Ruins of Old Paineel (The Hole)

Quick Facts





Level Range:
40 - 65

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The Hole is also known as Old Paineel, the first stronghold of the Heretics, and has long been taken over Elementals and their ilk.

For the longest time, the Hole was rumored to house the entrance to the Underfoot... This is, of course, no longer a rumor.

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Plane of underfoot
# Jul 10 2003 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
Ok how the heck do you open this stupid thing? the plane of underfoot? some one drop a key?

Edited, Thu Jul 10 20:32:55 2003
# May 28 2003 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
How would the exp be for a level 48 monk? Id like to go to the hole for the exp bonus around 48 (currently 44) if its reasonable to do with a small group.
Where do you get the Key
# May 13 2003 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
I know you dont need the key but where do you get it?
RE: Where do you get the Key
# May 13 2003 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
You can buy it in Paineel, assuming you are not KOS there. It costs about 100pp.
Going through the crack
# Apr 30 2003 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Going In

Stand on the border of the pool facing north east, looking at two trees.

You should see 3 large rocks aligned vertically. The top one lay partly outside of the pool, the middle one is more horizontal, and the bottom one underwater is kinda square and that is a DOOR to the Hole. You need a key to move that rock.

Now there are TWO cracks between those 3 rocks, you want to go through the crack between the TOP two rocks, and the side of the pool.

Go near the crack, then duck, then move as close as possible. Duck off. You should see partly through the large top rock. Now this is the trick : push sideways and a little forward and you will be crossing through the top rock.

Going Out

When coming from the underwater, head left and up and enter Duck mode to get as close as possible to the crack. Now hit Duck off, and you will be standing partly through the rock. Just push forward and you should be through.

Ghost Pathing
# Apr 10 2003 at 3:04 AM Rating: Excellent
In April 8th 2003 there was a patch which amoung many other things was to improve pathing.

Since then we have been getting revenants wandering up and out of the castle and up over the drop over towards the paineel zone. Irslak the Wretched as well.

It has made soloing the entrance hall much more dangerous. But at least there is a chance to get some of the withered leather stuff without dropping over the cliff.

RE: Ghost Pathing
# Apr 24 2003 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
They fixed the revenant roamer on April 22 patch.
The Pit
# Apr 06 2003 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
Did the jump into the Pit method last night and here is what we did and it worked flawless.

Party was as follows:

61 Shaman
57 Cleric (Brell religion)
57 Rogue/1 Rogue
56 Necro
54 Druid
54 Warrior

1) Create a lvl 1 Brell Halfling Rogue. Buff him to 900 HP or so and have him jump in first. Use him to verify whether Yael is up or not and to pull bodies.

2) Level 1 rogue jumps and moves to locked door.

3) Necro casts invulnerability and jumps in. If no aggro run to the door with rogue. If agro then run towards exit hallway and feign or die. Make pet if no agro.

4) Brell Cleric casts invulnerability and jumps in. If no aggro run to the exit hallway and wait If agro then run towards exit hallway and die.

5) Shaman jumps in. If survive the fall run like hell for the door with the rogue. Make pet when you can.

At this point we had necro feigned near exit, the Cleric out in the exit hallway and the Shaman dead from the fall. The level 1 rogue dragged the Shaman into the exit hall and he was rezzed by the cleric. The Necro moved into the exit hall as well and waited while the Shaman regenned his mana. Killed 3 or 4 hall wanderers and then pulled the Golem by the exit hall. Next was the 2 wanderers and then the other static spawn. Room cleared and only the Shaman died (from the fall)

6) Druid and Warrior jump. Both die. Drag and rez.

7) Log level 1 rogue and 57 Rogue jump. Rogue lived.

Now we have entire raid party full health and mana waiting in the exit hallway. We crawled along killing anything/everything until we reached undead tower. IVU and up we all ran right into High Scale Kirn's room and bumrushed the 2 revenants. Moments later we were ready for Kirn.

Total time for all of this was under 1 hour. Much faster (and easier with our group makeup) then the standard method.
Infiltrating to Epic Mobs
# Apr 04 2003 at 5:35 PM Rating: Excellent
71 posts
Well, after some trial and error, I can outline a relatively easy way to get a force into close proximity to the epic mobs that spawn deep within the Hole without having to clear through the city (which is a complete pain in the ****** This method does work while Yael is up.

First, you need to powerlevel a brell cleric to level 14. The cleric needs the three spells divine aura, invis to undead, and reanimation, if you want to go totally barebones.

Get the cleric to paineel, bind him right at the pit that drops you into the hole. Have the cleric divine aura and dive in, he'll land in the middle of a bunch of elementals, golems, flighty fiends, and master yael (if he's up). All these mobs should ignore you since you're a brell worshiper. Run up the passage that leads to the castle full of undead and epic mobs. ITU so none of the undead will aggro, run past the entrance to the castle, around the corner, and you'll be on a ledge overlooking master yael's spawn. Park the cleric here, we'll come to him later.

