Ruins of Old Paineel (The Hole)

Quick Facts





Level Range:
40 - 65

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The Hole is also known as Old Paineel, the first stronghold of the Heretics, and has long been taken over Elementals and their ilk.

For the longest time, the Hole was rumored to house the entrance to the Underfoot... This is, of course, no longer a rumor.

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More important than we imagine
# Mar 27 2001 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default
If you follow the back story, there "should" be a entrance to the plane of Underfoot through here. I believe this zone will be added eventually due to all the items being dropped with no apparent use and the fact Brell worshippers are not KOS.
RE: More important than we imagine
# Nov 29 2001 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
17 posts
At the base of the water fall is a locked door, behind that is a passage going no where. A member of our guild used to be a guide and looked, lol.

Speculation is this will eventually be the entrance to the plane of Underfoot.
How to get in
# Mar 16 2001 at 4:28 AM Rating: Default
Hi, I'm a rogue level 18 with a maxed skill of Pick Lock and I was able to pick the lock to the hole. This info might help those guys who are KOS in Paineel and cannot buy the key, because there might be some rogues in the new zone Warrens, which is very close by.

Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Mar 16 2001 at 3:49 AM Rating: Default
Help me, i fell into the hole. How do i get my corpse back. many thanks in advance. yes, i know im an idiot.
RE: Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Mar 29 2001 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default
ok, a little help for you...and me...cause i just had to do this too :)
1)get a warrior who follows brell (or rogue) damnit! just a halfling!
2)get to the hole and bind right outside.
3)get sow and invis
4)swim into one of the cracks, duck, stand up, and swim around till you get past the door(you dont need a key...if you cant figure out how to do this, just shout, someone will know)
5)on the eqatlas map of the hole, your corpse is in room 7
6)the thing you dont notice is that you gotta jump down a waterfall to get to room in the water not on the ground...or...OUCH!
7)drag your dead butt back to the zone, use the same zone trick you used with your halfling and get in and loot...TADAAAAA

-sneak, hide, invis past the ratmen and the ghosts cause they HURT..i had a 30 warrior when i did this and it took them 3 hits....soo....ya
-as of yet, i cant actually figure out how to get out of the room where your corpse is short of smacking an elemental, just get your corpse as close to the waterfall as you can, then just summon it up on a second run (not sure if this works...havent tested it cause i just ran into master yen....ouch....again....)

RE: Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Mar 18 2001 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
29 posts
Well ... if this was to happen to someone, not that we are saying it has. You could go find a nice high level necro, give the nice necro some money to buy a coffin (for the corpse, as in the body now laying at bottom of the hole). If the necro does not have a key to the locked rock entry, maybe give em the money to buy the key also. Then you enter the hole with the necro, thru the locked rock entry, and the nice necro will summon your corpse using the coffin. Remember necros are great at finding lost corpses, even the ones that you know are just laying around at the bottom of the hole. Not that a now level 51 Druid would ever have fallen down into the hole also, but just going along with the what if .... rofl.
Kittieyes >^..^< Purrfect
Druid of the 51st season
RE: Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Aug 03 2001 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
243 posts
okay, not that I will be of lvl to go there for a loooonnnnnnggggg time, but...

shouldn't a druid beable to levitate down there without the big ouch and dying?

Just curious.
RE: Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Nov 06 2001 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
All levitation spells are inactive in this zone.
RE: Help plz(yes, you already know)....
# Jun 22 2001 at 3:49 AM Rating: Default
hehe ya I did the same thing. And the GM's couldn't do anything except say get a corpse summoning from a nice necro. But then a group came by and went in. I think they changed the rule on where your corpse is or something because mine was real close to the door and I got a rez. Hope this helps somewhat, if you fall it might not be that far of a treck
Living Heart of Brell Minion
# Feb 14 2001 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
does any one know what this is or is for???
RE: Living Heart of Brell Minion
# Sep 27 2001 at 5:47 AM Rating: Default
i to have a living heart of brell and ney i know what its fer if you have info no matter what date it is ye read this send me a e mail
Gold Lined Heritic Cloak
# Feb 02 2001 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
While in the Hole tower killing Kirn and Kindle we came across a Gold Lined Heritic Cloak. It has no stats and is all/all. It dropped off a regular reverant.

Does anyone have any info on this?

# Dec 21 2000 at 8:21 PM Rating: Default
If you are KOS in paineel (like I presume a barb shaman would be) how do you get the NO DROP key to get into the Hole?
What other ways do you get in ifyou can't get a key?
RE: Key
# Jul 27 2001 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
360 posts
Well - the original post is a bit... old, to say the least. But nowadays to raise Heretic faction (and Edudin faction as well) you just have to faction-farm the kobolds in The Warrens.

This takes some time, but there are NO negative faction hits. One note: DO NOT do the Kobold Molar quest, it will lower your faction with the opposing city, thus rendering all your efforts pointless. (Confirmed for the Good version in Erudin, very likely the same way for the Evil version in Paineel)

Arynduil Greyleaf
30th Ranger of Tunare
Norrathian Brotherhood, Erollsi Marr
RE: Key
# Feb 14 2001 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
It's true that the only Key to the Hole is sold in Paineel on a vendor. The Vendors name is Rallia Hapera, she is found quite near the bank through one teleporter from the enterance.

