Item GlossaryEverQuest icon

Elder Wolf Hide  
 

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM
Slot: SHOULDERS
AC: 10
STR: +4 WIS: +4 INT: +4 HP: +30
WT: 5.0 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)
Item Lore:This makes a nice cloak
Item Type:Armor
Stackable:No
Merchant Value:8 pp 0 gp 0 sp 0 cp
Tribute:1120
Lucy Entry By:Kerasota
Item Updated By:Kilzadi
Source:Live
IC Last Updated:2020-02-24 12:52:59
Page Updated:Thu Oct 9th, 2008
Shadows of Luclin Item


Average Price: 2,000pp Pricing Data...
Rarity: Common
Level to Attain: 35

[Drops | Comments ]

Drops: This item is found on creatures.

Hollowshade Moor


Zone(s) Found In:
Dropped by Ghowlik
Screenshot

Uploaded September 1st, 2018 by Drewinette
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Soloing
# Jan 04 2004 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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194 posts
All these strategies for soloing him are clever, but waaaay too complicated. This is all you have to do:

1) Invis/camo.
2) Go in cave.
3) Target Ghowlik or his PH (sonic wolf packleader).
4) Run outside of the cave and stand high on the wall off to the right of the cave entrance.
5) Cast any offensive spell on him.
6) Walk away from the wall back out into the open. Just stand there for 5 seconds or so. Ghowlik will come running at you all by himself, with no adds of any kind, and you can easily pull him to an area with no wanderers.

I see all the posts saying how this strat doesn't work anymore... but it does. I killed him 5 times today this way, in addition to maybe 5-6 PHs. Even did it with defenders up, and didn't aggro them. Got two of these items and three jawbones, as well as a bunch of the useless 6/24 sonic wolf teeth or whatnot off the PHs. This is a surprisingly nice item for such an easy camp... I guess it just reflects the relatively low quality of droppable non-high-uber shoulder items out there. Tattered Mantle is still one of the best items in this slot for a large price range... how many other Kunark items can you say that about?

Edited, Sun Jan 4 23:49:25 2004
RE: Soloing
# Jun 05 2004 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I tried this method also. I got no adds for the placeholder and one add for Ghowlik, but after zoning out and back, he sat outside the cave and I was able to pull him without adds after waiting a bit. To clarify, after targeting him while inside the cave, you want to pull from above the cave entrance and to the north, just inside casting range.

Fair warning on Ghowlik's level for low 30s solo casters: He has high resists, so you almost need to wait til he is light blue to have an easier time with him. I landed maybe 1 in 10 spells as a 32 Shaman.

Also noted: if you kill the placeholder and the owlbears take over the cave before Ghowlik spawns, just wait until the sonic wolves retake the cave and Ghowlik will be there.

Edited, Sat Jun 5 11:04:27 2004
RE: Soloing
# Feb 05 2004 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
204 posts
LOL, I thought this was a joke, but its true! Only thing to do now is go buy some more invis. potions from Gunthak :-)
RE: Soloing
# Jan 24 2004 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
4 posts
You're right Docalla - did it exactly as you said and no adds, no problems. Well, one problem really - what to do while waiting for the next spawn.....
karana
# Sep 27 2002 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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59 posts
This got harder to solo since the last patch, Sept 20ish 2002, Seems to get an add everytime now.
RE: karana
# Oct 12 2002 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
48 posts
It's clearly different then what it used to be a year ago. I was off EQ for a year, and have been in the cave lately with my 45 Ranger to replace her Tattered Mantle.

I used to be able to sit INSIDE the cave and just med up and kill Ghowlik and the packleader after the roamer passed by, and never got any adds.

Now the Sonic Wolf just above to the left side will add sometimes during the fight. Not only that but timing the roamer is quite difficult or maybe it's just that I have rarely the time to kill 2 wolves before the roamer comes back.

Either the way, its still very simple.

