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Ouch.......WoW takes a blow to the gut...Follow

#1 May 31 2004 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Bruggsman writes- (he's a WoW beta tester, the My concerns thread)

First I would like to say that World of Warcraft is an excellent game in many ways. I have some concerns about this game. The golden era of mmorpg's is simply over. All the new mmorpg's in development has the same goal. That is to make the game as "newbie" friendly as possible and static. There is really little costumization in all new mmorpg's. They try to prevent power-leveling, kill stealing, griefing. No risk or chance and give you always success.

WoW is in many ways a long singleplayer campaign. Until you get to highter lvls. You can solo almost everything in this game besides instances and elite quests.

The main goal about wow is to make thing better, and blizzard did that pretty well. But the game is pretty much static as you go up in lvls only numbers change, the gameplay doesn't really change beside instances. You can still solo everything, it is still the same collecting X amount for Y person questing. The game doesn't get harder as you go futher in levels. Monsters grow in size, more damage is dealt but still the same thing.

We've already seen 2/3 of the game and the world. Blizzard has now 6 month to finish rest of the game and make end game fun and addictive. Things doesn't look to bright in my opinion. With the delay of the next push really explain that blizzard is behind. The delay simply means less hi-end content because they need to release the game before X-mas. It is going to be interesting to see if Blizzard can live up to there high expectation.

Here is some things I'm already really concerned about. And im not here to beat a dead horse down, but being realistic. I hope blizzard has alot in the upcoming patch :)

We can take an example with Stats in world of warcraft. You earn skill points and you have almost unlimited of them, you will simply always cap them all. So in fact there is absolutely no points in having Stats in this game. Only minor factors has impact on stats like buffs and alchemy.

The World is simply to small, why because there is 40 zones in the game and we have 25 zones completed already. This leave 15 zones for the high-end game. And with 6 month to release there is no way Blizzard could polish more then that before release. It is 100% gurantee that Northrend and Outland will not be ready for release. Blizzard do 3-4 zones a month so the calculation is simple, 15 zones total more. This would give us approx 2-4 lvl 60+ zones.

Currently we have a few instances Dungeons and with 6 month left I would say Blizzard would be able to have circa 15 instance dungeons for release. This leave us again to 2-4 lvl 60+ dungeons.

Almost every item in WoW is currently really static and limited. And with the upcoming auction houses it would be even easier to get your "king's sword of haste" so everyone would run around with the same sword. This game simply lacking of times and item properties.

Questing in WoW, this is fun, but its only fun first time!!! Doing 1000's of quest to get to lvl 60 again will be a pain, and since you cant power-level in WoW or play 16 hrs a day to lvl it would get boring.

Resting system, this is not really to try prevent hardcore gamers to lvl slower but it's newbie/casual gamer love. Since most of the customers is Casual players this is a nice move. But with the currently design it is impossible to powerlevel/twink in WoW since the game is completely quest driven. This is the worst move ever. Because this leave you to "the first char I got to lvl 60" stuck forever.

Many gamers love to make new chars as they play and the game change in balance. But will you do the same 1000's quest over again? As all other games when you first have one high-lvl char it always easy to make a second char. This will not be as easy in WoW.

Monsters: I haven't even seen more then 50 monsters. In almost all zones there is dogs aka "wolfs", murlocs, birds, spiders, gnolls and beside that you did good job on reuse the Race chars for mobs. This game lack on monsters hardly there is even more monsters in TFT.

Within a month we've already completeled 2/3 of the game. The game is simply to easy.

Brugs
The following comes from here:
http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=1728779&P=1&ReplyCount=9#post1728779

the guy is a certified beta tester.

Now, it seems like there is many flaws in the game. I hope that blizzard will get their act together. They will need it.

Now, unless other beta testers comes here and refutes that, I'm beginning to be suspicious...


Edited, Mon May 31 17:37:08 2004 by ZelerianIA
#2 Jun 01 2004 at 2:52 AM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
Quote:
They try to prevent power-leveling, kill stealing, griefing

God forbid MMORPGs make sure that other people can't maliciously ruin your enjoyment of the game.

Quote:
WoW is in many ways a long singleplayer campaign. Until you get to highter lvls. You can solo almost everything in this game besides instances and elite quests.

That's right. You can solo things. Or you can group if you want. What's that? A choice? I HATE CHOICES! FORCE ME TO GROUP! PLEASE!

Quote:
With the delay of the next push really explain that blizzard is behind. The delay simply means less hi-end content because they need to release the game before X-mas.

He's talking out of his *** right here

Quote:
The World is simply to small, why because there is 40 zones in the game and we have 25 zones completed already. This leave 15 zones for the high-end game.

If amount of zones meant quality content, then EQ must be chock full of interesting places crammed with people. Right? Right?

Quote:
Almost every item in WoW is currently really static and limited

Yeah they could use a few more items

Edit: I'm not sure why this last quote bracket won't work. I guess there's a limit on how many quotes you can have in one message? Bleh.

Quote:
Questing in WoW, this is fun, but its only fun first time!!! Doing 1000's of quest to get to lvl 60 again will be a pain, and since you cant power-level in WoW or play 16 hrs a day to lvl it would get boring


When you're doing a quest, you're looking for the things to complete it, and NOT staring at your experience bar waiting for it to move. "Hmm, where's another Defias Bandit, I have to get three more headbands" and not "Only 164 more GenericEnemy05 until I level. Yay." Power-leveling is the tool of satan anyway.

I've been playing WoW for a few days (just managed to sweet-talk a buddy into letting me use his account) and the only thing that matters is that it is FUN. Just plain fun.

Edit: Also, why would you be looking at anything on the battle.net forums? That place is a haven for the damned.