Next, you'll need to have a 55+ mage in your raid party. have everyone in the raid party zone into the hole, no need to fight the entrance mobs, just sit around. Have someone duel the mage to kill him without exp loss. Now, take a level 1 brell worshiping halfling rogue, use sneak/hide and drag the mage's corpse all the way down through the city and to the spot where the level 14 cleric is parked. Have the cleric reanimate the mage, get the mage grouped with the halfling rogue, have the rogue sneak back to the entrance, or even easier make sure he's bound right outside the Hole entrance in Paineel and just have him run up to a mob and ask it for a free port to bind, any way you do it, have him in the entrance to the zone so he can invite people for Call of the Hero. CotH your entire raid party into position, assemble your groups, and presto! You're right near all the epic mobs, you're really close to master yael, and you didn't have to kill a thing. In the event that you don't have a mage that can cast Call of the Hero, it is possible to simply corpse your entire raid party and drag all their corpses through the zone. In this situation, I strongly reccomend that each person at the raid bring their own level 1 halfling rogue, because I had to drag five corpses through the Hole last night and it was not only extremely difficult (ended up making a ton of macro keys to target and summon corpses) but it also took about an hour and twenty minutes.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
(note: copies of this post will be placed in the discussion of the important epic mobs in the bestiary section, as well as under the main Hole strategy discussion. I'm not trying to spam, just trying to make it so anyone looking for info on their epic mob can find this strategy quickly and easily)
RE: Infiltrating to Epic Mobs
# May 22 2003 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
Excellent guide you posted, Milesgloriosus. Thank you. I dropped a level 14 dwarven cleric of Brell in with divine aura. Yael wasn't up, so I can't verify that he won't agro. However, none of the elementals, golems or fiends attacked me. Some were dubious and some were scowling, but none attacked. However I did run into a problem once I left Yael's area and headed up the slope towards the safe ledge. There was a ratman patrolling the passageway and he attacked and killed the cleric. So, I switched to the Brell rogue and used sneak/hide to watch the ratman's path to see if there would be an opportunity for me to sneak the cleric by.
The ratman would come down the tunnel toward Yael's area, but would stop at the last bend in the tunnel (approx location +650, +650) and then would turn and head back up towards the safe ledge. Once he gets near the safe ledge area, he takes a right and heads up toward Jaeil the Wretched. He passes Jaeil and even goes up into the city.
I stopped following him at that point, as I realized his path would give me plenty of time to get the cleric into place on the ledge.
Logged back on the cleric and dropped him in again with divine aura. The ratman had made his way back down the tunnel towards Yael, so I waited for him to turn around and head back up. It's important to keep a good bit of distance between your cleric and the ratman, as he has a pretty large agro range. Once the ratman took the right turn and headed up towards Jaeil, I undead invised the cleric and made it to the safe ledge.
As far as having enough time to get a dueled corpse from the entrance to the safe ledge with a rogue. It took me 9:29 to drag a corpse there with hide and sneak on a level 1 halfling rogue. With the 10-minute rez timer, that wouldn't be enough time. I tried again with Scale of Wolf and made it in 4:12. This was with a corpse in tow (to make it as realistic as possible) and also stopping for a few seconds to check a map. So, if you run the path a couple of times to get a bit familiar with it, you can make it there in about 4 minutes with a corpse using Scale of Wolf. I didn't test Spirit of Wolf, but I would guess it would be about a 6-7 minute corpse drag.
So, after the mage is killed in a duel, let's say it takes 1 minute for him to respawn at his bind and consent the rogue. Then add 5 minutes (rounding 4:12 up) for the corpse drag to the safe ledge. That's 6 minutes so far. Add another 2 minutes to camp the rogue and log on the cleric who is parked on the safe ledge. That's a total of 8 minutes. Add another minute to cast the rez, that's a total of 9 minutes gone so far. So, even with generous estimates, you'd still have a minute to spare on the corpse's rez time if you use Scale of Wolf on the drag.
RE: Infiltrating to Epic Mobs
# Dec 05 2003 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
Well it seems that they parked gargoyles at the spot that you would park your cleric and he/she will be dead the second you log on. I found that out the hard way. The system worked good though, before the overhaul of the zone, and helped me with the ghost of kindle part of my chanter epic.
RE: Infiltrating to Epic Mobs
# May 08 2003 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I don't see this working. You can't rez a dueled corpse that's over 10 minutes old, even with reanimate.
RE: Infiltrating to Epic Mobs
# Feb 23 2004 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
I hope this little tip will contribute in a way :o)

Since dueled corpses cannot be reanimated after 10 minutes, then just have necro (that is if you got one with you) to sacrifice you and give you an emerald to keep from you sacrifice. Keep that emerald, you never know when you may need a rez and there is only a necro around to do it for you. Just being practical. :o)
Bypass the Fall Damage
# Feb 08 2003 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
113 posts
I have found that the easiest way to get into the zone while bypassing the city is to leap directly into the pit. Make sure you are looking straight down when you do it and /q (quit) out just before you hit bottom. When you log back in you will be safe and sound in the Hole (well at least sound, safe is always relative). There are 2 mobs that may agro you once you arrive, a flighty fiend and an elemental something. If they are far enough away you can run to the locked door where Master Yael spawns and you are safe there. I do recommend taking a mule down first to verify that Master Yael is not sitting at his post... that could prove rather troublesome.

I have used this method numerous times with my 54 shaman... I then use instill and turgars to manage the agroing mobs as the remainder of the party arrives.

a point of note... beware of the scalekeeper if you get agroed. He will jump in and assist if you get within his agro range while another mob is pounding on you. His 500+ HT and 1500 life tap made short work of me when I failed to take proper precautions.
Wulfgarin Dergeistdesmonds
RE: Bypass the Fall Damage
# Feb 24 2004 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
Just want to comment on how inventive some players are. It makes me happy to see so many good things people think of making the game so much better. I love grouping with smart people like that and learn from them.
RE: Bypass the Fall Damage
# Feb 24 2003 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
Great Advice!
Tested it out with a halfling rogue of Brell and worked just like you said. How did you get past the Scalekeeper? Do you invis and run by him?
Safe spots
# Jan 31 2003 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
Hi there

I hear people talking about a safe spot in the entrance, are we talking a safe spot where you can stand and nothing hits you like in CC and dalnirs? (pathing bug) or we talking about a spot where you can si a group and nothing agros? Just wanted to know because with a +25% exp bonus id love to stand and let the summon DDs fly :)
RE: Safe spots
# Feb 10 2003 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
Its a spot where when you enter and hop up out of the water you will not be immediately aggro'd. You will not be invulnerable to attack.
No need for a key
# Jan 19 2003 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
674 posts
(now i read below here someone posted for this, but maybe a second posting will help clarify?)

