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Onyx Chain Sleeves  
 

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: ARMS
AC: 38
STR: +4 DEX: +4 STA: +4 CHA: +4 WIS: +4 INT: +4 AGI: +4 HP: +40 MANA: +40 ENDUR: +40
SV FIRE: +6 SV DISEASE: +6 SV COLD: +6 SV MAGIC: +6 SV POISON: +6
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
Class: WAR CLR PAL RNG SHD BRD ROG SHM BER
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)
Slot 2, Type 21 (Special Ornamentation)
Item Type:Armor
Appearance:Velious Chain 1
Tint:
 
Color (RGB):60, 60, 60
Stackable:No
Lucy Entry By:hob
Item Updated By:Oxgoad
Source:Live
IC Last Updated:2019-09-12 12:39:11
Page Updated:Thu Oct 9th, 2008
Scars of Velious Item


Rarity: Rare
Level to Attain: 55

[Drops | Comments ]

Drops: This item is found on creatures.

Temple of Veeshan


Zone(s) Found In:
Screenshot
Onyx Chain Sleeves item window 2016

Uploaded November 9th, 2016 by snailish
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To all the idiots.
# Nov 07 2002 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
*
216 posts
#1- These drop in NtoV off Eashen of the Sky as Semi-Common, can drop more than one at a time if you're lucky.
#2- They usually go to Rogues, Rangers, Shamen first, as they get very few sleeves better than this, even in NtoV, Paladins, Shadowknights, Warriors, Clerics, Bards have numerous items in NtoV itself which put these sleeves to shame.
#3- Yes, Hp matters a crapload, but these are nowhere near "good" hp for the tank classes, go get Spirit Wrecked Cords or something, if your raid leader is dumb enough to award those to a tank (2nd best Rng/Rog/Mnk bracer in the game)
#4 - Monks do not get these, as they have a full suit of armor in NtoV which is more or less targetted at them, the Ancient Wurm, and Wyvern armors, as well as Destroyer pieces, all usually go to monks before anyone else.
#5- Druids dont get these because they are NOT a chain class, the way we tell what kind of armor type an item is, is trough looking at the lowest type armor user who can use it.
Example: Acid Scarred Chain Tunic.
-Useable by all meele classes by monks, all plate classes.
Ranger/Rogue/Shamen can all use it. They are the lowest armor type allowed user on the item. Therefore its chain.
Example: BP of Vindication, all plate users, and shamen.
Shamen can not wear plate, therefore BP of vindication counts as a chain BP (Even though Rng/Rog may not use)
#5 The Onyx Sleeves and Gloves are sadly the only good pieces of that armor, as the legs sort of suck for meeles with their lack of Hp

Oh yea, and another thing, if you can't post something usefull, please do everyone a favor, and dont waste their valueable cyber space with your idiotic drivel.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
____________________________
Ulvian Stormweaver
Warder of Veeshan
-Rage above the storm-
RE: To all the idiots.
# Dec 13 2003 at 2:09 PM Rating: Default
**
464 posts
Well, so long as you are calling everyone idiots, I'll call you on one of your points.

#2- They usually go to Rogues, Rangers, Shamen first, as they get very few sleeves better than this, even in NtoV, Paladins, Shadowknights, Warriors, Clerics, Bards have numerous items in NtoV itself which put these sleeves to shame.

Really? What arms do Warriors get in NToV that put these to shame? In fact, Priests, Bards, and Pure Casters are the ONLY classes that will see better arms than this in NToV, and those are off Vulak'aerr. These arms are the best that you will find for all melees out of NToV PERIOD. Now if you are saying that there are better ITEMS for Warriors, well of course there are. But then, that statement can be made about every class you listed, too.

Of course, as with all statements like these, it really doesn't matter. Guilds will figure out how to handle loot themselves regardless of the drivel posted on these boards. I do wish people would at least make sure what they are posting is true before they post it. The rest of your post was convoluted and confusing (Vindi BP is chain? Where the hell did you get that from? In fact, there are several BreastPLATES that shamen can use. Rangers, too.)

