Legacy of Ykesha
As a casual player, I've never personally agreed with need before greed. I work my hiney off to be able to buy/earn/farm for gear. That being said, the beauty about DKP is that the casual player still has a chance to get items, because once the Full Time Raid Force people get their gear, the casual people can still get theirs. Yes, it may take several raids, but I've seen incredible stuff rot because there were no takers.
I firmly believe in DKP as I have been in other guilds where I have gotten royally screwed over in loot despite my full time participation. I've also liked DKP because even if I'm low man on the totem pole, when a zone becomes farm status, I can still get drops on occasion. NOTHING is worse then spending 1000 hours in a zone and still not having an armor set, because your guild leader is afraid that if you have a full set, you won't come back (like the rest of my class did). I *still* did an additional 500 hours of farming *after* I got my set, which is more than I can say for *anyone* in that guild at the time, other than the raid leader, of course. ;)
Breastplate of the Healing Waters
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Scholar
28 posts
And raid guild i was in wanted to hit this dragon ,well i thought if this BP dropped id have 1st chance at it Nope Guild leader gave to PETBOY nice huh told me i didnt have enough points and offered up his PETBOYS gear which sucked and tried pacifie me with 2 k ,needless say i was pissed as hell, im no longer a part of that guild as they dropped me due to RL issues(like working ).
Edited, Wed Jun 14 02:38:55 2006
Edited, Wed Jun 14 02:38:55 2006
sounds like you should have worked the details out beforehand. hehe owned yourself.
3 posts
This is a sorry way to give something away some people have to work on weekens when most raids are set up. You know food and beverage are very nice to have when your hungery and thirsty!!!!!
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 23 2004 at 3:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is a sorry way to give something away some people have to work on weekens when most raids are set up. You know food and beverage are very nice to have when your hungery and thirsty!!!!!
Scholar
24 posts
on a side note..seen someone post about DKP points...i would never join a guild that does drops by DKP...how are you supposed to get everyone nicely geared if you go by a stupid rule like DKP ( lame comes to mind )../rant off
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 20 2004 at 10:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Check out Malus Imperium.com to find out. DKP is an excellent way. If your a slacker who shows up for every 5th raid then your not entitled to good loot imho.
Sad to see guild members who talk like this.
Sir, this is a game and people have priorities in real life that come first. Not everyone who shows up every few raids is a 'slacker'. There are great players who can only get on every so often, but still do one hell of a job when they attend. I have also seen a person who shows up to every raid yet can't do their job worth crap...yet still earns DKP points.
DKP is an option..I wouldn't say it's an excellent way. DKP is individual based and not necessarily always in the best interest of the guild as a whole. If you don't help the slower members out instead of constantly upgrading the same people's equipment then your raiding force suffers. If you have a problem with people not attending enough raids then you may want to discuss that your guild may not be for them...don't punish them with the term 'slacker' and refuse them loot. That's a stupid way of doing things imho.
Sir, this is a game and people have priorities in real life that come first. Not everyone who shows up every few raids is a 'slacker'. There are great players who can only get on every so often, but still do one hell of a job when they attend. I have also seen a person who shows up to every raid yet can't do their job worth crap...yet still earns DKP points.
DKP is an option..I wouldn't say it's an excellent way. DKP is individual based and not necessarily always in the best interest of the guild as a whole. If you don't help the slower members out instead of constantly upgrading the same people's equipment then your raiding force suffers. If you have a problem with people not attending enough raids then you may want to discuss that your guild may not be for them...don't punish them with the term 'slacker' and refuse them loot. That's a stupid way of doing things imho.
i for one agree with you. DKP should not be the only thing that determines who gets a drop in game, because some people have lives outside of everquest that they need to tend to every once in a while.
If I work my butt of for to earn points for an item, attending raids, flagging for guild members, etc etc. I DO have more of a right to X piece of equipment than Bob Newtotheguild. Sorry but that is just a fact. By what your saying, if an epic piece dropped when it was not planned that you and a warrior who just joined your guild should roll for it??? I got $$$ that says you would be upset if he won or even rolled for that matter. DKP is a very reliable system.
