The only difference between the Ranks of this spell is the base mana cost to cast it, and the base damage done by the Strike. When it first came out, it seemed to me that each succeeding Strike did more damage than the previous one; ie, if I cast Mana Recursion Rk. II upon myself and it proc'd 3x off of a nuke, the first Strike would be 875dd, second Strike would be 910dd, and the third Strike would be 945dd. However, since the nerf, I've noticed that ALL Strikes (again, for the Rk. II spell) are 875dd. With maxxed crit AAs, each Strike crits for exactly the same amount of damage (2100), so it seems they've changed the formula.
The Strikes themselves are Chromatic-based, no modifier. I've seen them be fully-resisted, and partially-resisted.
A single nuke can produce up to 3 Mana Recursion Strikes, each of which can crit. I have seen it proc 3x on more than a few occasions, though it is by no means common. With all nuke AAs maxxed, you can land a single nuke for around 11k damage. This depends, of course, on the nuke itself (Polychromatic Assault Rk. II) critting, Mana Recursion proc'ing 3x off of that nuke, and each of the Mana Recursion Strikes critting; all for full damage.
Before the nerf, this spell lasted 2 minutes (more, depending on Buff extension AAs/Foci; mine lasts 3:24). Now, it lasts for 2 minutes (base) OR 20 procs...whichever comes first. This doesn't really affect Enchanters that much; even with a good Detrimental Spell Haste Focus, nuking constantly (ie, casting Polychromatic Assault Rk. II as fast as the spell gem refreshed), I reached the 20 proc limit just as the spell was about to expire.
This limit WILL adversely affect those with quick-casting nukes (Wizards especially, but also Magicians), causing Mana Recursion to drop much more quickly than the imposed time limit. Considering the recast delay on the spell, and the fact that we do not have a group version (unlike the Shaman's "Panther" line), this once again cripples what could have been an extremely useful grouping/raiding tool.
SOE stated that they implemented this nerf because Wizards were putting out some rather frightful numbers with this spell, causing Necromancers to complain about Wizards encroaching on their "soloing supremacy".
Obviously, SOE never stopped to think that, if a Wizard was prancing around "soloing" with this spell up, it was because he had an Enchanter nearby (either a friend, or as a boxed buff-bot) to constantly refresh it. By placing a limit on the number of procs this spell produces, they did NOT interfere with the Wizard engaging in this practice AT ALL; his buff-bot is standing by, ready to recast it whenever it's needed. What it DID do, is render US useless as anything BUT a "24-hour standby Mana Recursion buff-bot"; we simply cannot maintain this spell on any more than 2-3 people, thanks to the crippling limitations of spell duration, recast delay, and now the proc limit.
I personally don't know of ANY Guild who has 1 (active main) Enchanter per 2 nukers; too many of us have either switched to a Class that wasn't crippled (Clerics, generally) or quit EQ entirely. They've made some substantive strides recently in reversing the obsolescence of our Class, but it seems they're still so frightened of us that any useful spell given us must immediately be castrated for fear we'll over-run Norrath and render all other Classes useless. Honestly, can you imagine them doing this to the Shaman's "Panther" line, just because someone complained that a Ranger that had this buff could (hypothetically) approach the DPS of a Rogue that didn't?
Please join me in sending in daily /feedback regarding the Mana Recursion nerf. The spell was fine as-is, due to the limited duration and the recast delay; it's simply unusable now (as anything but a self-buff) with the addition of limited procs. Otherwise, they should just make this spell self-only, reduce the mana cost by 1/2 (or increase the duration by a factor of 10x), and let us awaken to the realization that, once again, they've provided us with a spell that looks good on paper...but sucks in practice. It'd fit right in with the other 90% of our spells (and AAs) that are completely useless.
We shouldn't be penalized because they gave Wizards insta-cast nukes that made the Necromancers cry (when do they not?) about Wizards being able to "solo better than a Necro". Nor should we suffer yet another blow to our already-inexistent grouping/raiding viability. Long ago, we sacrificed the ability to solo (effectively) in return for spells/buffs/abilities that made us indispensible to groups and raids. SOE has made sure that groups and raids no longer need us, but we're still saddled with the limitations of their "Class envisionment" of Enchanters being dependent on others to gain xp or even just stay alive. Remember, Clerics were also "envisioned" as a purely support-oriented Class; but SOE's given them the tools (Vow of Valor, Ward of Reprisal, Yaulp VIII) to solo more effectively than any Melee or Hybrid Class ever could.
