Venril Sathir
Raid Encounter
Uploaded July 24th, 2007
In the Tower of Frozen Shadow: Part of the fifth encounter within the Tower of Frozen Shadow anniversary raid (see this quest entry for raid information).
In Karnor's Castle:
The Main items in his loot table are the Leggings for the various Kunark Class specific armor, as well as a line of two handed blunt staves for casters.
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Background: Venril Sathir was the leader of the Iksar Empire who united the five tribes and brought them together to conquer most of the continent of Kunark.
Their rising power eventually attracted the attention of the Lords of the Ring of Scale (read: the Dragons of Veeshan's Peak). It was the mighty Trakanon who took it upon himself to wreak war upon the Iksar Empire, casting down this Necromancer leader.
Venril Sathir managed to cheat death somehow and now focuses on regaining the Iksar throne from his stronghold in Karnor's Castle.
Categories: EverQuest | Templatized
This page last modified 2023-11-04 14:21:08.
Level: 55
Expansion:
Expansion:
NPC Added: 0000-00-00 00:00:00
NPC Last Updated: 2021-01-01 11:03:13
NPC Last Updated: 2021-01-01 11:03:13
Known Loot:
Ancient Shissar Gauntlet
Blackened Iksar Bones
Blackjack
Blood Ember Greaves
Bolts of Tallon
Cobalt Greaves
Deepwater Greaves
Diamond Encrusted Staff
Donal's Leggings of Mourning
Dwarven Sap
Elder Spiritist's Greaves
Fine Steel Great Staff
Gnarled Staff
Jaundiced Bone Greaves
Leggings of Wrath
Lycanthropic Staff
Mrylokar's Greaves
Nightshade Scented Staff
Pulsing Green Stone, 1 - 2
Sapphire
Shissar Guardian Staff
Shissar Nullifier Staff
Singing Steel Greaves
Spell: Forlorn Deeds
Spell: Plainsight
Spell: Retribution of Al`Kabor
Tolan's Darkwood Greaves
Waters of Impenetrable Aura
Wild Lord's Trousers
Words of Virtue
Yaeth's Compendium Pg. 83
Ancient Shissar Gauntlet
Blackened Iksar Bones
Blackjack
Blood Ember Greaves
Bolts of Tallon
Cobalt Greaves
Deepwater Greaves
Diamond Encrusted Staff
Donal's Leggings of Mourning
Dwarven Sap
Elder Spiritist's Greaves
Fine Steel Great Staff
Gnarled Staff
Jaundiced Bone Greaves
Leggings of Wrath
Lycanthropic Staff
Mrylokar's Greaves
Nightshade Scented Staff
Pulsing Green Stone, 1 - 2
Sapphire
Shissar Guardian Staff
Shissar Nullifier Staff
Singing Steel Greaves
Spell: Forlorn Deeds
Spell: Plainsight
Spell: Retribution of Al`Kabor
Tolan's Darkwood Greaves
Waters of Impenetrable Aura
Wild Lord's Trousers
Words of Virtue
Yaeth's Compendium Pg. 83
Npc's get the best graphics and its not fair.. I think there should be some robes like that on the Sathir guy that are opened like that its much cooler and then you can see leggings why get leggings when you have a nasty robe covering them...
4 posts
Killed this guy for the second time 65 warrior 65 monk in like 30 secounds. !!!
11 posts
With no cleric or healer of any kind? No slower? No chanter for rune? And barely any dps? Sorry but I don't believe you..
Just because one person has a problem with a low 50's mob on their time toon don't mean another will .... AND - callin folks a liar just ain't kool
If the Warrior had really good MR (which I'm assuming he did) you wouldn't need a healer. Or rune. And what are you talking about? Time geared monk = DPS.
45 posts
So the LT is magic based as well (I'm assuming the stun/mez is because all stuns/mezzes are). Any clue what MR a lvl 70 would need to resist them both consistently? Thanks
13 posts
Killed this **** last night on Tarew Marr with 14 people.
65 BL tanked, 65 Cl main heals, 7 or so druids off healing, 1 wizard :) thats me, and rog/ranger/war dps mix.
Went down in a few mins, the hardest part was getting his hps to start falling. once he was past 80% he went down hard.
I nuked with rend / Ice comet / Dof with 100% resist.
