Ouch.......WoW takes a blow to the gut...Follow

I don't care how many zones it has if they're bland and uninteresting. EQ has the largest amount of zones of any MMORPG. Does that make it the best?

I played FFXI and it just felt like EQ-Lite to me. The interface is disgusting, unintuitive (that's what you get for using a mouse and keyboard for an interface designed with a PS2 controller in mind) and takes up half the screen. I couldn't communicate with 70% of the people on my server (and please no "well why didn't you switch servers, blah blah blah" because I should be forced to work AROUND the system to play with people who speak my language), and the whole multiple jobs on one character system just seemed designed around getting you to grind forever.

I was also told there was a way to turn that horrible graphic fuzz off, but I never found out how before I quit. I have a lot of hatred for MMORPGs that do it wrong, having played so many and ending up disgusted with all of them, that a fun MMORPG (to my tastes) like WoW that isn't a gigantic hassle is a breath of fresh air.

Edit: Ack, misspelled unintuitive. Shame on me.

Edited, Tue Jun 15 15:06:27 2004 by JAEFo

*cracks neck* Okay, lets begin, shall we?

1) Whether you said it or not, everything is required to be maxed out in these times of games. Thats how the genre works and for you to apply Everquest law to FFXI law made it sound like thats what was said. Good thing newer MMORPGs are trying their best to break away from this trend because it only leads to frustration.

2) Past Lv 30, a melee without sniper rings is worthless in most people's eyes. Past 30, no expensive mp gear on a mage makes them worthless in most players eyes. Granted, there may be "ok" gear available but a player without the needed stuff will be looked down upon.

3) Why should anybody care about the end-game content when the low game content was lacking to begin with? Crafting, questing and leveling is not content when it comes to FFXI, its a chore. People didn't sign up for chores, they signed up for a game. Unfortunately, by the time a person is almost reaching the end game content, they are too burned out to even continue. I hate how these types of games fail to deliver a good experience when it comes to content in the low game. It seems they only focus on the high game, making the game more focused to those willing to spend hours on end per day rather then the normal guy who just wants to enjoy himself for a hour or 2.

4) You know, this is the major problem with the genre itself. It tries to copy real life so much that it becomes as tedious as real life. BTW, not all MMORPGs follow and will continue to follow the template that most MMORPGs follow. CoH is a good example of a MMORPG that focuses on the "fun" aspect rather then the simulated world that most MMORPGs follow. Granted it does get repetitive with the lack of a few options like crafting and gaining new equipment but its still a excellent example that a "fun" MMORPG can be made.
As for telling him that the genre is not for him, thats for Val to decide. If he decides to leave, that his choice but so far he is hoping for a renewal of the genre just like the rest of us. Why bother trying out one of the current MMORPGs when they are basically the same? City of Heroes is a good idea that shows that the genre can be fun and we are hoping that WoW is a perfection of that idea.

5) Same statements as number 3.

6) Okay, let me make tis clear: We don't want a hobby. We want a game. Its wonderful that you enjoy FFXI as a hobby but telling you the truth, me drawing makes for a better hobby then playing FFXI. In the matter of fact, I do draw ^^

Shameless plug: redmoon.deviantart.com (Been awhile and I need to get more stuff to improve. been lazy lately lol)

Anyways, we want a game that can be enjoyed in short bursts when needed and large bursts when we want it. Thats what we are expecting and as long as they deliver while making it fun, then pretty much all of us will be happy. We are not looking for the most hardcore MMORPG action. We are looking for a MMORPG that plays like a game, not a part time job.

7) To get some numbers straight, the game is loved by 500,000 people worldwide. This doesn't include the numbers of players that have left and those who came in. Also, we're glad you enjoy the game. The fact is, we didn't. There is are plenty of reasons why but it lead to the same result: we either cancelled our accounts or we will be soon.

8) Wonderful, you are comparing a 3 year old game when it comes to content that had 1 expansion out already and another on the way to a game that is still in closed beta, where everything is not revealed and is not even released to the mass market.
Just wanna let ya know that even before its release, WoW packs in over 900 quests while FFXI packs alittle over 500 quests. Just wanted to make that clear ^_~

Edited, Mon Jun 14 21:17:58 2004 by Redmoonxl

Still more then what FFXI offers ^^

I honestly don't know where people keep hearing that Northrend is supposed to go in but it's not, at least not in the initial release. They said a while back that Northrend is NOT intended to be in at launch. So please stop spreading crap about one of the downsides being them not putting in a zone they had no intention of in the first place.

Don't misunderstand me, however, I was rank 5, and I had done quite a few errandboy quests... I can safely say, the movies in FFXI weren't all that great, at least not to me. The quest storylines were, for the most part, a bore.