I have a halfling, I just wanted to let all the little people out there know a secret. If you are a gnome (id suppose) or a halfling you do not need a key. You can swim towards the bolder, and while swimming you go to the top of that bolder, there is a crack, and while swimming DUCK and unduck a few times. You can swim THROUGH that crack. Since I can gate and I have enduring breath, I checked it quite a few times to make sure I could do so. So I did not need a key. I had fallen from the paneel topside and a necro had to get the key, and then summon my body. I have NO clue where you end up if you fall from the top.... but if you are terribly despirate, do not have the cash for a key in bank, and you are a small race (with invis preferably). I would assume shrink will also alow you to slip through here.

Also. the whole reason i was here is because I did fall, and yes... it UNCLICKED my levitate. which never happens, if you zone through. Like if I zone from east common to west, while levitated... id stay so. Thats why I was so upset that a GM would not help me. yes... its an obvious pitfall, yes its part of the game to fall for traps. I am sure they would not help if you fell into that trap on your way to a rogue or shadowknight guild, or onto theose spikes in befallen. its supposed to be a trap. BUT... I was levitated.

Edited, Sun Jan 19 21:01:52 2003
'Valdon Gravedancer' Terris-Thule. Dwarven Cleric 34th circle.
'Junglebug Sugarpants' Terris-Thule. Halfling Druid. 52nd season.
'Shinook Eldergod' Terris-Thule. Troll Shaman of 32nd rite.
'Soultree Vixen' Terris-Thule. Woodelf Ranger of 34th season.
RE: No need for a key
# Aug 07 2003 at 4:27 AM Rating: Decent
98 posts
Its a trap which strips lev....there are others which strip invis etc...hence why its an evil trap.
RE: No need for a key
# Feb 22 2003 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
just let me say you dont need to be a small class... Ive had ogres go through the cracks. Just depends on the angle and how good you are at wiggling :)
why jump at all.
# Jan 17 2003 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
47 posts
Folks, look it is real easy. All you have to do is go like you are going to stonebrunt. You go to where the door is in the pool of water. Then all you have to do is duck and swim through one of the holes. Gnomes can do this the easiest because they are the smallest. The larger the race the harder it will be for them to pull this off. However, a simple wolf form will fix it right up. So dont jump, dont die. Just swim in. WHen you get in you will come to a pool. There should be enough room for a whole group to sit comfortably and not get jumped.
RE: why jump at all.
# Jan 18 2003 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
they jump because its a shortcut past a bunch of mobs they would rahter not have to fight
About that shortcut
# Jan 02 2003 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
When your Paladins, Shadowknights and Cleric drop into the whole, why don't you have warriors and your mage jump too? How will they survive the drop you ask? Well, the day before, I'd take your group to Highpass Hold. There is a named Orc there, forget his name, that drops a Shiny Brass Idol. It's a lore item, with 1 charge. It's effect? Divine Aura......
RE: About that shortcut
# Jan 19 2003 at 9:34 PM Rating: Default
674 posts
I am not so sure that will work. It unclicked my levitate. It basically de-buffed me and dropped me for 10,000. So I know for a fact, as having played a cleric Divine WILL protect you from any fall damage, but what I am saying is it might unclick it is all.

that, and the trouble to get the idol vs the cost of the key are pretty much the same if not more...

however I think the idol is instant, maybe click on the way down? lol. I had a good 3-4 seconds to think about my dimise before I heard the crunch.

Edited, Sun Jan 19 21:09:31 2003
'Valdon Gravedancer' Terris-Thule. Dwarven Cleric 34th circle.
'Junglebug Sugarpants' Terris-Thule. Halfling Druid. 52nd season.
'Shinook Eldergod' Terris-Thule. Troll Shaman of 32nd rite.
'Soultree Vixen' Terris-Thule. Woodelf Ranger of 34th season.
RE: About that shortcut
# Feb 24 2004 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
While Valdon is most probably correct, I think having a fast PC with lots of memory is important here. Every second counts. If you are a slow zoner you may not have a good chance of clicking instant DA or doing /q. My boyfriend's pc so damn slow that he sometimes zones in KC and gets a good beating before he sees who what where. lol
RE: About that shortcut
# May 08 2003 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
Entering the Hole debuffs spells with a levitate component; lev, SOE, DMF, etc. It doesn't debuff other spells, so it would leave DA and Harmshield alone.
RE: About that shortcut
# Jan 02 2003 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
His name is Vopuk Shralok. The only problem is, you'd have to spend HOURS there to get one. I fought in that spot a lot when I was around lvl 20, and only one dropped the whole time I was there.

If you're ready for the Hole, you can probably afford to BUY a shiny brass idol in the bazaar though. It'd be a lot faster. However, I am guessing you could fight your way into the Hole faster than you could pick up shiny brass idols, so I don't know if it qualifies as a shortcut.
Tracking Yael?
# Dec 15 2002 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
Where would a druid with max tracking (our uber 125 skill) have to stand to check if Yael is up? If you can please make reference to the eqatlas map ) Any info would be appreciated
Shortcut to the bottom
# Dec 03 2002 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
179 posts
If you have connections with several 51+ Paladins or Shadow Knights, a necro (if there are no SK's)and a 55+ mage you can use a method my friends and I have been using to take shortcuts down into the Hole.

Gather around 3 to 4 Paladins or SK's all 51+, have at least one Cleric in the group too. All will cast DA/HS and jump down the hole in Paineel. They will survive the fall. Obviously let the Pallys and SK's go first with the cleric following. This is enough to take on the mobs below and clear the room. Once the room is cleared the necro can cast HS and jump down.

