Shadows of Luclin
If your guild is VT enbabled, this item should go to a hybrid. Basically your casters and healers will have, or quickly obtain FT 15 or greater. Casters have a wide range of FT gear for a lot of slots and it drops relatively commonly compared to the hybrid usable drops. Hybrids have few FT items they can use, they are rare, many have poor stats, and overlap on slots needed for haste.
Im taking the point of veiw from where my guild is now, VT and 3rd Teir PoP enabled .. not yet into 4th Teir PoP. Im sure a similar argument could be made for all hybrid classes, but here goes from a pally point of veiw.
There are a range of FT items that you can simply rule out for a tanking hybrid on the basis of HP/Mana. Basically if your getting VT loot you need 75+ HP/Mana from an item.
Next, the back slot for Pal/SK should be discounted for FT, as you should have Emperor Ssra's sheild there. Its Pal/SK only, so not too long to wait to get it, and with its concentration on critical stats, click effect and +10% parry is all around the best thing you can put on your back. This cuts out a couple of otherwise very good FT items (Steel Skin Cloak FT3 (VT), and Cape Embroidered with Runes (PoTorment).
If your VT enabled you probably dont kill CT anymore so rule out CT's Brain. Shard from Unfathomable Depths only has 65HP .. its borderline .. not really enough HP for a tank. Warmasters Mask of Battle may be available to some, but most VT enabled guilds wont waste their time with this random and bugged event - so Im discounting it.
So that leaves us with;
FT8 - Talisman of Vah Kerath* (VT)
FT5 - Necklace of Endless Concepts (VT)
FT4 - Mask of Piety (VT)
FT4 - Nocnivens Small Book of Logic (Ssra)
FT3 - Girdle of the Tactician (PoTactics)
FIVE USABLE ITEMS FOR HYBRID FT, covering ONLY FOUR SLOTS.
Your available slots are neck, face, range and waist. A lot of hybrids will have haste in one of these slots, so you wont be able to use it for FT.
The Book from Ssra drops rarely, AHR neck, Necklace of Endless Concepts and Mask of Piety are all DEEP in VT (this makes them rare).
Therefore I think Pally, SK, Ranger, BL and Bard should have priority to loot any of those FT items. Basically they are the only items they can use, they are rare (compared to a lot of caster FT drops), and the only ones they can hope to use to cap their FT. Ranger is not likely to want this one, as its their bow slot.
Additional -
Rangers cant use Mask of Piety but have a Ranger only hand slot as detailed below - this item drops very rarely.
FT4 - Claws of Vyzh'dra - Ranger only (Ssra)
FT3 - Blood Veil of the Shissar - All/All has only Int no Wis - should be offered to SK or Bard before casters.
For the non-tanking classes (Rng, BL, Bard) The Shard of Unfathomable Depths (FT3), and Burrower Tunic (FT5) might be useful. These items have slightly less HP (both from Burrower - Deep) That gives these guys a couple extra options.
* Yes I know Talisman of Vah Kerath is not FT8, but has 8 HP/Mana regen and effectively FT8 as the cap for worn mana regen is 15.
Edited, Mon May 5 23:30:08 2003
Nocnivin's Small Book of Logic
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[Drops | Comments ]
DropsThis item is found on creatures. Ssraeshza Temple
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Unfortunately what you do not realize is that most guilds go by dkp, and that if the said class doesn't have these other ft items so he isn't capped(see:emp ssra shield), then he will no doubt bid on it. Shaman won it today, if i look at the classes on it tho, i can see that every class there can make good use of its stats and ft except for perhaps a ranger who should be using a bow ~
So in conclusion there really is no point in writing whole essays trying to discuss this since the guilds that kill it are in no way affected by you whatsoever and will just do what they always do to award items,dkp for example etc etc
If on the other hand your just looking to debate people on it i only suggest that you stop wasting your time, and find something relevent to argue about.
So in conclusion there really is no point in writing whole essays trying to discuss this since the guilds that kill it are in no way affected by you whatsoever and will just do what they always do to award items,dkp for example etc etc
If on the other hand your just looking to debate people on it i only suggest that you stop wasting your time, and find something relevent to argue about.
28 posts
Also comming from a VT enabled guild doing third tier pop mobs I can tell you our hybrids would probably not ask for this.
While all of your arguments are correct in principle, something many people forget is that it takes a LOT of loot to equip any average size raiding guild. We raid with between 40 and 60 people. That means we have a member base of about 80-100. VT only gives you around 30 loots per clearing, and can only be done once every 2-3 weeks depending on your rotation. That means you cannot depend soley on VT loot to raise ALL of your casters to FT15.