I sit on a big rock outside, there is rarely a wolf that aggro me otherwise i can Hide as well. I buff up go invis enter tha cave and kill the ph/Ghowlik. If i couldnt invis myself before the roamer is back,
I run and train the Sonic Wolves to the mushroom forest zone.

I have just found a way tosave on zoning time and game memory.. ias soon as you enter the rocky cave before the zone, turn left and sit right by the big rock and camp RIGHT AWAY. You will see the Sonic Wolf train pass by and run stupidly to the mushroom forest zone (whatever the name is..).

HGowever after just about 30 sec they will spawn right on you.

My first tries I was sitting by the NPC there and they would hit me just before I camped out which was soooo annyoing.
That's why you should sit right by the biug rock and you will be able to log out just a few secs before the mobs spawn on you..

That way no slow zoning and trashing of memory.. when I came from Shadowhaven the Hollowshade was sluggish as hell.. thats why its better to camp out than to zone.

Good luck.

PS: also to avoid aggro from Sonic Wolf on left side when you stand behind the PH, stand slightly right side of the PH and back up against the wall and the big rock, youwont aggro the Sonic Wolf on the right, then the one on the left does not add (at least it didn't two consecutive time I tried that)


Edited, Sat Oct 12 16:23:56 2002
____________________________
Lillyann Foxglove, Defender of the Vale !
RUN DOWN
# Oct 12 2002 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
48 posts
Okies, after my 3rd consecutive 'good' kill in there I think I can confirm the following

- being a 45 Ranger, i DO get aggro from the Roamer (Sonci Wolves are stupid)
- Camouflage / Invis and go in
- Stand back against the wall behind PH/Ghowlik and stikc beside thr big rock to your right, right there in the corner.
- Now wait the roamer to pass by,
- Start the fight
- Snare/Root if you can
- If sanre/root failed do NOT move.. wait.. SIT and your wolf will come back
- Once it died quickly Camo before the roamer is back

I can also confirm this :

- if you stick back against the wall in the corner with the big stone, and the roamer arrives during the fight, the Sonic Woldf onb the ledge does not add !

Have fun
____________________________
Lillyann Foxglove, Defender of the Vale !
Spawns
# Jul 21 2002 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
How does the spawn switch from the grimlings back to what it should be, its the grimlings now and I dunno how to switch it back... any info would help
____________________________
Yizzy Darkcaster - 70th Archanist - Druzzil Ro
RE: Spawns
# Sep 27 2002 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*
104 posts
The spawns are not triggered friend. The creatures actually go on raiding parties as part of the zone wide quest needed by the Vah Shir, so when one side defeats the other, their troops begin spawning there.

When one side owns all three base camps then a leader is supposed to spawn in the Vah Shir outpost and drive off the defenders. If this leader is killed or left long enough to despawn the whole zone resets. unfortunately this part of the quest is still bugged and often one side will own all bases and the Master creature will not spawn.

Many times I have had to ask a GM to re-populate the zone when this gets stuck. They seem to have no problems doing so as they know that the bugs haven't been ironed out yet as well.

As for getting your choice to respawn in the caves, wait till you see a pack of wolves make an return assault on the cave and assist them in the fight. If they win, then you will have your spawn back the way you want it.

I hope this helps.
6-24 growlik
# Jun 26 2002 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts
Ok all the wolves have the zone now..and I killed growlik 2 tims tonight.... he dropped this 2 times I looted one on main and looted other to an alt camped near here...

Heres what I did..Im a 39 ranger and I cammoed and go in and stand behind the named one.... wait for patrol/wandering wolf to pass by..and attack from behind...if ya snare or tangle weeds him and he doesnt run..the only aggro youll get it the wnadering wolf..then all heck will break out..hehe.. I killed him..looted re-cammoed and got out all with about 1/2 life left...piece o cake...and if all goes wrong..run for GF zone and shout train all the way..lol..thanks
hmmm
# Jun 16 2002 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
ok, me and a few low 30's friends went to the cave...we tried to kill the guards at the entrance first...got ourselves killed...then we decided that it wuld be better if we just went ahead and tried from the top of the hill, worked like a charm, and got this cloak on the first kill. must say that works much better than trying to hide inside the cave. the guards outside didn't see me, and when i went into the cave i targeted him, and went above. He came out with a few of his friends, and we killed em all
#ETKILLER, Posted: May 14 2002 at 4:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) WHATS THE UPDATE IT ALL LOOKS THE SAME AS BEFORE.OR DID IT NOT SAY COMMON?
EASIEST PULL
# May 13 2002 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
1) invis