Edited, Tue Jun 1 03:56:13 2004 by JAEFo
#3 Jun 01 2004 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
man, honestly.. all those things this guy is whining about is making me WANT TO PLAY THE GAME EVEN MORE LOL
#4 Jun 01 2004 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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283 posts
I can't claim to know the entire matter, however... I would suspect that with over-all how secretive Blizzard has been about this game and prestige jobs, that there is more that isn't being shown. ie The prestige jobs in general, probably more advanced/elite quests are given once recieving said title. As for the zone thing, I know this may not make sense, as I haven't been a beta tester, but it is possible that Blizzard is actually smart enough to not ruin the experience for their Beta testers by releasing all the content they have/will have.

Then again, maybe I'm just being overly hopeful and looking at this as salvation from FFXI. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
#5 Jun 01 2004 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
Every *fact* the guy says is accurate, but his spin on many of them isn't the way most people perceive them.
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#6 Jun 01 2004 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
Azuarc wrote:
Every *fact* the guy says is accurate, but his spin on many of them isn't the way most people perceive them.


That seems interesting, could you be a bit more precise if I may?

How are the rest of the community perceives it.

Also, just as a note, I went to blizzard forums because thats where the most beta testers are, so I can get an idea of the game.
#7 Jun 01 2004 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
That's right. You can solo things. Or you can group if you want. What's that? A choice? I HATE CHOICES! FORCE ME TO GROUP! PLEASE!
what we can since when? i rarely see anybody looking for groups except for quests and if your that lucky guy who gets one its probly full of idoits. the xp you get from soloing is slower then in a group and soloing is just plain boring. theres also the higher chances of death.
#8 Jun 01 2004 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
As an aside, ZelerianIA did you get your video card problems worked out properly? You don't visit the tech forums that often, so I thought I'd ask here.
#9 Jun 01 2004 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
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469 posts
Quote:
what we can since when? i rarely see anybody looking for groups except for quests and if your that lucky guy who gets one its probly full of idoits. the xp you get from soloing is slower then in a group and soloing is just plain boring. theres also the higher chances of death.

You "rarely see anybody looking for groups except for quests" because that's what you do in WoW. QUESTS! If you're not doing a quest you're not spending your leveling time efficiently, it's as simple as that.

For most quests, soloing works just as well as grouping. Right now (level 16 Rogue) I'm soloing plenty fine and enjoying myself. A death here and there when the only penalty is spending the time running to my corpse isn't ruining my day. Apparently we've been meeting different people, as most groups I've been in aren't full of idiots.
#10 Jun 02 2004 at 2:13 AM Rating: Decent
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526 posts
Oh... umm... lets see... where can i begin....

*copys the entire thread so far into this area*
anything inside of " " was already posted, what is after is my responce.

"First I would like to say that World of Warcraft is an excellent game in many ways. I have some concerns about this game. The golden era of mmorpg's is simply over. All the new mmorpg's in development has the same goal. That is to make the game as "newbie" friendly as possible and static. There is really little costumization in all new mmorpg's. "

Verry little customization eh? i can understand that. you only have about 10 faces, 10 hair styles, 5-6 body skin colors, some facial hair options (jewelry for the females), and some other stuff i cant remember. yea, i guess we got screwed there.



"WoW is in many ways a long singleplayer campaign. Until you get to highter lvls. You can solo almost everything in this game besides instances and elite quests."
And the problem here is... what exactly? I'm begining to despise FFXI because i cant find a team half the time. Yes if you can get a team going things become much easyer, but, how many of blizzards games FORCE you to have a team? warcraft? nope. Starcraft? nope. Diablo 1 or 2? hhmmm nope. The Lost Vikings? erm, ok, you got me there.


"The main goal about wow is to make thing better, and blizzard did that pretty well. But the game is pretty much static as you go up in lvls only numbers change, the gameplay doesn't really change beside instances. You can still solo everything, it is still the same collecting X amount for Y person questing. The game doesn't get harder as you go futher in levels. Monsters grow in size, more damage is dealt but still the same thing."
Compared to FFXI, the monster variety in WoW is at least double maby even triple that of FFXI. the monsters have different color skin!! FFXI doesnt even do that. And Size! another bonus for WoW!

"We've already seen 2/3 of the game and the world. Blizzard has now 6 month to finish rest of the game and make end game fun and addictive. Things doesn't look to bright in my opinion. With the delay of the next push really explain that blizzard is behind. The delay simply means less hi-end content because they need to release the game before X-mas. It is going to be interesting to see if Blizzard can live up to there high expectation."
2/3rd of the game eh? no. Your forgetting everything not inside yet. MMORPGs are Ongoing projects. Untill the game dies, the world lives and grows. So they delay a push, theyve delayed the game several times, but, knowing blizzard, they did it for a reason. All of you should know just as well as i do that Blizzard is one of the highest quality game developers around. They announced the game, they are in beta test, people know its coming out, and as much as we curse under our breath, we will wait as long as possible.

"We can take an example with Stats in world of warcraft. You earn skill points and you have almost unlimited of them, you will simply always cap them all. So in fact there is absolutely no points in having Stats in this game. Only minor factors has impact on stats like buffs and alchemy."
I dont know why a Mage would max out thier strength, or a Warrior max out Spirit... but... if you say so. This skill point system gives players more control then most of the MMORPG games out there. I like the ability to raise my primary attributes a bit and then use the skill points for crafting things.

"The World is simply to small, why because there is 40 zones in the game and we have 25 zones completed already. This leave 15 zones for the high-end game. And with 6 month to release there is no way Blizzard could polish more then that before release. It is 100% gurantee that Northrend and Outland will not be ready for release. Blizzard do 3-4 zones a month so the calculation is simple, 15 zones total more. This would give us approx 2-4 lvl 60+ zones."
And you belive all the zones havnt been announced yet? Besides, why would you need the level 60+ zones on RELEASE day. Someone is going to get to level 60+ in less then 2 days? relax, they have time to finish the higher stuff.