She (and everyone in Paineel) are on the Heretic faction. Most everyone starts out Kos to these Erudites.

Heretic faction is easy to raise however. It takes about an hour, and you do it at the expense of your Erudin factions. Basically kill the Guards (Sentinels) in erudin and erudin Palace for 60 mins, and you should be amiable to the folks in Paineel.

In the event that you don't feel like trashing your Erudin faction, just get a friend to do it for you :) Small races can squeeze throught the sides (top right) of the rock blocking the enterance. I beleive infact that all races except trolls and ogres are able to squeeze by.

Personally I found it worthwhile to be able to shop and bank in the Paineel, since I really enjoy fighting in the Hole. Makes picking up supplies alot easier.

Good hunting!
RE: Key
# Sep 20 2001 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
I'm an iksar and I spent about 2 hours killing kobolds in the Warrens and i'm now Amiable to both heretics and erudites. (killing kobolds raises faction for both)

Once you get to amiable hail one of the heretic skelly guards, he will ask you if you need keyz (yes it is spelled keyz) Tell him you need keyz and he will give you a no drop key to paineel. Once you get the key to paineel go back towards where the drop off into the hole is and follow the path to the other side, there is a rock on the ground. With the key on your cursor, hold your cursor over the rock and press the "U" key on your keyboard. A rock will rise up out of the ground and it has a door at the bottom of it. Step into the rock and it will lower and wah-lah your in paineel. Follow the stairs down and then thru a gate you will see a teleporter, go thru the teleport and the vendor that sells the key to the hole is near the bank. It looks like a small bag.

One more bit of info, I'm amiable to erudites and geretics now. I can buy/sell/bank in paineel and I'm not KoS to anything. In erudin I can bank but vendors wont sell to me, I'm also KoS to erudite pallys (probably KoS to all of the guilds in erudin)

Hope this info helps, if anyone ever needs a CR in the hole on fennin i have a rogue parked there, send a tell to Mikil :)
RE: Key
# Mar 04 2001 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
I am a barb shaman of the 52nd Season on Bristlebane and I can fit(squeeze) thru the crack in the rock....go to the hole above and to the right of the door....push forward and duck/unduck and turn left. You must do this all at the same you duck/unduck and pressing hte up arrow key turn to the right and keep ducking/unducking. Eventually you will make it.

Aetrayu Spiritweaver
52 Mystic
Clan of the Roc
RE: Key
# Dec 22 2000 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
and Yes I tried to squeeze, through and couldn't make it in, /sigh
RE: Key
# Apr 02 2001 at 2:15 PM Rating: Default
For those having a bit of trouble squeesing past the rock....a shrink potion works wonders here
RE: Key
# Apr 06 2001 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
Last I heard shrink only works in dungeons. But not sure... you know how verant is with rules, so you may be able to use shrink here.

But I do know wolf form and werewolf form both work here so if all else fails ask your friendly druid or enchanter to illusion you.
RE: Key
# Jul 25 2001 at 11:46 AM Rating: Default
The spell is indoor only, potion works anywhere
More on corpse retrieval
# Dec 18 2000 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
As mentioned before, those who follow Brell Serelis are not KOS to anyone but the ghosts and Ratmen. This is solved simply by casting invis on the grunt. Make a halfling rogue, follow Brell Serelis, cast invis on him, and send him anywhere in the zone (except up to the main mob). He will be able to get to the deepest depths. Sneak/Hide will NOT work on the ghosts and ratmen; you have to be invis.

Fdor, from Prexus, has a great map of this zone, with paths, posted on Allakhazam's site.
RE: More on corpse retrieval
# Sep 22 2001 at 6:46 AM Rating: Default
Dont know if this has been recently changed, but the ratmen seeing through my halfling rogues's hide/sneak.
RE: More on corpse retrieval
# May 07 2001 at 4:29 PM Rating: Default
The above about invisibility is incorrect. You CAN sneak/hide past everything in the zone, including Ratmen and ghosts. As a matter of fact, the elementals, golems and fighy fiends will not aggro you even when NOT sneaking/hiding, but I wouldn't chance it.

I made a level 1 Halfling Rogue who worships Brell, and did sneak/hide all thru the zone with no problem.

The only thing you need to be careful about is to be sure that you "succesfully" sneak and hide. Look at the success/failure message to be sure. If you fail at sneak you will get a message that says "You are as quiet as a herd of stampeding elephants" which obviously means that sneak failed. Keep trying.

I made this character so that I could hunt with my 53 Wizzy and friends and not have the hunting slowed down by long corpse retrievals.

I will give you one other hint if you have made a level 1 rogue like me. First, be sure you are bound outside the Hole in Paineel.

