I aggree with you. I think your right about what levels and everything. Good advice, unless in a Raid guild it's pretty much worth it, for nothing else but the augs sometimes. The experience you earn doing them, far as exp. playing your class will be good for you too.

On the note about tanking DoN's pre 70, you can... You can do them in OOW too. I am only 67 and nothing special about me at all, and I can tank them. Have done it in groups all level 70 but me as well, those suck though, LOL.

Woo hoo!
We agree! =)
LDoNs were decent exp at lower levels, and remain so so EXP/AA xp at higher lvls
and don't forget your Adventurer Stone
enough LDoNs and you've got yourself a nice little augment

I would suggest that you cannot get many drops that are better than LDoN amor from DS or BF. As I recall you will need equipment at least as good as the LDoN EF in order to tank in NC. And you will need the same or better armor and a good number of AA in order to tank WoS. Furthermore I never got an invite to group in BF or DS. Sure we hunted these zones, mostly with lower lvl alts. I would say that for the levels i stated you are much more likly to get invited to do a LDoN than you are to adv in DS or BF.

So sure you can skip LDoN content if you have the plat to by LDoN equilent equipment from the bazzar, and have a normal group that you can spend all of your on line time with, who dosen't want or need LDoN spells and or items.



I don't clame to be an expert on OOW tier 1 armor, but as I recall there were 0 items you can get with out hunting in RCoD, OOW and other highend OOW zones. And as stated above you need to have at least LDoN class of armor to tank these zones. I wonder how many tier 1 armor items you ended up with. I don't think I know any one who got a full set. And most obtained only a few items. And these people spent a lot of time in OOW groups. In fact if hours played per armor item obtained is considered as the cost of the armor, I suggest that LDoN armor is cheeper than OOW tier 1 armor.. And you need LDoN class or better armor in order to tank the mobs that drop the quest items.


Here are some augs from LDoN that are probably better than any you can get from OOW. Anger III, 36% haste. (frees up a slot for high ac high stats item). Type 7 40 hp augs, yes there are higher hp agus but I can't remember any you can get pre lvl 65. Then there are all the sta augs. Yes the OOW can be better but they are not near as common, and come from much harder content.



One more thing, it is apprent that you spend a considerable amount of time playing EQ. I'll bet on the days you play, you play for hours on end. Nothing wrong with this but playing for many hours at a time give you a better chance to get into the groups that normally have the best drop camps.
I'm also quite certain that the vast majority of the plat you made came from zone harder to tank than NC.




What you fail to realize is that in order to progress as you suggest a warrior needs to buy LDoN equilevent armor. And he needs to buy it before he tanks in NC. Which neams she has to earn the plat with out having access to most of the drop you sold to make your 300K.

Furthermore the pre lvl 70 warrior that skips LDoN has a harder time holding agro (no anger III). Has to use one inv slot for a haste item. Dose not have as many agus.
But most importantly the warrior who skps LDoN dosen't have as much fun :)


Edited, Sat Oct 1 07:06:39 2005 by WarriorJoe

Edited, Sat Oct 1 07:11:43 2005 by WarriorJoe

Yes you can make a lot of plat with slugworms but they are very rare drops. I think i saw 5 drop the whole time I was in OOW zones. The way I figure it if you wone three rolls for them you were very lucky. But more likly you were Power Leveling your warrior in the zones you menctioned. Even today i think those who two box are the exception.

One more thing, what do slugworms sell for these days? Last on I sold went for 15kp as I recall, but that was quite some time ago.



Which DS or BF armor drop do you consider to be an upgrade for a LDoN EF armor? Yes there are some decent drops in BF but I don't remember any that were upgrades for LDoN armor.




The question remaines...how many Tier 1 armor quests can you complete without getting drops from RSoD, WoS, and/or other high end OOW zones? Or are you suggesting that low level warriors hang around the OOW zones hoping for someone to /ooc the drop they need? Seems like a very big waste of time. The point is you need EF LDoN or better armor inorder to obtain tier 1 drops. That is unless you multibox, or camp your low level warrior off to the side of your higher level group and have them loot what would normally rot.



From time to time I put together LDoN groups with either my 61 monk or my 53 pali. From when I look at who is lfging to when we split the plat is normally less than an hour. And often the group will do two or three more adv before breakinig up. And about 50% of the time I'm the one that has to leave, so the group might even last longer. The key is, if the right classes are not lfging I go lfg and solo. I would say that for the level ranges i suggested the avd time to do an adv is about 30 minutes. And once LDoN groups are formed they do multipul adv.
As far as the number of invites you get to which zones, only my lvl 70 warrior get more invites to OOW zones than to LDoN adv. There are still a number of spell that caster need from LDoN content, and there are still aug, armor and other items folks want from LDoN.

