The Sleeper is Awakened

The Guild Conquest awakened the Sleeper for the first time and promptly got banned for doing it. Verant claims they did it by using an exploit. I'll leave it up to you to debate whether or not that is what happened. Here's the explanation they posted on their website: We were fighting the 4th warder (ventani) and had it down to 60% or so when kerafyrm spawned, and wiped us out. Kerafyrm then killed the 4th warder. Roughly 15 minutes laster, GM Valdelmar comes in and has this to say. [Tue Jun 05 00:37:10 2001] Valdelmar shouts, 'Everyone that is in this zone, has a corpse in this zone, or was involved in the invasion of this zone is receiving a warning for Exploitation.' Now this is where it gets good. When asked what exactly we exploited, here was the answer: [Tue Jun 05 00:44:50 2001] Valdelmar tells you, 'We witnessed your clerics below the bridge keeping the warders agro by complete heal so that the tanks could safely kill. That's exploitation' Now, anyone who plays the high EQ game or has a reasonable knowledge of EQ game dynamics knows that this completly IMPOSSIBLE to exploit. The mobs summon ability negates this exploit 100%. If the clerics are top on aggro list, they get summoned up from below the bridge, and killed nearly instantly. The mob was on ME (the warrior) the entire battle, besides when it decided it was mad at my clerics - which is when it killed them in no time flat. The full story, with screenshots, is at this link.

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Anyone read the EULA??
# Aug 24 2002 at 4:23 PM Rating: Default
Well if you bothered to read it then you would know it states clearly exploiting a bug is not allowed and can result in suspension/termination of your account. You agree to this everytime you load the software. You agree to this again everytime you hit the accept button after the software is loaded. If YOU can't follow the rules laid before YOU its YOUR own fault so stop blaming Verant for YOUR own problem that YOU created by not reading/following the License Agreement YOU agreed too.
RE: Anyone read the EULA??
# Sep 03 2002 at 8:04 PM Rating: Default
yeah you sound just like you work at Verant and if your Noob a$$ could comprehend that placing casters under a bridge to keep AoE off is a bug, then why is everytime you go on your little naggy raid can you get away with standing under his belly thats a so called (bug) you stupid f*cking Idiot this is why the world is in termoil everyone thinks they know whats best rather than looking at problem from all angles. ohh and just for the referance i beat your just mad about me finding out that you guys really do spank off all day. P

Gettin Rappedaily
LVL 60 Prisoner of Verant
Verant smells like arse!
# Jun 25 2002 at 7:22 AM Rating: Default
Dude! It all makes sense! Verant made the Sleeper, the hardest boss, they didn't want the Sleeper to be defeated so quickly after they made it! So instead they totally deny you guys that you guys killed the Sleeper fair and square and they don't like to be defeated by a toughie guild, so they just ban the guild, make up some bul**it exploit and its all over, The End For Us, They Win! Shall Osama bomb the **** out of them! Why world trade center the good place, Verant the bad is what you're aimin for!
Down with the BIG V
# May 26 2002 at 3:25 AM Rating: Default
**** that was a little much huh?
Ohh well those *******'s deserve it


Getting Rapeddaly
LVL 60 Prisoner of Verant
Down with the BIG V
# May 26 2002 at 3:16 AM Rating: Default
Here it is People Verant and all there little GM'S sit back and watch us sqwirm in a large room and get there jollys off. Pesonaly i think we should all just bend Verant over like the little Bit*h's they are and Gang Bang the **** out of there ****'s and get our 10 dollars a month back.
Constantly telling us this bullsh*t about how this doesn't work and that is broke FACE IT u fu*ked up boys Fix the **** game and stop blaming the player's for your mistake's. If the Sleeper can be killed more power to who ever does it, I just don't see why they make a Mob in the game if they dont want us to kill it, It's like giving me a gun to shoot your little ***** ***'es and no bullets. Better yet give me a good T-staff and ill beat the **** out of u like your daddy did then stick it up your *** like u do us with this thats cheating this that Blah Blah Blah let me catch your *** out ill show a *** beating like your stupid mobs give us reach around and ***** smack u from behind a wall. It's a fact these guys sit around all day watching us **** up and then give us **** about it between the designated Spanking off time of the day when they all take a break and beat the old Slime coated Harpoon (you know what i'm talking about). It's all a conspiracy for them to get there fun watching ppl trying to play a ****** up game that is completly impossible to beat,and every time someone comes close the call it cheating and blame it on a glitch in there crappy program HERE IT IS U ****** UP VERANT NOT US FIX IT AND LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!
Verant
# Apr 23 2002 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
60 posts
Verant created a great game but sometimes they miss the boat. The beautiful thing about an online game versus an RPG game is that there is no debate about the rules or the intent of the rules. The game either permits it or it doesn’t permit it. There is no such thing as an exploit and Verant is being lazy and/or foolish.