Maybe you should take your own advice and not "waste our valuable cyberspace with your idiotic drivel".
____________________________
Lord Grieger Venificus
Darkreaper of Cazic Thule
<triality>
Maelin Starpyre
RE: To all the idiots.
# Jan 11 2003 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
Sage
*
248 posts
Points one and two were good. As for the rest ...
Monks and druids CAN'T WEAR THESE.
As for 'no, this is leather - no, this is chain!" WHO CARES? If you can put it on, I don't care WHAT you call it.

These ARE great shammy arms. As for the rest, I don't know. My guild uses points (basically 1pt/hr of raiding) to bid on items. While it is true that warriors probably CAN get better gear from NToV than these, I haven't seen them drop yet (remember this is the FIRST mob in NToV, not everyone that drops Eashen is doing Ring of Vulak) .... whenever it drops for us I just have to outbid them and hope that they wait for the goodies later.
(of course, if we drop Eashen often enough, all the high rollers drop out of the race after the first few drops ...)

Anyway, just my two cents. Before these, I've been pretty happy with my Gladiator's Chain Sleeves (which I think are better than Kael/SS arms - they are MUCH easier to get anyway). I don't need the STR on them at all, but decent AC, HP, and resists are always nice. See you in the field!

- Paghk Heyokah'Zek, MT
#Kagaek, Posted: Jan 06 2003 at 10:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You have clearly never heard of dkp, idiot.
#Ulvian, Posted: Nov 07 2002 at 12:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post)
Info
# Nov 05 2002 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
*
61 posts
The stats have changed on them.. they are now 38ac 4all stats and 40hps/40mana
Genoz....
# Apr 29 2002 at 2:58 PM Rating: Default
*
61 posts
Genoz, my friends' 60 Ranger outdamages 60 warriors all the time, just because warriors get triple attack doesn't mean anything......warriors can put out a ton of damage, but rangers can do better. Maybe you should quit being ignorant, and get over your little superiority complex....stop flaming other classes on boards, then actually go learn this. Oh yeah, and by the way, Ranger epic is not a cake walk, the shattered emerald of corruption (do you even know what this is?) is the hardest part of the ranger epic, very hard to come across one because of it's rarity, of course some rangers get lucky, but others have waited well over a year to get this.

Melee DD - Rogue, Monk, Ranger
TANK - Warrior

although other classes can tank, it's a warrior's job, just leave it at that.
RE: Genoz....
# Oct 17 2002 at 12:22 AM Rating: Default
*
101 posts
Been after my SEoC for over a year and half now. Been on more hate raids then I care to count.
____________________________
-Draygar Stormbow
Guardian of the Glade
The "Lost Ranger" of Zebuxoruk
Monks
# Apr 18 2002 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
32 posts
I'm really glad to see that 90% of the posts on this page are on monks vs. other tanks. Can you get ANY MORE OFF TOPIC?? They arent on the usable class so how the hell did this conversation get started? sheesh
#Nuight, Posted: Feb 14 2002 at 6:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Battan ur the fekkin idiot... Rogues out damage monks Ive seen it happen, it happens ALL the time, and yes by the same levels.
#Celaeb, Posted: Feb 26 2002 at 12:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Double backstab > all other melee
Item upgraded!
# Jan 08 2002 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
42 posts
Eashen dropped two of these on the Prexus server on 1/8/02. The stats were better than listed: 38AC, 4 to all stats, and 40 hp/mana. Resists and class/race are the same as shown.
____________________________
Ismena, 65 Cleric
Prexus
That's =Doctor= Barbie to you
#Barneby, Posted: Oct 23 2001 at 9:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this whole friggen page is filled with crap about monks...complaining monks at that. does this item have monk on it? nope, go make a "complaining monks" forum or something, or try talking to people who give a ****
#Anonymous, Posted: Oct 22 2001 at 11:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "Monks cant tank"
#Battan, Posted: Jan 04 2002 at 1:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why is there even an arguement on monks tanking? Warriors are tanks, thus the nickname meatshield. As for dmg dealers...monks #1, rogues #2, warrior #3. And before all you wizzies and mages jump in and start flaming...I am refering to melee only here. Monks and Rogues can't take a lot of dmg but they can and will deal it so all you warriors out there...max taunt for us please and some of you need to learn how to use it =)
RE: Your all facking idiots
# Feb 15 2002 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
23 posts
First off, I agree with rogues probably being the ones doing the most damage. But its not always true. You have to take into account their weapons. A 60 monk with prime/priceless wraps 15/20, CoF, Monk Epic is going to do a lot more damage than any 60 rogue with just an epic and lets say Jagged Blade of Morning. I know, because I see it in my guild. Second, Warriors are not #3. Rangers would be at least #3 if not #2 behind Rogues. Rangers and Monks are pretty equal. Get a ranger some 15/20 weapons too with maxed haste and he can do just as much if not more OR less than the monk.

