Original
Here's a quick thought. This is a high end game item. The reason why it's worth 40k plus is because it is an item you don't upgrade from once you have it. Therefore, this is an actual need to a mellee based class. Personally, I've come close to getting one of these once, and gotten seriously jipped out. If I got it, I wouldn't sell it, there simply isn't a better haste item out there. And, if I were to sell it, chances are I would give it to a friend who was on the raid to begin with who deserved it, and would actually use it. Here's my experience with this cloak. I went on two ixiblat fer hits, only bard, instantly placed in MA's group for resist's and my haste. All fine and dandy. Initially told I could roll on any drops that I could use. Ixiblat fell the first time, caster item dropped, casters rolled. All kewl. Someone mentions wanting to kill Slixin Klex, so I go running off and pull Slixin to the camp, Slixin goes down, dunno if he had what they were looking for or not. Go out to explore around the zone a bit, while the hand in mob respawns, they say in channel that the hand in mob spawned, so I rush back to the camp and get right behind the MA again. This time we kill Ixi flawless, no deaths, not even one. CoF dropped, instantly someone from their guild ninja'd, at first no one knew were it was. But, the Raid Leader THEN announced that no rolls will be done on the item because it can better suit the guild bank to be given to the MA for each and every raid. Personally, I'm never going to raid with them again. I would have to have rolled against 50 something people to get the cloak, so my chances were already slim to none, therefore, if a roll was done, and I lost, I would have accepted it and been kewl with the whole thing. However, the fact was, I was not in their guild, how did it benefit me to have even helped? If I had rolled and lost, then I would have walked away without hard feelings. I perfectly understand losing a game of dice. But to be blatantly lied to. No. That's unforgiveable. You may say there's no honor, and, ya know what, I'm beginning to agree with those that say that.
About NBG, it should honestly be changed to UBG. If you can UPGRADE with that item from an item in your personal inventory, then you should be allowed to roll on it, granted, an item as valueable as this, I would have to say the roller would give up their current haste item for, since the two will not stack with one another, I doubt heavilly that anyone would refuse to give up their SCHW or FBSS for the purpose of greed. Also, it is wrong to give the item to someone who will only sell it, if someone else there would probably be the one buying it. Honestly, that's messed up. Most of the time people go to things like that because they can't afford to buy it either, so they want to EARN it, which was the original point to it existing in the first place. Certain items are handmedown kind of items. If you would allow rolling on a Treeweave, only worth 2k most of the time less, then why not allow rolling on this? Power hungry, or just plain greedy. Remember, you DO make an impression for yourself no matter were you go, the more bad impressions you make, the less likely you are to have the support you will need to do it again later, or perhaps you sacrifice the support you need to get a CoF, but then when time to kill the higher up mobs for your epic, your going to have a fun time getting support to do it if you clearly jip people the initial time over.
I don't believe that a guild should ever exlude non-guildy's from the rolls, take into account that they have to roll against ALL of the people there in your guild. Meaning there's a 90 plus percent chance that it is going to stay in the guild anyways, and, if the 10 percent deal actually happens, then be happy for the person who just got really, really lucky!
Sorry for the rant, but I had to let that go somewhere somehow. You'll notice the name of the guild is not said, and that's because my experiences with them will not always be anothers. Anywho, I'm out.
Edited, Wed Jul 3 15:35:36 2002
Cloak of Flames
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[Drops | Comments ]
DropsThis item is found on creatures. Burning Woods
Emerald Jungle
Nagafen's Lair
Skyfire Mountains
Western Wastes
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I'm sorry but I was one of those in the guild you helped and can state a couple facts.
1) It was a guild only raid, posted only in our private passworded forum, that was our understanding. We were told that some people from a friendly guild ONLY came to get some familiarity for when they did their clerics epic. It was a signup event in that passworded forum and I still don't know who invited others to this moment.
2) The guild bank part was a piece of confusion that was cleared up today. It was discussed but not communicated to members in time that if a CoF dropped it might be kept in the Guild bank and given to the MA of each raid to keep aggro on them and off clerics/enchanters to prevent wipeouts. Because of the mixup a later melee only roll was done on it and it was awarded today. Btw, our guild designated CoF's as melee roll's long ago when doing regular Nagafen raids. Just as we designated certain other all/all items to casters, and others to certain hybrids.
3) It was a giant mistake not explain our loot rules ahead of time. Any host of a raid can set rules to whatever they want, its people's right to walk away if they don't like them. But not telling people is why the decision was reversed and later a roll on the CoF was given. If you run a large raid in the future hopefully you will learn from out mistake and state you UBG rule ahead of time.
1) It was a guild only raid, posted only in our private passworded forum, that was our understanding. We were told that some people from a friendly guild ONLY came to get some familiarity for when they did their clerics epic. It was a signup event in that passworded forum and I still don't know who invited others to this moment.
2) The guild bank part was a piece of confusion that was cleared up today. It was discussed but not communicated to members in time that if a CoF dropped it might be kept in the Guild bank and given to the MA of each raid to keep aggro on them and off clerics/enchanters to prevent wipeouts. Because of the mixup a later melee only roll was done on it and it was awarded today. Btw, our guild designated CoF's as melee roll's long ago when doing regular Nagafen raids. Just as we designated certain other all/all items to casters, and others to certain hybrids.
3) It was a giant mistake not explain our loot rules ahead of time. Any host of a raid can set rules to whatever they want, its people's right to walk away if they don't like them. But not telling people is why the decision was reversed and later a roll on the CoF was given. If you run a large raid in the future hopefully you will learn from out mistake and state you UBG rule ahead of time.
Voidslayer Jhereg, Destroyer of Worlds, Monk, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
Vanidor Silverbranch, Wizard, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
Vanidor Silverbranch, Wizard, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
*Sigh* As usual I had not seen all planes of the cube. I had not thought that it might have been a total mistake, and, for that I apologize. However, my opinion of guilds in general remains the same. This is not completely due to that incident, however, a multitude of incidents. Either way, the initial post that I made I hope provides some insight for others, and hopefully prevent a mistake like such from happening again.
I saw the CoF on sale on the market today. Nothing more I need to say there.
As far as I know our tank who won the roll is still wearing it.
Voidslayer Jhereg, Destroyer of Worlds, Monk, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
Vanidor Silverbranch, Wizard, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
Vanidor Silverbranch, Wizard, <Celestial Navigators>, Drinal server
48 posts
How can any caster say they should have the right to roll on this? Just because it is not nodrop? How about everyone who only wants items to sell also get to roll on the druid stick and shammy hammer Naggy drops? How about everyone gets to roll on the red scale? You think tanks are going to keep playing with you once you rob one of the only items that is really worth them rolling on?
Simple fact is... Any real guild will tell you that tanks get to roll on this and none other. Dig deeper and you will find that this could even default to the person most in need, or with high status in a guild. Tanks NEED this item, and we need to let them have it. Why else do you think the warriors, Sk's, Monks, Rangers, etc. come at all? The haste items. This is why they kill Naggy, not to get the items to sell or give to an alt, like every other selfish caster noob.
Simple fact is... Any real guild will tell you that tanks get to roll on this and none other. Dig deeper and you will find that this could even default to the person most in need, or with high status in a guild. Tanks NEED this item, and we need to let them have it. Why else do you think the warriors, Sk's, Monks, Rangers, etc. come at all? The haste items. This is why they kill Naggy, not to get the items to sell or give to an alt, like every other selfish caster noob.
Edited, Mon Sep 2 00:42:23 2002
19 posts
Taygarr, grow up. If you can't present a coherent argument, your posts just look like a bunch of whining and ignorant namecalling. And that doesn't do to much to inspire support for your cause.
Edited, Mon Sep 2 00:43:15 2002
Heh. Just an interesting observation, but it seems like the Haste items always get the biggest, longest, and loudest-flaming posts of all the items from the game (all the ones I've ever looked at, anyhow).... Nobody ever agrees on how Haste works, and everyone's arguing about which item's the "best."
Put that together with the arguments about loot rules that you always get on Raid-level drops, and it gets REALLY long. 3 pages of posts for the CoF, for example, and each page on mine is 22 top-to-bottom screens at 1024x768 resolution, LOL.
I'm happy for now with my Grimling Skullcracker belt. The stats alone were an upgrade to what I used to have, so the fact that it had any Haste at all was a bonus. If I ever lay my mitts on another permanent-Haste item, I'll compare 'em for myself and make my own decision on the spot :)
Put that together with the arguments about loot rules that you always get on Raid-level drops, and it gets REALLY long. 3 pages of posts for the CoF, for example, and each page on mine is 22 top-to-bottom screens at 1024x768 resolution, LOL.
I'm happy for now with my Grimling Skullcracker belt. The stats alone were an upgrade to what I used to have, so the fact that it had any Haste at all was a bonus. If I ever lay my mitts on another permanent-Haste item, I'll compare 'em for myself and make my own decision on the spot :)
When I lead raids I do it like this.. if its only one class.. i let that class only roll on it.. or those classes that are listed on the item in question... anything All/All gets rolled on by everyone.. no matter what. Fair to everyone so no one ********
Aadyn Pryde
Druid
Aadyn Pryde
Druid
19 posts
I'm sorry, but I can't agree that your policy is "fair." Most all/all items should be rolled for by everyone, true. Haste items are a different story, however. The most crucial element to a tank's effectiveness is the ammount of damage he can do in a given amount of time. (yes, I know it's also important for them to have good AC if main tanking, but when raiding there's only 1 MT and many aux. tanks...therefore damage is more important) It is true that the number of haste items in the game has increased much in the last couple of years, but they are still rare. For most tanks, getting one is like a dream come true, especially one as good as a CoF.
That being said, there should always be a concerted effort to keep equipment at appropriate levels (within reason, of course) If CoF's end up going to the high level tanks, they will be used by those same high level tanks. How much more effective will high level raids be because of this? 'Cause, ya see, if you let someone loot it who can't use it, what's gonna happen? They're gonna sell it. Who's gonna buy it? Some level 60 with ungodly ammounts of money who is twinking his level 3 shadowknight.
That being said, there should always be a concerted effort to keep equipment at appropriate levels (within reason, of course) If CoF's end up going to the high level tanks, they will be used by those same high level tanks. How much more effective will high level raids be because of this? 'Cause, ya see, if you let someone loot it who can't use it, what's gonna happen? They're gonna sell it. Who's gonna buy it? Some level 60 with ungodly ammounts of money who is twinking his level 3 shadowknight.
well.. to be honest with you guys.. ok yes.. a haste item to a wizard is pointless.. if its no drop ..theres absolutely no point for him to role on it.. but! if the item is not no drop and is all all.. i think everyone should have the oportunity to roll on it .. just because the item is not as useful to the persons character does not mean its not useful to the person.. selling the item might help the caster that cant use the haste item get an item that can help him.. or he may have an alt that can use it.. all in all.. if the item is not no drop and is all all.. everyone that is involved in killin what it drops off should have a chance to roll on the item.. for someone to say ohhh nooo its a haste item.. so all warriors cause we need it more should roll on it.. to me.. is selfish lol.. =P
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
19 posts
And wanting to roll on it so that you can sell it isn't selfish?
If a character is going to use an item, and they participated in the killing of the mob that dropped it, they should always, always be the only people to roll for it. If no one wants to use it, then those who will sell it/give it to an alt should roll for it.
If something, with say...Flowing Thought II dropped, and wasn't no drop, should tanks be allowed to roll for it? Hell no. It should go to a caster who is going to use it.