In the end I got my gnarled staff and a Diamond Staff for being the only wizard in the raid.
Now on to BG and phinny :) woot
65 BL tanked, 65 Cl main heals, 7 or so druids off healing, 1 wizard :) thats me, and rog/ranger/war dps mix.
Went down in a few mins, the hardest part was getting his hps to start falling. once he was past 80% he went down hard.
I nuked with rend / Ice comet / Dof with 100% resist.
In the end I got my gnarled staff and a Diamond Staff for being the only wizard in the raid.
Now on to BG and phinny :) woot
#REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 06 2004 at 12:31 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) we raided this awhile ago for the rng epic.our raid had 20ppl.5clerics 3 monks 2 mages 3 wizzys 1 rng 1 pally 2 SKs and 3 chanters. the avg lvl was 40.he went down within a matter of mins.clerics healed and stunned,SKs and Pallys beat the **** outtta him and pallys stunned i just sicked pet nuked the **** outta him and cracked my *** off laughing because i was drunk
3 posts
We needed to do the ranger epic part, and VSR was up... one hour later when we actually go to attempt the turn in, VS is up, but the general consensus of the zone is that a group attempted the VSR version and wiped... leaving him up. Unfortunately, this was an invalid assumption. Upon pulling VS, we soon found out he was NOT the VSR version. Not to be bested, after a failure we returned. I dusted off an old bard for the fight.
Here was the line-up:
52 enchanter
65 ranger (tank, 444 MR with song)
62 bard (naked, playing AE MR)
59 shadow knight
56 cleric
58 cleric
58 ranger (died in the first minute of the fight)
58 rogue
Average level: 58.625
The strategy was as follows: We knew we couldn't take him down without stopping his lifetap, since we had too little DPS. He procced very often, and didn't stay below 95% for long, only dropped as low as 85 when the ranger used weaponshield.
The bard was twisting elemental chorus (110 MR with Selo's Drum of the March), Wind of Marr, Nillipus' March of the Wee (small rune), and Warsong of Zek. The enchanter would be constantly casting Rune V on the ranger.
This plan didn't pan out completely, as when we were intending to clear the room, VS decided to come with a Knight of Sathir, his pet, and a skeletal protector. The other ranger, shadow knight, and rogue attempted to clear the junk and keep it off the clerics while they casted completes on the ranger.
Things weren't looking too hot, as the 58 ranger died, and no one was hasted (not expecting to fight VS right away). At some point in time, everyone had agro from the trash, but VS stayed on the ranger tank. During this chaotic time, our strategy wasn't enacted. At the point when the trash was slain, VS was still at 100%.
Now we began with the original plan, the enchanter casted rune whenever it dropped, a few of the melees were hasted. Once full concentration was put on VS, he began to lose health.... very slowly.
The ranger reported a 50% full lifetap resist, 45% partial (average 300, max 600), and several were sucked up by the runes. He only got off two full 1500 point lifetaps.
This ended up a very long fight, with the last 5 percentiles of health shouted out over the Ventrilo channel. The enchanter actually ran out of dots mid-battle, and had to retrieve some from one of the clerics. Dropped Cobalt Greaves, Blackened Iksar Bones, and the wizard epic piece, which was snatched up by our cleric's alt.
There is still some confusion on why the real VS was up while only an hour before VSR was up. At any rate, I'm unsure of the spawns and whatnot, but I'm sure someone has already explained this previosly in the posts.
Dynariel - 58 cleric
Elenari - 52 enchanter
Rodcet Nife
Edited, Thu Aug 19 01:26:45 2004
Here was the line-up:
52 enchanter
65 ranger (tank, 444 MR with song)
62 bard (naked, playing AE MR)
59 shadow knight
56 cleric
58 cleric
58 ranger (died in the first minute of the fight)
58 rogue
Average level: 58.625
The strategy was as follows: We knew we couldn't take him down without stopping his lifetap, since we had too little DPS. He procced very often, and didn't stay below 95% for long, only dropped as low as 85 when the ranger used weaponshield.
The bard was twisting elemental chorus (110 MR with Selo's Drum of the March), Wind of Marr, Nillipus' March of the Wee (small rune), and Warsong of Zek. The enchanter would be constantly casting Rune V on the ranger.
