Changes to AA Experience

Earlier this week EverQuest Designer Nodyin made a post on SOE's forums about upcoming changes to the way AA experience is gained:

One of the most common topics of discussion on these boards has to do with AAs - gaining them, using them and how many you "need" to be viable in a group or raid setting. As time passes and expansions are released the total number of AAs that are available to each class grows, as does the number of AAs that are considered "core" by each class. Anyone who has played EverQuest for very long can realize how important a few hundred well-spent AA can be for any player of sufficient level. As great as the AA system is, however, it presents an ever growing barrier to new players or current players who might like to try a new class for a different experience or perspective. The hill, to put it simply, is simply too high to climb for many people.
 
To address this we're going to introduce the same type of experience scaling in the AA system that exists with levels. Just like level 1 is a lot easier to get than level 80 is we're going to change how AA experience works so that the first AAs you earn will come faster than the last AA you earn to reach the cap. This change should make it a lot easier for players climbing the levels to gain key AAs and advance to the point that they can interact with friends (new or old) that have more established characters.
 
What we've done is put together a very flexible, data-driven system that we can adjust as expansions are released or in response to changing circumstances. The way the system works is that we'll be able to create point ranges (with a minimum number of AAs earned and a maximum number) that will have a multiplier assigned to it. So you'll get the amount of experience you would have gotten prior to this change, but then that experience is increased by this multiplier.
 
So for AA #XYZ your multiplier might be 2.0. Before the change you would have gotten 500 experience. After the change it would be 500 x 2, or 1000 experience. Simple, right?
 
The higher you go in AA totals the lower the multiplier will be until eventually it will reach the 1.0 mark and AA experience will return to "normal". AA experience is already normalized by level to be equal to the same number of even-con kills no matter what your level is and this system will work with that. No matter where you are in terms of level you'll see the same bonus based on your AA count.
 
Based on the data we collected a few months ago and looking at where we're putting the 1.0 mark the vast majority of players will see a boost in the rate that they earn AAs with those at the low end of the AA count seeing the largest boost. As I mentioned above we're able to nimbly change the shape of the curve and as we release new expansions that push forward the total number of AAs that exist we will be changing the shape of the curve, including the point where AA experience returns to normal. So we'll be attempting to continue to support new players and returning veterans going forward with the AA system.

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SoE sucks
# Mar 11 2008 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree absolutely with all ppl who think this is bad. SoE is making everquest a stupid game. STUPIDS things like faction (who in the **** find funny make the same dam quest 1 000 000 to get a dam faction) make the game experience horrible. Level cap increase: so the only way to keep people interested on game is increase lvl cap? that is a LACK of imagination and only proves that simply SoE sucks. Nerfed tradeskill items: The platinum sellers must be very happy with SoE due they are getting alot of $$, SoE is sponsor of that people? ...... SAD !

PD: basicxp is SoE employee?

Edited, Mar 11th 2008 5:41pm by edelacruz
SoE sucks
# Mar 13 2008 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I disagree.

Everyone has something that keeps them coming back to EQ, and its very difficult for sony to keep all these area's interesting; tradeskills, quests, exploration, progression/keys, obtaining AAs, raiding for the best gear etc, etc. The trouble has been that so much attention has been given to keeping the game interesting for the current users, that EQ became very hard for new subscribers to break into. I know that 5 years ago i could easily find newbs to help out, whereas now its probably ben a year since I've seen a genuine newbie.

So Sony introduced the tutorial. Many disliked the tutorial for how commercial and idiot-proof it appeared. Well it wasn't designed for you, it was to encourage new players.

With numbers still migrating away from EQ, they came up with shrouds. This wasn't particularly successful by most accounts, but it attempted to bridge the gap between the newcomers and long-time players.

The change to AA experience helps reduce the gap between the new and old players, whilst still maintaining some division to keep the old players happy. Imagine coming into this game now, and trying to catch up to the players who've had years to collect AAs. Even if you played 24/7 it'd take you years to become comparable.

The way AAs will be earned is very similar to how regular exp/levels currently works. Noone complains that its easier to level from lvl 1 to 2 than it is to go from 79 to 80. About a year ago I power-leveled my step son to lvl 50 in a day, and yet it took my ranger over 2 years to reach that level from when I first started. I'm proud to have done it the old way, despite the 'wasted' time. Likewise there's pride in having accumulated all our AAs the hard way too.

Sony has been very clever in increasing the cap for the higher-end players, whilst simultaneously making it easier for the low-end to catch up to some mid-way point. This has been true of almost every aspect of EQ (tradeskills, levels, flagging....the only exception I can think of is faction). It's an entirely necessary characteristic of the game. Without extending the caps, the high-end get bored. Without making the catch-up easier on the low-end, newbies/lowies/casuals give up trying.