Edited, Thu Jun 27 12:03:31 2002
If a character is going to use an item, and they participated in the killing of the mob that dropped it, they should always, always be the only people to roll for it. If no one wants to use it, then those who will sell it/give it to an alt should roll for it.
If something, with say...Flowing Thought II dropped, and wasn't no drop, should tanks be allowed to roll for it? Hell no. It should go to a caster who is going to use it.
Edited, Thu Jun 27 12:03:31 2002
errr you need to read on man.. first of all i said if its no drop then it should only be rolled on by the available class that can use it.. so that went out the window fast.. and secondly.. define selfish in this game?? i do more then my share of helping.. and im happy to do it for anyone.. does that mean that if i want to own a nice item i shouldnt have the chance to? thats gay.. if u want to roll on a casters item i dont care.. be my guest.. and every class can use an item thats not no drop.. i dont care who u are u can use it.. cause that item can produce other things for u.. like skills being brought up with the money you get for it such.. your being narrow minded lol..
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season
the seventh hammer
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season
the seventh hammer
LOL you guys are funny. I have a level 60 epic cleric. Guilds invite me to raids all the time and sometimes I don't get to roll on anything because I can't use the item. Oh yeah I just love donating my time and efforts to helping others get uber crap. I am one of the most important group classes in the game yet also one of the most boring. For this reason I have alts. If I never get to loot anything that I can sell or give to my alts I am Sh** out of Luck. To the guilds that do that I later say ***** you when I get invited to a raid. I think if people put in their freaking time to kill something they should have the opportunity to roll on it. They deserve it just as much as the classes that can use it. To those who whine that melee should only loot 99% of the items that drop on raids, trying raiding without any casters or healers. I'm sure you will have fun. They aren't there to make your life easier. They are they to get stuff too.
19 posts
You raise a good point, airday. You have a couple of options.
a) Join a guild that does raids on which you get loot. If you are a 60 cleric with your epic, you should have no trouble getting into one of these guilds. That way, you won't have to go on raids where nothing drops for you.
b) Level your alts so they have a chance to get some loot for themselves, instead of just twinking them. This could also help solve your boredom problem.
Believe it or not, not everyone that plays EQ is in it for the loot, or even the exp. As Bikamar pointed out, further down in these threads, sometimes people do things because they want to help others. Heck, some people raid because they enjoy raiding! It's a novel concept, I know. As a Paladin, I've been on multiple first floor Hate raids. Almost nothing that would be of any use to me drops there. So why do I do it? Because I enjoy raiding, and I enjoy helping flesh out the tank side of a raiding party. I'm not saying this to be "holier than thou." I'm saying it because there are more things in the game than loot and exp.
Norrath would be a lot better place if more people remembered that.
a) Join a guild that does raids on which you get loot. If you are a 60 cleric with your epic, you should have no trouble getting into one of these guilds. That way, you won't have to go on raids where nothing drops for you.
b) Level your alts so they have a chance to get some loot for themselves, instead of just twinking them. This could also help solve your boredom problem.
Believe it or not, not everyone that plays EQ is in it for the loot, or even the exp. As Bikamar pointed out, further down in these threads, sometimes people do things because they want to help others. Heck, some people raid because they enjoy raiding! It's a novel concept, I know. As a Paladin, I've been on multiple first floor Hate raids. Almost nothing that would be of any use to me drops there. So why do I do it? Because I enjoy raiding, and I enjoy helping flesh out the tank side of a raiding party. I'm not saying this to be "holier than thou." I'm saying it because there are more things in the game than loot and exp.
Norrath would be a lot better place if more people remembered that.
bingo.. my point exactly
46 posts
Well, no matter what, it's pretty much up to the raid leader who gets to roll on what. They the ones who set up the raid, spent all the time getting ready for it, and all the effort trying to keep everyone in line.
well yea.. that is and isnt true.. as you lvl into the late fifties u dont have raids of 40 people anymore.. sometimes u do raids of like one to two grps .. 58 + and can still get great loot.. so thats sorta true.. depends though
taygarr
wiz of the 54th season
the seventh hammer
taygarr
wiz of the 54th season
the seventh hammer
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 06 2002 at 5:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok, I just started raiding, and the 2 naggy raids Ive been on I havent seen a CoF drop but I really think everyone should roll on it with the possible exception of guild raids which are a different story anyway. I have both a 51 wizard and a 47 bard and while I havent brought the wizard on any raids I do think the wizard should get to role. The reason being is lets say you take this cloak and sell it. 30k on Innoruuk. Well that buys some seriously nice gear for the caster. May sound greedy but its not depriving a tank of it. Some tank would buy it. Personally Id stick it on my bard and sell the DB sash shes using instead. If an item is no drop and one class only then its right to have just the class roll. But if it has value on the open market it should be rolled on by all. Getting 30k platinum is a trick for some of us. We all dont have level 60 farmers. Im lucky to have 7 or 8k in the bank and people still tell me I'm rich. Money buys power for a caster. Ok, So my wizards int is at 220 and doesnt need to go up, Her resists do.
24 posts
So yer saying that if you were raiding and say.....Boots of flowing thought dropped(These are the well known Flowing Thought3 boots)...now these are pure caster only....that if yer only pure caster there that you would have to roll against entire party? Stop being greedy fool.
I've seen about 10 pairs of boots of flowing slime on sale in the auction channels. When I do a /who all, several of the sellers have been melees.
NBG is fine, if its a guild event. Pickup naggy raids are different, because nothing good drops for seveal classes. I did naggy a few times, and have since made it a practice to pass on ALL naggy raids, unless some of my guild's melees will be there. I'm not going to waste 2 hours that I can be exp grinding in Seb, or karnor's, and getting loot, to heal for a raid in which I am GUARANTEED nothing for my time. No loot, no exp, just not worth my time. BTW, it was a "nbg" rule system the few times I did naggy raids, and I wasn't even allowed to roll on the treasure hunter's satchel (which I could have used, as I am a blacksmith, among other tradeskills). Funny how the last few naggy raids, I've seen the organizers with someone in the bazaar shouting, and on the auction channel, and sending tells to the non-anonymous clerics (myself included) asking them to join in. One line in guild chat (/guild any of you guys joining the naggy raid). If everyone says no, then I decline. Let the melees 2 box their cleric alts. My cleric is my main, and I'm not wasting several hours on a raid that has crap for an outcome.
NBG is fine, if its a guild event. Pickup naggy raids are different, because nothing good drops for seveal classes. I did naggy a few times, and have since made it a practice to pass on ALL naggy raids, unless some of my guild's melees will be there. I'm not going to waste 2 hours that I can be exp grinding in Seb, or karnor's, and getting loot, to heal for a raid in which I am GUARANTEED nothing for my time. No loot, no exp, just not worth my time. BTW, it was a "nbg" rule system the few times I did naggy raids, and I wasn't even allowed to roll on the treasure hunter's satchel (which I could have used, as I am a blacksmith, among other tradeskills). Funny how the last few naggy raids, I've seen the organizers with someone in the bazaar shouting, and on the auction channel, and sending tells to the non-anonymous clerics (myself included) asking them to join in. One line in guild chat (/guild any of you guys joining the naggy raid). If everyone says no, then I decline. Let the melees 2 box their cleric alts. My cleric is my main, and I'm not wasting several hours on a raid that has crap for an outcome.
37 posts
**Boots of Flowing Slime....
27 posts
Well, most of these post were quite interesting and i have to say i agree to an extent with all of you. I have been on 8 naggy raids with someone else leading (not all the same)
I have also lead 10 naggy raids myself. The big thing wrong with naggy is the poor distribution of the items he drops. The CoF is the best item he has and everything else he drops is nowehre close in value, or usefullness for that matter. I have been on raids where everyone gets to roll on the CoF,ive been on other raids that the CoF was restricted to only pure melle classes. The loot rules are totally up to the leader of the raid so everyone might be different.
The way i did the loot on my raids was like this. All the loot from the FG's like mith legs and arms , tranix crown ect i let ONLY the casters roll on them unless the item was no drop. Reason being is that casters really get screwed outa items on the naggy raid wizards, necro's, enchanters and mage's. They basically get nothing off of naggy. and i let the priest classes roll as well. For the naggy loot i do it like this: all the class specific items are rolled on only my those classes listed. If there isnt a class at the raid like a shaman for the hammer, then everyone gets to roll. any and all gems are rolled on by everyone, the weight reduction bag is rolled on by all. I split the coin up and give it to each group leader to do a /split with the group ( most leaders gank that part so watch it )
If 1 CoF drops ONLY melle classes roll. why? Because i think thats the way it should be. with that, if only 1 CoF drops AND the dagger drops as well, then i let ONLY the casters roll on the dagger ( its 9/25 with a proc and sellable)
IF 2 CoF drops then the first one is randomed by Melle only , then the second one is randomed by all. I do this to ensure that 1 melle gets the CoF Why? because thats the way i think it should be.IF the dagger drops with the 2 CoF if 2 melles win the CoF then teh dagger is randomed my ONLY the casters, IF a melle and a caster wins then the dagger is rolled on by all.
IF and i mean IF 3 CoF drops ( ive seen it one time out of 20+ raids) then i do 1 melle only roll, then the second one i let everyone roll. The third matters on who won the second. IF a caster wins the 2nd roll, then the 3rd CoF would be rolled on by all again. IF the 2nd roll ( by everyone) was won by another melle, then the 3rd CoF would be rolled on by just casters. IF the dagger drops here, who really cares heh i let everyone roll.
As for the scale, its an epic item and i strongly believe that only bards and warriors should roll on it. BUT if a warrior or Bard wins a CoF they do not get to roll on the scale. on my raids you can only win 1 item. I always random the cloaks first so ppl dont pass on rolls,i want everyone to get a chance at getting something. IF you do the CoF last ( yes it seems more fun) you will get alot of pissed off ppl that pass on like 8 rolls and then lose on the cof roll(s). If you do the CoF first, there will be more happy ppl in the end. I just wish he dropped better stuff for everyone. A badd *** int caster only item would be nice. OR a very nice preist BP or something. Its very hard to figure out the loot on a naggy raid since the CoF is so highly prized and everything else is considered crap. Anyways, this is the way i do it and id say 99% of the ppl on my raids agreed totally with how i distibuted the loot. I know how it is being a caster on a naggy raid, i have a 55 wizard and took him on 4 successful naggy raids and i got NOTHING, but, hey can i get a port to.... so i try to let them roll on as much stuff as i can.
Basically to sum this up, almost all naggy raids are pickup. SO, ask how the loot is going to be distributed b4 you go on one,if you dont like the rules, dont go you will most likly be disapointed. as for the CoF its a hard decision on who gets to roll, my opinion is melle only if only one drops, i just cant see myself giving the only coF on a naggy raid to a wizard, yes i know about the selling the cof and the wizard can by stuff with the plat, but i just dont agree with that.
P.S. I dont roll on my raids, dont seem right.)
I just love running a raid, god its fun if you know what your doing.)
Usagii 58 monk povar
Brinks 55 wizard Povar
Drilleck 44 rogue povar
Ynot 42 warrior Povar
I have also lead 10 naggy raids myself. The big thing wrong with naggy is the poor distribution of the items he drops. The CoF is the best item he has and everything else he drops is nowehre close in value, or usefullness for that matter. I have been on raids where everyone gets to roll on the CoF,ive been on other raids that the CoF was restricted to only pure melle classes. The loot rules are totally up to the leader of the raid so everyone might be different.
