OK i have read many many articles,and am trying to get a grip on Taunting. I have read that many Warriors spam Taunt to keep aggro. However i have also read that a sucessful taunt puts you at the top of the hate list +1. So if i am at the top of hate list already ( say top of list +600) that another sucessful taunt would start me back at just the top +1, instead of 601. Can anyone clarify please? Should i spam Taunt is my question.
Xuberance 40 Warrior of Bertox
Classes: The Warrior
 | Warriors - the tank class. Combining a powerful offense with a strong defense, warriors are best suited to slugging it out toe to toe with the monsters they face.
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Spamming taunt is a waste. at BEST, it might add one hate. The way I understand it is, it is top of the hatelist +1. So, if you are top of the hatelist, its your hate+1 hate.
Which means the button will be down when you actually need to be at the top of the hatelist, and the wizard will die.
Which means the button will be down when you actually need to be at the top of the hatelist, and the wizard will die.
11 posts
on incomming of mob,i use scowl,if theres an over anxious caster hit bazu bellow. when the wizzy knocks out a blast i,ll hit taunt,so he dont take damage agro,,,,and wont hit it again till i see a big nuke! seems to work for me and keep the group alive,
three different thoughts on it
1. If you are not maxed on the skill, definatly always spam it.
2. During raids I tend to spam taunt for the first minute or two, you never know when someone is going to crit something at a bad time, after that I don't hit it anymore.
3. Depending on your hate set, and your dps makeup, spamming taunt may be needed. I have been in groups where I pull with the DoN shoulder clicky and a Wiz takes a 15k chunk out of the mob, then its a battle to see who can maintain aggro.
on a side note I usually use my Bazu to start things out for raids and groups, its a hate dot, so it builds in effectiveness.I mainly only use scowl during raids or when I am soloing for the rune effect.
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 2:16pm by Tawynia
1. If you are not maxed on the skill, definatly always spam it.
2. During raids I tend to spam taunt for the first minute or two, you never know when someone is going to crit something at a bad time, after that I don't hit it anymore.
3. Depending on your hate set, and your dps makeup, spamming taunt may be needed. I have been in groups where I pull with the DoN shoulder clicky and a Wiz takes a 15k chunk out of the mob, then its a battle to see who can maintain aggro.
on a side note I usually use my Bazu to start things out for raids and groups, its a hate dot, so it builds in effectiveness.I mainly only use scowl during raids or when I am soloing for the rune effect.
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 2:16pm by Tawynia
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28 posts
Quote:
During raids I tend to spam taunt for the first minute or two, you never know when someone is going to crit something at a bad time, after that I don't hit it anymore.
That is still bad advice. Spamming it just makes sure it's greyed out when you need it. So some wizard starts nuking early, you are spamming taunt. Since you are already at the top of the hatelist, you are adding 1 more point to yourself. Wiz crits for 10k, mob turns to the wiz, now you have the wiz getting hit, and you are waiting for taunt to come back up.
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spamming taunt means you hit Taunt any time your alowed to taunt again, IE. the hot key pops back up alowing you to taunt again, if you taunt everytime you are alowed to taunt again you get more lvls in taunt do it alot and you'll keep your taunt up to your lvl cap for that skill
ya,
but spamming it to skill up and just spamming because someone thinks it helps with agro are different.
Ugh, and never tie it to a bash or kick hotkey.
Annoys everyone when the mob bounces all fight.
but spamming it to skill up and just spamming because someone thinks it helps with agro are different.
Ugh, and never tie it to a bash or kick hotkey.
Annoys everyone when the mob bounces all fight.
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First, a "crit" by a spell caster does not add any additional aggro. It used to be that aggro was directly related to the amount of damage done to the mob. With some wizards scoring some great crits, they would get smashed. The code was changed so that the aggro is pre-crit.
A successful taunt just places you at 1 aggro point above the highest on the aggro list. Here is ny advice:
If you are not the puller:
1. Shoot an arrow or throw a stone at the incoming mob. This will give you some aggro, but probably not enough to be at the top of the list.
2. Use the Bellow/Mock aggro skills. This will add to your aggro, and should get the mob's attention.
3. Go ahead and attack. Save your Taunt. Since the mob will be debuffed and slowed right in the beginning, this is usually where someone will pull aggro.
If you are the puller:
1. Pull with one of the aggro skills. They are actually an aggro-over-time effect, so you may get another tic or two of aggro during the pull.
2. Go ahead and attack. Save your Taunt. Since the mob will be debuffed and slowed right in the beginning, this is usually where someone will pull aggro.