To summerize the time comparison
1. from lvl 50 to lvl 65 LDoN groups are far more common than eitehr DS or BF groups. As I said earlier I've never recived an invite for either of these zones.
2. Due to #1 BF or DS groups take longer to make than LDoN groups. there is no insurance that onec you get your group together the camp you want will not be camped by a Farmer.
3. You can camp the names for hours with out seening one pop.
4. Unless you are multiboxing (which i supect is what you did) even if you get the name to pop and if the name drops the item you need you have a 1 in 6 chance of getting it.
5. There are very few items you can obtain from DS or BF that are upgrades for LDoN armor. So you spend more time obtaining lesser equipment.
6. When you complete your LDoN mission, you get your points, so OK plat, and there are name in LDon that have some decent drops as well.



How many +12 sta augs do you have?
I have about 20 sta augs from LDoN. Yes a number of them have been replaced with better augs from later conten. But I still wear a few of them. The point being when I first walked into NC I have every aug slot filled with a aug that was benifical.

Of the augs you listed, short of the ones that can be cut, I didn't see any from DS or BF that were better than the ones I listed from LDoN. The BF stun aug is good, I have one on my EoE but it is on my EoE because it is not near as good as anger III.
Then there are weapons. There is a decent 2hb that drops in DS. And inspite of its lower usable level at the levels we are talking the GSoT is better.

As for my knowlage of OOW. I have tanked enough OOW zones for The Cleric, the Enchanter, and the Beast I normally group with to have all but one or two OOW spells from runes. They got the rest of their spell from pick up groups. I have also helped Some other caster friends obtain a number of their spells.

Now granted this means that most of my time in OOW was in zones harder then DS and BF. However I have played alts in these zones, and also teamed up with friends who wanted some of the drops.

As for the level of my toons, they range from the 20's to lvl 70, and I have high lvl toons on 3 different servers.

As for how long I've been playiing. I bought the game 1 month after it came out. My guild hit it's peak during SoV. We were raiding places like HoT. Fighting over loot caused a number of splits in my guild, and for the most part ended our raiding. However our core group continued to raid with other guild until OOW. This was mostly GoD content and lower PoP content. Now a days we focus on one group content.

I find it intresting that you recomend zones that have never been popular zones for grouping, and then complane about the amount of time it takes to get a LDoN group. It is my experance that due to the spell that cansters can only get from LDoN, and the quality of armor, there are a number of folks doing LDoN at levels up to 65.

It seems to me that your recomended path is only valid from multiboxing or Power leveling. I base this on the fact that you never once menctioned the best lower lvl OOW zone. The only pre NC OOW zone that regulary has more than one group in it. This and the fact that on the servers I play on, the zones you recomned are used by farmers, soloers, and Power Levelers, and have never been popular zones for grouping.

So yes perhaps you can get enough bazaar saleable items from DS and BF to buy LDoN level equipment. But due to the lack of group in these zones, the rareness of the drops, and the amount of time needed to sell them in the bazaar it will take you far more on line time.
The one advantage of OOW zones over LDon zones it the rate at wich you can gain exp. However for what ever reason, most of the folks intrested in exp, ie those who have equipment they believe is good enough for the higher OOW zones and other such content, perfer to grind in the PoP zones. On the servers I play on zones are populated by 3 diffrent kinds of people. There are groups looking for great exp. They do not camp DS or BF. There are groups looking to upgrade their equipment, maybe 1 in 10 of these will group in BF. Then there are Soloers, Farmers, and Power Levelers. or those who do not need others to obtain their objetives. These are the ones that camp DS and BF and more and more domonate the best NC camps.

Word?

Eye of the dragorn is +5 all resists. Dull stone of sorrow is +5 all stats. Gem of the chosen ones is +15 hp/mana/end, and Ruddy Garnet is +25 hp. All 4 drop in Dranik's scar. There are other +25 hp augs that drop in Dranik's hollows and harbinger's spire.



Four, if we accept your definition of RCoD and WoS as high end.

Spire control shards, Kuuan traitor stones, duskfall chronicles and Dranik blood standard all drop in Nobles causeway, and sicne the last is for wrists, you can actually get FIVE slots filled with Tier 1 armor, without ever passing NC. And don't try to say you need LDoN armor to tank there. I have done NC groups with groups where every member is below level 60, and not well geared.

Also, I should point out that many pieces of magnetized armor drop in NC/Bllodfields/DS so with a friendly smith around, you could fill slots with magnetic armor until you get the tier 1. As a smith,m I can tell you that most will be willing to do combines, either for skillup chance, out of friendship, or if neither of those are the case, for a small donation. I have personally made full sets of magnetic for at least 5 different people, out of pieces they brought to me for combines.

Having said all this, let me say that I am not anti-LDoN. I used to really enjoy doing LDoNs. My over 150 adventures in LDoN netted me a total of one N-Ro armor piece, and 3 augments to go in it. It would have taken even more wins, if I had started at level 50, since they gave fewer points per win.LDoN's can be fun, and I am certainly not saying not to do them, but seriously, don't expect to get a SET of gear from them.

Now, my reason for bringing that up: It would be ridiculously time consuming to even attempt to fully equip in a set of LDON armor. There is absolutely no comparison between OOW tier 1 and LDoN. I have a friend who had EVRY nodrop item for the OOW tier 1, except for chest and legs, and the only thing holding him back from finishing, was faction, which still took a tiny fraction of the time that it took me to earn my LDoN BP.