Everything in the game is an exploit. I try to get my charisma up so that I can exploit more money from vendors. I try to get better weapons so that I can exploit more MOBs.

If there is a problem with the game and players can exploit in ways that are not intended, fix the game.
geforce 4 video cards?
# Apr 15 2002 at 9:09 PM Rating: Default
i heard from a little bird that sony is also making a deal with nvida ,just as they did with intel and p4s ,has anyone got any info about if its worth the investment
What a load!
# Apr 07 2002 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
The bottom line is that if it is allowed by the software, then it's fair. If Verant doesn't want it done that way then they should "fix" the software.

However, I'm not suprised, I've been very unstatisfied with the level of support the GM's provide. Especially for problems caused by glitchy software (Anyone ever had the server crash while you were on the boat? My friend did.)
bs
# Mar 18 2002 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
This is bull i mean all they did was make a strategy..andf aparently it was a smarter1 than the gm's thought of so they got ************** to me the ***** up all the time w/pathing errors mobs hitin u thru wall and then disaperin only to beat u down 10 min later when your afk...said it once ill say it agian ...this is what happens when u give nerd's power!!!!
Sleeper
# Feb 20 2002 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
Hmmm exploits ?? For those of you who played RP
games for quite awhile you remember such silliness
as rules that wprked out so that going by them a
PC could carry more than a horse and go farther
or just where did u carry that 10 foot pole you
are using to check the ceiling?? How are you
fighting and carrying a heavy crossbow and a 50"
coil of rope and using a 2 hand sword at the same
time?? anyways verant appears to be full of people
in dire need of some counseling. The game was always about having fun that was the point if things looked bad for the party a good GM worked it out somehow and the party lived to fight another day if the GM was a ******** and killed you all time and again yo told them to **** off and left them sitting at an empty table looking
at their books and dice) So VI smarten the **** up
you bunch of self absorbed control freaks we are paying customers or you will find yourselves sitting with a beautiful adventure world that no one wants to play in. No i never used an NPC to go
take a look in the cave around the corner or open
a closed container try a potion on touch the shiny red button P if you beleive that I got a bunch of stuff i wanna sell you in EC ) Cheers at
conquest exploit or not I was not there cant say
When mobs take fall and drowning damage then we can talk about player abuses of ****** programming
IMNHO If you killed something its dead you win
and in all my time on this earth i have never seen
anything outside of a sporting event that resembled a "fair fight" the object is to leave the enemy dead or incapicitated not follow some ******* silly rules> anyways its late am tired and kindly forgive the punctuation and spelling errors hookd on fonix owes me a refund


test
# Jan 18 2002 at 2:28 PM Rating: Default
o
Relax . . . .
# Dec 04 2001 at 1:35 PM Rating: Default
The inception of EQ was years ago, and up until then internet gaming was in an "infintile" stage. Verant did what nobody else could do at the time, which is make a completly evolving, living world in which to emerse ourselves in. I challenge any of you do accomplish such a task. And when you do, I hope your endevours are as successful as Verant's. 350,000 ppl (est) are currently subscribed. Did Verant ever plan for such success? Doubt it! Sooner or later there's gonna be problems. And you guys flame Verant. Try calling Nintendo to fix the bug that let's Mario jump on the same turtle shell and get 200 extra lives. You'll get put on hold for the rest of your life. Let Verant go.....at least they designed a game that is fixable.....








Caelestes Dashiznit
50th Wizard of Raised by Prophecy
Drinal
VERANT SUCKS
# Oct 20 2001 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
It shows how verant wants to control the game, NOT FUN ANYMORE. You might want to come to DAOC, I have a lvl 60 necro on eq, heh, willing to give that up to play with a game that has some sincere and caring people developing it. It shows here that Verant is a control fanatic. Common sense tells you that if the clerics are healing and the warriors are doing the damage, then they have the highest aggro. However, it also shows that the ones that were doing this actually had a strategy in making this happen. I salute the people that came up with a strategy to overcome this. As for Verant, you will lose more and more people every day. Just keep this bs up and I can see you losing even faster. I personally will enjoy your downfall. I might even "..ss on your grave. Enjoy fellow questers, may you make verant fall into the abyss
what VI wants
# Sep 06 2001 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
maybe they want just 80 warriors and 80 clerics to beat it up.
It's Broke so fix it
# Aug 29 2001 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
21 posts
If what is posted is correct then VI need to address the geometry issue, I myself have experienced such things, standing up stairs in the tower on the bridge in N Karana that leads to S Karana, getting hit by mobs that are on the ground floor and spinning round thinking "what the **** is hitting me", but thats ok to VI, but we do the same and level the playing field and you get banned?. Sorry but that is just not fair.
If Verant know of bugs, bugs which have been in place for a LONG time then they should shut up whining, either fix it or forget it, but dont blame players for the games faults. On closing I wonder how many programmers verant sacked for these bugs getting through and allowing them to remain in game? less or more than the players they banned??