A successful taunt just places you at 1 aggro point above the highest on the aggro list. Here is ny advice:
If you are not the puller:
1. Shoot an arrow or throw a stone at the incoming mob. This will give you some aggro, but probably not enough to be at the top of the list.
2. Use the Bellow/Mock aggro skills. This will add to your aggro, and should get the mob's attention.
3. Go ahead and attack. Save your Taunt. Since the mob will be debuffed and slowed right in the beginning, this is usually where someone will pull aggro.
If you are the puller:
1. Pull with one of the aggro skills. They are actually an aggro-over-time effect, so you may get another tic or two of aggro during the pull.
2. Go ahead and attack. Save your Taunt. Since the mob will be debuffed and slowed right in the beginning, this is usually where someone will pull aggro.
Taunt on a red con mob, is a luck thing, thats why I spam it for the first min or two. If I lose agro on a raid, I would never depend on taunt to get the agro back, I will normally pop my AE taunt.
Spamming taunt at the beging of the fight, while I agree is a long shot, has saved a couple of casters who thought it would be a good idea to lifeburn at the begining of a fight.
And yes this is my opinion based on my xp, not anything I have parced or spent allot of time researching. In all reality, I have a worse time with people agroing on a pull, then agroing once I have engaged. That is except for the occasional tank that hits his taunt successfully, for some idiotic reason.
Spamming taunt at the beging of the fight, while I agree is a long shot, has saved a couple of casters who thought it would be a good idea to lifeburn at the begining of a fight.
And yes this is my opinion based on my xp, not anything I have parced or spent allot of time researching. In all reality, I have a worse time with people agroing on a pull, then agroing once I have engaged. That is except for the occasional tank that hits his taunt successfully, for some idiotic reason.
So even when you are not the main tank you intentionally try to taunt the mob off because you're "a meat shield too"? Wow
Even after the MA has told you to stop you continue doing something that will bleed healer mana? Holy moley
If I were healer for that group you'd be one dead meatshield and I don't think I'd bother rezzing you if you continued to do it after the first death "warning". I'd pick up and leave and say "Okay, looks like this guy wants to try soloing" since you clearly don't know how to work with a group.
Non-MA Melee that attack from the front and get heavy riposte damage is bad enough. They are just too lazy to take the extra second to position themselves behind the mob. Someone intentionally taunting the mob off the MA is a big no no. If your taunt skill is maxed, there's no need to spam it anymore. In a group where you are not the MA you shouldn't use it even if it's not maxed, unless you're trying to get a mob off a caster. You are only pissing off the MA and the healer.
Agro control is a very important aspect of the game that all classes need to be aware of and do their best to manage in the group. Healers know that HoT give very little agro so they use those at the beginning of the fight. Slowers know they sometimes have to wait until agro is established before they lay out the debuffs. Rogues know their melee dps is going to outpace the MA so they have to be ready to Evade or else wait a bit before engaging.
If you think you're helping the group by doing what you're doing then you're wrong. I think you are only doing it to gratify yourself that "I can take agro from a bigger tank".
Even after the MA has told you to stop you continue doing something that will bleed healer mana? Holy moley
If I were healer for that group you'd be one dead meatshield and I don't think I'd bother rezzing you if you continued to do it after the first death "warning". I'd pick up and leave and say "Okay, looks like this guy wants to try soloing" since you clearly don't know how to work with a group.
Non-MA Melee that attack from the front and get heavy riposte damage is bad enough. They are just too lazy to take the extra second to position themselves behind the mob. Someone intentionally taunting the mob off the MA is a big no no. If your taunt skill is maxed, there's no need to spam it anymore. In a group where you are not the MA you shouldn't use it even if it's not maxed, unless you're trying to get a mob off a caster. You are only pissing off the MA and the healer.
Agro control is a very important aspect of the game that all classes need to be aware of and do their best to manage in the group. Healers know that HoT give very little agro so they use those at the beginning of the fight. Slowers know they sometimes have to wait until agro is established before they lay out the debuffs. Rogues know their melee dps is going to outpace the MA so they have to be ready to Evade or else wait a bit before engaging.
If you think you're helping the group by doing what you're doing then you're wrong. I think you are only doing it to gratify yourself that "I can take agro from a bigger tank".
6 posts
Drax, If you are not the main tank of a group you have No business taunting off the mob if it is attacking the main tank-- that's the point mfbrownbear is trying to make.