Quote:
if an epic piece dropped when it was not planned that you and a warrior who just joined your guild should roll for it??? I got $$$ that says you would be upset if he won or even rolled for that matter.
Bad example because Warrior epic is a novelty item and not really needed or used at the end game. Say instead any uber BP from say, Vex Thal and above (something that is actually useful).
As I said before, I am not knocking DKP...but it is definately geared for the individual and not for a guild concerned in building a solid raiding force.
Taking your example and substituting a BP instead of the epic drop: If I am wearing a decent BP and this BP drop from Vex Thal was a slight upgrade for me...yet the new guy (who has made an effort while raiding and does his part) is still using the BP off Vindi in KD...yes I would expect the BP to go to him. In my eyes it's smarter to strengthen the lesser equipped folk in the guild instead of offering a minute upgrade to an existing member.
Now this is assuming honest participation...sure number of raids should count for something, but I think quality of play plays as much a part. Perhaps if you don't think a newer person has earned something you should review your application process and make sure those who pass it are worthy of participating in your guild. Because when I see regulars calling newer members 'slackers' it spells out some serious attitude and moral problems within it.
19 posts
Your argument misses a couple of key points. DKP is actually at least as good for the guild as the individual. The person who has the DKP to "buy" high end items obviously is a member who raids a great deal. Those are the members a guild needs to keep geared up and DKP helps assure that those people get the best shot at gear.
As far as the minor upgrade issue... Yeah of course that happens, but not as often as one would think. Decent items aren't cheap and most folks save thier DKP for more substantial upgrades. If a person does buy a minor upgrade, well that means that they'll not be as able to buy the next one. It all balances out.
The only people that DKP is tough on are newer members. It can be a while before they get drops, but if they raid and gain points, they will get thier shot..
As far as the minor upgrade issue... Yeah of course that happens, but not as often as one would think. Decent items aren't cheap and most folks save thier DKP for more substantial upgrades. If a person does buy a minor upgrade, well that means that they'll not be as able to buy the next one. It all balances out.
The only people that DKP is tough on are newer members. It can be a while before they get drops, but if they raid and gain points, they will get thier shot..
DKP is the best way to distribute loot, because Officers of a guild can be "corrupt" and choose favorites... and some players will... well, they'll use some unorthodox methods to gain favor of an officer.
Quote:
because Officers of a guild can be "corrupt" and choose favorites...
If I suspect guild officers are corrupt I would not stay in that guild....
Ninja editing misread above statement, yes I've had same problem with Officers playing favorites on loot and essentially forced me to leave. I think the argument the guy above makes about minute upgrades is valid, but then again most new members are apps and shouldnt expect loot till they've finished apping which for most guilds on Druzzilro is about a month so by time your a full member you will more than likely have done more than your fair share of raiding.
Edited, Mon May 17 14:40:06 2004
Edited, Mon May 17 14:40:06 2004
2 posts
"Sad to see guild members who talk like this.
Sir, this is a game and people have priorities in real life that come first. Not everyone who shows up every few raids is a 'slacker'. There are great players who can only get on every so often, but still do one hell of a job when they attend. I have also seen a person who shows up to every raid yet can't do their job worth crap...yet still earns DKP points."
Agree, saying someone is a slacker because they cannot make raids is silly...But thinking the once in the while player will be any good is quite funny, not in how to play, but rather with flagging and the amount of time this alone takes, two weeks away and your guild would have left you behind in a lot of cases, if stagnation occurs, the guild got into time and finished GoD the casual player would then catch. Not rewarding someone who is there all the time would be silly, its the numbers after all in most cases. But, DKP alone is not at fault here, perhaps the time the guild raids is?