2) run inside and target Ghowlik

3) run outside on TOP of the cave and cast some offensive spell.

He will hit you a few times and you won't see him for about 3-4 swings at you, but suddenly he will be right on hilltop with you and it's ON!
____________________________
Shred The Soulless
58 Revanant of Paineel
Druzzil Ro
RE: EASIEST PULL
# May 29 2002 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
34 posts
I tried this method and I like the result. One quick note, however. Do not attempt this method of pulling while the war is going on at wolf caves, this will result in aggroing the defenders. With 3 defenders, 2 guardians, the named mob, plus wandering adds someone soloing will get eaten and the defenders will continually summon you back to cave if you attempt to run. The result is a quick death. Not sure why exactly they will agro and not others, could be they are higher level, in which case, this wouldn't apply to higher level characters.... ok this method no longer works, instead of pulling ghowlik out you just see " you cannot see your target " like you should see, easiest way now is use invis and back right into corner of boulder to the left of ghowlik, wait for the walker to clear the rock and pull, then invis after fight.

Ninaelyan Shadowsmith
Level 54th Shadow Knight
The Nameless Server

Edited, Sat Mar 15 09:44:08 2003
RE: EASIEST PULL
# May 29 2002 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
*
126 posts
Just tried that with the PH, didn't work...yeah, he was hitting me, and I killed him easy enough, but he wasn't out, and when he died, he was nowhere to be found...I just cleared cave constantly til he popped....5 Ghowliks later, and 2 wars, no drop...but I will get it, I will!!! Muhahahaha...hehe =)
Item Lore
# Apr 18 2002 at 3:45 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
29 posts
I was messing around with my Star of Eyes the other day and cast Identify on the Elder Wolf Hide since it was Lore. The Item Lore read:

This makes a nice cloak.

However, this is a shoulder slot item, not a back slot item like most cloaks. Anyone know of a quest this might be for to turn it into a cloak?