"Currently we have a few instances Dungeons and with 6 month left I would say Blizzard would be able to have circa 15 instance dungeons for release. This leave us again to 2-4 lvl 60+ dungeons."
Look up to the last one.

"Almost every item in WoW is currently really static and limited. And with the upcoming auction houses it would be even easier to get your 'king's sword of haste' so everyone would run around with the same sword. This game simply lacking of times and item properties."
Ok, this much i can give you some credit on. Yes, the items look similar. Models recycled and new skins placed on. But have you played any other MMORPG? Ive only played FFXI, so i dont know how other games do this, but, are any items generated with random stats? do you realize how hard an Auction House system would be with randomized stats? If everything is mostly the same, then you can find that item easyer. Much better then having your "King's Sword of Haste" listed 30+ times because each one has one or two different #s on it.

"Questing in WoW, this is fun, but its only fun first time!!! Doing 1000's of quest to get to lvl 60 again will be a pain, and since you cant power-level in WoW or play 16 hrs a day to lvl it would get boring."
You complained earlyer about the Power Leveling? now you want it back?! Quests are fun yes, ive done a couple of them a few different times, granted it was because there were other people going to do the quest i already finished and was going to help them, but, i still did it. And it was because i knew where to go. Quests may not be as fun the second time around, but, they are no where near as frustraiting.

"Resting system, this is not really to try prevent hardcore gamers to lvl slower but it's newbie/casual gamer love. Since most of the customers is Casual players this is a nice move. But with the currently design it is impossible to powerlevel/twink in WoW since the game is completely quest driven. This is the worst move ever. Because this leave you to "the first char I got to lvl 60" stuck forever."
theres that 'powerleveling' thing again... The quest system is probably the reason for the rest system. You can do multiple quests and still not have to worry about your rest state. its when you just go out for fighting everything in sight that isnt a quest mob that you need to be worried about your rest state. Now, what reason does anyone have to go kill something thats not a quest monster? a few reasons actually. 1: They dont know the monster could be for a quest? 2: havnt activated the quest for it yet. 3: *Gasp* the monster isnt for a quest and you actually want experiance!? 4: *GASP* You want to just farm items to sell?! Say it aint so!

"Many gamers love to make new chars as they play and the game change in balance. But will you do the same 1000's quest over again? As all other games when you first have one high-lvl char it always easy to make a second char. This will not be as easy in WoW."
With 8 differnt starting races, you shouldnt do the same quests back to back. usually the second character is of a differnt race (unless a mule). You start one character in the Horde faction, and another in the Alliance faction, i highly doubt that the monsters in each area are EXACTLY the same. they might ask for the horde "bring me 6 of this item" and for the alliance "bring me 6 of these items" but the # will probably be the only similar thing there.

"Monsters: I haven't even seen more then 50 monsters. In almost all zones there is dogs aka "wolfs", murlocs, birds, spiders, gnolls and beside that you did good job on reuse the Race chars for mobs. This game lack on monsters hardly there is even more monsters in TFT."
One thing about a race of monsters is that they tend to look the same. usually differnt skin tone depending on area, different body armor, different size as well. sorry that dissapoints you. More monsters could be hiding in the trees, underground, or even in the water, the world isnt fully explored yet... more will show thier ugly faces.

i agree with a lot JAEFo has to say. actually the entire post. /clap.


NBKNAS: Thats great and probably one of the main things to notice about these games. Not everyone likes these kind of games. Some things appeal to some people that others despise. Keep an open mined, and you will find something you like. something like what Azuarc said.


Saturos: "what we can since when? i rarely see anybody looking for groups except for quests and if your that lucky guy who gets one its probly full of idoits. the xp you get from soloing is slower then in a group and soloing is just plain boring. theres also the higher chances of death."
Right, some people are clueless, some know thier stuff. Its better to be able to choose if you want the team or be a hermit, only showing yourself in the trade channel and main citys.


JAEFo again:
""You "rarely see anybody looking for groups except for quests" because that's what you do in WoW. QUESTS! If you're not doing a quest you're not spending your leveling time efficiently, it's as simple as that.

For most quests, soloing works just as well as grouping. Right now (level 16 Rogue) I'm soloing plenty fine and enjoying myself. A death here and there when the only penalty is spending the time running to my corpse isn't ruining my day. Apparently we've been meeting different people, as most groups I've been in aren't full of idiots. ""

I havnt had many idiots in teams i go into, they are there occasionally, but, a lil helping hand goes a long way. contrarry to popular belife quests are NOT the ONLY thing you do in the game. Go craft, go fish, go farm go explore. have fun. meet people, play the game how you want to play it. You dont have to do quests if you dont want to. sure, some of them give cool items, or in game cash and always exp, but, if you dont want to keep taking on titles such as: "package boy" "collector" or "Assassin" then make up your own! turn yourself into "Fisher" "Clother" or something else!

that should be enough for now...
#11 Jun 02 2004 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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130 posts
i miss taking my 59 wizard's equiptment in EQ and slapping on my 15 necro ; ; DOWN WITH LVL RESTRICTED ITEMS.. im done :) actually this is sounding alot like FFXI lot of quests/missions are oriented into the game. But i probably wont play another online rpg untill vanguard of heros comes out ^^.
#12 Jun 02 2004 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
CloakedStranger the Wise wrote:
As an aside, ZelerianIA did you get your video card problems worked out properly? You don't visit the tech forums that often, so I thought I'd ask here.


Yes , yes, thank you very much, in fact, It worked out so well that I have no time to visit the tech forum anymore...lol

Joking aside, I hooked the card with the power supply and it worked fine. However, it seems that 300 w isn't enough for a PS with a Geforce Fx Ultra 5950...so I ordered a shiny new 550 w power supply, and I'm waiting to install it.