"DKP is an option..I wouldn't say it's an excellent way. DKP is individual based and not necessarily always in the best interest of the guild as a whole. If you don't help the slower members out instead of constantly upgrading the same people's equipment then your raiding force suffers. If you have a problem with people not attending enough raids then you may want to discuss that your guild may not be for them...don't punish them with the term 'slacker' and refuse them loot. That's a stupid way of doing things imho."
Don't blame DKP the previous posters term of slacker and his idea of DKP. A 24/7 raiding guild sucks for real life people no matter what system is in place. Currently no-one has come up with anything better, indeed plenty worse out there.
Sir, this is a game and people have priorities in real life that come first. Not everyone who shows up every few raids is a 'slacker'. There are great players who can only get on every so often, but still do one hell of a job when they attend. I have also seen a person who shows up to every raid yet can't do their job worth crap...yet still earns DKP points."
Agree, saying someone is a slacker because they cannot make raids is silly...But thinking the once in the while player will be any good is quite funny, not in how to play, but rather with flagging and the amount of time this alone takes, two weeks away and your guild would have left you behind in a lot of cases, if stagnation occurs, the guild got into time and finished GoD the casual player would then catch. Not rewarding someone who is there all the time would be silly, its the numbers after all in most cases. But, DKP alone is not at fault here, perhaps the time the guild raids is?
"DKP is an option..I wouldn't say it's an excellent way. DKP is individual based and not necessarily always in the best interest of the guild as a whole. If you don't help the slower members out instead of constantly upgrading the same people's equipment then your raiding force suffers. If you have a problem with people not attending enough raids then you may want to discuss that your guild may not be for them...don't punish them with the term 'slacker' and refuse them loot. That's a stupid way of doing things imho."
Don't blame DKP the previous posters term of slacker and his idea of DKP. A 24/7 raiding guild sucks for real life people no matter what system is in place. Currently no-one has come up with anything better, indeed plenty worse out there.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Nov 16 2003 at 1:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is now obsoleted by the LDON 1492 armor
#REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 03 2003 at 5:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OMG imho i believe this is a vaey nice bard chest
No, there isn't a lot better than this in this difficulty range for rogues. Only things I can think of are Wicked Mail, ornate bp, LDoN bps, or maybe buy a crafted elemental BP. Bards have all of that + vindicator or statue bp in that difficulty range (and Rumblecrush's other plate bp whose name escapes me right now in the case of the Wicked Mail). Having mana on it hardly makes it hybrid only, I could just as easily say the atk would be better suited in a rogue's hands due to rogues out damaging bards in melee, but that's just as stupid.
It's a plenty good bp for any melee who can use.
It's a plenty good bp for any melee who can use.
Aye, I can easily see where your coming from. Even though rogues arn't considered tanks they need their share of HP and even... dare I say it... AC. There are definatly rogues and monks and other DPS classes that can tank better than crappy tanks.
Anyways I would see no problem in a Rogue getting their hands on this, 55 mana is not much wasted when your talking about giving your rogues a few extra ATK points.
Anyways I would see no problem in a Rogue getting their hands on this, 55 mana is not much wasted when your talking about giving your rogues a few extra ATK points.
Is this any better for a warrior then the ToV BP? I was just browsing threw here and saw this. 
Looked like it might be a bit better. The only thing is tov bp has the invigorate and that comes in handy
Looked like it might be a bit better. The only thing is tov bp has the invigorate and that comes in handyWarrath
Endless Knot
Cazic-Thule
120 Shadowknight
Everquest Player Since 2001
Endless Knot
Cazic-Thule
120 Shadowknight
Everquest Player Since 2001
but invgotate will be removed in the release of the new expansion=)
Scholar
22 posts
it doesn't have a stamina heal so it won't be removed and I'm guessing you mean it will be removed on the day of the melee patch (speculated for Dec 16th). Thing is, Invigorate is a self only 100hp heal (equivalent to the spell Healing just self only).