Our true role is to improve the abilities of those around us to the degree that we make a significant contribution to a group (or raid), albeit indirectly. It seems SOE needs to be reminded of the "significant" aspect.
Mana Recursion
|
Vesanus, Eater of Souls wrote:
it's simply unusable now
our role hasn't really changed. this spell just adds a little extra dps when needed. when crowd control is not an issue and your group role is buffs/dps, load it and nuke your *** off. in a raid situation, when dps needs as much as they can get, toss it on a couple of wizards. my guild typically has three people that can cast this on raids, which more than covers our wizards and mages.
it's a great tool and i'm happy to have it. pull your head out and realize that enchanters are still the most powerful class in the game (if you understand the roles we play and how to modify them slightly to match the group/raid needs at the time).
Enchanters are still the most powerful class in the game.
Uhh...no. I've been around since 1999, I've seen all the changes come and go. Once, we were the most powerful Class in the game, but that heyday has long since passed. Not that long ago, we were the most crippled Class in the game; but thankfully, SOE has seen fit to make strides towards giving us a reason to exist again.
There are those who claim Enchanters are the most worthless and obsolete of all the Classes as they now currently exist; there are those, like yourself, who still operate in the rosy afterglow of the PoP-era Enchanter heyday. The truth is somewhere in between.
I still hold that SOE needs to tweak this spell some more. Considering the latest nerf was applied because of the 0.1% of Wizards who "soloed" with a 'chanter-bot, I see no reason why Enchanters had to be punished as a whole. How would the Shaman Class react if their "Talisman of the Panther Rk. II" was suddenly changed from 1187 mana and a duration of 1 minute / unlimited procs to 2600+ mana for a duration of 1 minute or 30 procs, whichever came first?
Consider that this spell takes 875 mana for a single-target buff that fades in either 2 minutes or 30 procs and has a recast delay of 30 seconds, as opposed to the Shaman group Panther that takes 1187 mana and lasts 1 minute / unlimited procs and has a recast delay of 5.625 seconds?
I bring this disparity up not because I believe Enchanters should be able to solo red /cons easily (or even at all). I accept that the trade-off for having the buffs we do (which are supposed to make groups/raids as dependent on us, as we are on them) is the fact that we are almost entirely dependent on others for our own survival. I am simply saying that, for all of the weaknesses inherent in our Class, we need better buffs.
To put it simply: Am I "happy to have it"? Sure; it beats the hell outta nothing at all. But I'm pathetically grateful for anything that makes a group or raid tolerate the fact I'm gimping their DPS by filling that last slot. But I don't want to be tolerated...I want to be desired. I want raid groups to fight over who gets me, the way they do over Shaman. I'd like to be the prima donna; the diva; the belle of the ball. But I'll settle for being able to make a substantial contribution to a group or raid. As it stands right now, as a raiding Enchanter, my Haste is the only thing without which they refuse to live; even C7 can be done away with, if you're patient enough to take a few minutes' break in between boss mobs.
This is a nice buff, to be sure, especially when weighed against its predecessor (Mana Flare). And I recognize that so many Enchanters are afraid to say anything, for fear the few buffs we have remaining to us that are worth anything will also be lost. But as the "masters of the mind", and since Charm is forever lost to us as a primary Class-defining role, we NEED buffs that make us as necessary and as desired among spell-casters as Shaman are among melees.
Hell, even the spell-casters prefer a Shaman to an Enchanter...and it's not because we're all whiny 'tards who constantly complain about how crippled we are. (Just to head that off at the pass.) It's a well-known fact that the only people Enchanters complain to, are other Enchanters. Just ask SOE; if we complained to them half as much as we did to each other, we'd be better off than even the Necromancers are.