This plan didn't pan out completely, as when we were intending to clear the room, VS decided to come with a Knight of Sathir, his pet, and a skeletal protector. The other ranger, shadow knight, and rogue attempted to clear the junk and keep it off the clerics while they casted completes on the ranger.
Things weren't looking too hot, as the 58 ranger died, and no one was hasted (not expecting to fight VS right away). At some point in time, everyone had agro from the trash, but VS stayed on the ranger tank. During this chaotic time, our strategy wasn't enacted. At the point when the trash was slain, VS was still at 100%.
Now we began with the original plan, the enchanter casted rune whenever it dropped, a few of the melees were hasted. Once full concentration was put on VS, he began to lose health.... very slowly.
The ranger reported a 50% full lifetap resist, 45% partial (average 300, max 600), and several were sucked up by the runes. He only got off two full 1500 point lifetaps.
This ended up a very long fight, with the last 5 percentiles of health shouted out over the Ventrilo channel. The enchanter actually ran out of dots mid-battle, and had to retrieve some from one of the clerics. Dropped Cobalt Greaves, Blackened Iksar Bones, and the wizard epic piece, which was snatched up by our cleric's alt.
There is still some confusion on why the real VS was up while only an hour before VSR was up. At any rate, I'm unsure of the spawns and whatnot, but I'm sure someone has already explained this previosly in the posts.
Dynariel - 58 cleric
Elenari - 52 enchanter
Rodcet Nife
Edited, Thu Aug 19 01:26:45 2004
7 posts
Lifetaps cannot rejuvenate his HP if you have a rune up, rune absorbs the dmg so Venril Sathir wont get any of his HP back =P
Not quite accurate, but close enough. Unlike players, mobs can only proc when they have a successful melee attack (that does damage). Thus if his melee attacks can't chew through the rune, he'll never be able to proc at all.
6 posts
Duoed him with 65 monk and 65 Cleric - VERY easy fight.
49 posts
after looking at your magelo profile (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=725521) cough .....bullsh*&...cough
I killed a mob named Korucust's Courier in Chardok and received Korucust's note to venril which I assume is venril sathir - if anyone knows anything about this please post it thanks
11 posts
Our guild, Shahrazad, took VS down on Bertox on June 27, 04. Here is a nice guide written up by the leaders.
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=14993&ForumID=68166&TabID=126378&TopicID=544224
Hope this helps!
Ellysienne
Edited, Tue Jun 29 22:44:03 2004
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=14993&ForumID=68166&TabID=126378&TopicID=544224
Hope this helps!
Ellysienne
Edited, Tue Jun 29 22:44:03 2004
16 posts
Thank you, it is a well written guide and its bound to work!
I am needing to get to VSR for my epic, ranger, and on Solusek Ro it seems like no one ever kills him. If you are a high lvl and are on Sol Ro, please for old times sake, reveng or whatever, come on by KC and wipe this guy out so some lowbies can kill his remains all over again. It would really reduce the headache to not have to kill him as a ranger. If I had a whole bunch of lvl 65 budies would be no prob, but sadly dont have that. Can probably kill the reamians with a well balanced group of mid 50's, which I can muster, so remember if ya get bored with the same old grind come and kill VS, thanks.
Scholar
20 posts
<<< If I had a whole bunch of lvl 65 budies would be no prob, but sadly dont have that. >>>
It seems to me that many people who ding 51 think, Hey, I am high enough level to do my epic. If you have a 65+ alt, yes, 51 is high enough to do your epic because you have a bunch of 65's in your friends list. If this is your first 50+ character I HIGHLY recommend you level to a USEFUL 65+, get in groups w/ people your level, make some uber friends, then get it done in a weekend instead of wasting everyone's time wiping on a mob that could be duo'd.
It seems to me that many people who ding 51 think, Hey, I am high enough level to do my epic. If you have a 65+ alt, yes, 51 is high enough to do your epic because you have a bunch of 65's in your friends list. If this is your first 50+ character I HIGHLY recommend you level to a USEFUL 65+, get in groups w/ people your level, make some uber friends, then get it done in a weekend instead of wasting everyone's time wiping on a mob that could be duo'd.
Don't know how heavily camped he is, but I'd like to try to solo him with a 65 necro, 66 aa, non-elemental geared. Hrm. "How hard can he be?" :) Child of Bert has 4k hp and could handle the damage you guys are talking about easily (max of under 400?). Does he summon, that's my big question !