The way i did the loot on my raids was like this. All the loot from the FG's like mith legs and arms , tranix crown ect i let ONLY the casters roll on them unless the item was no drop. Reason being is that casters really get screwed outa items on the naggy raid wizards, necro's, enchanters and mage's. They basically get nothing off of naggy. and i let the priest classes roll as well. For the naggy loot i do it like this: all the class specific items are rolled on only my those classes listed. If there isnt a class at the raid like a shaman for the hammer, then everyone gets to roll. any and all gems are rolled on by everyone, the weight reduction bag is rolled on by all. I split the coin up and give it to each group leader to do a /split with the group ( most leaders gank that part so watch it )
If 1 CoF drops ONLY melle classes roll. why? Because i think thats the way it should be. with that, if only 1 CoF drops AND the dagger drops as well, then i let ONLY the casters roll on the dagger ( its 9/25 with a proc and sellable)
IF 2 CoF drops then the first one is randomed by Melle only , then the second one is randomed by all. I do this to ensure that 1 melle gets the CoF Why? because thats the way i think it should be.IF the dagger drops with the 2 CoF if 2 melles win the CoF then teh dagger is randomed my ONLY the casters, IF a melle and a caster wins then the dagger is rolled on by all.
IF and i mean IF 3 CoF drops ( ive seen it one time out of 20+ raids) then i do 1 melle only roll, then the second one i let everyone roll. The third matters on who won the second. IF a caster wins the 2nd roll, then the 3rd CoF would be rolled on by all again. IF the 2nd roll ( by everyone) was won by another melle, then the 3rd CoF would be rolled on by just casters. IF the dagger drops here, who really cares heh i let everyone roll.
As for the scale, its an epic item and i strongly believe that only bards and warriors should roll on it. BUT if a warrior or Bard wins a CoF they do not get to roll on the scale. on my raids you can only win 1 item. I always random the cloaks first so ppl dont pass on rolls,i want everyone to get a chance at getting something. IF you do the CoF last ( yes it seems more fun) you will get alot of pissed off ppl that pass on like 8 rolls and then lose on the cof roll(s). If you do the CoF first, there will be more happy ppl in the end. I just wish he dropped better stuff for everyone. A badd *** int caster only item would be nice. OR a very nice preist BP or something. Its very hard to figure out the loot on a naggy raid since the CoF is so highly prized and everything else is considered crap. Anyways, this is the way i do it and id say 99% of the ppl on my raids agreed totally with how i distibuted the loot. I know how it is being a caster on a naggy raid, i have a 55 wizard and took him on 4 successful naggy raids and i got NOTHING, but, hey can i get a port to.... so i try to let them roll on as much stuff as i can.
Basically to sum this up, almost all naggy raids are pickup. SO, ask how the loot is going to be distributed b4 you go on one,if you dont like the rules, dont go you will most likly be disapointed. as for the CoF its a hard decision on who gets to roll, my opinion is melle only if only one drops, i just cant see myself giving the only coF on a naggy raid to a wizard, yes i know about the selling the cof and the wizard can by stuff with the plat, but i just dont agree with that.
P.S. I dont roll on my raids, dont seem right.)
I just love running a raid, god its fun if you know what your doing.)
Usagii 58 monk povar
Brinks 55 wizard Povar
Drilleck 44 rogue povar
Ynot 42 warrior Povar
very well said..only difference i would do here is the casters only on a coif..if one drops melle only including monks and beastlords..if more than one drops it should be an all roll no matter how many more than one drop..would only be fair not to restrit the rolls any further past the first..for the bag and such im definately with you on that..i get so upset when i see stuff usable by all given to just one class like that..
41 posts
Wouldn't you move faster if your cloak was on fire?
3 posts
While the Concept of NBG is good, it is only useful in guild type raids. Honestly folks, who couldnt use a tradeable item. If it is no drop and can only be used by a specific class then of course the one who can use it should loot it. But if the item is tradeable, it is sellable, thereby the plat can be used to acqure something you can use. People are right, items like CoF and RBB are pretty much useless to a caster cast, but that item could be sold for plat that can be used to buy something they can actually use. So NBG in guild raids where the goal is to advance the effectiveness of the entire raid is a good concept, but in all other situations, all loot (tradeable loot) should be open because it can always be sold. I need plat to buy stuff to make myself better, therefore I need it. Not to be greedy, but if NBG is used for everything, then no one would camp Frenzy because no melee class can kill him alone.
Oracle Mith Marr
Oracle Mith Marr
#REDACTED,
Posted: May 09 2002 at 9:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I think MammoonMM is correct. This should be rolled on by all in the raid group unless it is a guild or the item is called by leader at start of raid. Especially seeing as how the money from selling one of these could mean a very significant upgrade in the effectiveness of any class. And if that person is more effective it means Nagy will be that much easier next time. NBG is really about who gets the most immediate use out of an item. And if you are for that argument then only warriors and maybe SK's and Pallies should roll on it, because having that much haste is gonna help you create a lot more agro and that is best saved for the Warriors who are normaly the Tank of the group. SK's make a good Tank in a pinch and Pallies right after them. But any cleric can tell you that Warriors are a lot easier to care for.
That's the whole concept of NBG: even though any idiot can loot and sell something like this, it *should* go to the melee's because they will get the most benefit from it, and unless they have better, it should be theirs primarily.
If everyone on the raid has a CoF or a CoCW, then I could see /random'ing it off, but the odds of that happening are 1 in 1.7 billion.
Your argument about the Frenzied Ghoul is flawed in that people who want to help each other will camp the Frenzied from time to time to help that person get an important and useful item. We aren't all as self-serving as you.
If everyone on the raid has a CoF or a CoCW, then I could see /random'ing it off, but the odds of that happening are 1 in 1.7 billion.
Your argument about the Frenzied Ghoul is flawed in that people who want to help each other will camp the Frenzied from time to time to help that person get an important and useful item. We aren't all as self-serving as you.
i agree with you on alot of terms bikamar,
i hope that you come back to read what i said.. those guys really kinda ticked me off.. we do do it because were friends.. and we do it cause of the satisfaction of helping others and how it makes us feel better.. i know some time soon im going to be going to fear for my epic where i have to kill a golem that has over 100k hitpoints .. i will definetly need the help of others when i do this.. but thats not why i help people.... just enjoy doing so.. the pay backs of many friends and people willing to help is a bonus.. not a means... i still say that this and rolling on a cof as a caster are two completly different things.. cause it does matter what you are doing with the item.. .. nothing wrong with selling an item to make 10 times more money.. or more.. and helping people i dont know is ok.. but i prefer to keep it inside my realm of friends.. if its a guild raid i would never want to loot a mellee item lol.. wtf would i.. but if im just out raiding with some grp of people.. .. ok.. heres a good example.. naggy raid.. lvl 50.. not to long ago.. not one item drops thats caster.. but the cof does drop.. what do i do? i dont know these people.. 2 people there were friends.. the rest were just some people .. do i walk and say ***** it?.. or do i take a chance on getting an item that is worth alot of money and would look pretty friggin killer on my lvl 20 paly =P lol.. not to mention i could get rid of his schw for 6k ..
because i want a chance to roll on this dont make me greedy .. just means id like a chance on the item.. rbg is no good for non guild raids.. theres 5 to 1 odds against casters.. its alot easier for people of mellee classes to call us greedy lol u guys get a chance at alot more loot.. =P and to be honest with you.. GRATZ! i think thats kickin.. i chose a wizzy and i wouldnt have it any other way for my main.. just dont think im narrow minded or selfish because i would roll on the cof or think that its fair to!
=) ty for listening sir scholar =P
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
i hope that you come back to read what i said.. those guys really kinda ticked me off.. we do do it because were friends.. and we do it cause of the satisfaction of helping others and how it makes us feel better.. i know some time soon im going to be going to fear for my epic where i have to kill a golem that has over 100k hitpoints .. i will definetly need the help of others when i do this.. but thats not why i help people.... just enjoy doing so.. the pay backs of many friends and people willing to help is a bonus.. not a means... i still say that this and rolling on a cof as a caster are two completly different things.. cause it does matter what you are doing with the item.. .. nothing wrong with selling an item to make 10 times more money.. or more.. and helping people i dont know is ok.. but i prefer to keep it inside my realm of friends.. if its a guild raid i would never want to loot a mellee item lol.. wtf would i.. but if im just out raiding with some grp of people.. .. ok.. heres a good example.. naggy raid.. lvl 50.. not to long ago.. not one item drops thats caster.. but the cof does drop.. what do i do? i dont know these people.. 2 people there were friends.. the rest were just some people .. do i walk and say ***** it?.. or do i take a chance on getting an item that is worth alot of money and would look pretty friggin killer on my lvl 20 paly =P lol.. not to mention i could get rid of his schw for 6k ..
because i want a chance to roll on this dont make me greedy .. just means id like a chance on the item.. rbg is no good for non guild raids.. theres 5 to 1 odds against casters.. its alot easier for people of mellee classes to call us greedy lol u guys get a chance at alot more loot.. =P and to be honest with you.. GRATZ! i think thats kickin.. i chose a wizzy and i wouldnt have it any other way for my main.. just dont think im narrow minded or selfish because i would roll on the cof or think that its fair to!
=) ty for listening sir scholar =P
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
the most benifit? thats the most retarded thing ive ever heard.. i have a barb war of rallos zek that makes some of the best selling armor in the game.. to get to this point took alotttt of money.. that money was aquired by sometimes rolling on items that i couldnt use and selling them.. now.. the person that i took a cof from once and sold it lost out on a cof.. i was able to advance my skills in smithing wayyy past the price of this cof.. i could buy 10 of them now and not even blink!.. so wtf are u talking about the most benifit.. if u want to make something benificial and u want to have these items.. use ur head moron.. find a way to make money so you can aquire items such as this, instead of calling casters greedy cause were smarter then ur *** .. and his point about aquiring these items is very true as well.. if it wasnt for the non mellee class you couldnt get this stuff.. so unless its a guild effort and it goes to the guild.. i am not giving up the chance for a mellee item to some doods that arent in my guild because they can use it?.. it doesnt mean i cant get better use outta it then them..
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
3 posts
Do not place yourself on this high horse pretending to be a righteous individual who is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. Everyone plays this game for different reasons, and the basis of any reason is only known to themselves. You can claim you play the game for fun, you can claim you play the game for loot, you can even claim you play the game out of shere boredom, the bottom line is the people who play this game are people, human beings behind the monitors and keyboards. And it is the basic nature of human beings to be looking out for #1 and that is themselves. NBG works for guilds and thats the only time it works. My example of the Frenzy ghoul is not flawed because when was the last time you were willing to spend all your spare time camping that spot knowing for a fact you were never ever going to get a chance to obtain that item. I have never seen a melee with a FBSS still camping that spot. You want to help your friends, good for you, but to get something worthwhile for the time and effort extended into a camp is not being selfserving, its just be realistic.
24 posts
"..when was the last time you were willing to spend all your spare time camping that spot knowing for a fact you were never ever going to get a chance to obtain that item.."
Actually, I do that all the time - It's called helping your friends. But maybe you haven't seen it because you don't have any friends.
Actually, I do that all the time - It's called helping your friends. But maybe you haven't seen it because you don't have any friends.
helping people is great!.. i do it all the time.. ask anyone in my guild.. hell ask anyone in my server that knows me.. im well known in my server because im always willing to do raids to go on quests.. or whatever.. with out the need to get anything in return.. but that doesnt mean that i shouldnt roll when i want to on an item that is of significant money.. ive done well more then earn the right to do so.. hell.. i cant tell you how many raids ive lead that were quest raids with two or more grps that were purely for mellee quest items.. like ice forge shackles which i got for about 9 people who some of which had never even heard of them til a wizzy brought up the quest and of those people.. ive only asked 1 person to help me with a wizzy quest cause i dont need their help in return.. i just did it to be nice!... i do my homework on the game.. i take people on quests to help them out.... if i feel like i want an item thats all all and i know it will help me in some way shape or form .. even if its selling it.. ive not only earned that right.. i am going to roll on it to advance my character as well.... and if u are smart .. you will use the money to make more money.. like i did.. then buy items at a later time.. .. use ur heads.. instead of calling people greedy .. your the fools that are being greedy..