The only reason rogues can outdamage anyone else is because of BS and Asassinate. Give a ranger that bow off the AoW, Bow of Rallos Zek 43/45 with some 14 dmg arrows from the moon, maxed archery and DEX at 255...watch his trueshot disc output. I've heard someone hit 2k on a critical with one..or close to it. Cannot confirm, maybe just a rumor, but still...
RE: Your all facking idiots
# Dec 13 2003 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,128 posts
I agree with your anaylsis but it could apply to any classes, ie a "monk" with uber lvl 60 gear can outdamage a "rogue" with mediocre gear for lvl 60. Replace monk with almost anything and rogue with almost anything and it will still be true.
The point being that your comparing apples to oranges. Compare instead a rogue with gear jsut as uber as your example monk, and the rogue will oudamage. Acid pocket mithril blade in main and a nice BS % boost dagger in offhand that has good ratio. Epic haste should have been replced by better haste item by level 60 ie 41% belt from PoA( working on getting mine now). Thus gear, AA and experince playing the class will all effect who will outdamage, who in addition to class/lvl.
____________________________
©
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken

"Ha! I laugh at danger and drop ice cubes down the vest of fear." - Blackadder
#Musirkeshda, Posted: Jan 18 2002 at 8:29 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) According to Verant in one of their last big news messages, Rogues at high lvls were the largest dmg dealers in game. This is balanced by their low HP and relatively low AC.
RE: Your all facking idiots
# Apr 02 2002 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
6 posts
silly hybrids :)

Edited, Sat Jun 15 06:07:45 2002
____________________________
..and I'm spent.
Genoz - Warlord of Soul Cadre
Torvonnilous
RE: Your all facking idiots
# Jun 15 2002 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
7 posts
ummm Rouge are pure melee... how you got hybrid i dunno..

and reason a monk/ranger/rouge/pally/sk will ammount to a war at tanking is cause his defence parry/reposite/dodge ect... so whoever was saying eariler that monks can tank is outta his freaking mind.. i got 4k+ hp and 1200+ ac... i only tank when its OS time and people are camping
/disc weapondhield is a great thing

Baylen Nightshade
Warder of Tunare
Veeshan Server
#Anonymous, Posted: May 25 2001 at 3:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this idem is hoaks. it must be a veery big joak. i think it cannot hav all these good things on it and steel be reel. i wished peeple wood not poast sucj garbaje on board that is mint to be used by peeple how like to get lots good infirmation from other peeples abot what thinks are. insted always talk abit monks and one moor thingk this has to proov this idem is joak is no grafic of item and you peeples think one carractor bettir than anuther carractor just becuz you pla it. plus this idem has no wait? this is why it all a joke.
#Anonymous, Posted: Jun 18 2001 at 9:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) omfg i hope thats a joke, either your 6 years old, some gay foriegn korean ****, or on drugs. either way, dont post, ever, ever again. took me about 5 minutes to decipher that $hi'|'.
heh
# May 20 2001 at 6:56 AM Rating: Default
Kinda surprised about the monk bashing. 60 Monk in my guild, fully buffed has the same/more AC and within ~300hp of our tanks fully buffed...and deals more damage h2h than a warrior with Epic.
____________________________
Aeolwind Stormrunner