As far as is this better? Yes. I would say so. Thing is, the velious BP is pretty good when healer is oom and you have down time. You can heal yourself back up or at least to a reasonable amount. Course, that is all situational. My warrior has a velious BP for this very reason.
As far as is this better? Yes. I would say so. Thing is, the velious BP is pretty good when healer is oom and you have down time. You can heal yourself back up or at least to a reasonable amount. Course, that is all situational. My warrior has a velious BP for this very reason.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 31 2003 at 2:51 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What do you know Kcirs? I keel joo! Muhuhuhwa!
39 posts
Well Considering if your doing this kill you are probabaly taking a guild with you, in which case you will be DKPing any drops, so i would say whomever has the DKP and wants its deserves it.
And to all the whinners that need to say who anything should go to look at the classes its elegable to all those, thats who it should go to.
Kcirs
65th Assling Rogue
Syndicate of Gods
Druzzil Ro
Topgun
63rd Dorf Cleric
Syndicate of Gods
Druzzil Ro
And to all the whinners that need to say who anything should go to look at the classes its elegable to all those, thats who it should go to.
Kcirs
65th Assling Rogue
Syndicate of Gods
Druzzil Ro
Topgun
63rd Dorf Cleric
Syndicate of Gods
Druzzil Ro
A lot of guilds capable of doing this do not use DKP. Its just as likely this will be merited, or even rolled on.
Edited, Tue Sep 9 09:37:13 2003
Edited, Tue Sep 9 09:37:13 2003
Yes a mighty fine rng/rog BP.. too bad you won't see many wearing em :(
5 posts
So the real question is... plate or chain look?
8 posts
*bump* anyone find out the graphic yet? Plate? Chain? Leather? (laughs)
Hybrid/Shaman would Benefit best from this BP. just an opinion. No need to explain myself really.
Hybrid/Shaman would Benefit best from this BP. just an opinion. No need to explain myself really.
3 posts
Clan X is from the Rathe Server
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 27 2003 at 2:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What Server is Clan X from? Dark Fidelity was the first guild to get the BP and Mask that is dropped off this mob in Veksar, unless my whole guild and GMs are mistaken. One of our necros wrote up the quest information. Oh well.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 25 2003 at 3:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) My question is why would a guild even consider letting their warriors roll or gain this BP, there are so many BP's out there that warriors could use and very few that are even decent for rangers/rogues. IMHO I would only allow my ranger/rogues at a shot at this BP. Let the warriors and plate wearers stick to their plate.
6 posts
Being a rogue myself, I agree. It really is difficult to get hold of decent armor sometimes, because the "tanks" get it all.
Vindi BP has more Resists, same effect, more sta and more HP. I'll keep my Vindi BP over this.
-Sir Tweedius Shadowslayer
65th Lord Protector
Venerable Talemont Bloodknight
65th Prophet
Imperial Guards
Druzzil Ro
-Sir Tweedius Shadowslayer
65th Lord Protector
Venerable Talemont Bloodknight
65th Prophet
Imperial Guards
Druzzil Ro
This isnt a tank BP, its for rangers, rogues and shamans. vindi owns this
#REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 08 2003 at 6:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Vindi BP is the SUXOR...Top things fer a Tank, AC/HP...
Because of the regenerate. If you're a war and without a healer, you would appreciate it.
Regen means nada... the 10 Atk which stacks with my self buffs, THAT is a nice effect.
10 posts
Sorry to be the one that has to tell you this. If the warrior doesn't have a healer in his/her group the regen on this Bp will not save them. Let the rangers, rog's have this. They will benefit the most from it.
Sigg Zagg
Warder of E'ci
Proud member of Na Koa
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=644764
Edited, Wed Jul 9 14:30:44 2003
Sigg Zagg
Warder of E'ci
Proud member of Na Koa
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=644764
Edited, Wed Jul 9 14:30:44 2003
Ya uh.. sorry to tell YOU this, but 2pts per tick isn't gonna help ANYONE.