Avindral Soulblade
Paladin 35 Summers
Lan'ys

Full support to Conquest exploiting or not
No suprise here
# Aug 07 2001 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
Heh, as an enchanter I can vouch that just about any 50+ mobs (besides a few exeptions like in PoM) will summon you if on top of aggro list. Verant is up to their bullshi.t (oops, did I add a period in there) as usual.



"Verants solution to the problem; nerf it to ****!"

"I still agree that the biggest taunt in the game is an enchanter sittin down."

Kaizel Mezzaire
50th Enchanter of Zebuxoruk

Moulin Rouge (10 bucks Verant will get on me about my name for that, but while their motto is nerf it, my motto is get around it. "Excuse me but moulin rouge means Red Windmill in french, if it is any way relating to this 'show' your talking about it's purely coincidental")
23rd Bard of Zebuxoruk
Hmmmmm.
# Aug 23 2001 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Sacrificial Lamb
*****
16,160 posts
It would seem that Verant was upset that their supermonster was defeated a bit more easily than they wished for it to be. In a huff they arbitrarily decided to whack everyone involved in the action. Kinda like a kid who doesn't like the way a game is going and so he tells everyone he is taking his ball and going home.
Poor sports...

--Pusbag Infection, King and High Priest of the Trolls
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Winner of Last(tm) VIII!

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"Totem is the personification of whiskey soaked evil" --Annabelle

"You're special, pumpkin, but not speshuler than the 'Bama Black Snake" --AtomicFlea
tactics now bannable?
# Jul 28 2001 at 5:19 AM Rating: Good
Well, seeying as how appherently everyday tactics are now bannable, ill bet verant will be making alot of changes. Can't use taunt anymore, seeying as how that exploits the monsters right to kill your casters and then your party. No more healing spells, that exploits game rules by giving back HPs the monster rightfully took away. I mean that is a bit exagerated, but going by what ive read at the conquest site soon all druids will be banned for kiting.
OMG!
# Jul 23 2001 at 10:23 PM Rating: Default
FKing mobs can hit through walls, ceilings... you name it, cast spells from other side of the zone on you! and when players play thier game they get banned????? WTF!!!!!!
HAHA
# Jul 23 2001 at 10:20 PM Rating: Default
For me there is no such thing as a *game exploit* it is nothing more than a poor game design. Players using something that V don't bother to fix and get banned? that's a piece of crap. Everyone know that the Z-axis doesn't work properly in EQ, you can /corpse bodies from below standing high above...blah blah... V knows it well, do they bother to fix it? **** NO! They are too busy nerfing everything that DOES work properly. This is crap.
what i heard
# Jul 20 2001 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
I heard that Verant was not finished with the zone and what would happen if all the warders were killed but put it out to just fix it later ....if this is so then they probably needed more time to fix the area and shouls have kept people locked out of the zone ...anyhow If they had let them wake the Sleeper themselves they would have died anyways.

PS I like the idea of a Mob that you cant kill

47 newbie monk on Inno server
motive?
# Jul 11 2001 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
*
59 posts
first of all, i don't know anybody in conquest or anybody at verant/sony, and i've only been playing since december (though i know people who've played since the beginning). from a distance, this looks a lot like two wrongs not making a right.

sounds like conquest was taking advantage of a bug or two, and the response from verant was excessive. now, anybody who has ever had a beef with verant or sony is screaming about "the evil corporate monster".

the z coordinate bug is something many of us have experienced in various zones, but usually it's the mob that exploits it (as a newbie in misty thicket, i stood on top of a tower and was attacked by a bixie who was below me on the ground, untouchable to me). if conquest figured out how to make it work in their favor, good for them. but it is exploiting a bug. as for the land/water bug, again if conquest figured out a way to attack from one into the other without getting hit back, good for them. but it is exploiting a bug. (it's not the same as fleeing the water to escape death, it's more like fishing with dynamite...very unsportsmanlike).

on conquest's behalf, the GM could easily have stepped in and warned them that they were breaking the rules instead of watching silently and accumulating evidence in order to ban players.

but a query to all the conspiracy theorists who beleive that "verant doesn't want it's game beaten": please explain the motive.

would any of us have stopped playing (and paying) when we heard the sleeper had been beaten? doubtful. everyone in the game cheers when an unconquered mob gets conquered (though i suppose there is some jealousy between the super-guilds). why would they risk all the negative feedback they knew they would have to endure? so a couple of programmers can boast about the "unbeatable Everquest"? not likely.

why would they spend money to pay programmers to put features into a game and then not want anyone to see them?

we all love to hate the faceless corporate giant, but in this case, what is the motive for this "evil"?

imho,
nimbledigits

ps everyone who is of the "well, verant allowed the bug to be in the game, so it's their own fault" are missing the point entirely. the rules state that exploiting a bug can result in banning. end of story.
____________________________
Nimbledigits Throatslitter
Leatherfoot Raider of the 20th Shadow
Mith Marr
Exploitation
# Jun 12 2001 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
To make money in this world, you need a gimmick. Also, you need to exploit the people who are customers, and/or the people that work for you.