Then, factor in the cash drops, and bazaarable stuff, and it is no contest at all.

But, if you like LDoNs go ahead and do them. They are fun! But They are not a fast gearup path.

Edited, Mon Oct 3 18:05:41 2005 by xaanru

Completely not true. My 62 monk has 2 of the no drop pieces, and I have probably played him in OOW for a total of 5-10 hours, and I wasn't even trying to get the items. To get an EF armor item, at 760 points, and then aug it out to the equivalent of tier one OOW, would take far longer.




Below lewvel 65, the best stamina aug that drops in ldon is +6 in the hard, and +5 in the normal. I would tend to place +5 to all stats, including stamina, above +6 to stamina (assuming of course you're high enough level to get a +6. The DS ones are doable untwinked at about level 50).



The only pieces of tier 1 that are hard to get are chest and legs.



When OOW first came out, I used to group with a couple of guildmates in RCOD and WoS. Both were 65 at the time. The SK was wearing Dark Prince regent armor, and the warrior wore fierce heraldic. We camped the benches area in RCoD, and were able to keep the spawns cleared all the way from Granitesmash to the snake lady by the bridge. In WoS we usually took a murkglider cave, since the trains outside the caves were pretty bad when the zone was new.

So the answer is, to tank beyond NC, you need easy to make tradeskilled armor. It's a piece of cake to get enough to move past NC.

The biggest problem people have in OOW is perceptual. People HEAR that you need X hp and Y AC, and they assume it's true. Most of the time, what they mean is, with a horribly unbalanced group, or very distracted members, you can get by with an overkill tank.

I had to come back and add that every one is entitled to their own views on which way is better. Just try different ways and see for yourselves. Please come back after you try tho and RATE our posts so others wont waste their time.


GoldenQuak 70 Cleric - Quellious
Goldendreamer 70 Warrior- Quellious
GoldenBear 65 Shaman - Quellious
GoldenCat 65 Druid - Quellious
GoldenHen 62 Enchanter Quellious
Goldenbones 62 Necro. Quellious




Edited, Tue Oct 4 20:34:48 2005 by Goldenquak

WJ brings up some really good points. Though you dont NEED the LDON armor in the mentioned level range, it certainly makes life easier.

The only disagreement I have is with this:

This statement can vary widely from server to server. On some servers, LDON can be quite popular. On some, however, such as my serer, its not that popular at all.

how sad. i really loved the ldons. by now, all the gear i gained in ldon is next to useless.

I think almost every class has an item they need from ldons, I know with three of my toons I something each needed that I had to earn allot of points for, RGC, Pet enhancer up to 65, and hate augs. I would expect people to play in Ldons for lower level equipment augs too. I don't think they will ever die out.

I have a 50 warrior on the Combine server, where LDoN has recently been unlocked. It had been a while since I'd done these, but not being much of a raider I decided to go through these rather than try to get pickup raids and PoP groups.

I'd like to go over the pro/con list as I see it as a 50 warrior who is actively doing these adventures now.

Pros:
+ Steady xp. Not super fast, but steady.
+ On Combine not too hard to get a group for them during peak and post-peak hours.
+ Augs. In the 6 missions I've done in the past 2 days I've seen 6-7 augs drop, 4 of which I got (2 were resists that were going to rot, 1 was +5 sta and 1 was +5 str). They're not great, but seeing as how until this all of my armor was un-auged these were still a boost.
+ PP. No, you don't get much... for me about 35-45 pp a mission, but it adds up and is a nice bonus.
+ Loot. Some of the gear that drops isn't half bad, and especially on a progression server can sell well. Also being a smith the tradeskill drops have yielded some nice armor pieces. Some have been sold, and some were actually upgrades to my own gear.

Cons:
- Slow point progression. I started doing these at 49 and dinged 50 in the mean time. Doing normal missions I get 15 adventure points and 22 for hards. For that 760 point armor from EF it's going to take me 760/15 = 51 missions. Now earlier 30 minutes was used as the time to complete a mission. I'd say on average for me it's been 45 minutes a mission (remember, combine doesn't have much in the way of twink gear). At 45 minutes a mission it's going to take me 38.25 hours of playing to get a single MM armor piece. That's if all of that play time is spent already in a group just running through mission. It doesn't take into account the time to put a group together and decide where to go. I will guess that that time is roughly negated, however, by getting more points as level increases. It also doesn't count that you might be able to get a group but not where you want. However points are points so long as you have the armor piece you want unlocked, so if you really want multiple pieces it isn't terrible if your group wants to go elsewhere.
- Can become tedious. They're fun for a while, but do 51 MM missions and see how excited you are to do another after you get that first armor piece.

My conclusion: Adventures are great, but typically not for the gear sold by the adventure merchants. You get xp, you get coin, you get some filler augs, and you may even get some gear. If you're doing these from the 40s into the 60s, don't expect to get enough points to get any good gear until you've dinged several times first. Right now at 15 points a mission it's going very slowly. I can't remember how the points scale, but I know they come a good bit faster at higher levels. Until then these are still great for the other things, just not for the adventure points.

Edited, Nov 21st 2006 3:00pm by Merlaina