If you are not the main tank in a group that means you are a backup or offtank. Therefore if you are taunting off aggro when the mob is attacking the main tank you are doing two things incorrectly:
1) you're stealing aggro purposely from the main tank when you shouldn't be
2) you're wasting your own taunt because if the mob were to attack a caster, as an offtank it's your job to control it. If you are spamming taunt and stealing from the main tank when you shouldn't be, you risk your taunt key being down and not available for use when it's Truly needed.
you also seem to be confused on how taunt works.
it seems like you think that if someone has their taunt maxed it will hold the mobs aggro forever until they die but that's not how it works. As stated before in this thread, taunt works like this:
puts you to the top of the hate list +1 point (this of course only applies to successful taunts, taunt can fail of course)
that's why, if you have 2 people spamming their taunt keys, there will be aggro flopping around, which is something healers dislike usually. Even if the Main tank is at the top of the aggro list, if you taunt the mob successfull it will start attacking you. As a backup/offtank, you should be saving your taunt key for when/if a mob is attacking someone besides the main tank, or if there is an add which needs tanking as well.
If you are not the main tank in a group that means you are a backup or offtank. Therefore if you are taunting off aggro when the mob is attacking the main tank you are doing two things incorrectly:
1) you're stealing aggro purposely from the main tank when you shouldn't be
2) you're wasting your own taunt because if the mob were to attack a caster, as an offtank it's your job to control it. If you are spamming taunt and stealing from the main tank when you shouldn't be, you risk your taunt key being down and not available for use when it's Truly needed.
you also seem to be confused on how taunt works.
Quote:
I was making a point as to how Taunt DOES work, and if you are maxed out in taunt no matter what lvl you are it will let you have compleate agro from the mobs
it seems like you think that if someone has their taunt maxed it will hold the mobs aggro forever until they die but that's not how it works. As stated before in this thread, taunt works like this:
puts you to the top of the hate list +1 point (this of course only applies to successful taunts, taunt can fail of course)
that's why, if you have 2 people spamming their taunt keys, there will be aggro flopping around, which is something healers dislike usually. Even if the Main tank is at the top of the aggro list, if you taunt the mob successfull it will start attacking you. As a backup/offtank, you should be saving your taunt key for when/if a mob is attacking someone besides the main tank, or if there is an add which needs tanking as well.
God do you people even read the post or just the first few lines and make you opinions, I was the main tank, even tho i was smaller i was still the main tank, i was also the group leader and the puller, and my wife was the cleric. before you chastise some one please take the time to READ the Post, Just becoulse there happens to be a Bigger Tank Join the Group DOES NOT MAKE HIM MAIN ASSIST, even tho he Assumes he is becoulse he may have a few levels on Me.
People tend to make Asumptions such as you are, i bet if you get in a group, you will push aside the Puller if hes smaller than you too and start pulling mobs thinking he is smaller your new job is to be main assist there for you pull, ..... see i can make ASSumptions aswell
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 4:54pm by draxxu
People tend to make Asumptions such as you are, i bet if you get in a group, you will push aside the Puller if hes smaller than you too and start pulling mobs thinking he is smaller your new job is to be main assist there for you pull, ..... see i can make ASSumptions aswell
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 4:54pm by draxxu
6 posts
even if you are the main tank spamming taunt is pretty useless if you are already on the top of the hate list, which was the main question of this thread- not arguments about who should be the main tank in a group.
some people choose to spam taunt just out of habit, or to work on skilling it up. But if you are already on the top of the hate list then spamming taunt will not increase aggro very much, just 1 point, it may be more useful to save it for when/if someone steals aggro.
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 9:20pm by Zilchguy
some people choose to spam taunt just out of habit, or to work on skilling it up. But if you are already on the top of the hate list then spamming taunt will not increase aggro very much, just 1 point, it may be more useful to save it for when/if someone steals aggro.
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 9:20pm by Zilchguy
Draxxu, you're right I did jump to conclusions but your post wasn't exactly clear on the points. You never mentioned who was main tank.
Lots of warriors .. indicates you do it often with different groups
if you don't like me pulling the agro .. indicates you did not have agro and took it from them
they tell me to stop it, i just say hey .. you don't say "i'm the tank so YOU please stop taking agro" you say neener let's have a taunt battle.
i'm a meat shield .. multiple meat shields taking damage means more heals and more mana. If you're taking 2 or more mobs at once and need offtanks fine, but with one mob it's a stupid waste of mana.
well max your taunt out as i have .. gratz now go work on your Kick skill
Quote:
lots of warriors that are bigger than me ask," Are you taunting?' and when i say yea, they tell met to stop it, i just say hey i'm a meat shield too, if you dont like me pulling the agro, well max your taunt out as i have
Lots of warriors .. indicates you do it often with different groups
if you don't like me pulling the agro .. indicates you did not have agro and took it from them
they tell me to stop it, i just say hey .. you don't say "i'm the tank so YOU please stop taking agro" you say neener let's have a taunt battle.