Jo'Brill of the Nexus
52nd HalfElven Pathfinder of Tunare
Master Fletcher of the 192nd Arrow
<Tempered Spirits>
Morell-Thule Server
i make 1k a night of this
# Apr 03 2002 at 1:08 PM Rating: Default
20 posts
I have used the advice found here on how to pull and what i do is farm this for a few hours a night and always make 500-1200pp a night.I usually get one in about every 6-7 kills and run to the bazaar and its aqlways sold within 20min and i go back just 2 zones over and get another.lol .I LOVE THIS GAME! Also just to let ya know if ya want to kill the grimling chieftan without getting hit walk all the way up the mountain right behind him and nuke away .He doesnt even move.Drops staff of living sand .This zone is a goldmine.Just run from Chief to Ghowlik to Gorehorn and stay bust getting sellable products.And does anyone know where Scarflank is?
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# May 13 2002 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
The only time I've seen Scarflank spawn is when the wolves have control over the islands and he will be siting in the exact same spot as the grimling chief is when grimlings are in control.
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# May 02 2002 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
I found Scarflank under water between the two Grimling camps at the south end of the zone. He was immune to snare/root, and was a little tough for me (51 druid) to solo. He wouldnt leave the water, so I would run in nuke/DoT, melee a little then run out heal/med, rinse repeat. Only droped a hide.
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# Apr 03 2002 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
20 posts
Btw, I just read some people are getting 2 or 3 k for this?!! I cant believe it.I sell mine for no more than 700pp but i dont want to undercut myself.Am i selling to low?I always get 2 a night after about 10-15 kills.It really drops more than u think well on my sever it does(Sullon Zek).If i were to sell it at 2k like you guys were saying and i were to stay up all night i could really rake it in.Well ive been doin this for about 4 night so far and ive made well over 5k and some nice extras ill never use.And if it matters the war seems to have started for the first time on our server but it hasent messed anything up so far.I'm stayin here forever to farm and twink my alt so ill keep u all posted if any changes on the drop rate occur.Oh and 1 reason its so easy to get over and over is I swear im the only 1 in the whole zone all night on my server.Very few people ever come in.MAn i love my server and this game hehehehhehehehehehehehehehe
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# May 14 2002 at 12:56 AM Rating: Default
I sell these hides ALL THE TIME on The Tribunal server for NEVER any less then 2500pp, when I see others selling them I try and buy them for 1kpp and turn it around for a 1500pp profit, I usually sell them for 3kpp
____________________________
Malkinere Soulrender (AKA Docta Catch Snatcha)
70 Dread Lord
Member of The Greedy Bandits
The Tribunal Server
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# Apr 09 2002 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
LOL just curious are you a Druid? I camped for one last night got it in about 15 min for my cleric, but Im not gonna hog the camp for more. Theres other people that want one for whatever reason and shouldnt have to pay for an item they can get with a little work. True the zone was desolate but a few came in now and again and asked if ghowlik was camped. Im not gonna tell em yes and Im staying here forever even though I already have all that I can use =)
____________________________
Damelon Evilsbane
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# Apr 10 2002 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
20 posts
No im an enchanter and there isnt anyone who comes in here on Sullon and asks or trys to get it so why shouldnt i stay here.I have raised my prices to 1k and its paying off well for my alt.And i can for sure say it drops every 2-3 hrs so you got the there at a good time.Ive had Ghowlik not drop it after 10 or more kills then drop off 2 in a row so its hard to say but its a nice drop that sells fast and Im never leavin.If you dont like it and your on Sullon feel free to try and remove me :)
RE: i make 1k a night of this
# Sep 28 2002 at 12:50 AM Rating: Decent
*
123 posts
Easy to do on SZ, but on sane servers the grimlings are always in control, since smiths are farming acrylia off them. Plus it's not worth as much, because it's droppable. Tradeable gear on sane servers is worth more, because you can always sell it. It gets looted on nut servers though.
Get it now.
# Mar 21 2002 at 12:44 AM Rating: Default
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82 posts
I highly recommend camping or buying this hide ASAP while the Moore is back to normal. It won't be long before VI get the war working again and when they do its going to be either twice as hard or twice as expensive to buy.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
# Mar 28 2002 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
I went in today with my 41 Rogue. I did a sneak/hide to the back. Layed out a BS and backed against the wall. I just a kept on a poking till he got ready to die and started to wander off. So I evaded, and waited till he came back. Then I turned on autoattack, hit him once, he turned around, then I got with a BS for a finishing blow. Very simple, very painless. I was only down one bubbles of health.
Pulling Ghowlik
# Mar 20 2002 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
This is how I pulled Ghowlik... Me and a friend went over to camp him, my wife and I buffed my friend up heavy with hp and regen buffs. then he ran in the cave with camo on... he blasted ghowlik and ran like hell out of the cave while I assisted him and rooted ghowlik then dotted...one blast later.....DEAD! My friend was the decoy for all the others as he just ran to the zone line screaming train! LOL