At this time have the Mage duel someone at the entrance to the Hole and die. The necro or Shadow Knight will need to summon the corpse right away and have a cleric or pally ready to rez. The rez timers don't last long anymore on dueled deaths so you need to be quick. The mage of course can just jump down the Hole and get a rez that way if they don't mind losing 4% of thir XP. This of course is the only option if there's no necro or SK around.

Once the mage is over it's simply CoTH everyone over while everyone else keeps the bottom clear.

That's it! The whole city has been bypassed. This is a great way to get raids over to take down the epic mobs for the Pally, Shaman, Chanter and Rangers.

Good Luck!

Edited, Tue Dec 3 13:11:54 2002
RE: Shortcut to the bottom
# Dec 04 2002 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
It seems like I read that if you JUMP into the hole rather than just FALL in, you will take like 700-900pts damage instead of the 10,000.

The strategy I read was to send down a Brell-worshipping rogue to scope the place out and give you the all clear. Then the (buffed up) team up top JUMPS into the hole. If done properly, everyone will survive. If not, well, let's hope the Cleric does!

I have not tested this for myself,
RE: Shortcut to the bottom
# Dec 04 2002 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
Just to clarify some things: DA/HS stands for Harshield and Divine Aura (18 & 20 second invulnerability spells), and CoTH is Call of the Hero (Lvl 55 spell which summons group members to the mage.

Question about CotH: since you can only summon group members to the mage, if you had 3 or 4 groups would the initial jump team have to all be in seperate groups so they could later invite the mage for the COTH summons?
RE: Shortcut to the bottom
# Feb 24 2004 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
3,705 posts
Usually, the coth strategy, the way I've seen it done, is to just group 1 mage and 1 druid. Then Succor the druid back to zone, invite 4 people, Coth them, and they drop and reform their group. invite 4 more, Coth.....

Now in the case of the hole, assuming the landing spot is safe, Just DA the cleric, toss him in, then toss in a harmshielded SK. Both arrvie undamaged at bottom, with mage in their group. Someone duels mage, who zones back in, and SK summons corpse. Cleric rezzes corpse.

Now you have the mage at bottom, with no exp loss. After a hit on the mod rod (have this summoned ahead of time, and on the corpse) and maybe a little medding, the CoTHing begins. Coth in a chanter and/or BL first, to get mage mana regen going, and soon you are all happily planted at the bottom.
RE: Shortcut to the bottom
# Feb 24 2004 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
Right Daxil, that is the only way a mage can COH, is if that person is in his group. So ppl will just have to reinvite till last person is COH'd.

Yevdokia Romanova
65 mage with 107 AAs
Veeshan server

Edited, Tue Feb 24 09:29:23 2004
RE: Shortcut to the bottom
# Dec 04 2002 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
179 posts
All you need is for one person in the mages group to be by the zone. That person would be leader of the group. Once you're ready to CoTH you would have everyone but the mage and leader leave the group. The leader then invites 4 people into the group. Those 4 get summoned one by one and when they are done they disband. The leader then invites the next 4 and so on till there's no one else left. Then the leader gets summoned over.

If somone shows up late you can always have a level 1 Halfling Rogue Mule on Brell faction to get invited into the group with the mage. Just get them binded outside in Paineel and park them at a safe spot deep in. Off to the side of the tower or in Kirns room are relative safe spots. Once invited make the rogue leader and he'll then commit suicide bringing him back up top to the zone. Simply just invite the person at the zone who needs to be CoTHed.
# Nov 15 2002 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
OK, yall wanna know the low down, here it is, i am a lv 54 druid, and have been going in and out of there 3 or 4 timees a day with different groups, and heres the easiest way to get in if u dont have a rog with u, group wolf form, u walk through he holes in the wall just like it was open is very easy.for me to go in there is a group min that must be met, chanter, tank, monk/sk cleric, < is a must b4 i go, other spot are random people. we get to pipe very easy. as we pull we dont get that much for adds as our puller never comes to the group he stays at bottom of ramp and the rest of us kill mobs, if at any time our cleric goes OOM and we have more then 2 mobs we evac, after all its very easy for us to get in, its just hard to get in naked, so we evac and work way back, we can get there in 5 min eqiped but takes half hr to get in naked, by no means am i saying i know the zone, but from enterance to the pipe, i got that mastered, after all i am druid, why should i run around and find the mob they come to me, :)

somethin else thats good, have ur cleric bind just outside the zone, it helps if u dont have to go far to get the cleric,
Is it possible?
# Oct 17 2002 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
Me and some friends have been tentivly exploring this place and using it to grind out our levels due to the massive bonus here. When we get down to the halfpipe is when we start to run into problems. Its not that we can't handle the mobs, but its the endless adds. I'm the enchanter and after having to mezz the initial 3-4 mob pull from the first bulding, I run out of mana and we have to evac out after the 8th or 9th add. They just keep coming from clear across the way near that far corner and from inside the first building.

What I would like to know is if its possible to break up that initial pull. Our monk could not split them due to the huge aggro radius. He would FD and all three would walk away or when he popped back up the others would come running from wherever they are. I won't pretend that I know how to pull being that I'm the enchanter but I'm hoping one of you folks could enlighten me a bit on how you do it. We aren't high enough to just pull singles from level differential but we can kills these things and have been. I just run out of mezz with 210 intel.

Our little group level ranges from 46 <me> and the rest are 52-54.

