the gap between the casual player (group or raider) and a hard core player (group or raider).

A guild like yours should actually stand to benefit the MOST from a change like this. YAY for the brilliance of self-marketing your guild!
wtf
# Feb 17 2008 at 4:48 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
If a level 80 tank with no AA's wipes on one of your PoP progression raids (which is where your guild is at) you have much BIGGER problems to worry about.


You suck as a sage, check ur info again. We only raid PoP as a side note. The guild is halfway through DoN atm, and that isn't counting the individual players who raid with other guilds on occasion and have their Anguish/DSK/Demiplane keys/flags. Oh...wait...you dont have to be smart to be wise huh...my apologies.

Quote:
To put it another way, a group of level 80's with no AA's could probably one group the raid mobs you are using a whole raid to kill.


That may be in some cases, however that same grp of lvl 80's are not gonna get xp effectively in zones we group in at lvl 70 +/-. The only way being lvl 80 with no aa's is an option is if the people that pl'ed you to lvl 80 are gonna pl ur aa's as well while you sit on the sidelines with nothing to offer the grp.

Quote:
I'm thinking you are ******** for the sake of ********* It's a great change and will help close the gap between the casual player (group or raider) and a hard core player (group or raider).


I'm thinking you are being a ******* because you dont know any better.

Quote:
A guild like yours should actually stand to benefit the MOST from a change like this. YAY for the brilliance of self-marketing your guild!


WRONG. Whispor's guild and guilds like it are only goin to get minimal benefits from this seeing as how Whipor's players are already required to have 200+ minimum aa's before lvling past 70. This is going to benefit everyone but the people that actually get aa's when they need them (no later than lvl 60, when mobs are not going to give nearly as much xp as the lvl 75-80 mobs pl'ers will be getting xp for) are not going to benefit as much as the high end people that get a wild hair to start another toon, pl them to 80, then park them invis behind their grp in Bloodmoon or the Mansion and get 2 or 3 aa's a kill now that this is started. So like Whispor said, its just going to encourage people to lvl to 80 then get their pl'ing buddies to let them join in a zone like that where they would have been getting half an aa or more per kill in the first place and get their aa's then. Which is all fine and dandy until they start trying to tank or heal in a raid or group, get agro, get one-rounded, get a rezz and heal, rinse, repeat until the clerics are oom or dead from overhealing trying to keep them alive and the raid or group is wiped. YAY for the brilliance of gassy sages.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
I agree. It also seems to me that this will make it a lot easier to hammer out basic AAs before 80. As things stand, no use of xp -- with the sole exceptions of tanks, critical utilities, and godly twinks -- is more efficient then putting that xp on the level bar in terms of improving overall power/advancement. With a 2x or 3x bonus on those first hundred AAs, pausing to fill out basic advancement skills would be far more attractive then it is now.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
Totally agree with VimRazz. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a lvl 80 with 10AA than a lvl 56 with 200AA on any of our raids, any of my exp groups, anything other than sitting in the GH. Not to mention the zone restrictions on several events that FORCE the exclusion of lvl 56 players with a bazillion AA's. I could care less what the class is, ANY class is much better at lvl 80 with few/none aa's and actually participating instead of sitting in the Guild Hall talking smack that their lvl 56 joe is king of the hill and can stand up to any non named mob in nobels causeway.

Participating means playing. If your in a social guild and all you do is socialize with some play time intersperced, then fine. If you are working toward goals and have player friends with goals and work together to help eachother reach those goals, THEN sitting at a 50's lvl and earning AA's wont help you near as much as getting to lvl 80 will.

I am FAR FAR FAR from even considering, much less even thinking about, inviting a lvl 56 toon to join us at any exp grind spot much less any mission/event group in any SOF/buried sea zone. I could freaking care less how many AA's this guy has if hes too low of a lvl. Lvl 80 ppl are always welcome although the possibility exists that they dont fit a role thats needed on a particular mission.