My wife (51 cleric) was along for the excitement and the loot! lol


54 druid and 40 shaman

Edited, Wed Mar 20 10:08:43 2002
RE: Pulling Ghowlik
# Apr 24 2002 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Holy cow. I was a 40 war at the time I went after Ghowlik, and my wife was with me, a 39 druid. We just killed the whole cave and then Ghowlik. And no, neither of us are twinked for our level. Just took em all down one mob at a time and didn't have to risk anyone else's hides to do it.
RE: Pulling Ghowlik
# Mar 27 2002 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
17 posts
My sister aand I have killed him 3 times she a 42 ranger and I a 40 cleric. Just kill the ones in the front till you can pull him out.
RE: Pulling Ghowlik
# Apr 09 2002 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
If you have a druid or ranger friend youre set you dont even have to pull him. Camo, run into the back where he pops, sit on the ledge against the wall, kill the ledge pop, the wanderer when he comes, then Ghowlik or pack leader. None of the ones we ran by could see invis and as long as you keep em rooted or snared in the back there you wont get any adds. Easy heh
____________________________
Damelon Evilsbane
Tracksort Distance
# Mar 19 2002 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
301 posts
I always looked to see if he was up omw to ten mount to get acrylia for arrows and stuff fopr tailor wife
if he was up and no chars around (see invis camo and sow up natch <---- 54 ranger) id buff up for fun with SLD Coat Str FLC CoS DS Son FoN SoW Turle Skin from Lod boots re camo and enter cave
get behind him cast snare and dice, he drops fairly easily naturally, and any adds were ignored after i looted corpse just ran to grim for zone if no one was there

17 kills and then it dropped i use it for my fletching gets me to 205 wis now
____________________________
99 NIN/DNC/WAR/MNK/SAM/BST/WHM/RDM
70 BLM/RNG
Elder Wolf Hide
# Mar 12 2002 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Just wondering if the price of this item has gone up do to the recent change in the zone. I imagine the drop rate of this item has decreased significantly and this item is now very rare drop.
____________________________
SilvanOshae
49 Ranger
Morell Thule
Selling
# Feb 28 2002 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
Is there anyone on BB that would like to sell this item? Contact me please Sapper_six@hotmail.com Thanks!
____________________________
Me Ubah Ogah!

Tank god for da blood of hero's !
Elder Wolf Hide
# Feb 27 2002 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
46 posts
Camped Ghowlik. Killed him 5 times and PH (packleader) 5 times. PH dropped nothing each time. Ghowlik dropped the Jawbone 3 times and Elder Wolf Hide and nothing. He is a 20 min spawn with Approx. 1500hp. He spawns in the back right corner of the cave. Just my Experience.
____________________________
Beornagar
Barbarian
Prophet
Vallon Zek
WOOT GOT IT!!
# Feb 23 2002 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
28 posts
I have to say that this really the first item I ever camped solo that is really awesome and is great for my class and level. Nearly all my other items I had to buy. I am a 36 ranger and was able to pull this off.
It took me about 8 hours and I only killed the PH 3 times and Ghowlik twice to get it. They WILL train when you try to pull Ghowlik from outside unless the wolves are green to you.

How I did it:
I killed only one guardian the one to the right first. Then camo, select the sonic wolf that is just inside room to the far right in the path of Ghowlik (he always comes with the train). Now watch the movements of the walkers. Wait till at least 2 are out, this takes some patience and learing their patterns. Harmony the sonic from just outside where the guardian was (staying just out of aggro range from the other guardian). Now you have 2 minutes. Harmony the other guardian. Now select a walker, just as he is about to head in Harmony again. This will lull all the sonics in the cave entrance. camo fast run in select Khowlik go out just to left of cave just above guardian and fire stinging swarm.
And RUN your *** of to Grim zone. Do not look back, trust me on this lol. Now your at zone Snare. If there is an add fear him. 50% of the time the feared add didnt come back, they run very fast. Your golden.
Now I'd did this camp in the middle of the night. There was no one else in zone most of the time, thus I was able to keep bringing trains before I figured this all out, but I don't recommend training to the zone like this if there is anybody (lower levels) around at zone area.

I hope this helps. This one was of my proudest moments to pull this off all alone. Also PH drops a nice 6/22 piercer, Cool I needed to work on my pierce 8) Good luck all hope this helps.