I know the obvious thing is to kill them faster so not having to constantly remezz but can we split these suckers up some?
RE: Is it possible?
# Jan 19 2003 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
674 posts
I have not been there, but you can do a few things. Like for example mezzing the mob or mind whiping to pull. or a monk flop. Or there are buffs to make the agro very low, like a lot of people use LULL and other crappy cleric agro things on the mob... believe it or not LULL works better to use ON a player. That lowers their agro radius down to like 1 foot. I think thats why they fail so often, I think they are ment to be used on players. There are a ton of pulling options but I have not been here to help more. Try to be innovative. You could even (as far as i have seen with high mez) you could mez and get one and get out of agro radius.
'Valdon Gravedancer' Terris-Thule. Dwarven Cleric 34th circle.
'Junglebug Sugarpants' Terris-Thule. Halfling Druid. 52nd season.
'Shinook Eldergod' Terris-Thule. Troll Shaman of 32nd rite.
'Soultree Vixen' Terris-Thule. Woodelf Ranger of 34th season.
Maybe a silly question, but...:)
# Sep 04 2002 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
We took a group to the Hole last night, with the lowest level being me (52 Wiz) and the highest being a 56 ranger. I only tell you this because we all died at least once... most of those mobs have WIDE aggro ranges, so be careful. :)
My question is this. I looted a couple of items that I have not been able to find on any searches and I have no clue what they are for. The first one was called "Living Heart of a Brell Minion", that seems pretty cool.:) It is magic/lore but not nodrop. Any info on this would help, I am thinking quest item.
The second item was a "Firey Jewel of the Underfoot". I am unsure if it was magic/lore but it was not nodrop. (I got this just before we gave up, I was pretty tired lol) I do know the vendor in Felwithe offered me 72pp for it, so it may just be vendor fodder, but I wanted to be certain it was not a quest item or some super rare thing before I sell it. :)
Any help in this would be sooo appreciated. I need to go back to the Hole at some point, I want that ore, but I think I will wait a few levels, still a bit young to go past the ent apparently. :)

Layonya Drivensnow
52nd Channeler
Blades of Light
RE: Maybe a silly question, but...:)
# Nov 21 2002 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
Looted some Dull Black Ore there last night any clues?
[:yikes:] Observation Tower Door Key
# Aug 25 2002 at 12:03 PM Rating: Decent
Hey yall. Smiley: confused I can run in and out of the Hole as my Main 52nd Season Shaman with crew, or with my 27th lvl rogue of Brell ... bought the key to the Hole, but doesn't work on the Observation Tower door. Smiley: banghead I remember seeing somewhere that there is a KEY that works, but dang if i can find it here or on Everlore. Anyone have a clue? Smiley: sly I really want to be able to open that silly door and walk out with my rogue laughing all the way.
RE: [:yikes:] Observation Tower Door Key
# Oct 28 2002 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
I've not seen a key, but it's very pickable(once fatally for a rogue a couple months back). If you want to go through, follow the left wall down and there will be an entryway to the castle in the lower area. Don't go to far- the ratmen and yael aggro anyone, even if brellies, and a ratman wanders the observatory hall and if you can get to yael, youre going a bit too far :P.

note... you can get by the ratman with vis.
# Aug 16 2002 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
Could a lvl 51 mage solo the entrance?
I gather the mobs come in pairs. If my pet engages one, will the other go for the pet or for me?

RE: Soloing
# Jan 05 2003 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
i play a 51 mage on errolis marr, and yes you can solo the ent. If your not realy realy good at chain casting pets and ******** around with agro don't even try. first pull when it's not broke you will get three or 4 at a time, i went through 6 pets trying to eat thru them the last time i broke it. but it is safe, the zone is right there and the exp rizzocks. i make about 10% in mabey half an hour doing the hall way and all the way back to the tower. the golem sucks though takes me 4 or 5 pets to take him down. make sure you break the spawns up alot too, it sucks when the hall starts poping and your pet is on two crusaders already. oh, and don't pull with dmging spells down there, you will get too much agro. i ussually just send my pet in and through in a few banish summons when there low. GL
Everything you wanted to know about the hole
# Aug 11 2002 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
The hole is a very good xp dungeon- provided that you know what you're doing. Before I can start this, you need to know how to get into the hole.

Before you know that- a good corpse recovery mule is a rogue under brell, who will be aggrod by 1) cazic factols in the tower 2) ratmen.

There are four ways to get into the hole. The first one is a key for 120pp, or have a rogue lpick the door. There is also clipping, one point is in the middle of the door, facing it you will see a rock slanted to resemble a /, . Swim to where the comma is and clip into the rock by crouching. The second is a rock on top shaped like a bent finger. Crouch under and clip through it and drop down over into the water and swim through.

*Advanced entering for raids*
There is a way to circumvent that 10k fall. It's rather difficult, however. First you must insert a corpse recovery mule via docks(later) to the hole bottom. He must then wait there for mobs to clear by and then say to the raid 'clear'. Then there is the way to change the 10k fall down to 800 normally. Simply jump before you fall into the hole and you will fall for 600-900 points of damage. In order to do this, rune enchanters for drop in and cast celestial heals before people jump. They will all land in the same spot, which has a wanderer crossing by(I believe when yael is down, and Nortlav the Scalekeeper is up). Cels will give them a bit of hp after they land and EVERYONE must swim into the water pool until everyone has inserted.

There are a few safe areas in the hole, they are such:
Entryway- the worst xp spot in the zone is the foyer. There is a safe spot where you jump up onto the ledge all the way forward and can stand there. You can bind on the broken, and slippery pillar safely.

Halfpipe- To reach the halfpipe simply proceed forward from the entryway and hug the left wall until you drop into a U shaped pit that has a ramp leading off of it. That is the safe point, anywhere else in the castle/halfpipe yard will aggro and often wipe out groups.