I have walked my way since the begining of time, Sometimes I give, sometimes I take, and it is my choice to know which and when.
#Anonymous, Posted: May 18 2001 at 5:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Umm...I love monks complaining. Here, I'll give you something else to complain about. I dueled a lvl 37 human monk, with my lvl 29 dwarven warrior. He had to use mend twice because I had him down to 1 bub of hp on both occasions. When he finally killed me, he only had 1 and 1/2 bubs of health, and no more mend. I was using an executioners axe, at lvl 29, no proc. hehehe, see, monks were not made for taknig damage. Oh yeah, his instill doubht or disarm never worked either :-). Monks= Great Pullers, good Dmg dealers WORSE tanks for taking damage. Done.
RE: Monks are fun
# May 20 2001 at 12:46 AM Rating: Default
I often think of monks as "Casters of the fist", because they're a lot like manaless wizards. They deal a ton of damage, but if they get something overly pissed off, god help them, because their armor pretty much is simmilar to caster armor when you look at AC (maybe a little higher for monks). But tanks, of course not, they can't even taunt.
MONKS AS TANKS
# May 08 2001 at 3:55 AM Rating: Decent
Sorry guys just a low life lvl 46 mage here to relate a lil story. Today i was camping a slow spawn with a lvl 52 monk. I noticed that my 44 earth pet was outdamaging him and we talked about it. I wanted to know so i asked him to duel my pet.I burned him out and damage shielded him just like i would do any 52 lvl mob i was gunna solo with pet only. I did not heal pet as i might do in a normal fight, and its a good thing the pet back off key worked because he would have died .
Moral of the story Monks have a real need for some ac/hp/better weapons.I felt bad about beating him down after i just read the fd bug below that has been a problem for too long.
Monk being anywhere on a list as lead tank? give it a rest please. As it stands you are a needed part of a lot of group situations,as are just about any other class. But the warrior always was, always will be the true tank. One of a kind very noticable with those meat cleavers they carry and yes very tired of every other player who can hold a sword wanting to get his stats. Cant remember the last time a warrior cried cause he got no spells, unless we talk about the ability to bind within 200 miles of a fight.I agree they should bindable anywhere as a lot of players already are.
This was written by a mage who has no ac to speak of, no hit points, only one buff we can put on players. But i got my pet and we go out daily and try to open the biggest can of whoop *** we can find.Sometimes we lose,though not as often now a days, alot of times we win, and sometimes its a draw.
Anybody need something summoned before i go back to work? thank you.
coloeb summonmaster
46th mage
bertoxx
RE: MONKS AS TANKS
# May 10 2001 at 7:30 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
33 posts
Agreed. Even a lowly TSK wit no int an so so str outdamages a monk of the same level.
Me an a friend monk were fartin around during an intermission at a guild meeting. Dotted wit 2 dots(heat blood and heart flutter) and then jus tanked and we wulda croaked if i didnt stop. and I was only 2 bubs down an HT still up. <shrug> Monkies pull gud tho. Can do loads of dmg when too, but they are like rogues, jus don touch em. They break easy.

Catchya
____________________________
Kazran Kazzanova
Smiley: boozing
RE: MONKS AS TANKS
# Jun 29 2002 at 2:26 PM Rating: Default
17 posts
it all depends on the gear for monks as tanks, some monks i know have more hp/ac than wars of equal level, but no defensive disc. take Denron for example, El monk de`pwn.. 4400 or something unbuffed hp, 1400 around ac... monks can tank at times... just not for AoW/Tunare/Vulak and sheet.