It's the dmg output he puts thats tuff to control, it's his regen/constant LT'ing. I'm doubting you could drop his HPs, as he has a massive regen w/ his life-tapping. You don't have the DPS to drop. Warrior, Bard and Cleric combo couldn't even take him. Warrior has over 10k HPs and Bard is ele flagged, so they knew what they were doing, but he LT'ed the tank too much. As for the druid/monk combo -- might be true, monks have great DPS + druid DS will help.
when every one says 24 hours do you mean in real life or in game time?
36 posts
I was told 24hrs real time for him. I have yet to hear someone refer to time in game time, but I could just be a rare person where real time is all that effects my char.
The VSR version only life tapped 4 or 5 times and it was a long fight, duo'd by a druid and monk, both 65. As far as I can tell, VS only spawns after both version of VSR are defeated. He dies, then 24 hours give or take a little later VSR spawns. After that spawn dies, yup, 24 hours later, there he is. VSR is REALLY easy compared to VS who is somewhat difficult because of the proc. I did resist the lifetap partially (it landed for 500) but I can't recall what my MR was. I believe 220 or so.
Edited, Thu May 27 04:47:02 2004
Edited, Thu May 27 04:47:02 2004
#REDACTED,
Posted: May 22 2004 at 3:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's only -200 resist!! He IS soloable! First Phinny now this guy. I will be able to solo avenge the 4 epic wizards soon enough! :p
11 posts
13 posts
I have played this game for a while now, I have done some fun stuff and seen some cool things, I have been a mamber of this site and think I (might) have a single post to my credit. I am no EQ hardcore but I know what's usually going down, how to get there, and can generally be a help in a bad (and even unfamiliar) situation...
Having played a Bard, a Shadowknight, a Beastlord, and Now a Cleric, I have an account laden with 45-50ish characters all over SoE's server creations last night I was duo-ing with my chick in KC just grinding out a bit of aaxp and hoping fer a nice drop or two (55 Cleric being my current 'main'), we picked up a Cool SK guy who was doing a good job at laying down some damage (Pallys are Great tanks and all but you can't tell me they = good SK damage) and things were going pretty well. Enter: a 'group' of a 58 Druid, a 51 Druid, and a 47 Wizard..
saying they needed to get VS to spawn for thier epic pieces, something about a turn-in, I do not know (never having played either of the classes) they asked if we'd help ..sure! No problems (we're pwning the castle here, 55 Cleric, Paladin with 12 aa's each and some decent gear) with a damage dealing secondary SK tank and a bit of simple cleric cc (root/blind) ..anyway ..after a TEN minute discussion over Where VS is located in the castle, and asking me (the cleric) what they were supposed to do, I was feeling a bit ...wary, but in good faith decided to help them out, they said they JUST had to do a turn in to some mob in the room with the 'hands'. anyway ..turn in: complete ..okay, we're on our way out right? ..hang on a second, there's something I wanna check.. says the Ranking Druid ..okies let's go check it out then...VS is standing before me ..indifferent as a spider in the newby area of qeynos... a white (or black, right?) /con.. (enter knees qaking) ..Rdy? comes the call as VS agro's the Druid...34m ... CHeal to MT inc (he's at 70% inna matter of a minute - what could happen here? I think to myself..as reality hits... it's Venril Sathir and we are all alone in his sanctum and someone agro'd him to us on purpose) just as the reality was solidifying itself in my head ..his life suddenly spiked ,one druid down ...getting lom but keeping tanks alive ..Inc Complete heal on MT ...MT around 55% everything proceeding acceptibly still) (no slows on VS at this point) ..VS's life spikes again ...MT down as CH lands ..quick wipe from there..long story short: Epics are COOL and helping with them is Fun and people will generally Help you guys if you need it but DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT ever put anyone in this situation ..luckily the SK could summon us and I bound right outside for Quickie rezzes Beforehand (I didn't Know we were gonna go try to rag-tag VS)
Having played a Bard, a Shadowknight, a Beastlord, and Now a Cleric, I have an account laden with 45-50ish characters all over SoE's server creations last night I was duo-ing with my chick in KC just grinding out a bit of aaxp and hoping fer a nice drop or two (55 Cleric being my current 'main'), we picked up a Cool SK guy who was doing a good job at laying down some damage (Pallys are Great tanks and all but you can't tell me they = good SK damage) and things were going pretty well. Enter: a 'group' of a 58 Druid, a 51 Druid, and a 47 Wizard..