Jail- From halfpipe, hug the left wall and pass through into the castle. Keep hugging the left wall until you pass through the second opening into a hallway that is a T intersection. Take a right, and walk down into the stairs area. The landing etc is clear of patrolling mobs.

City- This area is reached by taking a left instead. It's a city, and as such is very big and confusing to pull through. There's not much safety here, the potter is decent as are some other buildings. Beware- you can get up to 8 with one pull in this area.

Docks- Proceed through the nightmare that is navigating the city area and you will come to the docks. This is the second insert point for the bottom of the hole. To go down, walk straight out from the falls and into the water. If you want to pull to here, there is a V shaped area of land and a rock golem patrols that and the docks. You can pull into the water from here, but this is not as good as the jail hall for pulls, nor nearly as easy to reach.

Tower- The tower in the back has cazic-thule diety guards surrounding it. Commander Yarik is here, and the cast here is mainly 49 to 54. To reach it you can use the docks-drop method and hug the left wall, or you can try to find the ramp down in the city. This is a difficult and dangerous spot: the wanderers are highly resistant to mezz, and some can only be mezzed with Glamour of Kintaz. I don't suggest a group attempt it without an enc set to handle these higher resist mobs.

City Potter- In the city you'll find a house that you can take a stairway up to the 2nd floor to enter. There's only 1 elemental inside, and so far I've not been aggrod while standing in the room. It has a good 4 corners, and makes the best AE spot in this zone. There are no nearby rock golems, and theres a huge number of elementals in the surrounding area. Often an AE group's biggest problem is lack of mobs. This area shouldn't suffer from that. Finding this building is a matter of its own. The bugger is in the middle of the city area, and I can't find any good directions for it.

Observatory Hall- The observatory is the first small building you'll pass in the hole on your way down. The hall in front of it has lots of pulls for a group with enough muscle to take it. I do not suggest that you try this spot with an enc below level 54, but the rate of pulling is excellent.

Yael / Scale Keeper
He's up right in front of the door that resembles the mouth of something's head. The door is locked. I am not sure if yael will aggro during drop down method if you don't invis to lower aggro radius, so it's wise to keep it up.

The hole is especially good for the loot. All of the elementals have a chance to randomly drop loam encrusted armor pieces. They vary; some are excellent for enchanters only and others good for all casters. The boots for instance are 8cha 8agi 8dex ac4. Imbued Granite Spaulders are good for any tank, despite the huge weight- they come from rock golems and ratmen... Smoldering Brands drop off the caster elementals/ratmen, and mudman enforcers come from the rock golems.

The best safe place to fight is the jail hall, followed by the halfpipe pit. You can also do the tower, however, that is often a pain to reach and hard on the chanter.

Edited, Mon Oct 28 22:59:02 2002
RE: Everything you wanted to know about the hole
# Dec 19 2002 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
That's a pretty good post. Let me add a few tips and comments:

1. If you're just going to the pit, going to the halfpipe can be risky if you are inexperienced. If you wind up aggroing the mobs around the castle entrance, you can get in trouble fast. Consider going the other direction -- right instead of left. When you jump over the ledge, you will take a small amount of damage. There will be one mob right there, and you'll have to fight it immediately. You can then pull the other pit mobs at your leisure and set up camp wherever you want. There is little risk that you'll wind up with six mobs right away, which can happen to an inexperienced group over by the halfpipe.

2. If you're going deeper than the pit, everyone in the group needs to understand that handling rock golems is what will make or break your group. The level 54 rock golems cannot be mezzed, and you will occasionally hit one of those fairly high in the zone. In most cases, the rock golems need to be the first mobs you kill, even before named elementals.

3. There is another safe spot in the city. After you pass The Slab, you go down a hallway that has a right turn that brings you to a T intersection. I believe that the building right in front of you is the jewelry store. The building behind that one is the mushroom shop with Polzin Mhid. Anyway, if you take the T intersection to the right, you will come to a pool. That is a safe spot as long as you stay back in the corner. This is the usual pull spot for the jewelry store.

4. There is also a safe spot next to the undead tower. As you come to the entrance, if you take a hard right you will come to a ledge that overlooks the area with Yael. The ledge is safe. Some people camp out a cleric or a mage there for raid purposes.

5. Deep in the city, there is a shop called The Strong Box or The Lock Box or something like that. There is a hidden passage in the back that leads to a room with several mobs called Mimics. These look like the haunted chests from Hate. They drop a key that is used for the SK epic. I have heard that this key will also open the door in the skyway that would take you back to the zone-in, but I've never tested that.

6. Always have your halfling rogue created and bound in Paineel before you start. This can be a huge time saver. All you need is a level 1 halfling rogue of Brell. With rare exceptions, the see invis mobs (elementals, golems, and fiends) will not aggro the rogue (they are minions of Brell), and the rogue can sneak/hide past the ratmen and undead. If you need to CR, try to get someone to SoW the rogue in Paineel. When the corpses are pulled up to the drop-off spot at the pit, just have the rogue suicide and zone back in from Paineel. The rogue can pull the corpses up over the ledge and back to the entrance.
#Valdon, Posted: Jan 19 2003 at 9:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) wow, can you say "lawsuit" ? I believe Origin coined the phrase "mimic". I totally understand everyone rips off TSR, and dungeon and dragons... or most, if not all, roll play games have the same elements. But a Mimic, I believe... is exclusive to Ultima...
RE: Mimic is a mimic'ed nicked name
# Jan 22 2003 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
BZZZZZZ wrong answer.

The "Mimic" was a monster in D & D. Generally in the form of a false stone-looking "floor" in a room with a chest-looking thing in the middle of the "Floor". If you checked out the "Chest", the "Floor" enveloped you to attack. Close kin to the "Lurker Above" which was a false stone ceiling that levitated at the ceiling and dropped on passers-by to envelope them.