All of your help was amazing, thank you again.


EDIT:

in reply to TARTESK : Although your compatrison is right on the money between FFXI and WoW, we have to understand that FFXI will not be the main compatition here, it will be EQ2.

The original EQ made what MMORPG are today, and I don't expect much less from the second. So, even if FFXI forces you to group, if EQ2 doesn't, then its not an advantage in WoW favor....

its my view on it anyway.

Edited, Wed Jun 2 10:01:46 2004 by ZelerianIA
#13 Jun 02 2004 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
The Honorable ZelerianIA wrote:
CloakedStranger the Wise wrote:
As an aside, ZelerianIA did you get your video card problems worked out properly? You don't visit the tech forums that often, so I thought I'd ask here.


Yes , yes, thank you very much, in fact, It worked out so well that I have no time to visit the tech forum anymore...lol

Joking aside, I hooked the card with the power supply and it worked fine. However, it seems that 300 w isn't enough for a PS with a Geforce Fx Ultra 5950...so I ordered a shiny new 550 w power supply, and I'm waiting to install it.

All of your help was amazing, thank you again.



No prob. I was just checking in also because I'm picking up a new power supply unit myself. But mine is only 450w. I'd install yours for you, but I don't feel like uprooting from Toronto to fly to whereever to install it.

Piece of advice though, keep your drives unplugged from the system when you power up for the first time. Just in case the unit is defective. You don't want it blowing your hard drive to kingdom come.

Good luck!
#14 Jun 02 2004 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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6,678 posts
Alright, I'll do what Tartesk did. Keep in mind, I'm an EQ player, and while I love Square games, have never touched FFXI.


"First I would like to say that World of Warcraft is an excellent game in many ways. I have some concerns about this game. The golden era of mmorpg's is simply over. All the new mmorpg's in development has the same goal. That is to make the game as "newbie" friendly as possible and static. There is really little costumization in all new mmorpg's. They try to prevent power-leveling, kill stealing, griefing. No risk or chance and give you always success."

I can understand his point. The game plays out pretty much the same for everyone. Get quest here, do it there. Maybe farm some tradeskill supplies or get a group to do a specific quest. The game tries to ensure you can't level excessively quickly through outside help via the rest system and the way exp is distributed with tapped mobs. The tapping system prevents kill stealing to some effect. Two-thirds of the posts on the WoW forums are about how someone is being griefed, or someone complaining about how an anti-grief policy is restricting their gameplay. Death is not much of a penalty, you have very little to lose and there isn't a whole lot that varies from fight to fight in the long run. No, there isn't much variety.
But what is it the writer wants, exactly? A lot of the things he's complaining about are the checks and balances that keep things fun for people who want a game that isn't full of hooligans and hardcore PvP fanatics. Notwithstanding that, the end-game material is not done, so all there is right now is the level grind, and maybe some tradeskilling on the side.


"WoW is in many ways a long singleplayer campaign. Until you get to highter lvls. You can solo almost everything in this game besides instances and elite quests."

I will agree with this point to some effect. When I first started playing, I called the game "Morrowind with other people around." And often those other people were standing in the way of me finishing my quest because we were fighting for spawns. But if you learn a little cooperation and teamwork, it makes the game a lot more enjoyable, and many quests go by a lot faster. And yes, the game is partially in favor of the casual player in that they don't have to spend an hour looking for the perfect group to go exp in the Planes.


"The main goal about wow is to make thing better, and blizzard did that pretty well. But the game is pretty much static as you go up in lvls only numbers change, the gameplay doesn't really change beside instances. You can still solo everything, it is still the same collecting X amount for Y person questing. The game doesn't get harder as you go futher in levels. Monsters grow in size, more damage is dealt but still the same thing."

And if the game drastically changed into something you didn't like, would you want that? Many people who got to the "endgame" of EQ were turned off by the aspect of raiding. Most adapted and grew to like it, but there are some people who just couldn't stand it. This sounds to me like a whine at everything that is RPG.


"We've already seen 2/3 of the game and the world. Blizzard has now 6 month to finish rest of the game and make end game fun and addictive. Things doesn't look to bright in my opinion. With the delay of the next push really explain that blizzard is behind. The delay simply means less hi-end content because they need to release the game before X-mas. It is going to be interesting to see if Blizzard can live up to there high expectation."

Blizzard never moves quickly. When they say 3 months from now, they really mean 12. This game will not be done any time soon, simply because it has the Blizzard label on it. Anyone who doesn't know Blizzards reputation for being slow doesn't play games.
Two-thirds of the game is a debatable topic. We've seen two-thirds of the zones, but not all of them are complete and not all of them are completely available. There will be some high-end content within the zones we already have. And that means the rest of the game is high-end content, which is good because once you smack your head on the treadmill ceiling, you want to have plenty of places to go.


"We can take an example with Stats in world of warcraft. You earn skill points and you have almost unlimited of them, you will simply always cap them all. So in fact there is absolutely no points in having Stats in this game. Only minor factors has impact on stats like buffs and alchemy."

I have to agree with point. Skill points are a sore point for me, since all they really do is slow down your ability to learn tradeskills. In terms of gaining stats per level, stats are kinda moot. They are not, however, completely useless, as this is where differences of equipment come in. As a priest, I specifically go out of my way to look for items that have bonuses to spirit on them, because it ups my mana regen.


"The World is simply to small, why because there is 40 zones in the game and we have 25 zones completed already. This leave 15 zones for the high-end game. And with 6 month to release there is no way Blizzard could polish more then that before release. It is 100% gurantee that Northrend and Outland will not be ready for release. Blizzard do 3-4 zones a month so the calculation is simple, 15 zones total more. This would give us approx 2-4 lvl 60+ zones."