saying they needed to get VS to spawn for thier epic pieces, something about a turn-in, I do not know (never having played either of the classes) they asked if we'd help ..sure! No problems (we're pwning the castle here, 55 Cleric, Paladin with 12 aa's each and some decent gear) with a damage dealing secondary SK tank and a bit of simple cleric cc (root/blind) ..anyway ..after a TEN minute discussion over Where VS is located in the castle, and asking me (the cleric) what they were supposed to do, I was feeling a bit ...wary, but in good faith decided to help them out, they said they JUST had to do a turn in to some mob in the room with the 'hands'. anyway ..turn in: complete ..okay, we're on our way out right? ..hang on a second, there's something I wanna check.. says the Ranking Druid ..okies let's go check it out then...VS is standing before me ..indifferent as a spider in the newby area of qeynos... a white (or black, right?) /con.. (enter knees qaking) ..Rdy? comes the call as VS agro's the Druid...34m ... CHeal to MT inc (he's at 70% inna matter of a minute - what could happen here? I think to myself..as reality hits... it's Venril Sathir and we are all alone in his sanctum and someone agro'd him to us on purpose) just as the reality was solidifying itself in my head ..his life suddenly spiked ,one druid down ...getting lom but keeping tanks alive ..Inc Complete heal on MT ...MT around 55% everything proceeding acceptibly still) (no slows on VS at this point) ..VS's life spikes again ...MT down as CH lands ..quick wipe from there..long story short: Epics are COOL and helping with them is Fun and people will generally Help you guys if you need it but DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT ever put anyone in this situation ..luckily the SK could summon us and I bound right outside for Quickie rezzes Beforehand (I didn't Know we were gonna go try to rag-tag VS)
Excuse me? Solo on him is easy for a high AA necro. Use Wake The Dead pet, regular 65 Child of Bert pet, lifeburn (unresistable by anything except a DA mob like Praetor Myral in GE) heal pet, and if pet dies, just bring in the one you had suspended before you engaged.
If you need to, keep some poor NPC victim rooted and snared nearby and lifetap it, and if you have pet affinity, cast grp heal and further heal pet in this manner. If you are lucky enough to have a wep with Time Lapse on it you can actually melee him at the end.
Killed regularly in this fashion by me and other necros!!
If you need to, keep some poor NPC victim rooted and snared nearby and lifetap it, and if you have pet affinity, cast grp heal and further heal pet in this manner. If you are lucky enough to have a wep with Time Lapse on it you can actually melee him at the end.
Killed regularly in this fashion by me and other necros!!
9 posts
Quote:
Pallys are Great tanks and all but you can't tell me they = good SK damage
considering a paladin is the only class i have heard of soloing VS.. i'd disagree :)
============================
Guzzle
65 Paladin
Maelin Starpyre
[link=www.assentguild.com]<Assent>[/link]
EQ - assent - Videos vol 1,2,&3
Killed him last night on veeshan server. with 62 war (me) tanking, 65 druid, 59 cleric, 61 bst, 65 cleric, 61 monk, 56 druid, 49 bard, and 51 war. was overkill! My health never went below 70%. no deaths he droped 2 druid epic pieces so I ran my druid over there and got it for him too. 9 chars - 0 deaths = Cake
he easy,when i was lvl 45 was grouped in karnors and a friend of the cleric i was grouped with(65 ranger) wanted us to help him with epic piece,we did it with 65 ranger,45 paladin,46 cleric,and a 44 ranger,ranger was tankin,he tanked and cleric only had to do like 2 Chs
Scholar
16 posts
Done with:
63 druid
65 mage
57 druid
50 pally
52 druid
62 ranger
63 pally
61 shammie
61 monkie
65 monkie
65 chanter
65 wizard
65 druid
We attempted before the pally and 65 monk showed up with the ranger tanking and failed. Once pally arrived, we managed to kill him. Pally went down towards the end though...
Pretty good drops for a 55 mob.