So, pardon me for believing that this spell can be, and in fact should be, so much more than it currently is. All I ask is they either remove the proc limitation, or give us a group version as-is, without the ridiculous mana cost associated with it. Keeping 2 people buffed, per Enchanter, per raid, is not my idea of "enhanced desirability".
Would the DPS casters like this buff? Sure. But they can live without it. If you miss a "worn off" message, you're not deluged with /tells begging for it. Maybe it's just me, but for 875 mana...I expect more.
If you're completely satisfied with how this spell exists now, by all means, send them the feedback stating so. It's your right. To imply I need to "pull my head out" (of my ***, I take it) is neither a refutation of the points I presented, nor a valid statement in and of itself. Sticking your middle finger up and declaring, "Enchanters are the most powerful Class" without any sort of evidence regarding the matter is about as vapid a use of the keyboard as I can think of...excepting only those who complain about us having "weak nukes".
Edited, Jun 30th 2007 7:21pm by Vesanus
Uhh...no. I've been around since 1999, I've seen all the changes come and go. Once, we were the most powerful Class in the game, but that heyday has long since passed. Not that long ago, we were the most crippled Class in the game; but thankfully, SOE has seen fit to make strides towards giving us a reason to exist again.
There are those who claim Enchanters are the most worthless and obsolete of all the Classes as they now currently exist; there are those, like yourself, who still operate in the rosy afterglow of the PoP-era Enchanter heyday. The truth is somewhere in between.
I still hold that SOE needs to tweak this spell some more. Considering the latest nerf was applied because of the 0.1% of Wizards who "soloed" with a 'chanter-bot, I see no reason why Enchanters had to be punished as a whole. How would the Shaman Class react if their "Talisman of the Panther Rk. II" was suddenly changed from 1187 mana and a duration of 1 minute / unlimited procs to 2600+ mana for a duration of 1 minute or 30 procs, whichever came first?
Consider that this spell takes 875 mana for a single-target buff that fades in either 2 minutes or 30 procs and has a recast delay of 30 seconds, as opposed to the Shaman group Panther that takes 1187 mana and lasts 1 minute / unlimited procs and has a recast delay of 5.625 seconds?
I bring this disparity up not because I believe Enchanters should be able to solo red /cons easily (or even at all). I accept that the trade-off for having the buffs we do (which are supposed to make groups/raids as dependent on us, as we are on them) is the fact that we are almost entirely dependent on others for our own survival. I am simply saying that, for all of the weaknesses inherent in our Class, we need better buffs.
To put it simply: Am I "happy to have it"? Sure; it beats the hell outta nothing at all. But I'm pathetically grateful for anything that makes a group or raid tolerate the fact I'm gimping their DPS by filling that last slot. But I don't want to be tolerated...I want to be desired. I want raid groups to fight over who gets me, the way they do over Shaman. I'd like to be the prima donna; the diva; the belle of the ball. But I'll settle for being able to make a substantial contribution to a group or raid. As it stands right now, as a raiding Enchanter, my Haste is the only thing without which they refuse to live; even C7 can be done away with, if you're patient enough to take a few minutes' break in between boss mobs.
This is a nice buff, to be sure, especially when weighed against its predecessor (Mana Flare). And I recognize that so many Enchanters are afraid to say anything, for fear the few buffs we have remaining to us that are worth anything will also be lost. But as the "masters of the mind", and since Charm is forever lost to us as a primary Class-defining role, we NEED buffs that make us as necessary and as desired among spell-casters as Shaman are among melees.
Hell, even the spell-casters prefer a Shaman to an Enchanter...and it's not because we're all whiny 'tards who constantly complain about how crippled we are. (Just to head that off at the pass.) It's a well-known fact that the only people Enchanters complain to, are other Enchanters. Just ask SOE; if we complained to them half as much as we did to each other, we'd be better off than even the Necromancers are.
So, pardon me for believing that this spell can be, and in fact should be, so much more than it currently is. All I ask is they either remove the proc limitation, or give us a group version as-is, without the ridiculous mana cost associated with it. Keeping 2 people buffed, per Enchanter, per raid, is not my idea of "enhanced desirability".