An assumption on my part, however, looking at the way Blizzard does games, I can pretty safely say that the majority, if not all of the quests will somehow tie into the storyline of the PC you've chosen. Not to say "I created this character, here's it's storyline." More so to say, more of an overlap into the scheme of the entire game. Somewhat like FFXI, however different in the aspect that you don't have to sit there for 5+ hours after you get to a moderately high lv, just so you can gain a lv. Maybe I'm wrong, however WoW seems to have an edge on FFXI in that, then again, for FF Otaku, yeah, it's great, it's just an extended version of every other FF game. Granted I liked the majority of them, I can't be so easily amused as to find killing X mob for X exp for X amount of time just so my character can be strong enough to be able to do anything in the game. Maybe the end game is fun, who knows aside from the people who get there... However, if it imitates the beginning of the game, I'd rather not stick around for it. As you can see, I've deleted my account as FFXI became more of a chore than anything. I didn't have fun in the grind, I didn't want to spend my time making money to just go waste it so I can build on a worthless skill that will never be of benefit to me unless I start up a new job.

Edit* Oh, for everybody saying FFXI is hard... Come on, seriously if that game is hard, what is nearly impossible for you? I wouldn't say it's hard... I'd say it's a game for people with an infinite amount of patience. I stand fairly sure that if the desire had struck me, I could've taught my 6 year old nephew to play FFXI and do a damn good job of it too. More so, a monkey could likely be taught to play it, it's not difficult, it's mundane.

Edited, Tue Jun 15 10:47:57 2004 by Valhallan

Then, I regret not putting enough time into getting to rank 6. =\ However, I had always been told that the magicite missions were some of the -best- storyline parts in FFXI... I guess I shouldn't have looked so much into it, as they failed to amuse me for more than 10 seconds at a time XD

OK, so you act elitist regarding FFXI, and then you post...



and say you were an avid player. Can you REALLY criticize people that didn't enjoy working to the endgame, and claim that they don't know enough to talk about the game, when you did the same thing yourself in Everquest?


You're nothing but a troll and a fanboy.

I wouldn't compare FFXI to any of the other FF games. That's almost as bad as people who compare WoW with Warcraft 3 (or Diablo 2) and say that priests should be able to use bows because the Priestess of the Moon hero in WC3 could. And those people need to die. Horrible, horrible deaths. Different *base types of games* should not be compared.

Edited, Tue Jun 15 16:04:54 2004 by JAEFo

I understand you're not compairing gameplay, but any comparison of any type isn't fair to anyone. They're different kinds of games. I don't complain about Tetris because it doesn't have any cool loot for me to pick up ;)

But if you look up a few posts, you'll see that I mentioned that having to churn through crap to get to an interesting part of a game is unacceptable. WoW is fun right from level 1, and that's the way it should be.

I decided to bust out the old Super Mario Bros. 3 rom for a bit today, and omg I got this l33t Tanooki suit in the sixth world. I so powa now~

Sorry, the Tetris comment made me do it.

First off it seems to me that this person expectations are completely unrealistic, an unstatic mmorpg with a imaginative evolving world that will consistantly change to make things interesting lmfao.

Number 1: Every game follows a system it is a programmed response environment, EQ, SB, DAOC hell every mmorpg follows a pattern which is in reality a treadmill for lvling.

Number 2: AI in every game is constantly evolving YES, but will always remain limited because to totally change a games AI and programmed "Instances" as their called in this post would mean changing the game and thats impossible.

Number 3: Eliminating risk in PVE to ensure even keeled and balanced lvling between classes is a a GOOD thing, the fact that someones even complaining about it amazes me. Because the minute a rogue sees a warlock solo to 60 while their struggling to find a group to hit lvl 30 the complaints start piling up.

Number 4: There is never a giant degree of risk in PVE your facing mobs who will react either , Progammed response A, B ,or C if you can't figure out those responses you are an idiot and should never have quit playing sims.

Number 5: Playing a mmorpg with 1000's of online players and wishing only to find engaging situations with the game AI and npc mobs is an idiotic thing itself. Basically only PVP expierances will continue to be imaginative and creative everytime, because only human beings have the compacity to CREATE new and unplanned "INSTANCES".

Number 6: PVP and SIEGE WARFARE are the only future for MMORPG's, everyone constantly tip toes around this concept but the fact is that every mmorpg will become old and stale once the lvl cap is reached.

Atleast Blizzard has shown enough commom sense and imagination to understand this and make a PVP system inside their normal systems, as well as releasing a FULL pvp server to watch warfare evolve. To assault a games AI and lvling treadmill for being static lol something every game is guilty off is just foolish, and almost as foolish as playing a mmoprg simiply to engage it's AI like a single player RPG.

dacanuk, I infer from comments elsewhere that EQ is the bane of your faith in MMO's, and you champion DAoC, but please don't call it the first to do much of anything. PvP definitely existed in games before DAoC. Notably, the reason most people left or never started playing Ultima Online was because they didn't want to get PKed the instant they set foot out of town.

However, we can agree on this point - this thread is degenerating into pure speculation by people who have played neither EQ2 nor WoW, and are making statements based on half-truths and pre-conceived notions.

I'm still waiting for EQ2 beta so I can write up a fair comparison. Maybe Sony will eventually get their act together and let us try it...or maybe that alone will tell the tale.