Given the choice of a caster at FT15 and a hybrid at FT15 - the casters will always go first.
I wont argue that it is a nice item for Hybrids. But saying that "this should go to this class because" always ignores the fact that each guild is in its own unique position and must distribute loot accordingly. On servers with 8 guilds in VT - I doubt this item would ever go to a hybrid. On servers with 2 or 3, it might happen more often. My bet would be that this almost always goes to pure casters.
Xalion Buscador
65 Arch Lich
Odysseys - Xev
While all of your arguments are correct in principle, something many people forget is that it takes a LOT of loot to equip any average size raiding guild. We raid with between 40 and 60 people. That means we have a member base of about 80-100. VT only gives you around 30 loots per clearing, and can only be done once every 2-3 weeks depending on your rotation. That means you cannot depend soley on VT loot to raise ALL of your casters to FT15.
Given the choice of a caster at FT15 and a hybrid at FT15 - the casters will always go first.
I wont argue that it is a nice item for Hybrids. But saying that "this should go to this class because" always ignores the fact that each guild is in its own unique position and must distribute loot accordingly. On servers with 8 guilds in VT - I doubt this item would ever go to a hybrid. On servers with 2 or 3, it might happen more often. My bet would be that this almost always goes to pure casters.
Xalion Buscador
65 Arch Lich
Odysseys - Xev
Your comments regarding guild size are reasonable. Our guild is probably one of the smallest guilds around doing these mobs. We raid VT with 25 to 35 - and our guild membership is probably around 55.
However I still think you need to look at the long term picture. Which is to maximise the potential of all the classes. Its no good giving this to a caster one day, then them switching it out for a different peiece of loot next week, and having 10FT in a bag that they dont wear.
This is what I see happening. That 10FT they have in a bag could be on a hybrid delivering improved raid performance.
However I still think you need to look at the long term picture. Which is to maximise the potential of all the classes. Its no good giving this to a caster one day, then them switching it out for a different peiece of loot next week, and having 10FT in a bag that they dont wear.
This is what I see happening. That 10FT they have in a bag could be on a hybrid delivering improved raid performance.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 17 2003 at 8:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How silly... a hybrid should never get a caster/priest desirable FT item first... fricking waste of FT.
Madalene,
I have a minor issue with your statement. Palladins are the only useful hybrid class?
I think not, as a Beastlord I do more buffing than any Palladin you could point out to me. Another thing if a Palladin in my guild stopped hitting the mob to sit back and buff then I'm afraid he'd be shot, drawn and quartered by our raid leader.
I know my role in a raid and it is simply as cannon fodder/buffing, my job is to keep Ferocity primed on our tanks (at 600 mana a cast I don't get too many casts from a full bar), Buffing before the kick off (if no shaman around).
For my guilds raids I generally have Fercoity prepped on atleast 3 people thats roughly 600 mana every 2 minutes I ca do more but after a while I lose the tanks in the carnage. All this is just for a Beastlord I'm not saying we deserve this and that over another class, never I would be quite the opposite, I would pass on this just to see a PAL/BRD/SHM get this but I would shoot the NEC/WIZ/MAG/ENC that needed this item to get the last 4 points needed for FT15.
All in all this is an insanely awesome item for any listed class, now if only I could raise my FT above 4 I'd be set. Seems I always get outbid by those damn casters... Oh well, back to raiding to get more DKP to get outbid further..
Sorry about the large post.
Edited, Sun Jun 20 01:57:13 2004
I have a minor issue with your statement. Palladins are the only useful hybrid class?
I think not, as a Beastlord I do more buffing than any Palladin you could point out to me. Another thing if a Palladin in my guild stopped hitting the mob to sit back and buff then I'm afraid he'd be shot, drawn and quartered by our raid leader.
I know my role in a raid and it is simply as cannon fodder/buffing, my job is to keep Ferocity primed on our tanks (at 600 mana a cast I don't get too many casts from a full bar), Buffing before the kick off (if no shaman around).
For my guilds raids I generally have Fercoity prepped on atleast 3 people thats roughly 600 mana every 2 minutes I ca do more but after a while I lose the tanks in the carnage. All this is just for a Beastlord I'm not saying we deserve this and that over another class, never I would be quite the opposite, I would pass on this just to see a PAL/BRD/SHM get this but I would shoot the NEC/WIZ/MAG/ENC that needed this item to get the last 4 points needed for FT15.
All in all this is an insanely awesome item for any listed class, now if only I could raise my FT above 4 I'd be set. Seems I always get outbid by those damn casters... Oh well, back to raiding to get more DKP to get outbid further..