I don't know where the poster has in his head that the game WILL be out by December. Furthermore, the zones that exist now are the zones that were out as of the start of this push, which has been in effect for two months. Blizzard has stated they already have 5 or 6 zones ready or nearly ready to add. And that figures into there being 2-4 level 60+ zones...how? If the level cap was thrown out, I could maybe get to level 45 in a week with existing material, and I could ultimately get much higher than that. There will be maybe half of the remaining zones to get to the cap, and then there will be the zones we have for cap and guess what? Any zones made in the future will probably be related to max level stuff - the beginning of Everquest had no high end content. You just hit level 50, and you were essentially done. With the first expansion, it was now level 60 and still not much to do. And yet people continued to play throughout those first two years.


"Currently we have a few instances Dungeons and with 6 month left I would say Blizzard would be able to have circa 15 instance dungeons for release. This leave us again to 2-4 lvl 60+ dungeons."

I disagree. I think this is where Blizzard will place a lot of their emphasis on the high-end game. Anyone with half a brain cell would assume that this is where they expect capped players to spend a lot of their time playing in groups and "supergroups."


"Almost every item in WoW is currently really static and limited. And with the upcoming auction houses it would be even easier to get your 'king's sword of haste' so everyone would run around with the same sword. This game simply lacking of times and item properties."

Ok, this guy just labeled himself as a bnet player with that one. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But Diablo players keep forgetting that this isn't Diablo.
Items are not randomly generated in the sense of the prefix/suffix system Diablo used. There is a finite number of them. And there aren't a huge number of properties on the items because (a) there doesn't need to be, (b) Blizzard is still probably testing what they plan on having, (c) this is still not the high-end game and the super-neat effects aren't going to be on low-level items, and (d) there aren't going to be silly effects like "+36% gold from monsters" and "+25% chance of open wounds." There aren't many stats in general, and items that specifically augmented a skill in Diablo that I didn't have just served to **** me off that I thought I was being jypped. (sp) The item system, in it's fledgling status, is fine the way it is.


"Questing in WoW, this is fun, but its only fun first time!!! Doing 1000's of quest to get to lvl 60 again will be a pain, and since you cant power-level in WoW or play 16 hrs a day to lvl it would get boring."

So what you're saying is...you can't instantly have a second character of max level? Aw, shucks.
If you really care about playing a new character, you will do it. It's not that horrible, I'm going through things in less than half the time with an alt I started, and there are plenty of quests in zones that I didn't go to the first time around that I'd like to get to see. And that's just within my faction. Don't forget that there are very few quests that both Horde and Alliance can do, so it's really like having two campaigns in the game. (Just like Warcraft 1&2.)


"Resting system, this is not really to try prevent hardcore gamers to lvl slower but it's newbie/casual gamer love. Since most of the customers is Casual players this is a nice move. But with the currently design it is impossible to powerlevel/twink in WoW since the game is completely quest driven. This is the worst move ever. Because this leave you to 'the first char I got to lvl 60' stuck forever."

This person just wants to be able to play 15 alts at max level. Sorry, if you want to have a level 70+ Barb to go with your level 85 Sorc, you can't just toss him all those nifty melee items and have a high-level party with him through a bunch of Bloody Foothills runs.


"Many gamers love to make new chars as they play and the game change in balance. But will you do the same 1000's quest over again? As all other games when you first have one high-lvl char it always easy to make a second char. This will not be as easy in WoW."

This person has clearly not played an MMORPG. And yet...the game is even MORE static in Diablo. You have to go through the same places, optimally you go kill in the same zones, and try to get the same items with the same perfected character builds as everyone else. At least in WoW, there are many different quests, and you will not do them all. Ever. I probably haven't even done a quarter of the ones there are at present with my main.
I'm also willing to bet this person plays a horde character. Three of the four horde races get funneled into the same zone after they leave their newbie area, and end up doing the same things. This is a topic of player complaint, and Blizzard is looking into this.


"Monsters: I haven't even seen more then 50 monsters. In almost all zones there is dogs aka 'wolfs', murlocs, birds, spiders, gnolls and beside that you did good job on reuse the Race chars for mobs. This game lack on monsters hardly there is even more monsters in TFT."

I have to agree with this. There is constantly just the same character models over and over again. He forgot a few monster types, but he's pretty well named 80% of the mobs in the game right there.


"Within a month we've already completeled 2/3 of the game. The game is simply to easy."

No, within a month, you've completely 2/3 of the levels on one character who has certainly not done all the quests available to you. If getting to 60 is all that matters to you, and you only intend to do it once, then yes, you've completed 2/3 of the game already.
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#15 Jun 02 2004 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,852 posts

Sounds to me like the game is geared toward people who like things simple.

Don't get me wrong, there is a good side to that. I currently play (and love) FFXI. It's challenging, and tough, but also very rewarding. I think that the Blizzard crowd likes easy games. Diablo II was SO easy. I soloed my way to L80 in 3 weeks....

... Then I realized the formula behind Blizzard RPGs - you get stronger, the mob gets stronger, you get stronger, the mob gets stronger, repeat, repeat, repeat.

People criticize FFXI because it's not easy, and takes a considerable amount of time and effort to get to high levels. I think that the people who are gonna buy WoW are looking for quick fun, and to be "UB3R" and "L337" cause, as I've read, nothing in WoW is hard to attain.

Nevertheless, I'm definitely gonna give WoW a try when it comes out.
#16 Jun 02 2004 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
Azuarc wrote:


I don't know where the poster has in his head that the game WILL be out by December..