You know that you can't get back up on the ledge once you jump down. However, what you do is go in and drag the corpse(s) to just below the ledge and drop it there. Now go attack anything close by and die, which doesn't matter to a level one anyway. I pop back into Paineel, zone into the Hole, run down to the ledge, BUT do NOT jump down. I then summon the corpse which is lying just below me at the bottom of the ledge, then drag back to the zone.

Hope this helps.

Sufflox Mordrox,
53 Gnome Wizard
Brell Serilis
RE: More on corpse retrieval
# Mar 29 2001 at 4:21 PM Rating: Default
Sorry but you are wrong. I made a Brell worshipping rogue and went through the entire zone mapping it out all the way to Master Yael and back in sneak/hide and nothing will aggro you.
$$ for CR.
Avoiding trains before the castle.
# Nov 30 2000 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
Every guide and description that I've seen about the Hole has gone under the assumption that you have to follow that first path to the left and take the short drop to fight near the entrance to the castle.

I don't ever do it that way. If you stand toe to toe with that first rock golem, you will notice a slightly taller cliff on your right. At the base of this cliff is a single elemental warrior (consistently green at 55). If you jump onto this warrior you take 70-90 points of falling damage, but have the advantage of being able to pull this area against the grain, so to speak. The pathing on the other side, in front of the castle gates, is absolutely horrible. Its very easy to get more than you want there, and isn't recomendable without an enchanter.

If you pull from the other side, though, you can get almost all singles, and its easy to clear everything up to the jail to this spot before the respawn with just two groups. You can then waltz on down to the room with the water, right before that *really* nasty room that's been described several times here.

This is also the only way to go if you have a single group or less, and want to farm loam. If you sit right flush with the wall, at the point farthest away from the castle entrance as possible, the only mob you will aggro is the single elemental warrior spawn. You can take your time here, med up as much as you need, and use pets without worrying abou them aggroing the inside of the castle at all.

I'm realy surprised noone's mentioned this before.



Imbued Granite Spaulders
# Nov 11 2000 at 11:55 PM Rating: Default
ok, what drops the Spaulders, this may be a stupid question, or it may have been already answered, but im to lazy to check. So what drops these things??
RE: Imbued Granite Spaulders
# Nov 21 2000 at 5:43 AM Rating: Default
Not sure if it is a random drop off any mob, but I do know the time I looted them they came off of a Golem.

Icehouse Soultaker
Jail Area?
# Oct 04 2000 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
My particle quest requires that I visit the Jail and kill a named ratman. Can anyone give me general directions how to get there and any other info that might help. Thanks
RE: Jail Area?
# Oct 30 2000 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default
The Jail area is actually pretty easy to get to. Once you are past the one-way cliff and looking at the first castle, clear the small courtyard. There are two door here, one directly across from the courtyard aentrance, and one to the left. Take door to the left, go through first door on your right, and voila, jail area. Have never seen a named rat in there, but there is a human NPC named Caradorn or something that hates pretty much everyone. Only person he would talk to kindly was a gnome wizzie worshipping Brell, but then he would NOT talk to a gnome cleric worshipping Brell, so his faction standing is somewhat in question.
Ratman guard
# Sep 23 2000 at 12:46 PM Rating: Default
Has anybody killed this thing yet? I know there's at least 2 that wander around a little ways inside the first castle. They hit for 370 dmg and my group has never bothered fighting one yet.
RE: Ratman guard
# Nov 30 2000 at 2:35 AM Rating: Default
We killed him for the SK quest. He's level 55 even, highest hit we saw was 310. Two groups, only one cleric. The only real caveat is to make sure that you get him aggroed onto your main tank before anyone debuffs. He is not tauntable, and will kill and enchanters, shaman, or magicians that attempt to mitigate his damage potential.


RE: Ratman guard
# Jun 27 2001 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
If you have an enchanter you should have no problem with controlling the aggro.Stun mem blur. Have it called.Ratman guard gets hit by big nuke or aggros on healer. enchnater stuns and mem blurs first thing that hits it is what guard aggroes on.Mem blur is not resistable.Of course letting the warroir get in a couple wacks before debuff is always sound pulling strategy for almost any mob.Many enchanters try using mez as a hate wipe but that only works if you get out of aggro range. mem blur is the full package
# Sep 11 2000 at 3:37 AM Rating: Default
Are there any good maps of the deeper section? We had a couple groups past the stores. While we were medding, a wanderer pet was showing next to a wall. It started attacking us and then all hell broke loose. About 10+ mobs came from around the corner and killed half of us. Just curious if there is a map out there somewhere? Thanks.
# Aug 27 2000 at 4:16 PM Rating: Excellent
I have to admit, the first time I went into the Hole I was completely horrified with the pathing and swore I would never return. I now admit, I am glad I did. Most people consider the Hole to be just the first pit and castle. The Hole is a great dungeon for just that 'Dungeon Crawling', not for camping. While there ARE a few spots that you can technically camp for xp, it is by far, not the most rewarding thing to do.