Sorry about the large post.
Edited, Sun Jun 20 01:57:13 2004
every item will get bagged one day or another, especially a 3 expansions old one
#REDACTED,
Posted: Mar 12 2003 at 5:47 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) you guys must be joking lol
4 posts
/quote
you guys must be joking lol
you really think ur guild is gonna give this to a ranger?.. pls if they do.. they got issues..
yes nice that hybrid can use.. to bad hybrid probably wont get.. hello.. waste mana and item sense on a paly ranger or sk? sure they need mana to.. but near as much as cleric wiz druid.. course the druids no one cares about =P as far as shm necro ench.. ft is limited for that unlike wiz n cleric.. imho probably go to the clerics.. maybe wiz depending on gear of both in range.. <shrug> but dream a lil dream fo me =P give to a hybrid? never happen and if it did.. thats a joke..
taygarr
wiz of the 65th season
the seventh hammer
WIZROG!!!!!!!!/quote
/flame on
WTF? sigh another 65 wizzie goes to waste on an Ebayer..saying Druids are useless eh?
Druids role on a raid = buff, heal, DS, regen, DD, DoT.
As a lvl 48 druid I do over 1k dmg to every mob on a raid, while keeping regen, heal, buffs and DS up. Every class has it's use on a raid. Think before you post! /flame off
Oh and not to go too off topic, any class would certainly benefit from the FT on this item (even a ranger).
you guys must be joking lol
you really think ur guild is gonna give this to a ranger?.. pls if they do.. they got issues..
yes nice that hybrid can use.. to bad hybrid probably wont get.. hello.. waste mana and item sense on a paly ranger or sk? sure they need mana to.. but near as much as cleric wiz druid.. course the druids no one cares about =P as far as shm necro ench.. ft is limited for that unlike wiz n cleric.. imho probably go to the clerics.. maybe wiz depending on gear of both in range.. <shrug> but dream a lil dream fo me =P give to a hybrid? never happen and if it did.. thats a joke..
taygarr
wiz of the 65th season
the seventh hammer
WIZROG!!!!!!!!/quote
/flame on
WTF? sigh another 65 wizzie goes to waste on an Ebayer..saying Druids are useless eh?
Druids role on a raid = buff, heal, DS, regen, DD, DoT.
As a lvl 48 druid I do over 1k dmg to every mob on a raid, while keeping regen, heal, buffs and DS up. Every class has it's use on a raid. Think before you post! /flame off
Oh and not to go too off topic, any class would certainly benefit from the FT on this item (even a ranger).
8 posts
FYI there are alot of FT items out there that are for casters and there are very few of them that hybrids can use. Do the research this is the highest FT item that hybrids can use. Being that it is a ranged item I don't think rangers will get much use from it considering at this lv they probly have Aim 3 and depend on their bows more.
Well this was my 2cp worth. Flame away like you did all the other posts that even hinted at this item going to a class other then the main casters
Lyander
LV 58 Paladin
Well this was my 2cp worth. Flame away like you did all the other posts that even hinted at this item going to a class other then the main casters
Lyander
LV 58 Paladin
26 posts
all the hubub about these type of items going to spacific classes is Kinda silly. The only class in this level of the game that gets priority are as follows:
Wariors HP AC.
Rangers for Bows.
Rogues for piercers.
But even still, Every guild that I know of that is capable of killing mobs like this that require 50+ level 60 characters to kill, reward players based on their contribution to the guild or raid group. Be it points or assignment. The above classes will get a bit of favoritism for the stated items, but beyond that stuff goes to who has earned it. Be it druid, enchanter, necromancer, mage, cleric, beast lord, shadow knight, etc. Usually the people that repeatedly attended the raids that you wiped out in over and over while trying to figure out how to kill it.
Wariors HP AC.
Rangers for Bows.
Rogues for piercers.