He took it here, Blizzard has made it official:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=21&mid=1085881839212574173&num=17
#17 Jun 03 2004 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
umm barely any MMORPG has this custimization thing because... well thats how MMORPG's work

Soloing its good but to much in large bundles = bad games. As much as i despised having a forced group in FFXI at the same time soloing all the times makes for boredom occasionally (games like Lineage 2 and the such)

Lol he contradicted him self when he goes im glad they stopped Powerleveling. Then he goes how am i gonna get a second char high without things like power leveling lol.

no he wasnt talking out of his a$$ right there because if you look he has a good point because if they pushed it back it means they are not prepared. But they are gonna want it out before Christmas so it does risk being gimped of completion to the best of its abilities

ummm zones there is good to have alot. Right now if onnly 40 are planned that means u can explore more than half of the game at like levels 15-20.

mobs. This is IMPORTANT to a VIDEO game no matter what people say. You dont want to fight the same mob from level 1 at level 50+ FFXI did a horrible job of this even though the diehard fans say "It was designed for the PS2 in japan they just blessed us with the PC version" if the mobs change then its a good thing. If they do the same things its a bad thing.


The people that are fighting him tooth and nail seem like die hard fans or people that have only played like 1 MMORPG in their life and never got to the medium-high end of games. You cant compare this game to only FFXI for reasons below and doing so only makes you look stupid saying things like "The world is twice or triple the size of FFXI" and saying that its a great game because of that. It may be, but if you have only played FFXI and it is only bigger than that then how can you make a decent comparison? Some MMORPG dont even have zones like Lineage 2. It doesnt mean that the world is small because by far the world is vast. Zones mean nothing. Its the size and the look of the zones that mean something. Maybe you should look on the other side of things before immediatly jumping to the defense of your favorite games. You yourself JAEFo said that you had only been playing for a few days. Of course a new game that you had been waiting for is gonna seem fun to you.

alot of comparins seem to be with FFXI. They are new to the MMORPG but even though i quit i can say its quite good for a first attempt at an MMORPG with only a few, but MAJOR problems.
#18 Jun 03 2004 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
**
526 posts
Pooparu: you are right when you say that we seem to be comparing it quite a bit to FFXI. I compare it to FFXI only because that is the only other experiance i have in an MMORPG. I'm going by what i know. even if what i know is very little. I know FFXI has this, and WoW does that, is one better then the other? Not in my mind. People in my LS for FFXI keep asking me which one is better... my only reply to this is "Its beta, there are bugs that need to be worked out. ask me later." i say this 5-6 times a day. Its when people ask me "What do you like about both games" that i can talk for hours. Questing in WoW is funner to me only because you gain exp from the quests. thats a big plus to me and gives some incentave to do the quests. Crafting i enjoy more in WoW as well because its a "Never Fail" craft. Although i disagree with that, i like it. I dont craft in FFXI because i dont have the funds, nor do i like the fact that i could fail. But, failure is a part of life and should be in that. No one ever makes everything right every single time right off the bat. it takes practice. After a while, yes, you can make said item with your eyes closed and another item you have to have special glasses that act like a magnifying glass so you can see what the hell your doing and you still ***** up. I do plan on taking up crafting later, but i still dont even know what craft to take up. I hear that you can bring only a few trade skills to a certain point and nothing can go higher then that. In WoW you can eventually max out every single craft in the game if you felt like it (and i just might if i ever get the chance).

Any video game is not made for everyone. People like challenges, people like easy rides, one person may like something that another person despises. Its a part of life, if you dont like it, dont go near it. you could always try the old fashioned approach and ***** moan and groan about something untill someone changes it, but now, that person over there doesnt like it... its a never ending cycle.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
#19 Jun 12 2004 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
This sounds like something a person from a POTIMEB flagged guild from EVerquest would say. Yea heaven forbid a normal person who don't spend all day playing games might be able to figure out and enjoy a game.

#20 Jun 12 2004 at 11:41 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,430 posts
I know I may be beating a dead horse but I can't resist. *kicks the horse for good measure*

Quote:
alot of comparins seem to be with FFXI. They are new to the MMORPG but even though i quit i can say its quite good for a first attempt at an MMORPG with only a few, but MAJOR problems.


I agree with the point that the game is being compared to FFXI. I also think that there should be also compared to Everquest. Why? Because FFXI and Everquest are the two big dogs of the MMORPG field currently. Why not compare it to Dark Age of Camelot or Anarchy Online? Simply because they are not as popular. If you are the top dog of anything and someone is trying to topple you, comparisons will be made.
Also, comparing WoW to EQ2 is really not a good idea because the game has yet to enter beta testing. Granted, it has beautiful graphics and voice acting but the game has yet to even touch beta. When beta testing for EQ2 starts and give people a chance to experience it, then we can begin comparing it.

As for the original poster (The person that wrote of his experiences, not ZelerianIA), it sounds like he is set in his ways in terms of what a MMORPG should run like, not to mention that it sounds like he just tried to rush to lv 60. I seriously doubt that any person would be 2/3 complete with a game from this genre within 1 month. In that respects, yes he is talking out of his *** especially since the game is not even completely done yet. Sorry but his crediblity to me is seriously lacking. In the matter of fact, he should be doing what a beta tester SHOULD be doing, which is to enjoy the world and check for problems, not breeze through to the high levels.

On a side note about MMORPGs.
Let me just say that I hate it when someone should dictate the way a video game genre should be runned. Innovation is the key for things like MMORPGs to survive. What would happen if all action games are the same? How about adventure games? Hell, even sport games differ from each other.
One of the main problems that Bruggsman mentioned off the bat in his post was that the new MMORPGs are becoming too newbie friendly. My thoughts on this issue is this: a game supported by simply hardcore fans will not survive. What's the point if you attract 500,000 players but only managed to keep half that number? Plenty of people have bad experiences with MMORPG and if they play a certain game that was too much for them, word of mouth will travel. When many negative things are mentioned about a game, not many people will attempt to even bother.
Blizzard sees a market where there are plenty of casual gamers that are eager to get a chance to play this genre at their own pace and attempting to use that to their advantage. This is a landmark MMORPG simply because it focuses on different aspects of the genre rather then just one area. Their goal is to make everything perfect but in the same time fun for those who may not have 8 hours to play.
What am I trying to say? It all comes back to this: Blizzard is taking a big risk with a genre they have never done before and in the same time focusing on things that the genre usually ignored. If people at the end of the day are not happy with it, then so be it. Whats fun for them may be boring for others. Until the game comes out, we really can't make a clear judgement on it. In the meantime, lets all just play Battlefiald Vietnam and napalm each other into happiness. ^^