First 6-8 spawns are usually camped by a zone group, if you're here for xp, then this is really your only safe bet as long as noone else is there camping them.

1 wandering elemental and first stationary rock golem and elemental. This is usually the only elemental most people want to deal with, he guards the ramp with the door that apparently noone can get in through, so we just killed him and moved on.

One-way drop is just past the first elemental, following the left wall. Once here, you can only port back out of the zone. A lot of groups like to pull to here, but unless you have a chanter, I would recommend it, while it CAN be done, this area proves rather prone to trains, since a lot of mobs from below and through the walls can aggro if you're not careful, still, it's another 'campable spot' so to speak, you can pull from the valley area, and the mobs from inside the first castle from here, which you will need to do anyways if you plan on going in deeper.

Past the first castle, you will go in through a hallway, if you take the first left and keep going down, you will eventually fight a few rock golems before reaching the pool area, where 3 spawns can randomly spawn a fiend, a golem and elementals, note a ratman sometimes wanders up all the way to the top of the stairs.

Pool area, once you've cleared the mobs here you setup the timer and this is where you want to camp and have your puller pull to from the next room. -IMPORTANT- if you have a monk pulling here, the one and foremoest most important skill available to him here is SNEAK. As a monk myself, at 52nd lvl, I was able to use sneak to get within spitting distance of most mobs in that room, plus if you're using sneak, you will not always aggro all mobs if you use shuriken to pull (and yes, they all still conned blue, so they all transfer aggro). With a little bit of sneak, it was possible to pull that entire room clean, about 2-4 mobs at a time without need of chain pulling, and this we were able to pull the room fast enough to move on. Note that the room after the pull room is really 2 rooms, one hidden behind a doorway on the right which holds another rock golem (1 wanderer also) and about 3-4 elementals, making it a tricky pull since they all aggro if you pull from the front. This is by far, the hardest room to clear in the dungeon as far as I could tell because of the number of spawns and the aggro range.

Just past this room, 'a wanderer' roams up to the top of the hall and into the room, so kill her quickly and move down the hall till it opens up and you see the entrance to the old city of Paineel. Note this wanderer sometimes is a named, but do not worry, we killed him maybe 6 times and he never dropped anything good.

Once you're at the opening of the old city, move off the ramp and go to the far right corner where the rock meets the stone wall, behind the wall there are no mobs and so you won't aggro anything. You will also avoid all the roaming ghosts which exit the city and move all the way up to the room above you just cleared. There will be 2 elementals guarding the front gate, and another guarding the pool just in front of 'The slab' inside the city. Once the 2 guards are cleared and you have recently killed the roaming ghost, run in and clear the first store which is 'Gerans Gears', clear everything in there and move to the back part of the store, then have your puller check to see if it's clear and have your group rush to 'The Slab' and clear it as well, moving to the farthest room in the back to avoid aggroing the wandering ghosts.

Once you have cleared the slab, have your puller check for the roamers, and then move on to 'Chancy's Clothes' (I might have gotten the name wrong), all these stores are right next to each other. The clothes stores requires that you go up stairs quickly, have your groups move up there QUICKLY and pass the first elemental seller, moving to the back room, pull all your mobs to there, only 3 mobs in that store so it's not a big fight. The key here is to keep moving to the furthest room in every store so that you are not near the walls outside, and thus aggro a wandering ghost.

This is as far as a walkthrough as I can give, as with our 2 groups, we owned all the way up to here, but unfortunately, while moving into the clothing store, our group moved slowly and aggroed a wandering ghost, while this is normally not a problem, we pushed the ghost through a wall and it ended up teleporting back to it's spawn spot, at the basement of the revenent temple, and started to summon all our tanks, one by one, there and killing them, I alone survived because I was fortunate enough to FD, while the other groups camped, and then gated out. We had to have a guide come and summon our corpses out due to this bug, so please make sure to never fight any monsters and pushed them through walls. (I was summoned along with all the other tanks to the basement, and after 3 full, long FD runs did I finally make it to the very top of the temple, a building that is MUCH deeper than we were at yet, so it was scary.)

The other thing of note, as you have noticed, is all those mobs, rock golems and ghosts, CAN and DO summon. While in normal fights it's no big deal, if you let one get away, it's pretty much a doomed call.

We went in with 2 groups. 2 clerics, 1 enchanter, 2 warriors, 1 monk (myself), 2 paladins and a ranger, a wizard and 2 druids. While a shaman would have been great to slow down the mobs, it would only have made fights easier, but not more possible. The chanter did a wonderful job, and we learned quickly to always take down the golems first as they are hard, and impossible to mez at certain lvls.

I hope this guide helps you any, if anything this dungeon is a WONDERFUL and exciting dungeon crawl. It took our group 2 full days to learn the ins and out of the dungeon, and by far the most challenging spot you will face is the room just beyond the pool, after that, just have a good puller (preferably a monk or rogue with sneak, I can not emphasize how useful this skill is in this zone since everything sees through invis). I know this dungeon still has more to offer, and someday I will gather up those groups again and we will go all the way, as i'm sure others have already done.