Also in various fantasy fiction the same essential thing is represented.
RE: Mimic is a mimic'ed nicked name
# Jan 29 2003 at 7:21 PM Rating: Excellent
202 posts
Thank you hamhands. 100% correct.

Poor young'uns just don't know their roots do they? They never even heard of the Monster Manual much less MM2, the Fiend Folio, or Unearthed Arcana.

Most fantasy computer games steal blantantly from D&D.

Why doesn't TSR/Wizards of the Coast sue for copyright infringement you may ask? That's because Gary Gygax the "creator"* of D&D used every piece of mythology he could and then ripped every fantasy writer that he could off to fill "his"* game with interesting things to fight. Any lawsuit to such an effect would be thrown out of court for a number of reasons.

* These words quoted because although he would like to claim that he created the game on his own - Gygax didn't do it himself, yet he retains all credit for it.
RE: Mimic is a mimic'ed nicked name
# Feb 25 2003 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
101 posts
Cause TSR took about two thirds of thier "original work" from Tolkien
If you are small you don't need a key
# May 25 2002 at 2:52 PM Rating: Default
I've been taking a little ribbing for 51 seasons about being small (gnomie wiz) however it paid off when it comes to this zone.

When you enter the pool, there is a gap in the rocks that gnomes, and maybe halflings, and dorfs can swim through (Upper right side).

Understand this...You will need DMF or Enduring Breath to make the swim comfortably. You might get by with MAX swimming skills. But until you know the route, get the spell off a necro, or shammy, chanter.

Once you zone into the hole, the dmf will dissapear, so get the surface, and don't go running down the ledge once you get out of the water. Stay by the edge of the pool till your entire party is up, or you'll be soloing.
RE: If you are small you don't need a key
# Sep 19 2002 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
As a barbarian shaman I can make Ants Potion which is a shrink potion and usable indoors as well as outdoor. Would drinking this allow me to get through this hole without any problems?
RE: If you are small you don't need a key
# Jun 14 2002 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
240 posts
Actually by using ducking and unducking while moving forward aimed at the hole on top of the rock all but large races can get through (ie barb troll ogre).
The Power of Hate conquers all foes.
Leader of The Silent Minority a Rathe Guild
RE: If you are small you don't need a key
# Jun 14 2002 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
110 posts
Actually, barbarians too can use the swim, twist, duck and unduck routine to squeeze through the hole.
RE: If you are small you don't need a key
# May 25 2002 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default

looks like i need to update my signature.
What lvl??
# May 14 2002 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
What lvl does the halfling rogue have to be? I dont have any, so i plan on creating but since i died yeterday i only have 6 days to get corpse before.....*gulp* . so i wont have time to get the rogue very high :/
RE: What lvl??
# Oct 28 2002 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
Honestly theres only 1 mob in the entire zone that will prove trouble. It's the ratman right in front of the observatory. If you're CRing, grab an invis from the party and he won't bother you most likely. I've been asked to retrieve now 45+ corpses from this zone, and it's never failed. I even got a corpse from under yael, though it took 2 cr mules to team up for it.
RE: What lvl??
# Sep 03 2002 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
The reason why we say halfling rogue instead of dwarven rogue is halflings start with a 50 Hide and sneak skill by default no need to train it better chance of hide and sneak working and dont have to level to get the ablities...

I CR here with a level 1 halfing and I been everywhere in the zone but up on the other side of the entrnace bridge (the way out no one takes)
RE: What lvl??
# May 08 2003 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
If you're going to be spending a lot of time in the Hole, it's worth going a little further.

- Make your Brell rogue (it would probably be okay to be a dorf, since you're going to level him up, but I went halfling)

- Powerlevel him to 6 and train lockpick (and hide if you're a dorf)

- Head to befallen and max out your lockpick skills

You probably don't need the skill maxed to open the entrance rock in the Paineel pool, but it's quicker to max it than to figure it out. It might be that you don't need anything beyond your training point.

Now you can hide/sneak everywhere - I'm not sure that there's a limit to the halfling racial hide, but I've heard of rats seeing through a level 1's sneak hide, and I've never had any trouble.

But you can also open the rock for raids. A lot of large races have trouble getting through the crack, and even some smaller races have trouble figuring it out. Plus when there are a lot of you attempting, you can't get near the rock while the troll in front of you is trying to get through. Opening the rock with your lockpicks really speeds things up.

When you're CRing, drag everyone to the ramp after the drop off. Then find yourself a friendly golem, hit it, and die. (You did bind at the pond in Paineel, didn't you? Whoops...) Now come back in - your lockpicks stayed on your body since you haven't hit level 10 - get back to the drop off and /corpse everything across. Now it's an easy drag back to entrance.

Incidentally, don't worry that most of the elementals see through sneak hide and SCOWL at you. They still don't attack. I recreated my rogue a couple of times because I thought I'd done something stupid and screwed up my faction. You don't even need sneak hide around elementals, so don't use it between the entrance and the first building, it just slows you down. You do need sneak hide for the rats. Con one and make sure it's indifferent before getting close.
RE: What lvl??
# May 15 2002 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
240 posts
Have seen it done with a 3rd lvl rogue. Heard a rumor of a change to the brell faction part that makes this harder but haven't seen that confirmed. Get a halfling brell rogue up to 3rd lvl and con the entry mobs. The elementals should not be KOS if the faction hasn't changed. Give it a shot at sneak/hiding your way down. But be prepared to call in a SK or necro for a corpse summon if it fails.
The Power of Hate conquers all foes.
Leader of The Silent Minority a Rathe Guild
RE: What lvl??
# Aug 27 2002 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
Actually This zone is funky for faction. I had a lvl 1 brell rogue here and most mobs con'd scowling. I was able to walk right up to them and hail them however. I'd con them again and theyd be dubious. Not sure what thats about. The Ratmen and the Revnants will definatly aggro though. Hide/Sneak works however and will get you all the way down from what I could tell.