Edited, Sun Jun 13 00:43:36 2004 by Redmoonxl
#21 Jun 14 2004 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
First off let me say that I was an avid EQ player and sense then I have moved onto FFXI. The only experience I have playing WoW is over a friends house on his char that is somewhere in the 30's. Anyways, I would just like to pointout something about the people who are talking bad on it(ffxi). First off we have: Valhallan Scholar, lv53drk/war or /thf post 60, im guessing. All in all not a bad combination, but still not even lv60. Bud, your a lowbie and I would say you've only experienced 40% of what the game has to offer. As for the other 2: CloakedStranger the Wise
Sage, Tartesk Scholar. Both of you both appear to be total noobs; having poor race selection, and severely under-lvl'd subjob's. So no sh*t your not going to like FFXI, and I would most likely /laugh had I ever seen you in any PT's I was in. All it looks like to me is that your a few people that want to be "uber" without putting the time in and from what I've seen and read WoW will give you just that. If im going to put in immense amounts of time into a game I play then I would like it to show (lv70-75 is clearly un-reachable by the casual gamer, also items such as vermillion cloak, peacock charm, etc). Casual game players should have their "casual games", which seems to be exactly what blizzard is giving you, but please don't talk badly on a multi-continent MMORPG with 1mil+ suscribers simply because you want an easier game (wow and ffxi really aren't even in the same league).

btw. im a lv71BRD/35WHM on cerberus server, at the time of this post.
#22 Jun 14 2004 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,678 posts
So, Indoki, what you're saying is that if you don't max out everything, and don't dedicate your life to a game, you don't deserve to comment on how you couldn't stand to see things through to the end?

Some Everquest players couldn't stand raiding. They got to level 60, said hmm gee now what? And they essentially stopped playing, or started a new character. They didn't become super-uber, or go to all the nifty raid zones so they could **** off for 2 hours for a 1 minute attack on some boss, that wipes because a third of the people fell asleep in that time.

The truth is that some MMORPGs are *BORING*. I stuck with Everquest for 3 years. I went through PoTime and all that fun business. I have well over 350 AA points. I have every right to talk about Everquest. And I know how it would look if somebody came up and said how awful the game was, and then posted proudly in their sig that they were a level 54 erudite SK. I might criticize that they're level 54 and say that they've never been to the high end areas, but y'know what? The pre-60 game is as much Everquest as the "endgame" is, and if they were smart enough to be able to tell just how pointless the game was without wasting three years of their life playing it like I did, then props to them. I had some good times, yes, but ultimately I was just wasting time and staring blankly at my ever-crack. It would be over-pretentious of me to laugh at them for playing an Erudite SK, which of course nobody plays because it's a stupid race/class combination.

You call yourself an "avid EQ player" with no mention of those credentials, which makes me wonder...might I be able to pick you apart the same way?
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
#23 Jun 14 2004 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
**
283 posts
Quote:
First off we have: Valhallan Scholar, lv53drk/war or /thf post 60, im guessing. All in all not a bad combination, but still not even lv60. Bud, your a lowbie and I would say you've only experienced 40% of what the game has to offer. As for the other 2: CloakedStranger the Wise
Sage, Tartesk Scholar. Both of you both appear to be total noobs; having poor race selection, and severely under-lvl'd subjob's. So no sh*t your not going to like FFXI, and I would most likely /laugh had I ever seen you in any PT's I was in. All it looks like to me is that your a few people that want to be "uber" without putting the time in and from what I've seen and read WoW will give you just that.


Lowbie... Yet, I can safely say, I experienced most of what the game has to offer. You call it 40%, I call it something like 90%. You sit in Jeuno for awhile, looking for a party, or you go out to Qufim and farm. You buy all the optimal gear for your lv, you get passed over for a different person with gear that is inadequate for their lv. Why? Because some people just don't understand how to do their job. Oh, by the way, I was using a Bone scythe +1 or Glorious sword in party settings, depending on what was needed. I also used a Valkyrie's Mask, two sniper rings, a life belt, Brigandine (yeah, lv 45 gear, I know, however the +DEX was too good to pass up for something that looks flashy and is in all purposes worthless to a DRK provided the tank knows how to do their job) RK mufflers, Chaos Sollerets, and RS breeches (for lack of any other beneficial gear at that lv)

So, what does FFXI have to offer? Hm... Crafting, boring as hell, and a complete waste of money in the beginning. Lvling? No thanks, I get tired of waiting for groups. Farming? Yeah, I've done enough of that to last a long, long time. You say you're so high and mighty because you're lv 71? I say good for you, if I had been a BRD, I could've been lv 75, so what? BRD and other back-up classes don't appeal much to me, that's not the type of person I am, and definitely not the way I'd like to play a game.

So, you manage to get to lv 75, what do you do then? You go to Dynamis, get your a$$ handed to you by a group of incredibly tough monsters, de-lv, do it again. All for what? So you can be "ub3r 1337?" Don't misunderstand, I play games to enjoy myself, not get completely annoyed by having the incredible ignorance of 12 year old kids and basic imbeciles shoved into my face.

You say that everything will probably be handed to somebody in WoW.. That's a possibility, I can't claim to know the answers, I can only speculate that there's a good possibility that the difficultly level of the game may be increased. At any rate, I prefer not to rely on somebody I don't know/don't care to know/don't like. If I wanted to do that, I'd go volunteer at the Salvation Army. Do not misconstrue what I've said here, in no way am I saying the entire world is populated by idiots and inbreds... I'm just saying, people that can't even spell "you" or "are" annoy me. I have made it a point in my life not to associate with imbeciles, and I intend to keep it that way.