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
taygarr
wiz of the 53rd season on the seventh hammer
While I thought your original post was quite good (even if I didn't agree with it), mammoonMM, this one is just plain narrow-minded-I-am-right-so-you-must-be-wrong rubbish.
"Do not place yourself on this high horse pretending to be a righteous individual who is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. Everyone plays this game for different reasons, and the basis of any reason is only known to themselves."
Nice way to contradict yourself here. Saying the previous poster was pretending to be a self-righteous individual then stating people's reason are known only to themselves. Perhaps the previous poster IS a righteous indivdual who DOES sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
"the people who play this game are people, human beings behind the monitors and keyboards. And it is the basic nature of human beings to be looking out for #1 and that is themselves"
Come to this conclusion by yourself did you? You need to meet some more people. I know a great many people (myself included) who will go and spend hours on a camp for a friend even if they already have that item (or better) or cannot use that item. Why do we do it? Because we're friends. (and these camps have included Frenzy)
...I don't appreciate your generalisation classifying me as "looking out for #1". You don't know me, so what makes you think you have the right to include me in that generalistion? or my friends (whom I know I can speak for in cases like this)
"NBG works for guilds and thats the only time it works". Rubbish. What makes NBG work or fail is the people who are in the group/on the raid.
Someone runs a few successful pick-up raids, people start to want to come back for more and more, not just for loot, but to be on that person's raids. They want to be on that person's raids, they stick by their loot rules. And I know quite a few pick-up-raid leaders like this who say NBG - and they still get people flocking to their raids, even when they haven't got a hope of loot.
Conversely, I have been on other raids where the loot was FFA. eg. Naggy a few nights ago. I (51) warrior won a druid only staff via completely FFA loot distribution while a 43 Paladin won the Red Dragon Scale. No, the pally wouldn't trade the scale for the staff LOL
Start thinking outside the square...
Edited, Thu May 16 19:16:08 2002
"Do not place yourself on this high horse pretending to be a righteous individual who is willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. Everyone plays this game for different reasons, and the basis of any reason is only known to themselves."
Nice way to contradict yourself here. Saying the previous poster was pretending to be a self-righteous individual then stating people's reason are known only to themselves. Perhaps the previous poster IS a righteous indivdual who DOES sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
"the people who play this game are people, human beings behind the monitors and keyboards. And it is the basic nature of human beings to be looking out for #1 and that is themselves"
Come to this conclusion by yourself did you? You need to meet some more people. I know a great many people (myself included) who will go and spend hours on a camp for a friend even if they already have that item (or better) or cannot use that item. Why do we do it? Because we're friends. (and these camps have included Frenzy)
...I don't appreciate your generalisation classifying me as "looking out for #1". You don't know me, so what makes you think you have the right to include me in that generalistion? or my friends (whom I know I can speak for in cases like this)
"NBG works for guilds and thats the only time it works". Rubbish. What makes NBG work or fail is the people who are in the group/on the raid.
Someone runs a few successful pick-up raids, people start to want to come back for more and more, not just for loot, but to be on that person's raids. They want to be on that person's raids, they stick by their loot rules. And I know quite a few pick-up-raid leaders like this who say NBG - and they still get people flocking to their raids, even when they haven't got a hope of loot.
Conversely, I have been on other raids where the loot was FFA. eg. Naggy a few nights ago. I (51) warrior won a druid only staff via completely FFA loot distribution while a 43 Paladin won the Red Dragon Scale. No, the pally wouldn't trade the scale for the staff LOL
Start thinking outside the square...
Edited, Thu May 16 19:16:08 2002
3 posts
Sure has been awhile since I have had an opportunity to check out the kind of posts people still make on this thread.
After seeing the responses, I wish I had never brought up the subject. Think to yourselves for a seconds, why are people so touchy about the subject of NBG? Is it because it strikes a nerve too close to home? I am NOT going to generalize everyone who reads this post, but if you are so inclined to defend this concept, stop and think for a moment. Are you really defending the validity of the system, or are you just trying to make right something you made a mistake on in the past?
People are absolutely correct, friends do stick together and help each other out in times of needs. I have my regular farming group on my server that go camp for equipment on a daily basis. If any of you hunted in Umbral Plains, you will come to realize that there really isnt anything of value for a 60 shaman that a single farming group can obtain. You got nice weapons off the two named mobs in the tunnels (for the melees), as well as nice bracelets, but what can a shaman use? If you find something, please let me know. And if you are able to farm these lvl 60 named with a single group, you will also know that this cannot be done with the assistance of a shaman. Having said that, anyone here reading this thread, who is willing to go there and help out your friends day in and day out until they obtain that rare Shadow Heart or Longsword of Freedom. Before you answer with, "I am a nice guy, I will help out my friends to the end," keep this in mind, alot of people do not have an unlimited amount of time to play this "game" like some people out there, real life does take precedent, so when I am playing this "game" I would like for it to mean something. Then there are those people out there who will contend that, "helping others is its own reward." You will get no argument from me on that matter, but how much help are you really willing to exert if all your time is for not. I will sit here and congratulate those you out there that can get a group of friends together at the drop of a hat to help you with anything you need. But honestly folks, how many friends like do you really think you have? (of course, aside from real life friends that play together)
Don't take this too hard folks, it is after all just a game. Sorry if these posts offended some people, but some people make statements I am positive cannot be supported. You can claim all sorts of grandiose righteous acts of valor you want, but when it comes down to crunch time, who truly doesnt look out for themselves first.
After seeing the responses, I wish I had never brought up the subject. Think to yourselves for a seconds, why are people so touchy about the subject of NBG? Is it because it strikes a nerve too close to home? I am NOT going to generalize everyone who reads this post, but if you are so inclined to defend this concept, stop and think for a moment. Are you really defending the validity of the system, or are you just trying to make right something you made a mistake on in the past?
People are absolutely correct, friends do stick together and help each other out in times of needs. I have my regular farming group on my server that go camp for equipment on a daily basis. If any of you hunted in Umbral Plains, you will come to realize that there really isnt anything of value for a 60 shaman that a single farming group can obtain. You got nice weapons off the two named mobs in the tunnels (for the melees), as well as nice bracelets, but what can a shaman use? If you find something, please let me know. And if you are able to farm these lvl 60 named with a single group, you will also know that this cannot be done with the assistance of a shaman. Having said that, anyone here reading this thread, who is willing to go there and help out your friends day in and day out until they obtain that rare Shadow Heart or Longsword of Freedom. Before you answer with, "I am a nice guy, I will help out my friends to the end," keep this in mind, alot of people do not have an unlimited amount of time to play this "game" like some people out there, real life does take precedent, so when I am playing this "game" I would like for it to mean something. Then there are those people out there who will contend that, "helping others is its own reward." You will get no argument from me on that matter, but how much help are you really willing to exert if all your time is for not. I will sit here and congratulate those you out there that can get a group of friends together at the drop of a hat to help you with anything you need. But honestly folks, how many friends like do you really think you have? (of course, aside from real life friends that play together)
Don't take this too hard folks, it is after all just a game. Sorry if these posts offended some people, but some people make statements I am positive cannot be supported. You can claim all sorts of grandiose righteous acts of valor you want, but when it comes down to crunch time, who truly doesnt look out for themselves first.
26 posts
Yo the game is designed to impregnate your mind with such a virus.
Sometimes i also use my time for selfish ways like you.
But other times i play for the sake of having interaction that has a value you cant put an XP on or a price on, a good feeling from helping a friend or bro do something even if we dont get the drop and it gets crazy and fun and those narrow escapes or close calls or barely surviving a ton of greens or something is the best fun of the game,
and ultimatly no matter how high you get there is the same challenge and ubers above and twinks below so just kick back and give all your cool stuff away and realize its the spaces in between the xp and the pp where the REAL value of the game is. and sometimes thats the best kind of EQ.
and yea my guild will come and help when i need them and i have non RL friends too that will and do.
and your time is always for nothing in this game unless your selling pp and stuff on the internet in which case it is work not play, and i just hope your on another server if thats the case.
Sometimes i also use my time for selfish ways like you.
But other times i play for the sake of having interaction that has a value you cant put an XP on or a price on, a good feeling from helping a friend or bro do something even if we dont get the drop and it gets crazy and fun and those narrow escapes or close calls or barely surviving a ton of greens or something is the best fun of the game,
and ultimatly no matter how high you get there is the same challenge and ubers above and twinks below so just kick back and give all your cool stuff away and realize its the spaces in between the xp and the pp where the REAL value of the game is. and sometimes thats the best kind of EQ.
and yea my guild will come and help when i need them and i have non RL friends too that will and do.
and your time is always for nothing in this game unless your selling pp and stuff on the internet in which case it is work not play, and i just hope your on another server if thats the case.
Simple. Defending the validity of the system.
It's called Honour.
It's called Humility.
And I will help (as will my friends) almost anyone who asks for it. This does not mean we give hand-outs. It means we give a hand UP.
Yes, it is just a game. But the behaviour of people in this game is no different to their behavious in real life...and often worse because in game, they have a toon to hide behind.
Yes, I am the same, when I play I like it to mean something too. And as for time constraints? I live on the opposite side of the world to the US, therefore play in the off-off-off peak hours. Yeah, I have major time constraints and it hasn't changed a thing about my beliefs.
Honour.
Peace.
It's called Honour.
It's called Humility.
And I will help (as will my friends) almost anyone who asks for it. This does not mean we give hand-outs. It means we give a hand UP.
Yes, it is just a game. But the behaviour of people in this game is no different to their behavious in real life...and often worse because in game, they have a toon to hide behind.
Yes, I am the same, when I play I like it to mean something too. And as for time constraints? I live on the opposite side of the world to the US, therefore play in the off-off-off peak hours. Yeah, I have major time constraints and it hasn't changed a thing about my beliefs.
Honour.
Peace.
9 posts
considering all the ... discussion we've had on here... i'd say that verant got the name of this item just about right
30 posts
ROFLMAO that is so true
20 posts
OMG This is one of the best posts I've ever seen.
26 posts
GOOB
2 posts
I just won one of these this mornng off of a naggy raid on Druzzil ro server!!! I could not be any happier!!!! Awesome haste!!
Kendaan Maximus
Warrior of the 51st season
Shadow Congress
Kendaan Maximus
Warrior of the 51st season
Shadow Congress
CoF is 36% haste
38 posts
so, if I were to do a naggy raid open rolls on everything buy CoF you think I gonna have any problem at all? I a rogue so I could care less about pally book or red dragon scale, but CoF would be godly for me... even after I get my epic for it's dex/agi/resist
Hi all an average shaman here to give an unneeded opinion on this NBG deal. Hey Im a shaman and I want a CoF. I solo 1/4 of the time I'm playing and sometimes it makes more sense to meele something to death then dot it again and waste mana. I also P-lvl people and from time to time I have to meele to save peoples lives (sometimes my own). During these times I might not have haste cast on myself and if I do, good this will stack with the spell. So by all means I "need" it too.
Besides everyone seems to post on the CoF/RBB thread all the time too, more fun to **** people off or give some helpful advice.