Good luck!

Brell serilis
#Anonymous, Posted: Sep 11 2000 at 3:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post)
Dispelling some myths..
# Aug 25 2000 at 3:14 AM Rating: Excellent
The Hole is a greatly underutilized dungeon, though it's somewhat obvious why, as past the very entrance it's a zone where teleports are the only exit, and the pathing in some areas is downright horrible. A little information goes a long way though, and there's a lot of people who make assumptions or just get things wrong, so lets get right down to it..

First and foremost, the Hole is an "old" zone, not a Kunark zone. That means a couple of things.. one, manastones work, and two, every NPC that's level 53 and higher is giant-flagged and uncharmable. That is why some rock golems can be mesmerized and some can't, the same holds true for the wanderers deeper (NPCs called "a wanderer", not just a roaming monster in general). If you can, have a person who is level 50, 52 or 53 consider each rock golem and report if it's 53+ or not.. if that's impossible, either have your enchanter(s) be very careful or root before mesmerizing, to avoid some nastiness. While it's hard to test, it does seem like the level 53+ rock golems and wanderers are also untauntable in addition to being giant-flagged, and that makes root an even more useful spell to keep them on the right target. Besides the rock golems, wanderers, and the occasional very rare boss, nothing in the zone will be level 53+, so the rest is easy fodder for the enchanter.

Now to treasure.. elementals drop Loam Encrusted Armour, the undead drop Withered Leather Armour, and both undead and rats seem to drop Paineel Steel Armour. With the Loam and Withered armour at least, some pieces are random drops and some come off specific named monsters. While you have a chance to find Loam Slippers or a Loam Amice on any given elemental, you'll only find Loam Sleeves on the Bejewelled Elemental, Loam Pants are only on the Stonegrinder Minion, and the Loam Bracer is only from Muck Covered Elementals. Some of those rare named monsters can appear anywhere (the Bejewelled Elemental, Gibartik, etc.), while some always appear in the same spot with occasional placeholders (Stonesoul the Unmoving, Muck Covered Elemental). Withered Leather Armour works the same way, while substituting the undead for elementals. Because undead are only found deeper in the zone, it takes more work to get to the Withered Leather, but in my experience it seems to drop randomly more often than Loam does. That compensates for less undead being available to kill, at least until you get to the undead city. Rock Golems drop the Granite Spaulders and a weapon or two, ratmen can sometimes carry Smouldering Brands (as can a few elementals), and supposedly a rare spawn ratman holds a damage 12 rogue piercing weapon.. I can't confirm that from personal experience though, take that with a grain of salt.

The Hole is a huge, huge zone, most people who go there don't appreciate it's scope. They see the first castle, maybe explore into it a bit and either get all the way up to the locked door at the top or get trained out early, and leave thinking that's everything. By far most of the zone is on beyond that first castle, which you reach by turning left as soon as you enter it's courtyard.. that will take you down a long tunnel to a tough to break room (you'll either pull 1-3 monsters first from it, or the whole room of 8-9), and past that to the city of Old Paineel. Unfortunately, some cramped castle areas and city streets offer the worst pathing in the zone.. with elementals complete healing others through walls, or things pulling themselves. There's lots of horror stories about 4 or 5 groups being wiped out by a bad pull/agro/train, but if you're careful and your puller isn't above eating a bad pull, you can progress quite well with 3 groups or less, even one group if you're very confident in your skills. Enchanters and clerics are strong group members, of course, but necromancers and wizards come to the forefront too.. as long as they're closely watched, pets won't cause many trains, so a necromancer can keep one up (though it may suicide at some points due to pathing), and the power of a wizard's DD shines in an area where the majority of the monsters (level 40ish elementals all the way through) can be killed in 4 or 5 spells from a 50+ wizard. And of course, you'll need good tanks/melee damage dealers, but that goes without saying.

Now, I'll finish up by asking a question.. in the very first castle, if you go into it rather than on deeper, you'll find a locked grate in a water-filled room. Having a rogue pick the grate, you can proceed through the water into an isolated area with 4 rooms and nothing more.. my group fought there for 2 spawn cycles, had nothing of note happen, and left bored to explore elsewhere. Has anyone found a rare named spawn there? It would seem that there would be one..

Valdayana D'Varr (Quellious server)
RE: Dispelling some myths..
# Nov 30 2000 at 2:26 AM Rating: Default
I've been down in that area you described, for a couple of spawns as well, but we didn't turn anything up either. It defitnely *looks* as if there ought to be something there, though. Before we had the zone mapped (noone had cleared to the other side of the city yet) we were sure that Yael spawned there, but only rarely. /shrug, we were obviously quite wrong.

I think maybe someone forgot to put in the mob for that area :P


RE: Dispelling some myths..
# Sep 13 2000 at 3:14 PM Rating: Default
Are you CERTAIN that the 53+ mobs cannot be mezzed/charmed? Or is it the case that the enchanter needs to have rapture and/or dictate to do this? I know there's a lot of MOBs in Sky that are immune to anything but rapture.