Edit* As an aside... I dislike repetition, it bores the hell out of me. FFXI was so static, I could've made macros for the duration of any party I was in, had SE allowed macros to do so. Follow to the exp site, set it to auto-macro. ctrl+1* *F-8* *ctrl+a* /ja "Berserk" <me> /ma "Absorb-AGI /wait 9 /ma "Absorb-VIT /wait 9 *Ctrl+2*
/p Refresh please /wait 15 /p Thank you /ma "Absorb-STR* /wait 30 /wait 30 /p Wow, that was cool. *Party member 1* omgz wut wuz!? /p Whatever. *ctrl+1* Rinse, repeat, ad nauseum, die of boredom.

Or, I could always go quest... Yay... I get to spend 2 or more hours of my time reading something that may or may not be half-way entertaining... In the end, since I'm lv XX and the quest is suited for my lv, I get an item that is 15 lvs too low to be of use to me... Yay!

Edited, Mon Jun 14 15:15:15 2004 by Valhallan
#24 Jun 14 2004 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
indoki wrote:
First off let me say that I was an avid EQ player and sense then I have moved onto FFXI. The only experience I have playing WoW is over a friends house on his char that is somewhere in the 30's. Anyways, I would just like to pointout something about the people who are talking bad on it(ffxi). First off we have: Valhallan Scholar, lv53drk/war or /thf post 60, im guessing. All in all not a bad combination, but still not even lv60. Bud, your a lowbie and I would say you've only experienced 40% of what the game has to offer. As for the other 2: CloakedStranger the Wise
Sage, Tartesk Scholar. Both of you both appear to be total noobs; having poor race selection, and severely under-lvl'd subjob's. So no sh*t your not going to like FFXI, and I would most likely /laugh had I ever seen you in any PT's I was in. All it looks like to me is that your a few people that want to be "uber" without putting the time in and from what I've seen and read WoW will give you just that. If im going to put in immense amounts of time into a game I play then I would like it to show (lv70-75 is clearly un-reachable by the casual gamer, also items such as vermillion cloak, peacock charm, etc). Casual game players should have their "casual games", which seems to be exactly what blizzard is giving you, but please don't talk badly on a multi-continent MMORPG with 1mil+ suscribers simply because you want an easier game (wow and ffxi really aren't even in the same league).

btw. im a lv71BRD/35WHM on cerberus server, at the time of this post.


I invite you to kiss my ***. I don't want to be 'uber' or any BS like that. I simply dislike some aspects about the game. Don't ever think of telling me that I can't play a game because I'm a casual gamer. I, unlike you it seems, have a life and I'm kind of happy about it. I'm not going to sit in the game for hours upon hours trying to level up to 75 with players like you in there. I never denied FFXI was a good game. It's simply not the game I'm looking for. So please talk sh*t somewhere else.
#25 Jun 14 2004 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
**
469 posts
Blizzard always seems to remember what a lot of other developers (MMORPG devs especially) have forgotten. And that is that it's a game. It's supposed to be fun. Why would I want to play a game that feels like a chore, where I log on and sit in the same place for hours killing the same mob over and over to gain a single level, only to repeat the process again for the next gazillion levels.

Or god forbid, Everquest, where it takes hours to even get READY to do something much less actually accomplish anything. Yay! Raids!
#26 Jun 14 2004 at 3:28 PM Rating: Default
Well just posting this as a follow-up to some of the comments that I thought I should address. First off is Azuarc, I never said that you MUST max out everything to be good. I take it that you don't play FFXI, however if you did, you would realize that having a subjub at half your main's level is pretty much required and looked at very "noobly" by almost anyone if you don't. As for the gear, yea ultra-high-end gear will make you slightly stronger, however there is average-good gear that is much much easier to obtain and 99% of the time will get you by just fine. I would never insist that someone without 5million gil into there char. leave my PT. Anyways, I should have elaborated more on EQ, personally, i didn't like it all that much and quit when PoP came out. So if there's alot I missed /flame <me>. I moved over to daoc (50healer,50war - midgard | 50ranger: rank7, 50ns:rank8, 50ward - merlin) at that point. Now there's Valhallan Scholar, great you had good gear, gj.. . However you cannot talk about any of the end game things, because you have not been there (dynamis, gardens, genkei 5, missions +, etc.). Had you decided to take you char. higher you would see exactly what I'm talking about, if you don't *shrug thats your loss. But, you say you don't like lvl'ing, crafting, farming, etc.... maybe MMORPG's aren't for you then pal, because thats 90% of what any of them is. You might wanna try a new genre heh. Then we have the great CloakedStranger the Wise(the Wise LOL) anyways, I'm not saying that you can't play the game because your a casual gamer, as there is tons of content pre-60 and none of the super expensive items are absolutely needed. However if your going to play an hour 1 or 2 days in the week and maybe 5 on the weekends, I would feel very cheated, that you had the same char. lvl and gear as me for putting in countless hours. I like the whole no life thing though. I think I'm doing quite good, I'm in college for engineering, have a gf, and actually live in a frat, FFXI is a hobby for me, whatever though, anyone could say anything over a forum so thats really a pointless issue to argue, but please stick to the topic, which seems to be WoW and FFXI. Lastly there's JAEFo Scholar, very simply, ffxi is fun for me (very fun actually) and I guess another million or two people feel the same.

One last thing, I thought it was funny that WoW has 40 zone's period, maybe a little over. FFXI's 2nd expansion is coming out in the fall bringing 40-50 new zones, countless quests, and new missions to the game, and everyone is just hoping to get semi-finished WoW by x-mas.
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