Would the DPS casters like this buff? Sure. But they can live without it. If you miss a "worn off" message, you're not deluged with /tells begging for it. Maybe it's just me, but for 875 mana...I expect more.
If you're completely satisfied with how this spell exists now, by all means, send them the feedback stating so. It's your right. To imply I need to "pull my head out" (of my ***, I take it) is neither a refutation of the points I presented, nor a valid statement in and of itself. Sticking your middle finger up and declaring, "Enchanters are the most powerful Class" without any sort of evidence regarding the matter is about as vapid a use of the keyboard as I can think of...excepting only those who complain about us having "weak nukes".
Edited, Jun 30th 2007 7:21pm by Vesanus
My experience from having it cast on me repeatedly for a month:
Enchanter casts on damage caster, lasts for 3 minutes, during those three minutes....
Procs UP TO FOUR times per spell, for me 875 each proc, sometimes the procs crit as well.
It CAN proc the 875 on a low level spell, so if you are a damage caster in a raid, and lom, cast a low level nuke, and pray for procs - imagine it: 50 mana spent for 875-3500 damage. Not bad.
The procs are lower aggro than the direct nuke as well.
It also works on AE spells, and very well I might add. Rains are great, 3 waves of the chance for 4 procs each wave.
Enchanter casts on damage caster, lasts for 3 minutes, during those three minutes....
Procs UP TO FOUR times per spell, for me 875 each proc, sometimes the procs crit as well.
It CAN proc the 875 on a low level spell, so if you are a damage caster in a raid, and lom, cast a low level nuke, and pray for procs - imagine it: 50 mana spent for 875-3500 damage. Not bad.
The procs are lower aggro than the direct nuke as well.
It also works on AE spells, and very well I might add. Rains are great, 3 waves of the chance for 4 procs each wave.
From what I have read, and as far as I can understand of it (somewhat confusing still) this is what this spell does.
Initially it will do the same as the previous Mana Flare did, will add a "flare" following a direct damage spell either from a direct damage nuke, or from a proc resulting from BUFFS only (weapon procs do NOT have any affect on it). The addition on this version is that there is a chance for the flare to 'recure' after every previous flare. For example, you cast Polychromatic Assault on a mob while Mana Recursion is active on your buffs. Your nuke lands, your flare lands you have a small chance for that flare to land AGAIN and followed yet again by another chance to flare. So technically you could have this "flare" continue for eternity but I'm sure there is a cut off somewhere, probably 5 or 6. The chances of an additional flare obviously decrease significantly as they land.
Maybe I made it more confusing than before you started reading this... but I did my best =/
Initially it will do the same as the previous Mana Flare did, will add a "flare" following a direct damage spell either from a direct damage nuke, or from a proc resulting from BUFFS only (weapon procs do NOT have any affect on it). The addition on this version is that there is a chance for the flare to 'recure' after every previous flare. For example, you cast Polychromatic Assault on a mob while Mana Recursion is active on your buffs. Your nuke lands, your flare lands you have a small chance for that flare to land AGAIN and followed yet again by another chance to flare. So technically you could have this "flare" continue for eternity but I'm sure there is a cut off somewhere, probably 5 or 6. The chances of an additional flare obviously decrease significantly as they land.
Maybe I made it more confusing than before you started reading this... but I did my best =/
edit: "5: Limit: Spell(Mana Recursion Strike excluded)" let me to believe this did not proc off itself, but it can trigger multiple times... so yes, a huge upgrade to mana flare.
Edited, Apr 14th 2007 9:48pm by SirJesster
Edited, Apr 14th 2007 9:48pm by SirJesster
Scholar
22 posts
Where do we find these "new" spells that are listed on Alla's now? No one seems to be able to find out for chanter or any other class either. Help!!!
Jadess Dominnatrixx
Level 95 Beastlord
Crimson Tempest
Level 95 Beastlord
Crimson Tempest
1 post
It is bought with new TBS money,
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=66361
check that thread out for the vendor and the pricing, 200 dubs.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 5:44pm by Rhaddickiv
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=66361
check that thread out for the vendor and the pricing, 200 dubs.
Edited, Apr 18th 2007 5:44pm by Rhaddickiv
this spell and many others from the 12/05 update are not actually live yet, although a list of the new spells was sent to the live servers. check this thread out.