If you get a 59-60 enchanter down there and try this out I'd love to hear the response.

The Rathe
Very certain.
# Sep 16 2000 at 2:00 AM Rating: Default
I am 100% absolutely certain that a monster level 53 or higher in the Hole is completely immune to all forms of stun, mesmerize, and charm. I can say that as a level 55 enchanter. It's a limitation of pre-Kunark zones. Glamour of Kintaz, Rapture, and Dictate don't allow enchanters to get around that limitation any more than they allow enchanters to mesmerize Fire Giants in Sol B (though Dictate in that case will charm them). While Kintaz, Dictate and Rapture definitely are needed in Sky, and the deepest parts of Sebilis, the Hole isn't a Kunark zone, so going by the rules of the pre-expansion game, those monsters are immune to stuns, mesmerizes and charms.

And yes, I know Sky's not actually part of Kunark, but it follows the rules of Kunark zones.. it didn't always, which is why you'll see conflicting reports sometimes about whether Azaracks are mezzable or not (they weren't when Sky first opened on pre-Kunark rules, they are now).

Valdayana D'Varr (posting anonymously to retain that perfect ranking, heh heh)
RE: Very certain.
# May 02 2001 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
I'm 51 enchanter, and last night was stunning red golems with color skew and shift. if they red they must be at least lvl 53. I got the message and it stopped beating on the cleric, so know it worked.

It them summoned me and about beat me to death, but still.

RE: Very certain.
# May 01 2001 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
39 posts
Actually, they can be stunned. Just not mezzed or charmed. They can also be rooted which is often better than stun if you have a decent dex and your channeling is maxxed. Most the time I use stun simply to get away from the spawn. Root has the same effect.
Cennyan Evalion
L60 Enchanter of the Nameless
Rock golems - some are stunnable...
# Aug 24 2000 at 10:47 AM Rating: Default
295 posts
I have noticed that -some- rock golems are giants, and some aren't. Some people may notice that rock golems have an exceptionally large level range - something like from level 47 to 54. Inititally, we heard that rock golems couldn't be mezzed. Sure enough, when I tried I received the same message as for giants/dragons. However, not -all- golems are like this. Some of them are stunnable/mezzable. I believe that the 53rd and 54th level rock golems are flagged as giants.
Corpse retrieval...
# Aug 24 2000 at 10:45 AM Rating: Default
295 posts
Corpse retrieval in the Hole can be easier than people think. An enchanter in illusion:earth elemental is not KOS before his faction gets too low, with the exception of rat men and revenants. In the early part of the dungeon, an enchanter could drag the corpses to the cliff face, gate out, go back to the top of the cliff, /corpse it up the side of the cliff to the top, and drag it back to the entrance. If you find yourself going KOS, gnome/dwarven clerics of Brell are not KOS either - we made a level 1 mule for dragging out corpses, binding him in paineel in the water tunnel just beyond the door to the hole.

Deeper in, however, you'll need a necro to summon corpses.
RE: Corpse retrieval...
# Oct 10 2000 at 12:41 PM Rating: Default
you'll find lots of the elementals will say KOS but you can walk right up to them and they won't attack
the others are dubious or what not, and obviously won't attack

if those front elementals con dubious+ then you will be safe from everything except the ratmen and the ghosts

....only thing is, i think if you agro a ratman, everything that sees the rat attacking you will assist the rat, even if you are dubious+ ... not 100%, but pretty sure
RE: Corpse retrieval...
# Sep 11 2000 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
I havent done too much in the hole and right from the start my faction has been somewhat mixed with the elementals. The 4 ellys at the entrance are dubious to me in elemental form, the 2 left and right to the stairs are KOS, like the rest of them. The flighty fiends and rock golems are dubious again.

My guess is that this has something to do with religion (i am agnostic) or race (i was born a high elf).

53rd level enchantress
RE: Corpse retrieval...
# Oct 30 2000 at 12:16 PM Rating: Default
It's true, worshippers of Brell are not necessarily KOS here. My guild and I are making a slew of 1st lvl halfling rogues to explore the dungeon more completely.
Info on the Hole
# Aug 22 2000 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Having been down into the Hole multiple Times I will say this:

First 9: that would be the six before the stairs down and the three after, a good soloer (indoor solo ie. pet class) can do the first 6 elementals, nothing special about them they have tons of hps and hit hard, just like rest of the zone, next 3 are down the stairs easily pulled 2 then 1, and are just a little harder. I wouldn't attempt them without 2 or 3 people just for safety's sake.

PONR: or Point of No Return, is a little ledge you fall off of, you will take like 20 points of damage, but can NOT get back up from there. I hear rumors that there is a way out but you have to clean out the castle area, but I'm not sure, never went that route. Our goal was always to go as deep as we could as fast as we could because of respawn.

Castle: is right past PONR, a good 6 man group can come down to ponr and pull from here. Respawn is 24 minutes and sometimes single pops turn in to double or triple, It is awesome experience with some good tanks, pet classes and cleric. Important, from here ON you WILL need an enchanter for crowd control, I have only been past this point with a 6 man group one time, and we had a 56th enchanter with us who was really damn good.