Guild raids on Naga or Vox are way different then the weekly pickup raid. You can not compare the too because they are two very different aspects of the game. By all means NBG away. You work with everyone to obtain items for everyone. This week its the CoF next week its the (insert caster item here). If you have been there a long time and it doesnt work that way get a new guild.
As for the weekly pick up raid NBG doesnt really apply. The CoF is the best drop Naga has and is worth 5x more then anything else that is dropped. So saying that why should anyone be excluded from looting this. If other items droped were comparable to this then you might get away with excluding classes, but thats not the case.
In my opinion ONLY people that have a worth while haste trade item should be able to roll anyways. You give up your haste item to be rolled on if you win the roll for the cloak. Then people can roll on the traded in haste item to. Now this includes casters too. You want to roll you have a fbss or something to trade in. (I have one now)
I've been excluded from rolling on this great cloak more then once and guess what it was for sale 20min later. Doh took it up the tail pipe on that one.
By the way "needs" are something that you can't live with out. You "need" food, you "need" water, you "need" air: everything else is a want or desire. NGB is misinterpreted term that makes either end an extreem. One side your only getting something because you "need" for the greater good of the EQ multiverse, but in fact you dont need it you want it. On the other side the "greedy" people dont need the money they will get for selling the item, they want it. (shame on you for wanting something better, but isnt that what the other guy is doing too?)But the word greed is so strong and has such a negative aura.
Break it down you have 2 different people wanting the same item to use it in different ways. And hey whoever buys the CoF will be aiding the EQ multiverse too.
Wow I really WANT one.
9 dex help hit a few more times in meele and get those proc's going.
10 ac and 9 agi nice Ill get hit less.
50 hp can't complain here always need more hp.
15 save vrs fire is nice to fight against fire beasties, kinda limited though with only one resist.
Haste is better then my FBSS can't complain there stacked with my spell I might be able to do 50% 60% what a warrior my lvl could do.
Nice resale or trade up value, would trade this for some of the better no drop belts/cloaks that have haste, Wis, and better resists on them.
sincerely your average shaman.
Now you may flame me: for any spelling, info errors, or if you just dont like kats and frogs.
Edited, Tue Apr 9 12:38:48 2002
Besides everyone seems to post on the CoF/RBB thread all the time too, more fun to **** people off or give some helpful advice.
Guild raids on Naga or Vox are way different then the weekly pickup raid. You can not compare the too because they are two very different aspects of the game. By all means NBG away. You work with everyone to obtain items for everyone. This week its the CoF next week its the (insert caster item here). If you have been there a long time and it doesnt work that way get a new guild.
As for the weekly pick up raid NBG doesnt really apply. The CoF is the best drop Naga has and is worth 5x more then anything else that is dropped. So saying that why should anyone be excluded from looting this. If other items droped were comparable to this then you might get away with excluding classes, but thats not the case.
In my opinion ONLY people that have a worth while haste trade item should be able to roll anyways. You give up your haste item to be rolled on if you win the roll for the cloak. Then people can roll on the traded in haste item to. Now this includes casters too. You want to roll you have a fbss or something to trade in. (I have one now)
I've been excluded from rolling on this great cloak more then once and guess what it was for sale 20min later. Doh took it up the tail pipe on that one.
By the way "needs" are something that you can't live with out. You "need" food, you "need" water, you "need" air: everything else is a want or desire. NGB is misinterpreted term that makes either end an extreem. One side your only getting something because you "need" for the greater good of the EQ multiverse, but in fact you dont need it you want it. On the other side the "greedy" people dont need the money they will get for selling the item, they want it. (shame on you for wanting something better, but isnt that what the other guy is doing too?)But the word greed is so strong and has such a negative aura.
Break it down you have 2 different people wanting the same item to use it in different ways. And hey whoever buys the CoF will be aiding the EQ multiverse too.
Wow I really WANT one.
9 dex help hit a few more times in meele and get those proc's going.
10 ac and 9 agi nice Ill get hit less.
50 hp can't complain here always need more hp.
15 save vrs fire is nice to fight against fire beasties, kinda limited though with only one resist.
Haste is better then my FBSS can't complain there stacked with my spell I might be able to do 50% 60% what a warrior my lvl could do.
Nice resale or trade up value, would trade this for some of the better no drop belts/cloaks that have haste, Wis, and better resists on them.
sincerely your average shaman.
Now you may flame me: for any spelling, info errors, or if you just dont like kats and frogs.
Edited, Tue Apr 9 12:38:48 2002
8 posts
Wow, what a stunningly well written post. It's too bad the poster had no decent arguments to present to back up this pretty language.
Lemme put it to you the easy way: There are cloaks this good or better for your class that don't have haste. Your cute little list of how various stats are useful to you is pointless - They can be gotten elsewhere relatively easily, the high haste % is *rare*.
My favorite part of the post has to be where you attempt to undermind the concept of NBG by attacking it's symantecs instead of its intent. Well done.
Bottom line: If you honestly don't think haste is a need for melee's, I suggest you attempt Nagafen/Serv/whatever again with all you melee's at base speed. Good luck getting your cloak, though I know you never will without buying, ninja'ing, or creating a melee.
Lemme put it to you the easy way: There are cloaks this good or better for your class that don't have haste. Your cute little list of how various stats are useful to you is pointless - They can be gotten elsewhere relatively easily, the high haste % is *rare*.
My favorite part of the post has to be where you attempt to undermind the concept of NBG by attacking it's symantecs instead of its intent. Well done.
Bottom line: If you honestly don't think haste is a need for melee's, I suggest you attempt Nagafen/Serv/whatever again with all you melee's at base speed. Good luck getting your cloak, though I know you never will without buying, ninja'ing, or creating a melee.
10 posts
This shaman had a very nice argument and you are stupid mr amaranth. you say there are better cloaks for shaman, well no duh. but hey, melees can get better haste themselves by partnering with a shaman or enchanter so i guess by your thinking they don't need this cloak either. What a stupid way to think.
5 posts
What the hell? Everyone that reads this thread will be more ignorant cause of you all.
First, Shaman, PUT DOWN THE PEACE PIPE! You've had enough.
Okay, the great thing about a great haste item, is, one, it makes you that much faster (No need to cause a digression thread on how haste works), two, it stacks with caster haste.
Sure, shaman, this would be great for soloing and doing whatever you do when you are alone. But, shaman, you won't be impressing anyone if you had this item and hasted yourself to melee this kind of mob. Your a SHAMAN! Maybe the best melee class out of the pure casters, I don't know, but you are still a caster class.
All to hell with it. I can't even begin.
CoF. 36 percent haste. Yes its great, yes its tradable. No, I'd never help someone take this guy down if a caster was allowed to roll on it. No I wouldn't use other items to bribe the raid group to let me roll on it. Yes, if you had this item you'd still want shaman or chanter haste if you could get it. No I doubt I'll ever be in a raid against Naggy where all the melee had an equivalent haste item or better. Bah. This is too nuts. Forget it.
First, Shaman, PUT DOWN THE PEACE PIPE! You've had enough.
Okay, the great thing about a great haste item, is, one, it makes you that much faster (No need to cause a digression thread on how haste works), two, it stacks with caster haste.
Sure, shaman, this would be great for soloing and doing whatever you do when you are alone. But, shaman, you won't be impressing anyone if you had this item and hasted yourself to melee this kind of mob. Your a SHAMAN! Maybe the best melee class out of the pure casters, I don't know, but you are still a caster class.
All to hell with it. I can't even begin.
CoF. 36 percent haste. Yes its great, yes its tradable. No, I'd never help someone take this guy down if a caster was allowed to roll on it. No I wouldn't use other items to bribe the raid group to let me roll on it. Yes, if you had this item you'd still want shaman or chanter haste if you could get it. No I doubt I'll ever be in a raid against Naggy where all the melee had an equivalent haste item or better. Bah. This is too nuts. Forget it.
Scholar
22 posts
Hmm, just an observation Phaelyn, but you state, 'I'd never help take this guy down if a caster was allowed to roll on it'. Sounds as if there is an attempt to evenly distribute loot, i.e. you are not given an unfair advantage, you will not participate. Sounds greedy to me. Just an observation, don't take it personally. ;-) I kinda think the Shaman makes some good points, if you want to argue need, well he claims he has a need for it, why would you want to deny him heheh. It points out the arbitrary nature of NBG, and how it is so unfair. Anyway, I've helped to take down Naggy a couple times, and loot went to others. In fact last raid I was the only wizard there, (wonder why), and hit Naggy for 3 Ice Comets with one crit at 1640, for total about 4k damage. Only thing I got to roll on was the Prayers LOL. I got a 33% chance to aquire an item worth maybe 1K on a good day, as 3 people rolled on it. In other words, my loot share was worth about 300pp. That's pretty funny to me, as the expensive stuff I was not allowed to roll on was obtained by people of other classes, such that those people got a much higher benefit for the same effort. So when NBGers claim I am greedy for wanting the same share as anyone else, how do they justify taking a much much higher share of loot, and calling that 'need'? I need stuff too! My gear stinks!! I wonder why!! Maybe cause I don't get a loot when I go on Naggy raids!! LOL.
Anyhow, I have played this game for awhile, and have read all the arguments about NBG etc, and I still just don't understand it. Seems like when a pickup group decides to share the effort to take down a mob, and believe me a dragon raid is an effort, as some of them I've been on have been 8 hour ordeals, then it seems only fair to distribute the gains evenly among all the participants. Of course there are details, as giving the leader a bonus for the extra effort, especially CRs if they have to be paid for, compensating clerics for dots, etc. Of course that makes it more fair. I know I will get flamed like a dog, but why is this such a concept. The only greed I see is the fact that people make arbitrary rules to allow themselves to receive a higher benefit due solely to the class they play. What is that all about? Doesn't make any sense.
The only logical way to do it, and I hate to throw logic into the mix, is this. When no drop items drop, only classes listed on the item can roll, and they can roll on each no drop item that drops that they can use. Of course it makes no sense for a no drop item to go to anyone else, as it is worthless to them. When any other item drops, they will be rolled on with every person getting an equal chance to obtain the item. With each person getting a roll for each item, even though they may have won a previous item. Why is this so difficult. Nothing is greedy about it, every person gets equal share of loot. The only thing greedy is convoluted rules allowing certain classes to get taken to the cleaners when a mob doesn't commonly drop anything that they can roll for. As for those who claim, I'm not in it for the loot, I'm only here to help others, blah blah, well that is fine, I like your attitude, but wait, why are you posting on this topic!!! You supposedly don't care about the loot!! So you don't have to roll unless you want to, if you want to give your roll to someone else, that seems fair. So if you think the tank should get the cloak of flames, give your roll to the MA. The fact is, there is a price listed above on this item, as on every item, there is a popular site at eqprices.com that lists prices on items, there is a market and trade channel in game which are very active, virtually every single person I see on dragon raids participates in the market channels, there is auction chat in every zone, as items were meant to be bought and sold and traded. That's the nature of the game.
So, when I see NGB, I immediately have to think, some person is trying to guilt trip the rest of the players into giving himself an uneven split. I think the term should be changed to Perceived Need Justifies Greed. PNJG, heheh.
Please flame because the truth is so obvious, it makes me crack up to read the justifications for NBG. Oh, and one more thing. Yes, I know I agree to the loot rules before I go on raids, and yes, so I never complain in game, as I've agreed to them. But that doesn't make it right in my mind. There's only 2 dragons I can fight at my level, so I have to bend over and take it, even though its not right. I want the experience of killing dragons just like the next guy, but likewise I also want the experience of looting them too!!