Finally
# Feb 23 2002 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
*
74 posts
Got mine on the second time around from the Ol' Wolf. I see people posting all the time about how they got UBER loots in 10-15 mins and always thought...."How Lucky" But it must have been my night, just wandered thru...saw the named sonic wolf and invised.....dropped him once....got Elder Blade....2nd time, got this nice Shoulder Item.....LOL

Good Luck Friends
____________________________
Qzet Forestmyst
Hunter of 65 scars
Realm of Ages Guild
Fennin Ro
www.realmofages.com
"Beauty is in the eye of the Swordholder"
40 sk
# Feb 20 2002 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
can a 40 sk take this guy?
RE: 40 sk
# Feb 20 2002 at 10:50 PM Rating: Default
*
82 posts
Yes but the real question is are you willing to put the time necessary for the camp? This is one of those 6 hours plus camps. I killed dozens of Glowliks before looting the hide. After the patch this item is even more rare. Plan on spending at least two days to get it unless you're one of those extremely lucky types...which in case you should be playing the lotto instead of EQ.

My advice is to buy it off some farmer for 2-3k a copy. Well worth the price considering its obvious value and absurd camp time.
Ghowlik Info
# Feb 18 2002 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
spawns every 19min 30 sec and ghowlik has a high MR. his ph is a sonic packleader

Edited, Mon Feb 18 23:19:46 2002
I am there today
# Feb 17 2002 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
and don't see him or his placeholder. Do you have to wipe out the entire cave before he spawns?
Size: SMALL?
# Feb 17 2002 at 2:47 PM Rating: Default
34 posts
Since this is a small item, I was just wondering if anyone that can't wear small items has tried this on for size. Being that is does say ALL ALL in the description.

Just curious.

RE: Size: SMALL?
# Feb 24 2002 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
22 posts
The item size has nothing to do with who can wear it. Item size pertains to what size container it can be held in.
Boring
# Feb 12 2002 at 12:36 AM Rating: Decent
*
82 posts
This is a rare drop off a rare spawn. You're in for a long boring camp. I waited for over six hours and at least 10 Growliks before I got mine. Good luck.
Elder Wolf Hide
# Feb 02 2002 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
15 posts
I bought mine for 2400pp on The Nameless server. This replaced a lizardscale mantle that I had been wearin. The extra stats and Ac will be welcomed.
____________________________
MrBarlo
...The Seeker of Lost Worlds...
I have come to tell you what it is
like there in the Dragon's belly...
Prayer shawl comparison
# Jan 22 2002 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
19 posts
Well I feel really really jipped. I've spent countless weeks upon weeks working towards getting the coldain prayer shawls and this comes out and is at least as good as the 5th shawl.
Got It
# Jan 21 2002 at 2:14 AM Rating: Excellent
1 post
Here's the deal:
The respawn rate is 19:30
I had to kill about 20 Growliks before this dropped.
I had as many as 4 Growliks spawn in a row and I had the PH spawn as many as 6 times in a row. The average seemed like a couple PHs for every Growlik.
You can pull just Growlik (or the PH), without killing any other wolves: just invis, go in the cave and target Growlik, go back outside and up the hill (you are now above Growlik) and cast something to pull him. He will come out and up to you without bringing any of his friends.
The bottom line is this is a long boring camp. Expect to spend a few days before you get the drop. The good news is you can safely sit above the cave and just check up on your character every 20 minutes.

Stik
45 Necro
SolRo
RE: Got It
# Mar 04 2002 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
I also tried this technique,worked great.Took about 2 hours before i got hide.Got the Jawbone on first spawn of Ghowliz.Thanks for the info.BTW solo this with a 45 shammy.Put up pet spell,went invis tag ph or Ghowliz,went outside brought pet to life and then cast on the target.Sweet 8=)...
RE: Got It
# Jan 22 2002 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
5 posts
Applied this technique today at lunch after reading these posts. Ghowliz was there and dropped it on the 1st kill! I must be very lucky (total camp time 5 mins). Anyway, this technique of targeting while invis and going above the cave works great! No Agros.

Freuditab
51 Druid


Edited, Mon Jan 28 13:42:43 2002
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