Lots o' hp and AC, good for tanks that don't have Vindi or better, decent for shaman also.
Lots o' hp and AC, good for tanks that don't have Vindi or better, decent for shaman also.
SHM will be helped by the 2/tick regen just a tad less than they would be helped by FT2, since they can convert HP to mana fairly efficiently. Same would be true of necro, but of course they can't use this item.
Still, I agree with others: this should go to whoever feels they can use it, and all of the classes that can use it will benefit.
Still, I agree with others: this should go to whoever feels they can use it, and all of the classes that can use it will benefit.
Still should goto Rangers or Rogues over tanks or shaman cause Rangers and Rogues can't wear Vindi BP, they CAN wear this.
Also, shamans can wear Vindi too.
Also, shamans can wear Vindi too.
Scholar
27 posts
Nice BP ... Whats the Groups needed for this ?
I'm not thinking this guy takes an entire Raid force but i'm sure he need some Good Tanking....
Things are looking up in the AC area for Rangers :)
I'm not thinking this guy takes an entire Raid force but i'm sure he need some Good Tanking....
Things are looking up in the AC area for Rangers :)
1 post
Quote:
Don't forget that the Vindi BP also has 15 STA, so it really gives much more than 100hp.
Actually, that's not true. 15 sta gives 90hp. 1 point of sta gives 6hp at level 60, and I'm almost certain it doesn't get any higher.
17 posts
yes but the Vindi BP has +100 HP so what he is saying is +100HP +15 STA is equal to allot more then 100HP (190HP at level 60 by your math)
It differs by class. Warriors get more HP/STA than any class. I'm a Bard and Bards get less. At level 65 I get 169 HP from the Vindi BP, so 69 from STA alone, or 4.6 HP/STA.
And yeah the obvious conclusion to draw from what I said is that Vindi gives much more than 100hp all things considered. This assumes that your STA is not maxed yet. But for anyone farming Garudon or Vindi, this is a pretty safe assumption for anyone but large race tanks.
And yeah the obvious conclusion to draw from what I said is that Vindi gives much more than 100hp all things considered. This assumes that your STA is not maxed yet. But for anyone farming Garudon or Vindi, this is a pretty safe assumption for anyone but large race tanks.
I'm a rog so Vindi BP is outa the question anyway. My guild can do Vindi in seconds...think the fastest we killed him so far is in 67 seconds from engagement to dead. Gauradon is another raid target we started killing recently and until the third time we killed him, I had no idea he even dropped decent melee items let alone this BP. For me, the only BP dropping mobs my guild can do would be Gauradon, BoT tower bosses and any other that drops Ornate BP patterns....and..thats about it for the top comparable ones.
This BP, I would diffently take over a Stanos BP as it has 5 more AC and an effect I can acutally use and very much need. 15 less stam then Vindi BP? WHO CARES. As it is, after a shaman buff, I am already maxed out on stam at 305. Unbuffed I have 268stam. At the moment this is from crap items that have large stam on it..ok hitpoints, not very good AC. But my guild is back to raiding regularly and I am slowly getting items that are 80-100hp 15stam 30ac in many different slots. I can stand to lose stam in the BP slot and the only time it affects me is when I don't have a shamant to buff me...which is never cause my guild is full of lvl65 shamans and even if I "solo" I always use my lvl65 shaman bot...so..yah...I am always maxxed to 305 on all melee stats and soon be getting my shaman Ferine avatar to cast on me....so.....really I am looking for items to have hitpoints, AC and some kinda effect that I can use, and an attack increasing effect is ideal.