OK, if you see me in game, please ask for a TL, I give them for free, always have. I know I could charge people, and in fact, I may write down all these NBGer's names, and start charging them 50pp a gate, cause they're the ones wearing the 60K cloaks, while I got a 200pp advisors robe. lol. :)
P.S. (I really like my robe)
Zaendol Tohvars
Wizard of the 50th Season
Drinal
Anyhow, I have played this game for awhile, and have read all the arguments about NBG etc, and I still just don't understand it. Seems like when a pickup group decides to share the effort to take down a mob, and believe me a dragon raid is an effort, as some of them I've been on have been 8 hour ordeals, then it seems only fair to distribute the gains evenly among all the participants. Of course there are details, as giving the leader a bonus for the extra effort, especially CRs if they have to be paid for, compensating clerics for dots, etc. Of course that makes it more fair. I know I will get flamed like a dog, but why is this such a concept. The only greed I see is the fact that people make arbitrary rules to allow themselves to receive a higher benefit due solely to the class they play. What is that all about? Doesn't make any sense.
The only logical way to do it, and I hate to throw logic into the mix, is this. When no drop items drop, only classes listed on the item can roll, and they can roll on each no drop item that drops that they can use. Of course it makes no sense for a no drop item to go to anyone else, as it is worthless to them. When any other item drops, they will be rolled on with every person getting an equal chance to obtain the item. With each person getting a roll for each item, even though they may have won a previous item. Why is this so difficult. Nothing is greedy about it, every person gets equal share of loot. The only thing greedy is convoluted rules allowing certain classes to get taken to the cleaners when a mob doesn't commonly drop anything that they can roll for. As for those who claim, I'm not in it for the loot, I'm only here to help others, blah blah, well that is fine, I like your attitude, but wait, why are you posting on this topic!!! You supposedly don't care about the loot!! So you don't have to roll unless you want to, if you want to give your roll to someone else, that seems fair. So if you think the tank should get the cloak of flames, give your roll to the MA. The fact is, there is a price listed above on this item, as on every item, there is a popular site at eqprices.com that lists prices on items, there is a market and trade channel in game which are very active, virtually every single person I see on dragon raids participates in the market channels, there is auction chat in every zone, as items were meant to be bought and sold and traded. That's the nature of the game.
So, when I see NGB, I immediately have to think, some person is trying to guilt trip the rest of the players into giving himself an uneven split. I think the term should be changed to Perceived Need Justifies Greed. PNJG, heheh.
Please flame because the truth is so obvious, it makes me crack up to read the justifications for NBG. Oh, and one more thing. Yes, I know I agree to the loot rules before I go on raids, and yes, so I never complain in game, as I've agreed to them. But that doesn't make it right in my mind. There's only 2 dragons I can fight at my level, so I have to bend over and take it, even though its not right. I want the experience of killing dragons just like the next guy, but likewise I also want the experience of looting them too!!
OK, if you see me in game, please ask for a TL, I give them for free, always have. I know I could charge people, and in fact, I may write down all these NBGer's names, and start charging them 50pp a gate, cause they're the ones wearing the 60K cloaks, while I got a 200pp advisors robe. lol. :)
P.S. (I really like my robe)
Zaendol Tohvars
Wizard of the 50th Season
Drinal
/agree Amaranth
I don't care what anyone says, ALL/ALL items should not be rolled on by all classes. I'm a wizard: what the hell am I going to do with 36% haste? I don't even own a weapon. True, shammies can meelee better than other casters, but they shouldn't really be meeleeing except in dire emergencies anyway, in which case this item would do you a world of good if it were on your tank instead of you.
On this item, the other stats are just icing on the cake. If this had ONLY the haste, it would still sell for almost as much as it does now, would be just as useful, and nobody in their right mind would ever give it to anyone but a tank.
Basically, Mr Shammy, go sow people or do whatever it is you do to make money and buy one yourself, but please don't deprive a tank of this excellent item just because it might help you when you're PL'ing someone.
I don't care what anyone says, ALL/ALL items should not be rolled on by all classes. I'm a wizard: what the hell am I going to do with 36% haste? I don't even own a weapon. True, shammies can meelee better than other casters, but they shouldn't really be meeleeing except in dire emergencies anyway, in which case this item would do you a world of good if it were on your tank instead of you.
On this item, the other stats are just icing on the cake. If this had ONLY the haste, it would still sell for almost as much as it does now, would be just as useful, and nobody in their right mind would ever give it to anyone but a tank.
Basically, Mr Shammy, go sow people or do whatever it is you do to make money and buy one yourself, but please don't deprive a tank of this excellent item just because it might help you when you're PL'ing someone.
Scholar
22 posts
So you want the shammy to go buy one? So how is he going to buy one? All the cloaks go to people who 'need' them, therefore they will never be sold. LOL!! Saw 2 of them on market chat this weekend. Must be those 'needy' melee types, couldn't pay the rent, had to sell their CoF to pay the light bill...
Crazy. Equal benefit for equal effort on pick-up raids. Its the only fair way.
Zaendol Tohvars
Drinal
Crazy. Equal benefit for equal effort on pick-up raids. Its the only fair way.
Zaendol Tohvars
Drinal
It seems this is a hotly debated issue, though as of yet I've not come into contact with the controversy.
Only in reference to the individual who posted before me, as I will refrain from the debate for the time being, there are several cases when (despite a NBG ruling on the matter) this item could be up for sale.
There is a chance that there is no one present at the raid who "truely" needs this item (i.e. the tanks either already have one, have better, choose not to want it, etc). This "should" cause a roll on the matter (but that is up to the raid leaders and coordinators) and then the item will most likely be put on the market.
Another instance will occur when the person who was able to get the item through NBG acquires a better item (or even one they like more) and decides to put this one on the market.
Even if every raid is NBG, these types of items will still find their way to the market.
As a caster, I'll say that I have little use for this item and will repect any meleer's claim to it. I simply expect the same respect in return (though there are many out there who I should not expect this from).
Concerning equal benefits for equal effort, working for 8 hours and gaining next to nothing (material-wise) does seem to be a bit of a waste, however the expierence and knowledge gained from such endeavors can be more valueable than any money you happen to walk away with.
As far as money goes...40-70kpp would be very nice for items and other stuff I would like, but there is no way I would take the rights to such an item from someone who has a use for it (other than selling).
I would hope that my personal attitude (and I'm sure there are many others who share it, but who are just not vocal) would allow me to earn the respect of my fellow raiders. Interpersonal relationships are just as important to this game as "phat lewtz", if not more. After all, how is anyone going to get this type of stuff, if everyone on their server hates them :).
Long-winded and unfocused as I may seem, *I* at least understand my ramblings.
--Cafeen
--Tier'Dal Enchanter
--Officer of the Azure Storm
--Luclin Server
Only in reference to the individual who posted before me, as I will refrain from the debate for the time being, there are several cases when (despite a NBG ruling on the matter) this item could be up for sale.
There is a chance that there is no one present at the raid who "truely" needs this item (i.e. the tanks either already have one, have better, choose not to want it, etc). This "should" cause a roll on the matter (but that is up to the raid leaders and coordinators) and then the item will most likely be put on the market.
Another instance will occur when the person who was able to get the item through NBG acquires a better item (or even one they like more) and decides to put this one on the market.
Even if every raid is NBG, these types of items will still find their way to the market.
As a caster, I'll say that I have little use for this item and will repect any meleer's claim to it. I simply expect the same respect in return (though there are many out there who I should not expect this from).
Concerning equal benefits for equal effort, working for 8 hours and gaining next to nothing (material-wise) does seem to be a bit of a waste, however the expierence and knowledge gained from such endeavors can be more valueable than any money you happen to walk away with.
As far as money goes...40-70kpp would be very nice for items and other stuff I would like, but there is no way I would take the rights to such an item from someone who has a use for it (other than selling).
I would hope that my personal attitude (and I'm sure there are many others who share it, but who are just not vocal) would allow me to earn the respect of my fellow raiders. Interpersonal relationships are just as important to this game as "phat lewtz", if not more. After all, how is anyone going to get this type of stuff, if everyone on their server hates them :).
Long-winded and unfocused as I may seem, *I* at least understand my ramblings.
--Cafeen
--Tier'Dal Enchanter
--Officer of the Azure Storm
--Luclin Server
5 posts
if you reserve the cof not many melles are gonna be there just like resreving the scale or book it lessens the amout who would come for that chance. btw this item is a cloak of flames back slot 50 -70 k on tt. people usually dont like to risk there time for nothing or just so you can get a head either caster or melle (exception being your friends and guildies) try holding a naggy raid with thunter sacthcle book scale and cof reserved and see how many come and anouce it when trying to get people.
sorry for poor spelling its been a long night.
sorry for poor spelling its been a long night.
8 posts
I don't mean to beat a dead horse or anything, but I'd like to just get my little opinion in on the post on how a caster should be able to roll on the Cloak of Flames solely for the purpose of them twinking out their ranger.
Now first off, it's understandable that someone would want to use their higher level character get nice equipment for their lower level characters. I mean, it's just natural that you want them to be the best. I've already seen posts about the "Need Before Greed" rule and all, and I have mixed opinions on that.
However, I'd have to disagree with the caster. I believe you should not be allowed to roll unless you could trulely use this equipment. Everquest is about teamwork and working together. If you go gung ho solo, you won't get much done no matter how "uber" you think you are. It's like a squad in Vietnam. Certain people have certain roles. Tanks obviously tank, wizzies nuke, etc etc. The Cloak of Flames has stats geared towards a melee character, which is who you want it for. However, you're trying to give him a piece of equipment he has no business of having yet. And yes, I'm hypocritical on that, but think about it. You've got your radio man in your squad during a war, and you're not going to send him into the crossfire because you need the radio to relay your point and what not. Same reason why you don't send the wizards to Lord Nagafen to try and melee him. They have their respective roles.
But if you think about it, let's say you went on a raid where a great caster item dropped that you wanted for yourself as the main. Now let's say a melee there wants it for their lv2 caster. Would you honestly allow the melee to roll without regarding any ill will towards them? Highly doubtful. Because even if it was another caster, it was competition ;P
Either way though, I say if someone already has the item, don't let them roll on it. Let someone more needy get it.
Now first off, it's understandable that someone would want to use their higher level character get nice equipment for their lower level characters. I mean, it's just natural that you want them to be the best. I've already seen posts about the "Need Before Greed" rule and all, and I have mixed opinions on that.
However, I'd have to disagree with the caster. I believe you should not be allowed to roll unless you could trulely use this equipment. Everquest is about teamwork and working together. If you go gung ho solo, you won't get much done no matter how "uber" you think you are. It's like a squad in Vietnam. Certain people have certain roles. Tanks obviously tank, wizzies nuke, etc etc. The Cloak of Flames has stats geared towards a melee character, which is who you want it for. However, you're trying to give him a piece of equipment he has no business of having yet. And yes, I'm hypocritical on that, but think about it. You've got your radio man in your squad during a war, and you're not going to send him into the crossfire because you need the radio to relay your point and what not. Same reason why you don't send the wizards to Lord Nagafen to try and melee him. They have their respective roles.
But if you think about it, let's say you went on a raid where a great caster item dropped that you wanted for yourself as the main. Now let's say a melee there wants it for their lv2 caster. Would you honestly allow the melee to roll without regarding any ill will towards them? Highly doubtful. Because even if it was another caster, it was competition ;P
Either way though, I say if someone already has the item, don't let them roll on it. Let someone more needy get it.