From here you can head down a bunch of halls to a little pool of water, this is a good point to start pulling to if you are going deeper, once you clean this room start the timer, and at 20 minutes decide if you can move on or not... if not either fight here from now on or leave. If you pull further and at 20 minutes decide to wait on repops and clear it again be prepared for some hard stuff. Double repops are not uncommon, and splitting is tough, not impossible, just tough. I have never been past this point with only one group.

farther down there is another pull to spot, which we only temporarily stayed at, only been this far once excuse what I cant' remember. Kept trucking down to the old erudite city. Be forewarened You can aggro a lot of stuff Really quick if you don't know what you are doing. Our puller was a 52nd monk who is damn good. He died multiple times from being jumped by 6 and 7 mobs when he swore he only pulled 2 or 3.

Extra Info on the mobs:

Elementals have different names, vizers are wizards, crusaders are warriors etc, be aware of what you have pulled and what you are fighting, without a good enchanter ALWAYS kill casters first.

Anything in this dungeon from ratmen to Rock Golems and the dead Erudites, if they are over level 52 I believe they can and will summon. I've seen stuff con red to 52nd level people here.

Rock Guardians have HELLA hit points. I mean hella... these things make the undead Ghoul Lord look like a bixie in comparison sometimes.

two things I suggest for this dungeon, unless you are here for exp and tough fights go with at least two groups., 2: bring the following 4 people no matter what, CLERIC (don't try and sub with a hybrid healer, you will get spanked hard and need the Clerics heals.) ENCHANTER ( and they better be damn good), NECRO (for one reason alone, summon corpse, just in case) and SHAMAN (why? Their slow down spells will keep you alive, and their regen saves your cleric from blowing too much mana on your casters.)

Hope this helps, and this is just my experience. I have had a blast everytime I've went to this dungeon, hope you do too!
Fiery Defender
# Mar 28 2001 at 3:25 PM Rating: Default
Can anyone explain where Fiery DEFENDER quest starts, I have the AVENGER, I heard the DEFENDER quest has alot to do with The Hole
RE: Info on the Hole
# Oct 31 2000 at 12:12 PM Rating: Default
Don't forget Druids level 44 and above. Nice anti-summoned nukes. 585 damage. A lot of thing down there are summoned.
RE: Info on the Hole
# Sep 02 2000 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
Enchanters beware, if your puller pulls multiple rock golems con em before you mez and try and mez the low con, the ones 53 and over are not mezzable, stunnable, or charmable and you WILL die if you try to mez em. Mez what you can first before you try and mez stuff that's questionable. Also a shaman in the group takes a lot of pressure off the enchanter because he can take over the slow spells and thus take some of the agro potential off your tissue paper armored enchanter and greatly lowers his mana burn from castings slows. Golems will cut through your rune spells in a single set of swings, but if you have a shaman along you should have the spare mana to keep em up which will give you a little breathing room. Don't penny pinch, use rune IV and get the cleric to give you the best symbol ( give em a stack of peridots). Without that hp buffer it will be hard to stay alive in the time it takes to get the mobs off you. Be warned that if you color stun a 53+ golem you will not stun him and you will just **** him off. You may have to just stand there and take damage while your tanks get on him and hope he gets taunted off befor you die, try to slip a memblur of somekind in if you can and back away when your tanks have had a chance to do a little damage and get taunts off.
RE: Info on the Hole
# Nov 30 2000 at 2:18 AM Rating: Default
Another important note to enchanters - the named spawns, once aggroed, just won't get off you till you are dead.

The Ratman Guard is a prime example. He was double hittong for 310 a pop. Our enchanter died right off because tash pissed it off so much. The shaman was next.

You simply must not debuff the named mobs in this zone until the tanks thoroughly have thei attention. I always advise waiting for 75%. Oh, and mem blur defintely doesn't work on the level 55 Ratman Guard.
RE: Info on the Hole
# Sep 11 2000 at 12:31 PM Rating: Default
One other minor class needed... Druid/ranger for the snare. One gets away and it's all dead.
RE: Info on the Hole
# Oct 25 2000 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
Thats what the Necro's Are for, they have much better snare.
RE: Info on the Hole
# May 15 2001 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
240 posts
No sir, that is just not true. I have played both the necro and druid. The necro darkness line also is a dot. That means the MOBS get two chances to resist!! With the snare line for druids, all it does is slow the MOB. That means only one chance to resist. I get FAR FAR fewer risists using my druids snare compared to using my necro's darkness line. The slowing is the important aspect here as in the hole you don't want that MOB going to get friends (resists are bad).
RE: Info on the Hole
# Oct 30 2000 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
Hehe and the day that's true, druids everywhere will be SCREAMING :) Snare is and always will be the best spell in the game for it's mana cost and duration. This is from a high-lvl necro (52), believe me I'll take a Snare over a Darkness any day of the week, if only for the duration.