But even still, Every guild that I know of that is capable of killing mobs like this that require 50+ level 60 characters to kill, reward players based on their contribution to the guild or raid group. Be it points or assignment. The above classes will get a bit of favoritism for the stated items, but beyond that stuff goes to who has earned it. Be it druid, enchanter, necromancer, mage, cleric, beast lord, shadow knight, etc. Usually the people that repeatedly attended the raids that you wiped out in over and over while trying to figure out how to kill it.
ahhhhhh give it to the druid!
we absolutely need that 3k heal rolling! :x
we absolutely need that 3k heal rolling! :x
14 posts
Warrios and Rogues can't wear it
3 posts
This SHOULD go to a casting class, as should all ft items, because they are the only class fully dependant on mana, specifically wizards, clerics, and druids. Mages have a pet to do some dmg while they recouperate, Necro's have their whole bone line and life taps to regain their lost hps. Enchanters get dire charm and have their clarity. And shaman get canabalize. I'm not saying it should go to the wiz/cleric/druid, I just find those three to be the least independent and have the most need for the item.
heh, good thing the same mob drops a ranger-only primary/secondary/hands ft4 item =D
18 posts
Fenixa Everborne here posting under a friend, currently in Ssra atm, with the advent of nerfing mod rods (im a 57 mage for those who dont know) mages now are nukers, sometimes massing mod rod, necros are mana feeding the clerics. also, wizards have their own line of mana regen through their pets and also gather mana. clerics are either getting mana fed or mod rod'd, and druids, well, they sit down with the rest of em lol. if you really wanna debate which classes dont get mana regen their own self mana regen, its mages/clerics/druids(dunno about their new regen spells though) just letting ya know, its all/all, everyone who CAWU should roll on it =)
Fenixa Everborne
57th Conjurer of Prexus
Brell Serilis
Fenixa Everborne
57th Conjurer of Prexus
Brell Serilis
Quote:
if you really wanna debate which classes dont get mana regen their own self mana regen, its mages/clerics/druids
Um sorry, but the last time I checked, the ONLY caster class that doesn't have a SELF mana buff is chanters. Ya that's right, chanters. Look at every other single class:
Clerics: BoTR
Druid: PoT9
Mage: Phantom series
Wizzy: Familiar/harvest
nec: Lich
Shammy: Twitch
Now, while the druid's isn't SELF only, it does stack with KEI. The enchanter has ONLY kei/voq, nothing else he casts stacks with it like the other classes.
That being said, arguing over what class can or will use this is stupid as it always is. I juat wanted to point out the big flaw in your logic =P.
6 posts
I'm not sure, but perhaps that has changed since the person you quoted posted...back in 2002.
amen. raid mages pump rods into casters even with the nerf, ds, and/or mala-malosini. the rest of the time we are nuking. so sadly, we dont have time to just sit there and med quietly. mages need mana as much as any other class.
Ok folks, though this will probably go to a caster class, and probably a cleric/chanty, it is still an awesome item for EVERY class on the list, and if i had a say/roll/pointsystem/whatever, on who got this, i wouldnt argue if any of the affor mentioned classes got a roll, nice item verant, very nice :)
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 16 2002 at 12:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wow, this is great for a monk!
Its just not funny anymore.
21 posts
It looks like there is a series of these.. they get tinier and tinier. What will the tiniest book be?
These are a great series of books that go into the range slot. That is great! It still keeps your hands free for a TON of other great gear. What fits in the Ammo slot to go with this? Nocnivin's Small magnifying glass of Logic?
Flowing thought IV is very cool, except like the other books it is Self only.
I am drooking over this, but I think Wisdom based characters will benefit more. The Wisdom and Int and extra Mana scream CLERIC!
I am sure we will see many arguments on the following threads over who is better suited for this item. And for you lamers out there who are about to say "This is great for a monk!" think again, I blew it for you. No.. it is not. I posted first! Ppppppppppppppppppppppptp!
These are a great series of books that go into the range slot. That is great! It still keeps your hands free for a TON of other great gear. What fits in the Ammo slot to go with this? Nocnivin's Small magnifying glass of Logic?
Flowing thought IV is very cool, except like the other books it is Self only.
I am drooking over this, but I think Wisdom based characters will benefit more. The Wisdom and Int and extra Mana scream CLERIC!
I am sure we will see many arguments on the following threads over who is better suited for this item. And for you lamers out there who are about to say "This is great for a monk!" think again, I blew it for you. No.. it is not. I posted first! Ppppppppppppppppppppppptp!
28 posts
What do you mean the FT is self-only? I have never heard of any FT item that can be "casted" on others. Anyways, FT is always a (Worn) effect so how would you ever cast it on someone?
allakhazam's = noob troll boards =/
they hit level 20 and they think they're a goddamn EQ encyclopedia. 'course, lvl 45 noobs are just the same, they just spew their ignorance louder and with more confidence. 47 myself, but i've learn to shut up and listen =D.
they hit level 20 and they think they're a goddamn EQ encyclopedia. 'course, lvl 45 noobs are just the same, they just spew their ignorance louder and with more confidence. 47 myself, but i've learn to shut up and listen =D.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 16 2002 at 9:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "The Wisdom and Int and extra Mana scream CLERIC!"
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