G r a n d M a s t e r of Veeshan
Tanks
# May 07 2001 at 4:08 AM Rating: Good
27 posts
Could someone please explain what class is the best tank and why. Pardon the question, although the answer is obvious.
Just in case someone REALLY doesnt know, Ill give you a hint, the best tank class IS NOT a class that cant taunt. If you are a monk, make sure the taunters in your group taunt like crazy, thats what keeps you alive, as well as the casters acnd healers. A tank should be able to target and taunt any mob that is hitting someone other than the tank. Thats a tanks job. My main character is a 52 dark elf warrior. I make sure every mob that is pulled is smacking me around and not someone else. While they are doing that the rest of the group is smacking around the first poor mob that is to die. And if theres only a single run-of-the-mill mob, pity it if theres a monk in a group with me, but dont take too long, the monk will probably kill it while its beating on me. Being as my character is a dark elf warrior, Im pretty pleased to see a 0.0 weight item that has a badass AC. Just improves my chances of keeping my party alive without lowering my ac because Im encumbered by heavy armor. And before anyone flames me, my character is Garetjax and I play on the Povar server. Come watch the show sometime. I dont disappoint.

#Anonymous, Posted: May 06 2001 at 6:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) monks are baisically made to deal dmg, and their special abilities are not made to reflect that. BUT, the one thing that monks cannot overlook is that they deal more damage faster than warriors at most lvls (though not at the last few lvls so i am told) and they are truely the only major dmg dealers with a way of escaping a dying group (feign death) and sneak and a way to get out of tough spots in most places (safe fall) and the peeps who arent strapped for cash all their life, and they block and they fear and they disarm sooner than warriors so why again did monks get the shaft? with their skills they could practically count as hybrids. They have 16 skills, 4 of them sooner than warriors,10 that they dont get at all,and 3 that let them escape! warriors get 7 skills and besides double attack (same as monks) get them LATER then the monks. Oh, and of course monks got the shaft. Yeah, and that shaft is a 43/44 monk only item that drops in the freeport newbie garden, weight 0.0,effect: the wrath of God, plus 75 to all stats and skills.
RE: monk abilities
# May 07 2001 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
26 posts
Figured I would correct your mistaken impressions on Monks and other classes in general.

This is an end game item, and monks only have been complaining as we approach the end game. As you stated, from about level 56 and upward, warriors begin to do equal damage to us, while still having over 1000 more hp and as much as 500 more ac than we do.

Also speaking of us being the only major damage dealers with an escape. Shadowknights have feign death as we do, although its as useless to them as to us, and rogues have evade, which actually works. Feign death has been broken in groups for just over 9 months now, being broken in the patch that reworked the frenzy code of mobs back in August and Verant hasn't gotten around to fixing. This means a monk, or SK, or necro, just WILL NOT be able to feign death in a group while a mob is beating on him, if anyone else is attacking that same mob. As it has been 9 months, monks have assumed that it will never be fixed now and we are trying to get on with our lives.

And it's true, monks have been blasting almost every piece of eq on alot of boards lately asking, "Why can't monks use this". If you are noticing it alot, then you must be noiticing something else. 10% of any eq coming out of velious is monk usable. Not counting the class armors, there is about as much Warrior only eq as there is eq useable for monks. I personally don't feel we should be allowed to wear this, as it's chain eq, but the only 0.0 eq you can find around is not monk useable now days, and most monk eq coming in weighs 4.0 and up.

Now as this is an end game item, try and look at the end game from a monk's perspective. Before Kunark, monks were amazing at level 50. Now they still are very good at 50. This was because of the skill caps. Above level 50 after kunark, the other classes got their skills increased and the gap narrowed to 3 or 4 points in most cases. Now at 60, a monk caps at 252 in weapon skills and offence while a warrior caps at 250 in weapons skills and 252 in offence.

A summary-

1. I am the third best melee damage dealer.
2. I have half the hp of a warrior and alot less ac than warriors, paladins, rangers, rogues, etc.
3. My 'escape' skill is broken and will never be fixed.
4. Verant is coding mobs in new zones so they resist our pulling methods.
5. Monk weapons and armor are very expensive as they are in short supply.
6. There is very little equipment around that is Monk useable.
7. Anything I can use, I normally have to roll against casters, If I'm allowed to roll at all.