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Enchanters&message.id=8056&view=by_date_ascending&page=2
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Enchanters&message.id=8056&view=by_date_ascending&page=2
14 posts
I didn't see it on the Bixie, and Alla's doesn't seem to have anything listed. Is it a drop, or a quest? Does anyone know? Research only? Sold by someone else?
What's it do? Is it cast on the mobs or the players? I suppose, since I'm gaining information about the spell: How much does it cost?
Quote:
What's it do? Is it cast on the mobs or the players?
I believe this is an upgrade to the spell "Mana Flare." Mana Flare is a spell cast upon dealers of magical direct damage. It's a proc that gives an additional 700 points of damage, and it's cast on the players, not the mobs. This additional damage, by the way, is also subject to crits, just as the spell/effect is, allowing it to do much greater damage.
My question was, since Mana Flare deals an extra 700 points, how much more does this spell do?
Quote:
Mana Flare is a spell cast upon dealers of magical direct damage
As I see what you mean by this statement, it is not entirely accurate. I find this spell to be MUCH more useful when given to a ranger or ANY class that uses mana who also has a BUFF that gives them an offensive type proc. This spell does NOT work on classes who have no mana. A melee class such as a ranger will proc trice-fold the times that a "magical direct damage" class would cast a dd spell.
Quote:
As I see what you mean by this statement, it is not entirely accurate. I find this spell to be MUCH more useful when given to a ranger or ANY class that uses mana who also has a BUFF that gives them an offensive type proc. This spell does NOT work on classes who have no mana. A melee class such as a ranger will proc trice-fold the times that a "magical direct damage" class would cast a dd spell.
Possibly, but if this spell is anything at all like Mana Flare, it won't matter too much how frequently this particular class procs, as it is set for a limited number of procs. The duration is 1 minute (more w/buff extension focus), but it only procs for a limited number of times (5, I think). So, the spell will last for 1 minute or five procs, whichever comes first. So, if the Ranger procs more frequently with this, it won't matter. He's still only good for five procs before the spell wears off, and the Enchanter still has to wait 30 seconds to recover it. With this in mind, the best choice for the recipient of this spell is whoever crits the most often and has the most additional damage per crit. If your crits are maxed out, you yourself might be the best choice.
Although the prospect of casting this on a Ranger, so he can earn the mob's undivided attention has a certain appeal to it as well. Rangers tend to die quite often enough without my help, but it might be fun to hasten things along. <evil grin>
I wonder, too, what kind of resist check the proc actually has. Does it resist on MR, or does it resist on the same resist as the nuke/proc itself. Indeed, there are circumstances when the Enchanter may very well be the best choice. After all, we're the class with the best Chromatic nukes. If this spell uses the same resist check as the nuke, then we're the best choice for this spell in many circumstances.
The limited number of procs line that is indeed listed in the spell description Slots, is not actually effective. In fact, if it WERE effective then I would find this spell to be nearly useless, but as it stands PRESENTLY, it does not have a limit. There was a nerf to this type of spell though sometime in the past recently. It no longer works off of procs, of any type. You must cast a direct damage spell from your spell gems in order for it to effectively "flare". It will not even work off of dot spells that have an initial dd when the spell is first casted. Works purely on Direct Damage. I would take that nerf over them enforcing the proc limiter any day, week, or month =)
Does anyone know how much additional damage this spell does?
1: trigger on cast: mana recursion strike. look up mana recursion strike on alla's, since we're already here, and come up with the following! the three levels are for ranks 1, 2, and 3.
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 840
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 875
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 910
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 840
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 875
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 910
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
One more question, though. What does the "Chromatic (0) 0 Single[/]" mean?
[]1: trigger on cast: mana recursion strike. look up mana recursion strike on alla's, since we're already here, and come up with the following! the three levels are for ranks 1, 2, and 3.
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 840
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 875
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 910
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single[/]
Thank you so much.
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 840
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 875
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single
Mana Recursion Strike None 1: Decrease Hitpoints by 910
2: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/10/0)
Chromatic (0) 0 Single[/]
Thank you so much.
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