In short, I agree it's frustrating, but I'd rather be an average player among a million players, than a great player all by myself.
SoE sucks
# Mar 12 2008 at 12:42 PM Rating: Default
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208 posts
OK I have read most of thease comments, some are well though out otheres are just angry comments by hardcore raiders. I have many alts I have 5+ 75s. I do some pretty hardcore raids. My main has 1200 AAs and i AM NOT ANGRY SOE IS DOING THIS! It may not affect me as much as someone who has 2000 AAs or someone who has 2 AAs. But my alts who have 300-400 are happy. I think SoE is doing a goodjob to make people happy.

Hardcore raiders make up about 20% of the games players. SoE could just stop pushing out expansions, stop level increases. Then the hardcore raiders would leave, but then SoE could just sit around collecting the monthly subscription fee for many years to come. BUT there not, they have an expansion every year, have fableds every year, and do care about the player base. Hardcore raiders are just angry that it doesnt help them. WELL I got news for you, your not getting less AA exp per kill if you got 2000 AAs.

If this update gave everyone over 1700AAs 5x the normal EXP, you'd have hardcore raiders in here cheering and posting half **** coments how they "deserve" it or how "they need it to progress". Once again this update will effect MOST people, even if your a hardcore raiding guild chances are that some in your guild will be effcted for the better by this update.
Bleh
# Mar 01 2008 at 4:01 AM Rating: Decent
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29 posts
This game doesn't anywhere near resemble the addictive game I once played called 'EverQuest'.

This game... I don't even know what it is, but it **** sure is not EverQuest. It's NoQuest, EverBox, LameQuest, EverTheSame, EverLFG, TextQuest... But it's not EverQuest. And this new game is nowhere near as good as other games now.

EverQuest, now THAT was a game. It was exciting and fresh. It had real people playing. I know it's hard to believe, but we even talked to each other when we played! There were GMs and events, even groups of 6 different people! You could zone within 10 minutes. We could see every zone we paid for. Expansions that gave us something we didn't already have and didn't ignore or disrupt what we already had. Little things we took for granted. Best of all, it was interesting.

I quit playing 18 months ago, but I check patch notes every now and then praying that something will entice me back to the Norrath I enjoyed, that someone would come to their senses.

What I saw was Trading Cards that you can't even put between the spokes of a bicycle wheel. AAs passed out like penny-candy. Warriors who heal.

What I did not see was something fascinating enough to pay for, something that I hadn't already done years ago.

What a tremendous waste of a great idea. This game has completely devolved into Super Mario XXIII, where everyone is exactly the same and everyone gets the same coins as they fail to realize the new screens look exactly like the old screens of years gone by. It has been painful to watch as people continue to **** away real money on a game that doesn't even stay real to itself.
Bleh
# Mar 01 2008 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
You're a moron. Did you even play everquest before? You couldn't get a group at all before the changes. Classes that couldn't solo worth **** were solo'n cause xp sucked so bad in a group. It has become a playable game. But perhaps **** heads like you shouldn't be playing games. Video games are boring, you don't need em. Wouldn't you perfer extreme sports? Like perhaps jumping out of a plane without the parachute. Nice exciting stuff to keep your mind occupied.
Bleh
# Mar 07 2008 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Quote:
Wouldn't you perfer extreme sports? Like perhaps jumping out of a plane without the parachute. Nice exciting stuff to keep your mind occupied.


LOL
SoE... WTF?
# Feb 29 2008 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
This is by far the most rediculas **** i have seen come from Everquest. I have busted my **** grinding aa's on my main and earned every single on of the 585 he has. Now these newblets can come in and in 1/4th the time get to the same amount as i have without having to do nearly as much work as I have?? WTF.. I mean for my alts this might be good but i planned on doing the same hard grinding with them that i have with my main. but still WTF
SoE... WTF?
# Mar 01 2008 at 1:11 PM Rating: Default
I agree with ya, it does kind of suck. But it aint so bad when ya think about it. Lets say there are 5 top guilds. You are in number 6. The top 5 guilds get to pick their tanks. Even if the 1k aa tank is a complete **** hat, it will take him a long time to get thru all 5 guilds and he prolly wont be coming back to you when he's thru with them all.

Sooo, all your tanks have less than 50 aa's and they are not very motivated to work on them to begin with. But they are nice people. You'ld rather have a good spirited person than an elitist drama queen in your guild. Get them some quick easy gear and some AA's and you're ready to raid.