3 posts
I agree, that if there is someone in the the group that REALLY NEEDS the item, then they should get it. But to say that casters should not be able to roll on an item, just because that particular character can't use it, is downright selfish. Who is to say that any one of the melees that roll on it will not do the exact same thing a caster will (sell it and buy something they need, or twink an alt). That is why in any of my groups, EVERYONE rolls on a good drop, unless there is someone who actually needs it.
Sorry, would like to elaborate a little more, but it's time to go home)
Mykken Mystwolf 42 Druid <Aimless Wanderes>
Kraymerr 20 Rogue
Tanlaor 14 Shammy <Aimless Wanderers>
Fumen 13 Mage
Camalan 15 Monk <Nobles of Justice>
Veltass 7 SK <Aimless Wanderers>
Sorry, would like to elaborate a little more, but it's time to go home)
Mykken Mystwolf 42 Druid <Aimless Wanderes>
Kraymerr 20 Rogue
Tanlaor 14 Shammy <Aimless Wanderers>
Fumen 13 Mage
Camalan 15 Monk <Nobles of Justice>
Veltass 7 SK <Aimless Wanderers>
i been going around looking for some answers to my question hopefully ill find them here i looked at almost all the haste items and it seems to me that none would be able to get thru a quest is there any quest for a haste items out there that i migth of skiped over? and if so what is the haste % on it i dont want to waste my time questing a 10% haste item for my 55 warrior
thanks for you help in advance
thanks for you help in advance
5 posts
I would be truly disappointed if a caster won this over ANY melee who could use it.
I have my honor, and will NOT roll on items that I don't need if there is ANYONE in the group that DOES need it.
"NEEDing" it to sell for your OWN equip is the dishonorable way of ******** your friends or fellow raiders.
It is my belief that the EQ economy really destroys some of the fun of EQ... and I wish they made some of these high end items NO DROP.
Edited, Fri Mar 22 14:59:55 2002
I have my honor, and will NOT roll on items that I don't need if there is ANYONE in the group that DOES need it.
"NEEDing" it to sell for your OWN equip is the dishonorable way of ******** your friends or fellow raiders.
It is my belief that the EQ economy really destroys some of the fun of EQ... and I wish they made some of these high end items NO DROP.
Edited, Fri Mar 22 14:59:55 2002
They do make some of the high end items no drop. this just isn't one of them. Most of the planes armor is no drop, the good stuff dropping in the revamped Cazic thule seems to be mostly no drop, etc....
It's nice that some of these items are NOT no drop. Admittedly, this particular item would be fought over a lot less, if it were no drop, but I'm glad there are some decent high end armors that are droppable (donals, singing steel, cobalt...).
It's nice that some of these items are NOT no drop. Admittedly, this particular item would be fought over a lot less, if it were no drop, but I'm glad there are some decent high end armors that are droppable (donals, singing steel, cobalt...).
Tanks like to say that they should only roll on this item. There is only one reason that I come here and that is to loot this bugger to pl my chanter and use it on a ranger later. Some say I should be in it for the fun, nope I'm in it for the belt, 4 hours of preperation for this raid is not fun, however 4 hours of sitting in a dungeon gaining exp is. NBG is hypacritical because you don't need these items, you want them.
If you are excluding people because of their class, you are not only greedy, you are a person that should be relieved of your duty as a raid leader.
The only way a person should be allowed to use the term NBG is if the whole raid is part of the same guild. I still think the term is hypacritical, but I mean that it goes to the person in guild that most benifits in attack.
Tanks are so confident in saying, "I would never roll on a caster/preist item", because this is not a caster item. Its an item worth 40k I belive, and most would pay to have it because the people that have that kind of pp are the ones that can't fight due to level limit.
Caster/preist classes should not be excluded in roll on this item as you can't fight this guy without them. I for one am not gonna take part in Naggy raids till someone does say casters can roll.
I don't need this belt, I want it. That goes for any sane person that plays this game, including me
If you are excluding people because of their class, you are not only greedy, you are a person that should be relieved of your duty as a raid leader.
The only way a person should be allowed to use the term NBG is if the whole raid is part of the same guild. I still think the term is hypacritical, but I mean that it goes to the person in guild that most benifits in attack.
Tanks are so confident in saying, "I would never roll on a caster/preist item", because this is not a caster item. Its an item worth 40k I belive, and most would pay to have it because the people that have that kind of pp are the ones that can't fight due to level limit.
Caster/preist classes should not be excluded in roll on this item as you can't fight this guy without them. I for one am not gonna take part in Naggy raids till someone does say casters can roll.
I don't need this belt, I want it. That goes for any sane person that plays this game, including me
4 posts
i read these posts and wonder.. i think the one that was missed in hitting the nail on the head was the one where the person said that the guy who got it threw nbg role ended up putting it up for sale immediatly... lemme tell ya a story...
friend and guildy gets invited on a raid where cobalt armor drops.. now he is a caster and so by nbg he is not allowed to role for the item.. but you see he had been asked by me within the guild to go there and get into a group to get just such an item... to help me... so i could in turn help him... and guess what... the warrior got it nbg... no one roled.. he just was told loot it... when he did he said ohh i have one already who wants to BUY it... was that need or was it greed.. my friend had a valid need for the item.. to GIVE to a warrior.... the person who won it had no NEED, just he greed to say he did... bye the bye... i never did get the item which happened to drop twice during that foray... and when the caster asked for it the second time.. he got told again NBG.. and the warrior got it...
does this make the Need Befor Greed credo work???
Umphar da Hammerhanded
42 trolly warrior
7th Hammer Feydarks Order of Peace
friend and guildy gets invited on a raid where cobalt armor drops.. now he is a caster and so by nbg he is not allowed to role for the item.. but you see he had been asked by me within the guild to go there and get into a group to get just such an item... to help me... so i could in turn help him... and guess what... the warrior got it nbg... no one roled.. he just was told loot it... when he did he said ohh i have one already who wants to BUY it... was that need or was it greed.. my friend had a valid need for the item.. to GIVE to a warrior.... the person who won it had no NEED, just he greed to say he did... bye the bye... i never did get the item which happened to drop twice during that foray... and when the caster asked for it the second time.. he got told again NBG.. and the warrior got it...
does this make the Need Befor Greed credo work???
Umphar da Hammerhanded
42 trolly warrior
7th Hammer Feydarks Order of Peace
I am a officer of my guild on the Zeb server. Now when we raid, we use the NBG (need before greed)motto. Like one time we went to ToFS(Tower of Frozen Shadows) and the Wizards Bowl dropped. A very nice item Worth 3k I believe. Now we had a necro, wizzard, 2 Shadow knights, and a bard. Now obviously this is an item everyone would want to sell. I mean who wouldn't want 3k? =) but we let the necro loot it. Which he still currently weilds. NBG is a good. thing I had no need for the item so I let my friend have it. Seem fair? it is. Without him and the others I wouldn't have made it to the 5th floor where it drops. And it now adds to his fire power as a necro. Think about it. EQ was made for teaming and grouping. Not every man/woman for themselves.
Just remember this the next time your on a raid and some shouts is there any Warrior/trolls or whatever out there that could use whatever. And you happen to be that class and are able to loot it and benefit to the raid. Putting the right items in the right classes hands can lead to better raids and everyone else getting the items they dream about.
Loladene
48 season
Human Shadowknight
Warrior Of Fate
Zeb Server
Just remember this the next time your on a raid and some shouts is there any Warrior/trolls or whatever out there that could use whatever. And you happen to be that class and are able to loot it and benefit to the raid. Putting the right items in the right classes hands can lead to better raids and everyone else getting the items they dream about.
Loladene
48 season
Human Shadowknight
Warrior Of Fate
Zeb Server
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 23 2002 at 11:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) bah i cant get over it im telling you rigth now im going to make my 10 year old son stop playing eq im scared some sick mind like you will get some stupid idea into my littel boys head lol you scary dude get some help
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 23 2002 at 11:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i need to flame this lol
bah this sucks first of all if you are a chanter why would you roll for this? to twink you alt when tere is other peeps out there that need it ?
you are wrong. you have no honor you are selfish
go ahead and flame me i dotn care i could care less know why ? cause if you roll for this you are greddy you haveno honor you should not be playing a game like eq that puts us to work in teams as a hole as one soul this, what you have posted is and excuse for you to twink your ranger
wow !!! or just to make more money cuase like a said you are greedy you have no honor.
you are wrong. you have no honor you are selfish
go ahead and flame me i dotn care i could care less know why ? cause if you roll for this you are greddy you haveno honor you should not be playing a game like eq that puts us to work in teams as a hole as one soul this, what you have posted is and excuse for you to twink your ranger
wow !!! or just to make more money cuase like a said you are greedy you have no honor.
30 posts
I personally believe that you should "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", if you want this item for your ranger why do you not play your ranger to a level where he could legitimately get the item? If you did that maybe you could appreciate the Wizard who did not roll against you or conversely the Wizard who did only so that they could be 20k richer. In a perfect world characters would only roll on items that were better then what they currently had, and then give up their older gear to those who need it, in a perfect world... To wrap it up, you should be able to roll on this item as it is ALL/ALL and technically you can use it, just don't expect people to forget it, I know I would roll against you every time giving the item to the highest roller that it would benefit if I won. NBG is like Communism, people are too selfish for either to work.
[52 Minstrel] Samini (Wood Elf)
[40 Warrior] Olauf (Troll)
[34 Necromancer] Pendrakke (Gnome)
[26 Cleric] Sameniel (High Elf)
- THOLUXE PAELLS -
[52 Minstrel] Samini (Wood Elf)
[40 Warrior] Olauf (Troll)
[34 Necromancer] Pendrakke (Gnome)
[26 Cleric] Sameniel (High Elf)
- THOLUXE PAELLS -
ha... i want it to... but i could USE IT! wtf you think naggy and vox drop stuff for each type of class? (hybrids int/wis casters and pure melees) now wtf would you think if i rolled on the 15 wis and int eyepatch...? youd ***** uncontrollably... NBG shouldnt be used unless the people stick to it EVERY raid... its like saying your not for nbg one raid cause you would be getting jipped (when nothing for you drops) and then next raid when somthin good does drop,you want nbg ....another way to keep this crap from happening is seniority... or defaulting gear to certain people (like leader defaulting an item/epic piece to him/her)
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 14 2002 at 12:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Caught me on a bad day, I responded to a few messages rudely and I have edited them to seem less vulgur
3 posts
i would just like to say i'm 46 warrior on BB and i for one happen to agree with the caster because of one simple thing, camps. how many times have you seen a melee camping the glowing black stone or selling a sarnak cerimonial dagger? if NBG was really true and followed we would really have to relinquish these camps as soon as a caster came along wanting to try for the item(because it would be put to better use for them) i myself have camped these items just to turn around and sell them and i'm sure plenty of you have too. Granted i'm not saying i won't go along with NBG i say it's up to who ever is leading the raid that i'm on, if they say nbg then it's nbg if not it's not and if you don't like it set up your own naggy raid and default the CoF to yourself.
camps are a totally different story mik... if your there solo... camping a spawn, its all yours... if your on a raid... it should be NBG (or NBG random) or seniority... if your xping and somthin drops no one needs its open for random... if spells drop... and the casters already have the spell its random... class specific... duhh (less they have it or better) then it would be random... tho this is just my opinion... all on the raid leader...
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 13 2002 at 1:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Point taken, I don't nesicarly agree with NBG but I guess I can't do nothin about it if its the raid leaders decision. I dislike the rules for casual raids, perhaps its time to look for a guild that asigns me stuff if I am lucky, at least this way it would seem more fun and less unfair.
36 posts
Well Hello Mr. Caster, you stated he could not be taken out w/o casters, well lets see you take a quad of 575 and see how long you last!