*edit* forgot to mention, Shammie couldn't slow him, all shammie managed to do was Malo. But it's not his melee dmg that hurts, it's his stupid 1500hp proc that goes off way too often. If there's a dex debuff in the game (necro? Cripple? use it :)
Edited, Thu May 13 12:28:01 2004
63 druid
65 mage
57 druid
50 pally
52 druid
62 ranger
63 pally
61 shammie
61 monkie
65 monkie
65 chanter
65 wizard
65 druid
We attempted before the pally and 65 monk showed up with the ranger tanking and failed. Once pally arrived, we managed to kill him. Pally went down towards the end though...
Pretty good drops for a 55 mob.
*edit* forgot to mention, Shammie couldn't slow him, all shammie managed to do was Malo. But it's not his melee dmg that hurts, it's his stupid 1500hp proc that goes off way too often. If there's a dex debuff in the game (necro? Cripple? use it :)
Edited, Thu May 13 12:28:01 2004
Here's a nifty combo for doing him quickly
4 x Wizards
1 x Cleric
1 x Shadowknight
Shadowknight lifetaps whilst tanking, Cleric healing.
4 Wizards nuke a little, then all manaburn, there is a dead VS.
4 x Wizards
1 x Cleric
1 x Shadowknight
Shadowknight lifetaps whilst tanking, Cleric healing.
4 Wizards nuke a little, then all manaburn, there is a dead VS.
14 posts
too bad only 1 wiz can manaburn per min, and damage cap is 9740ish
Here's a better group: One (1) Time geared wizard.
Two SoS and one Manaburn and he's toast.
Two SoS and one Manaburn and he's toast.
But people aiming for VS for things lke epic bits and loot, aren't exactly likely to be in Time gear!
38 posts
<deleted>
I wish they would go back through and delete the old Iksar Monk Epic links. *^$# Key no longer Drops.
Edited, Tue Mar 30 03:22:20 2004
I wish they would go back through and delete the old Iksar Monk Epic links. *^$# Key no longer Drops.
Edited, Tue Mar 30 03:22:20 2004
30 posts
We took him down last Sunday on Lanys with 15 people and a average level of 59. I believe we had a 65 Chanter, Druid and Necro and 2 mid 50's clerics.
My 57 Warrior was chosen MT over a 61 pally for this battle. All buffed up i had 6374hp 1287ac.
I pulled him 1/3 of the way into the preparation room and stood and waited to engage melee, as soon as melee started i spun around to the back of him turning his back for my eager companions.
He doesnt hit too hard, the biggest he got me for was 306 i believe. He does heal himself quite effiently so make sure you have enuf dps to take him down.
Pretty easy battle and a pretty happy ranja afterwards.(Not too mention the Cobalt Greaves that i scored) hehe =)
Dumathoin Bonesplitter
58 Barbarian Warrior
Lanys
My 57 Warrior was chosen MT over a 61 pally for this battle. All buffed up i had 6374hp 1287ac.
I pulled him 1/3 of the way into the preparation room and stood and waited to engage melee, as soon as melee started i spun around to the back of him turning his back for my eager companions.
He doesnt hit too hard, the biggest he got me for was 306 i believe. He does heal himself quite effiently so make sure you have enuf dps to take him down.
Pretty easy battle and a pretty happy ranja afterwards.(Not too mention the Cobalt Greaves that i scored) hehe =)
Dumathoin Bonesplitter
58 Barbarian Warrior
Lanys
5 posts
Dropped him with 2ranger <95aa's each> 1 warrior, 8khp and two clerics, fight lasted around 15secondes
5 posts
Dropped him with 2ranger <95aa's each> 1 warrior, 8khp and two clerics, fight lastes around 15secondes
Killed him tonight on Stromm. Had 17 people one of whom was a chanter. Chanter runed the MT when he could and the rest just destroyed him. Dropped Ancient Shissar Gauntlets, Gnarled Staff (happy me), Donals Legs, and Blackened Iksar Bones (went to a happy iksar shaman that I found with /who). Took about 20 min to clear and kill and disperse loot.
Btw-17 was WAY overkill, a good group of 60+ would own him these days.
Edited, Wed Mar 10 07:21:38 2004
Btw-17 was WAY overkill, a good group of 60+ would own him these days.
Edited, Wed Mar 10 07:21:38 2004
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