i'm a meat shield .. multiple meat shields taking damage means more heals and more mana. If you're taking 2 or more mobs at once and need offtanks fine, but with one mob it's a stupid waste of mana.
well max your taunt out as i have .. gratz now go work on your Kick skill
Bear you are completly right, i re read my origional post and i never said i was the MA, i can see how Dumb it sounds from looking at it from the Out side and i admit to everyone i chastised, that i was realy Unclear and worded it wrong, may i have your forgiveness, if not i will cry till i do :'>( thats what happens when you give a old redneck coot a 'puter and turn us loose on the EQ world lol. again i apoligize sencearly
1 post
I usually read these for good laughs, but to get this back on course of the original question....If your not maxed in a skill as a tank then spam the skill to get it up. Now as for taunt: Once you get a successfull taunt and the mob is beating you, leave the button alone. I dont care what environment your in. Group or Raid. Taunt is there for us to jump to the top of the hate list when ppl get itchy dps fingers. We have all kinds of Disc's and AA's for keeping our hate up. ie. Bazu Bellow, Scowl, Vortex Blade (if not mezzing multiples). AA's such as Grappling Strike, which while its not huge hate...it is hate and it doesnt cost endurance. And when you get up to the end game you should have the new AA's from SoF they gave us. They help allot, Aura of Hate ect... Anyway, just leave the poor little taunt button alone.
Makyaded 80 Warrior
Makyaded 80 Warrior
Parsing posted on the warrior forums shows taunt is not always "top +1" and that aggro management is influenced by additional factors.
I didn't believe it either and previously thought it was always "top +1" on a successful taunt. So, I tried it recently.
The sham I duo with pulled with malo and slow, attack off and steins equipped. I taunt (attack not on) .. no effect for 3 tries. On the 4th, I got aggro - all tries were successful. This is with attack off keep in mind. With attack on and close proximity, I got aggro every time the first try.
The testing indicates taunt may have a number base tied to it as well, at least for initial aggro list generation.
I didn't believe it either and previously thought it was always "top +1" on a successful taunt. So, I tried it recently.
The sham I duo with pulled with malo and slow, attack off and steins equipped. I taunt (attack not on) .. no effect for 3 tries. On the 4th, I got aggro - all tries were successful. This is with attack off keep in mind. With attack on and close proximity, I got aggro every time the first try.
The testing indicates taunt may have a number base tied to it as well, at least for initial aggro list generation.
my lvl 65 warr can taunt agro from a higher lvl warrior, beings as how my taunt is maxed out. lots of warriors that are bigger than me ask," Are you taunting?' and when i say yea, they tell met to stop it, i just say hey i'm a meat shield too, if you dont like me pulling the agro, well max your taunt out as i have. also it will help my defence skill us as well, i have all those maxed and plan on keeping them that way. i dont kick as much as i use too dont like the knock back and putting mobs inside walls or up hill sides or colems, so its not maxed, but i kick only to interupt casters, but i still spam taunt
Edited, Jul 20th 2007 9:45am by draxxu
Edited, Jul 20th 2007 9:45am by draxxu
well first off let me say that thank god you are not the healer and secondly my wifeis usually the cleric and I am usually MA, in those groups for I usually start them as a group leader, before you critisize re-read the posts above. I was making a point as to how Taunt DOES work, and if you are maxed out in taunt no matter what lvl you are it will let you have compleate agro from the mobs. ( Unless the other tank is maxed in Taunt aswell) as to the other tank if i have compleate agro he is not getting hit. i am the one taking all melee Damage there for the only one needing healed, not him that is why a lvl 67 warrior gets mad at a lvl 64 "Meat shield" and i do save any cleric mana when i am tank becoulse i Love going beserk, and beg not to be healed til around 35% healt and as any one knows CH cost less mana that way. ogh and becoulse a tank is bigger than me does not automaticaly make him the MA, we each have a role to play in a group, and extra DPS is just that, i have Hate Augs and use my disks, and hold agro that way if needed but its not necessary to use those unless the healer or shammy or Wizard pull agro for a second ind if they do I have /shield Hot keys made up for each group member if they generate too much hate with thair slow/nuke or heal, you may want to auctuall make a warrior or cleric on E-Marr and play with me you'll see i made a fine Tank and if anyone dies it will be me sacrificing my self for the whole group while they Evac, after all it is a Meatshields Job to die if necessary( but it usually happens when i pull a lvl 70 mob or so and get snared or Bazu Griped or if i get too close to shadowhunter or any number of mobs we killed and have killed me in the 9 years i have been playing
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 2:29am by draxxu
Edited, Jul 21st 2007 2:29am by draxxu
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