Now I'm not saying that I hate playing a monk. I love the class, and have never had more fun in my life, but there is a reason that the Monk Talk forum was one of the longest when out class is one of the lowest played. There is a reason that you always see us around asking about monk eq. If Verant were to fix the Feign Death bugs, or at least the big one, give us the minimum damage boosts on flying kick and normal attacks, and start making eq for us again, monks would be alot happier. It's really not alot to ask.
#Anonymous, Posted: May 06 2001 at 9:08 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well I fig, since you were whining, I'd just point that out to you. RANGERS ROCK!!!!
All around stats = human Paladin perfection
# May 05 2001 at 5:08 PM Rating: Default
A human Paladin has basicly even stats around the board and pieces like this just add to their amazingly rounded base.
This should never go to plate classes.
# May 08 2001 at 7:17 AM Rating: Default
Sage
**
295 posts
Its AC is much too low for them. Give it to a rogue or ranger.
____________________________
Tehom
RE: This should never go to plate classes.
# Oct 19 2002 at 3:02 PM Rating: Default
*
121 posts
Not about ac, it's about sta/hp.

Not many choices in regards to people who are starting NToV. 4sta/40hp ain't that bad.
St00pid Monks
# May 04 2001 at 12:32 PM Rating: Default
Why the heck do monks think that everything must have them included. Your monks for crying out loud...you know, not the ph4+ l3w+ caring type, your suppose to be spiritual and all that crap. Give it up already, no one cares about monks!
read the damn name, monks
# May 19 2001 at 6:14 PM Rating: Default
They are CHAIN sleeves for the love of God!

Last I checked, monks were NOT a chain class!
#Anonymous, Posted: May 05 2001 at 12:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You should really post your name... So when your 46+ and try to go on a hate raid, the monks will laugh and refuse to pull till someone translocates you. And btw, monks seem greedy because we have gotten little to nothing in the past... First eq, we didnt even have good weapons... Kunark, good weapons, still no good armor... Velious, oh hey look, monks are getting gear now.
#Anonymous, Posted: May 04 2001 at 12:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) U!!!!
#Anonymous, Posted: May 04 2001 at 12:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) F
#Anonymous, Posted: May 04 2001 at 12:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) T
#Anonymous, Posted: May 04 2001 at 12:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) S
Dropped by Eashen of the Sky
# May 04 2001 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
A tough drake in the Forbidden Area of ToV.
Are these for real?
# May 04 2001 at 6:59 AM Rating: Default
Are these things for real? The weight of 0.0 is a bit odd (though possible) - but the size is TINY??
RE: Are these for real?
# May 04 2001 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default
The item size (in this case TINY) only dictates what type of container it can be stored in.
What no Druids?
# May 03 2001 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
hahaha just playin but seriously i feel like starting one of those classes just so i can use this.

____________________________
Cleitus Cottonpiicker
Druid of the Tribunal
whoaaaa
# May 03 2001 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Gawd damn..makes me wish I had velious. maybe I wont wait til lvl 30 to get it.
RE: whoaaaa
# May 03 2001 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
Don't stress to much friend...first you need to get about 55-60 and be in a uber guild, then worry about getting armor like this.

(not trying to pop yer balloon, just being realistic)
____________________________
Gestalt
60 Grandmaster
ARo
#Anonymous, Posted: May 04 2001 at 3:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Actually anything under 58 is considered useless that deep in ToV.
How would you know?
# May 06 2001 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
I've personally been raiding this deep (and much deeper) in ToV, and killed Eashon numerous times. We aren't all 58+ plus. We don't always have a level 60 paladin to DS, and a lower level paladin for DG isn't bad. Level 55 mages are huge. And I wouldn't scoff at the damage output of a 57 rogue or the utility of a level 57 cleric.

Sure, ideally you want everyone to be 60, and most people this deep in will be. But that's not gonna happen for a few months as more people catch up.
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