This BP, I would diffently take over a Stanos BP as it has 5 more AC and an effect I can acutally use and very much need. 15 less stam then Vindi BP? WHO CARES. As it is, after a shaman buff, I am already maxed out on stam at 305. Unbuffed I have 268stam. At the moment this is from crap items that have large stam on it..ok hitpoints, not very good AC. But my guild is back to raiding regularly and I am slowly getting items that are 80-100hp 15stam 30ac in many different slots. I can stand to lose stam in the BP slot and the only time it affects me is when I don't have a shamant to buff me...which is never cause my guild is full of lvl65 shamans and even if I "solo" I always use my lvl65 shaman bot...so..yah...I am always maxxed to 305 on all melee stats and soon be getting my shaman Ferine avatar to cast on me....so.....really I am looking for items to have hitpoints, AC and some kinda effect that I can use, and an attack increasing effect is ideal.
Not to say who should get it because my input won't make a different, but it seems like this should be directed to a ranger/rogue because others can get vindi bp
As a rogue myself, I am prolly a little biased :P But this really should go to rangers and rogues as the previous two people said.
edit: And Rokken, you're an idiot. Half of the illusion items you claim to have are GM only. You also picked a nice little array of GM only equipment too. You should not be allowed to post anywhere, ever.
Edited, Fri Jun 20 18:03:00 2003
edit: And Rokken, you're an idiot. Half of the illusion items you claim to have are GM only. You also picked a nice little array of GM only equipment too. You should not be allowed to post anywhere, ever.
Edited, Fri Jun 20 18:03:00 2003
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 30 2003 at 12:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And Bummey...I am not an idiot. On that profile if you would bother to read the bio...it says it is fake. But of course someone of your intellect would not bother to check it before insulting me.
hehe, called it a vindi bp for rouges/rangers just before reading your post.
Edited, Fri Jun 20 13:49:32 2003
Edited, Fri Jun 20 13:49:32 2003
This might be a better item for a shaman than a Vindi BP. More AC, some mana, just 10 less HP. The saves kinda blow tho
Yes, this BP is close to vindi BP. But vindi BP has +15sv all. This BP has only +5sv m/f/c. If I had to decide betwee these two BPs I would chose the vindi BP for my shaman. Because ranger / rogues can't use vindi bp this BP is damn nice for them.
Don't forget that the Vindi BP also has 15 STA, so it really gives much more than 100hp. Of course with the mana on this BP, it kinda sorta evens out in regards to Shamans. Makes for some interesting choices anyway.
the sta is nice but its really moot. most shamans keep their sta/str maxed. my sta at 60 is damn close to current max, and in any xp group i will have shaman buffs to max sta anyway. i look for raw ac/hps/effects over sta. taking that into account i would opt for this over a vindi as a warrior because of the 10 more ac and only 10 less raw hps. the saves blow indeed :( dex is nice too...
No offense friend, but STA is hardly a moot point if you aren't a Troll or Ogre. And even then it's not moot till you stand at 305 unbuffed. And by that time both the Garudon and Vindi BPs will most likely be distant memories.
Warriors get more HP per STA than any other class. I happen to be a bard, so I get less. I've worked to try to get my STA up, but it's not easy for half breed bards. So my STA is not maxed even with Shammy buffs. My Vindi gives me 169 HP at level 65. That extra 69 HP is hardly a non-factor.
For an Troll or Ogre tank things might be different. Every class has different needs and even beyond that each individual player has differing needs. But the main cruxt of my post was that they are both damn nice BPs. Hence the "It will make for some interesting choices anyway" remark. They are both great stepping stone items that a person should be happy to get on their way to becoming stronger.
Warriors get more HP per STA than any other class. I happen to be a bard, so I get less. I've worked to try to get my STA up, but it's not easy for half breed bards. So my STA is not maxed even with Shammy buffs. My Vindi gives me 169 HP at level 65. That extra 69 HP is hardly a non-factor.
For an Troll or Ogre tank things might be different. Every class has different needs and even beyond that each individual player has differing needs. But the main cruxt of my post was that they are both damn nice BPs. Hence the "It will make for some interesting choices anyway" remark. They are both great stepping stone items that a person should be happy to get on their way to becoming stronger.
Nice tem for ANY of the classes... Extremely Nice for Ranger/ Rogue
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