The effect on this item will help the tanks keep the mob off of your butt Mr. If you only want this to "twink" out an alt then you will find very few or no-one that will take you on a raid with them.
Use common sense you idiot!! Woohoo.. a caster with haste.. WoW!!!
Sparge Fyrestorm
52 Champion
Tholuxe Paells
"The Ascended"
The effect on this item will help the tanks keep the mob off of your butt Mr. If you only want this to "twink" out an alt then you will find very few or no-one that will take you on a raid with them.
Use common sense you idiot!! Woohoo.. a caster with haste.. WoW!!!
Sparge Fyrestorm
52 Champion
Tholuxe Paells
"The Ascended"
19 posts
i have a mage with haste, cause i have a tola robe :P and i can actually poke stuff with my walrus tooth too!
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 10 2002 at 5:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 49 other haste items out there that are listed on this site, use one of them. BTW I solod from one to 50 without pl, I don't need a tank. I do group now just cause I want in on normal loot drops, but I still don't require a melee because of my kiting abilities.
Nice thought - here's another one (not necessarily better). Find a decent guild who believes in NBG. Go on a Naggy raid with them. Don't kick up a fuss for not rolling on this item if it drops. Hang around with that guild - go on a raid for another nice item that you want - that is all/all but better for casters than melee - and be happy that the NBG works in your favour here.
btw (and this isn't a flame) do you define greed as allowing people to roll on this item that their main char will use - but you don't define wanting this item for a twink alt as greedy? just curious...
btw (and this isn't a flame) do you define greed as allowing people to roll on this item that their main char will use - but you don't define wanting this item for a twink alt as greedy? just curious...
you are greedy please band this guy out he dosnet deserve to be in this site ill pay for his membership for a hole year if you cancel it cause you are greedy here is a lvl 60 warrior that tried so hard to keep this mob of you in the raid and you going to rip it off them to gicve i9t to you twink ranger ? bah it is not greed if a warrior goes on a raid to get this item at least he worked his butt off to get to that lvl so he can go join other peeps in the hunt of such items]
it is greed when a person like you that dont have use for the item uses hi main to get stuff for his alt you are greedy and let me see you play a gnome? i think it fits you
it is greed when a person like you that dont have use for the item uses hi main to get stuff for his alt you are greedy and let me see you play a gnome? i think it fits you
1 post
that's cool if he wants to roll on it i mean sheesh i don't mind winning a roll on ubah azz caster items just so they won't have it and put on my twink, i mean come on why should a lvl 50+ have it when a lvl 1 can and put someone that needs it out of the pic? BTW just remember that melee's taunt that quad 150+ dmg off your azz
55th warrior
--Think first, before u move
55th warrior
--Think first, before u move
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 10 2002 at 5:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Edited, Sun Mar 10 17:55:30 2002
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 10 2002 at 5:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It will take a month to get from one to 50+, I'll quad 150+ damage then with my ranger.
hmm... well im not gonna make an aout burst about casters, I'm juss gonna say YOUR WRONG!
Warriors are so dependant on casters its really sickening. We have so little resources and means to travel that It really makes no sense to argue over an item like this.
I want u to consider this... 3 expansions to EQ I want u to tell me what did warriors get???? I mean, yah, all casters got new spells and monks got helluva lot of new items but once again warriors got didly. Every possible complaint made by a caster and hybrids pales in comparison with the struggle a warrior has to deal with...
If u think casters should roll on this item then we should be rolling on spells that drop... all of them.
I got a lot more to say but i cant due to space and time but if i gotta roll with u on this item just so u can have it for your twink then it is clear to me that u have never played an warrior from scratch... untwinked.
Warriors are so dependant on casters its really sickening. We have so little resources and means to travel that It really makes no sense to argue over an item like this.
I want u to consider this... 3 expansions to EQ I want u to tell me what did warriors get???? I mean, yah, all casters got new spells and monks got helluva lot of new items but once again warriors got didly. Every possible complaint made by a caster and hybrids pales in comparison with the struggle a warrior has to deal with...
If u think casters should roll on this item then we should be rolling on spells that drop... all of them.
I got a lot more to say but i cant due to space and time but if i gotta roll with u on this item just so u can have it for your twink then it is clear to me that u have never played an warrior from scratch... untwinked.
3 expantions and nothing for warriors eh. Lets first concider that you can't go past level 50 without any expantions. Imagine that a 50 level in 50 gear fighting in ToV or even sleepers. No the programers are not going to do that. There is plenty there for warriors you are just not looking cause its at your convienince. If I don't see it, it don't see me, good reasoning. I'll state this again there are 49 other haste items, 35 of which you need the expantions to get.
Edited, Thu Mar 14 12:11:32 2002
Edited, Thu Mar 14 12:11:32 2002
Scholar
25 posts
I totaly agree with Kandimann. its BS that a caster should roll for this. that would be the same as melee rolling on Velketor drops. Considering he almost only drop caster item i would like to see a caster raid try to kill him wothout a warrior.
NBG means if you are a castor you DONT need it. and I dont think twinks count, LMAO
NBG means if you are a castor you DONT need it. and I dont think twinks count, LMAO
If you want to roll on Velketor items by all means argue for your right, this is off topic here though.
Definition of NEED: A requirement of something in order to survive.
Example: food, water, clothes, shelter
I know the definition of need, as I have lacked what was needed thru most of my childhood.
NBG is a sad method of getting what you want. When you use NBG you are excluding people that helped get that item. With this I can twink a character that will get to 50+ faster or sell it to someone else to get Velketor loot, what I do really isn't any of your business.
Whats a caster to do to get this item, you people won't let us roll so we gotta buy it. NBG means if I want this item I gotta pay the insane price to get it
Edited, Thu Mar 14 12:13:37 2002
Definition of NEED: A requirement of something in order to survive.
Example: food, water, clothes, shelter
I know the definition of need, as I have lacked what was needed thru most of my childhood.
NBG is a sad method of getting what you want. When you use NBG you are excluding people that helped get that item. With this I can twink a character that will get to 50+ faster or sell it to someone else to get Velketor loot, what I do really isn't any of your business.
Whats a caster to do to get this item, you people won't let us roll so we gotta buy it. NBG means if I want this item I gotta pay the insane price to get it
Edited, Thu Mar 14 12:13:37 2002
you defined need, but I am thinking your definition of need in EQ terms is missing something. a Haste item is NEEDed by warriors in the high end game just to make them useful for groups/raids.
If you want this item, I think you have 3 options.
1) Buy it
2) Go on a pick-up Naggy raid where everything is being randomed
3) Lead a Naggy raid yourself and reserve this item when organising it
good luck :)
If you want this item, I think you have 3 options.
1) Buy it
2) Go on a pick-up Naggy raid where everything is being randomed
3) Lead a Naggy raid yourself and reserve this item when organising it
good luck :)
OMG I finally have it! I told myself if I ever created a melee character she HAD to have this item. Today, I just got one for my Rangerette. Truly worth having, makes me practically invincible at my level :)
Camyla
Wood Elf - Ranger
10th Season
Camyla
Wood Elf - Ranger
10th Season
95-110k on Emarr. Friend just bought one with 50k + Fungi... Very nice back piece..truly something most melee's will look forward to getting in the future.
Sigoniax Eve
80 Paladin
Erollisi Marr
*The beginning of the end or the end of the beginning..Choose your path*
80 Paladin
Erollisi Marr
*The beginning of the end or the end of the beginning..Choose your path*
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 13 2002 at 11:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this is quite the back item indeed...would work wonders with my Crystalline Short Sword and Lammy combo..im already swinging like nuts..get this cloak, and a bard or enchanter haste on my ***** and i'll be swinging..oh...pretty much non-stop. lvl 41 now, but working really hard to get 50 at least..gotta work on them resists. im thinking some Vel Blue diamond bracelets and maybe those platinum rose whatever rings, any suggestions on resist gear anyone?
16 posts
Azeil. While I admire you defending the ignorant, you need to get your information straight before you yell at someone and tell them they need to get THEIR info straight. Haste items do not stack. FBSS=permanent haste, CoF=permanent haste. They don't stack.
will the cloack stack with fbss and if no what is the better haste
i know that the cloack as a few better stats
i know that the cloack as a few better stats
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 01 2002 at 10:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OMG, Man, what are you, a moron? It has a few better stats, shyeah! FBSS is 21% haste, basically the lowest and crappiest haste item. CoF is about the best you can get, 36% haste, and no item haste stacks with another item haste. Good Sweet Lord in heaven, where have you been?
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 03 2002 at 4:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not only did he ask a simple question, but you are wrong. It DOES stack, because this is a triggered effect and counts as a buff/song. Engrage brain before opening mouth
38 posts
the guy asked a simple question, not for your ignorant A$$ to flame him. good god, some people have better things to do than study every frikkin item in this game. its called a real life btw, if you weren't sure.
Nuvian Ghostbear
57th level warrior
Realm of Ages
Fennin Ro server
Nuvian Ghostbear
57th level warrior
Realm of Ages
Fennin Ro server
i was in DL trying to get out of hell lvl 45 when i noticed a ranger friend whom i have never seen in about 7 months give an LFG shout. Me being the group leader, i invited him into the group. he was using a wurmmy and when we pulled a ravishing i noticed that he was hitting for nearly as fast as i was and i was wielding 2 lammies (not hasted). i asked to inspect him and there was a cloak of flames flat on his back. He didnt even know where it drops so i asked him where he obtained such an item (considering he was still wearing banded armor) and he told me that while running to CoM for a corpse run he dropped a fruit on the ground and since he was hungry he tried to pick it up again but instead he picked up a CoF which was adjacent to his fruit. it was most likely a EQ quitter who dropped it for other peeps or a person desperately wanting to do a fast item transfer. i couldnt be more happier for him :)
Multani<Holy Union of Norrath>
Quellious server
Multani<Holy Union of Norrath>
Quellious server
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jan 07 2002 at 2:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) IS THE FBSS HAST WITH THE HASTE OF THIS ITEM STACKABLE _
13 posts
No, only the highest haste item will have effect, but it will stack with haste spells from shammy and chanters, and i think those will stack with bard song but not sure.
only 2 bard songs will stack with chanter/shammy haste. And most bards won't use that since its about 5 and 15% haste. This was pre SOL, not sre if there are any new songs that stack.
lol what lv should a warrior be not to be "dead weight" ive noticed in eq every lil bit helps so the way i figure anyone who can resist his spells and put a decent hurtin on him isnt dead weight (meening the monk who kicked him for 80... not a decent hurtin on a dragon but sounds like he wasnt there to do more)and the fear issue i heard you can get around that by using bark potions so youre rooted and negates fear... of course if it wears off youre gonna be runnin round like a fool but its worth a shot so the fire resist is what ya need to work up froggy crown,new mage summoned thing that gives 1 ac and i think 35 to fire cold and magic... drawing a blank on more svf gear... wondering if i rooted myself and had enough svf at say 42 would i have a "decent chance" of staying alive (using fungi various pieces of good armor lammy css or wurmslayer)plz reply lol
You can be anywhere from 45-52 to be a tank on a Naggy raid. Anyone higher than 52 will get ported to the front of the zone by him if in his range. Just did a raid tonight on him and he dropped this but I lost the roll. :( Would of been nice to have. Tanks usually dont make it through the fight. The nukers finish him off after he's at 50% and any tanks left will help. If you're 42 you have about a 1% chance of making it through the fight but hey, u might get lucky. :) Depending on how many peeps are on the raid u can probably sneek in at 40-45 if they need ya.
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