As fun as EQ is, it's a business. By making it take forever to go up in levels or requiring lots of people to do anything, Verant protects its cash flow. Introducing new zones, mobs, items, and quests are all ways to keep players into the game.

Anyone ever see the bumper sticker that reads, "Don't steal, the government hates competition" ? This situation reminds me of that sticker. Verant doesn't want any player exploitation of the game because it undermines their own exploitation.

As a player, I could care less what uber guilds do or what they do first. That does nothing to hamper the "roleplaying" aspect of my game. NPCs that give the same responses over and over again and mobs that "exploit" their ability to hit me from the ceiling and floor without my being able to hit back do more to lessen my enjoyment of the "roleplaying" aspect of the game. The same with broken spawns. Yet there is no one to ban when the game works badly or when there are server issues that lead to frequent disconnects for many customers.

The members of Conquest are paying customers. They should be thanked for finding the bug and offered jobs as testers. Verant has no one to blame but themselves for this fiasco. If the zone was so drastically bugged in a way that such major mobs could be killed with relative ease, then the zone should not have been released. If the main reason Conquest was doing this was for their own ego, then it's Verant's own doing as well. They made the game geared towards rewarding uber guilds. And most uber guilds are bound to get uber greedy and uber arrogant. (Aren't most large corporations this way? *cough* Sony *cough*)

Since this is a place for opinions, there's mine. As long as I continue to enjoy the game, and am a sucker for this gimmick, I'll keep playing and paying.


To Do! or not to do! that is the question!
# Jun 12 2001 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
47 posts
I will say this, if you read your service agreement your one up on me;) But ultimately if you choose one exploit or another, your die has been cast, and you have to live with the outcome. So, to those out there that come upon the choice to take part in an exploit, just remember that that foot from "Monty Pythons Flying Circus" can sure enough, squish ya;) Personally, I would take the time to do things right, and if you die, at least you can say! "hey, you can't ban me! er, but can ya pull my body from the dragons feet!

And now for something completely different!
____________________________
For the Good of the Realms!
Leave EQ...WHY?
# Jun 11 2001 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
All I can say is this. You are unhappy...LEAVE. Although I agree with some of your statements...to say that they "control" our lives is NUTS! This is a game...and unless YOU WERE THERE...you can only guess what REALLY happened. Unless you have tried similiar tactics yourself. Do you really think that the END ALL of MOBS should be defeatable? WHY? There needs to be that unspeakable evil...the thing that parents all over Norrath tell there kids about to keep them from being bad little boys and girls.

I think you guys have seen CONSPIRACY THEORY a few too many times.

Oh...and just another quick question...why all the anon's?!?!? Hmmm.....make a statement...stand behind it...

GJAKAR SELORNE
Paladin of 23 seasons
Leave EQ...WHY?
# Jun 11 2001 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
/rude verant
# Jun 10 2001 at 10:53 AM Rating: Default
its such a shame that verant can claim outright lies like that to be true. here is a list of possible things that may have occured that day:
1. Verant gets scared when conquest is threatening to kill the 4th warder and spawn the sleeper because the zone is not yet finished and their program is buggy, so they spawn kerafym(human model, so obviously their program IS buggy) right there to wipe out conquest and the warder....obviously not an appropriate way to handle the situation on verant's part
2.When the 4th warder gets down to 60%, it spawns kerafym, and verant had him beefed up to be unkillable while they are attempting to fix the coding in sleeper's tome...when people start taking screenshots of the "sleeper" being a human model, which is obviously messed up and proves the zone is not completely finished, they come in and make claims about conquest using exploits to kill the warder and start banning them so that as few people as possible will learn of the warder(this didn't work apparently, because the contraversy has made many people go to conquest's boards and see the screenshots)
3.Conquest actually did 'sploit(which is very unlikely, seeing as how it is IMPOSSIBLE to nullify a mob's ability to summon, and it is not likely that you could find a certain spot where you could stand there and a mob could not hit you.)
well, thats just what i put together from the facts i have heard about this incident. if anyone from conquest is reading this, i feel really sorry for ya and you guys must rock if you have the force to get the 4th warder down to even 60% i hope you guys are able to prove that verant was lying and that you will have success in the future. =)
p.s. verant blows goats

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