# May 02 2002 at 10:39 PM Rating: Decent
One group of 56+ went in and got everywhere we wanted to go. Partly this is exp playing together, partly its the lower aggro because of the level of the party members compared to the denizens of the Hole. This place is flat out easy, we do the jail all the time for exp without an enc, just need a rogue for that high dps and you can keel da big chit fast, sk can mez adds with aggro. Good luck to all raiders here, this zone is underutilized and underappreciated ;p
RE: 56+
# Aug 19 2002 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
Try the tower at 56+(enc will want GOK, or he will have a hard time). To get there, you can go through the city to the tunnel down, or jump over the waterfalls at the docks and go up - beware yael, nortlav wont aggro though since he sulks in a corner. Another way is to put a mule at the bottom of the pit to see when it's clear, then drop an invis group by JUMPING into the hole for about 700pts as opposed to 10,000. Any dmg over 600 gets upgraded to 10k if you do not jump first, if I recall correctly. I never checked this with my 56 bard's safe fall, but I noticed a monk falling for 10k damage from US Velk's.

Your enc will probably want to use GOK on the wanderers. The ghosts all drop IGS, Brands, and stuff that puts Jarcrap to shame!
One way Zone?
# Feb 25 2002 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Me and several friends where going to go and adventure in this zone, but we have heard that it is a one way zone, meaning we cant zone back out without an evac or a key that drops in the hole. Is there any truth to this rumor?
RE: One way Zone?
# Mar 08 2002 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
240 posts
The zone in is not one way. However after the entry way is cleared you come to an area where you must have a rogue that can pick the lock on the door or jump off a cliff. Once you go off the cliff you must have and evac or fight your way to the same door from the other side and be able to pick it. You can get nice XP in the 50-55 range just from the mobs at the zone in and most of the loot is random through the zone so you can get anything at the zone in. The zone in area is safe. Its when you start to move in a bit that you hit the first mobs. and they come in pairs so have crowd control. For the epic mobs you need an evac out to make life easy.
The Power of Hate conquers all foes.
Leader of The Silent Minority a Rathe Guild
RE: One way Zone?
# Oct 20 2002 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
627 posts
Once you get to the ledge, you can't jump/run back up so non casters can't gate out but our enchantered dueled our paladin, gravity fluxed and voila, both were up on the ledge. I used my Thurg gate potion and the cleric gated out. 60 enc, 60 pal, 57 rog, 56 clr. We didn't have the DPS to move beyond the docks so after a few hours we gave up and started to head back. Every time we started to proceed further beyond the docks we'd have 3-4 adds. We had up to 7 mezzed at one point.

The docks make a nice place to pull to, though. You only have 2 golems that spawn there but each side of the docks you have space to fight and not have them aggro (at least for our level). They walk away when low hp so either root or chain stun to keep them from reaching the other side of the wall and having a few more adds on you.

After a few hours there, we didn't have much loot to show except a smoldering brand and a bunch of plat (400).
RE: One way Zone?
# Apr 29 2002 at 6:07 AM Rating: Default
A rogue CANNOT pick this lock at all.

Returns : you are not holding the key.

anyone ever found a key for this door?, i would like to know.
RE: One way Zone?
# May 20 2002 at 8:51 PM Rating: Default
Are you nutz??? I am a Rogue and I pick the lock all the time
Try holding your lockpicks in your hand while clicking on the door, it might help.

Just a thought from your neighborly pickpocket 8P

If it's mine, it's mine
If it's yours, it should be mine
If it's on you, IT WILL BE MINE

Edited, Mon May 20 21:55:36 2002
RE: One way Zone?
# May 08 2003 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I think this may have changed. I finally found my way up the tower to the overhead walkway last night with my rogue. Trying to open the door gives "the door is locked and you are not holding the key", which I expected. Trying to pick the lock gave "this lock cannot be picked", which is the same message you get trying to open the door from the outside.

If you can't gate, and you don't have a porter, duel-die and have your rogue drag to entrance. Be prepared to come back to pick up your corpse, it will likely take more than ten minutes for the rogue to get you out (since that involves the rogue suiciding to get back to the entrance side of the drop off) and your duel rez timer will have expired.
Jaeil the Wretched
# Jan 09 2002 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
Doing the ranger epic and would like to know how hard it is to break in to this guy, and how difficult he is to defeat when we get there.
RE: Jaeil the Wretched
# Jan 09 2002 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
This is a very difficult question to answer because I have no idea what your skill level is, the size of your raiding party, and your familiarity with the zone. I have taken a party of 6, with no cleric, down there all the way to High Scale Kirn, which is past Jaeil the Wretched. I have spent a lot of time in the Hole, I know the spawn and pull points and I was playing with some of the best equipped and skilled players on my server. However, your situation may be different.
One word of caution about the Hole and traveling through the city area on the way to Jaeil. The mob concentration is very high. Taking a ton of people with you is not the best approach. Taking at most 3 groups of 50ish players is probably enough. 2 groups of mid 50's. The enchanter will be your best friend in this zone. Like I said, the mobs are packed pretty tight in some areas and multiple mob pulls are hard to avoid. Some areas you will end up with 5 or 6 ar more at atime if you are not careful. The way down to Jaeil is pretty tough but I think a well seasoned 2 groups can do it.
Killing Jaeil himself is not all that difficult, he cons blue at 60, so he is not an uber mob by any means. My advice is not to bring too many people becasue that is just a walking mob aggro invitation. Take 2 solid groups with 2 skilled enchanters and you will be fine. Good luck.
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