One other thing, basic mobs go higher than the 52 that was mentioned in the root of this thread. Once in the city, 54th lvl Rock Golems are not rare.

Nefarien Rahl
The Elders, Mith Marr
RE: Info on the Hole
# Jan 21 2001 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
First 6 spawns, easy enough. Next 3, simple work. Then you reach the Golem and the Crusader at the bridge. TUFF STUFF. Golem can goto 54 and hits REALLY hard REALLY FAST. BEWARE.
Not a dungeon you want to camp..
# Aug 22 2000 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
The hole, once you get past the first 6 spawns or so, is *not* a dungeon you can camp. I've heard that Verant actually is using it as something of a test to see if they can eliminate camping in it, and as such it has alot of odd quirks to it. First off, once you get beyond the entrance, you have to drop down into a courtyard, and once down there, there *is* no known way back up short of gate. Many a tank has gotten stuck down there....

Next, once you get down into the pit, *don't stop moving.* kill, med up, move on must become your mantra. Why? because stuff respawns fast, and when it does, *2* respawn for every one you've killed. When my guild first went down there, we cleared into the castle with little difficulty, and then got cocky and decided "we'll just sit here and farm some XP..." WRONG! as soon as we were sitting we were quickly OVERWELMED by a continual stream of mobs that kept showing up... we had two groups and we killed something on the order of 14 mobs that kept showing up before finnally having to evac when 5 more showed up. Don't camp! I've also heard that FD-pulling doesn't work in the hole, as they've set it up so that mobs leave as soon as you FD, making splitting immpossible.

Well, that's what little I know and have heard about the hole. Lots of good stuff in this dungeon, and it is ALOT of fun, so please post more info!
RE: Not a dungeon you want to camp..
# Oct 27 2000 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
First I would like to say that This IS in fact a very campable dungeon. If you have 2 smart grps, you can easily pull from the castle, and work your way down. All you have to know is how the Pathing is. And it is BAD. You think pathing in other zones is bad? Try campin here for a while. There are a few in my guild who have practically Lived in this zone for almost 2 months now. One, because there is hardly anyone ever here. And two, there is Much exp to be had here. Especially if you are a pet class such as necro/mage. The lewt in here Is Phat as well. Loam arms and pants are next to the best in game for pure casters. Spaulders are killer, Smoldering brand is a fun looking all/all weapon to sling around. All and all, I love this zone. So do my Enchanters. Which is why one of them has been in the Hole from 52 to 54. Most of the time soloing.
This is a VERY nice zone if you know your way around. Learn the pathing, Know your mates abilities, and ALWAYS have a chanter if you plan on jumping off the ledge. You may be able to pull a few for a while, but the time WILL come when you agor one, that agros 3 others. And unless you have Mez workin for your team, a Golly, Caster, FF, and 2 other Elementals will use grp as a light snack.

Also, a word to the wise. Unless you have 2 grps of very well rounded chars, with at least 3 High level tanks, do NOT try to take the Ratman Guard. As he doubles for almost 400 at times, has Uber HPs, and will not hesitate to go after all the casters first when he see's that he can drop them like flies. Trust me. This **** makes the PoD look alot less of a bad *** than everyone thinks. I think Ratman Guard is tougher than the zone Boss. Pretty close. So tread Lightly. And i hope to see more and more people frequent this zone.

Innorruks Own "Fear the Ungodly"
52 Cleric
52 Wizard
50 Necro
20 Bard
34 Enchanter
# Aug 22 2000 at 4:23 PM Rating: Default
Right at the zone entrance there are six mobs that can be single pulled easily and soloed by a pet class from 50 to 53 No loam armour drops of the elemental warriors but the exp is fast its a 20 mins spawn I managed to break it easily and found myself allmost constantly killing and never oom

Kyndle Elddar
#Anonymous, Posted: Sep 15 2000 at 8:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) When you say "single pulled easily" do you mean that they spawn singly, or that they are in pairs that can be split using Harmony or Screaming Terror?
# Aug 22 2000 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
141 posts
If you have a partner who can help deal with multiple pulls then you can add the next 3 spawns to your camp. When you walk past the first 6 and down the hall two will jump you from around corners and there is one wanderer. Of these 3, two are usually crusaders who CAN drop encrusted loam armor, greatly improving the quality of this camp. Oh, and its a 24 minute spawn, not 20.
# Aug 27 2000 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
22 min spawn, not 20 or 24
# Oct 15 2000 at 11:35 PM Rating: Default
Spawn time is exactly 21mins 30 sec. At least outside the castle. Haven't been inside. That time is exact on everything.
# Sep 03 2000 at 3:45 PM Rating: Default
Elemental Warriors do drop loam armor though extremely rare. I solo the first six spawns very often. I recieved a loam encrusted amice off of one of them. After many many hours of camping there that is the only rare drop i recieved so it is not worth camping them for armor. But you can get lucky
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 24 2000 at 2:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I post in the hopes that someone loike you will come along and correct me ....
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