Prior to this change in AA, to me, it was a bad decision to stop gaining lvls at 52 so that you could rack up a couple hundred aa. Being the best lvl 52 is like being the best kindergardner.

:em pat your head
/say very good thats a pretty picture
/say oh what a big boy
/say you are soooo smart

Now, after this goes into effect, burn through 20-50 aa if you want to at whatever lvl then continue to max lvl. My policy is to turn the exp->AA to zero or to 100. Then keep it there until you reach your goal. No sence thinking, well I sorta want some aa but I like exp so I will do 60-40.
wtf
# Feb 17 2008 at 2:58 AM Rating: Default
That is the dumbest effin thing I have ever heard, comparing a lvl 56 to a lvl 80 is like comparing the tanking ability of a wizard to a warrior.

Also, I seriously hope you are not considering inviting a lvl 80 with no aa's to grind or do missions with you anymore than you're considering the lvl 56 with 200+. Unless that is they are a class that will be sitting on their asses the whole time with no chance of gettin agro from a mob, otherwise you may as well take the lvl 56 for all the good it will do you. Most zones a lvl 80 will be raiding/grinding in is gonna be a hell of a lot harder than Icefall, but when max lvl tanks with 16k unbuffed hp but less than 100 aa's get one rounded by mammoths there, they are gonna be a helluva lotta good in a raid or grind spot unless you just want them as cannon fodder or zone decoration.
wtf
# Feb 19 2008 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
"That is the dumbest effin thing I have ever heard, comparing a lvl 56 to a lvl 80 is like comparing the tanking ability of a wizard to a warrior"

My point Exactly. That lvl 56 guy could have spent his time doing exp instead of aa and been lvl 80 by now, but now he is just sitting at lvl 56 with 200 and trying to find a 50's group somewhere.

Of course I would invite a lvl 80 with no aa's to my group. They could always participate and feel like part of the team. We always have to adjust our group pulling and tanking for the makeup of the group. This is normal. Its rare that I am in an optimal group and often its not always six players.

If a rogue,mage,wizard,BL,Ranger,Druid,Monk,Necro,Shaman etc have 'Fewer' than optimal AA's then we just adjust. Gear and skill make up quite a bit of difference. Sometimes without high AA for key players, it means that, that difficult quest gets put on hold and we do something else instead. You just are not going to make it to the top of Mechanomatic Guardian for the Spelunking mission if you dont have a good balanced team.

I have been grouped with excellent DPS classes that played very very well and knew their job/role very good, BUT had very few aa. These were all high-er lvl veteran players who were playing a different class that day or something.

They were NOT lvl 56 and grinding out more than 200 aa's.

AA count is not the end-all be-all must-have-to-survive. Player level, player attitude, and player skill is. Once you acquire good playing skills and good social skills and reach a lvl that the majority of players are at, then you will much much much more easily find groups to play with and things to do.

If you hang around lvl 56 your life will be just that. Relegated to sub-optimal lvl-restricted gear, difficulty in finding groups, difficulty/impossibility in accomplishing the simpler missions out there.

And, probably the most difficult to overcome: the feeling (and resignation) that it would be impossible to catch up to others.

THAT is the issue that the devs are trying to address with this AA change. To REMOVE the feeling that you must stay at a low lvl in order to get more AA's.
holding at a level
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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kirbyramz wrote:
Totally agree with VimRazz. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a lvl 80 with 10AA than a lvl 56 with 200AA on any of our raids, any of my exp groups, anything other than sitting in the GH...


I basically agree with Kirby (including the rest of the quote I snipped). If I had planned to be in a raid guild I would have levelled up versus stopping to smell the AA roses. There isn't much point being in a raid environment if you can't raid with the guild.

I went for the casual "I want xp from this content before I level past it" approach and it works for me, but I have no delusions that I would be useful in raiding anything but Kunark stuff with family guilds.

Being in "Kindergarten" is fine as long as it is fun, otherwise level up till it is fun again.
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