Another advantage would be that instead you have the multiboxers that don't like to multibox so much with the crappy 10 aa tanks. They get their tank to 285 quickly and you gotta gimp tank in a pinch.
What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 26 2008 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts
...
I cant have nothin
# Feb 25 2008 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
31 posts
So to sum up what you said in (changes in aa exp) we are going to give everyones alt 250 aa and mains get nothing? LoL. Just another way to take away one of the few things that allows you to make your character unique. Thats what makes a game great not a bunch of lev 80 toons who are all the same ability wise with a different color shirt on. Remember it took 64 hours to ding 9 aa solo as a necro in ME at 59?

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 11:38pm by moleface

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 11:41pm by moleface
When?
# Feb 22 2008 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Since I haven't seen a posting on it, When is this great thing going to go into effect.

I have read over several of the postings and seems that the only ones that are complaining are the ones that seem to feel threatened for whatever reason. (really don't see why they would feel this way.)

I have 16 toons. I take them out. Play with other guildies that can't find a group and we have a good time. However, there is my main. I was pressured into getting her to lvl 75 and now lack the aa's to be as good as most other lvl 75 players that I run across. So would this be such a sin to have to catch me up a bit or anyone else? No really don't see that it would.

Now as for bringing in new players. Instead of advertising WoW all the time on cable, would it not be wise to advertise EQ some?.. Here is something worth complaining about.
About time something for the middle levels!
# Feb 20 2008 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
Everything in EQ is about the highend players. It's nice to see something for the middle level players. all 8 of my toons are mid 50 levels. I started them all about the same time and play one till he levels and move to the next. I have NO main. When my toons hit 55 I started working on my AA's. (Moved my exp to AA slide to 50%) Theres a lot of cool/good AA items out there for 55. When I reach my "fill" I'll do it again at 59. Sure I don't have a cool level 80 toon with all the bells and whistles. I do have 8 toons I know VERY well with most stats maxed out.

MOST of all I'm having FUN!!!!
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Remove the entire AA system
# Feb 20 2008 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
The entire AA system should be scrapped, basically we are given sub standard and broken characters to start with, and then have to grind AA's to fix them.

Every single AA in the game now, can be absorbed into the character as standard, save say trade skill ones, these could be, god forbid "quested" as could a lot of the other AA's, for example all the innate skills, see invis, enduring breath etc etc.

Lets not lose sight of why AA's were introduced in the first place ( don't sue me if its entirely wrong) was to stop people leaving the game as they had reached the 'End Game' i.e. max level and seen the last mob in present expansion. It then remained in the game as another means to absorb surplus experience.

So what could we do about the experience that would be 'lost' if we had no AA to plough it into? Well, say at 90% into max lvl our experience starts going into a reservoir. This reservoir of experience could then be used for some really nice desirable items or rewards. Items that are not cheap to buy but are well worth it, say a 'winged horse' with a restricted 3D movement, or replace the horse with Dragon etc. Another example for this reservoir would be the possibility of buying faction with it from certain NPC's for RKIII spells. Or the ultimate sacrifice, if you don't spend any of your reservoir by the time a new level increasing expansion comes out, you can buy levels with it. I'm sure readers could think of other uses for it.

I can't see any detriment to this idea and it would make it a lot easier for everyone concerned in becoming more viable in groups, raids, guilds etc. I'm confident that new players would remain in the game longer even attract new and old alike back to the game, if they knew that there was no unreachable AA grind waiting for them.

Respectfully

Tree.
more nonsense
# Feb 19 2008 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
more totally irelevant nonsense sped time fixing things that are actually broken for a change like the entire raid system
AAs
# Feb 19 2008 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
I have been playing for over 7 years [with a 2-year break], and I am a casual player at best[ 2 - 3 hours a night, 4 nights a week]. My main is a 55 wizard and I have kept her at about the same level while I grind AAs. I have done so for over a year, and I do not mind the time I have spent doing so - I can see the benefits from a lot of the 135 AAs I have earned and spent. This comes as welcome news to me. My main toon is AAing while I LEARN my class skills, bolster my Leadership AAs, and learn which AAs have the most impact on playability, survivability, and group dynamics. I can understand why some people are hot under the collar, having worked at earning a mere 135 AAs, I can understand the time commitment that goes into 1500+ AAs. I think that making a minimum # of AA points spent (say, 1500 for example) should be a requirement for several of the higher-end AAs, making those who have been working hard at it the "elite", and able to purchase such. The rest of us "casual" players can earn/spend those AAs we need to interact well with groups, and then go on to concentrating on leveling. Just my 2 sp [inflation, you know].

Sunstorm 55 Wizard
FranklinMichael 52 warrior
Ogerlorde 25 Shadowknight
Do you have skills?
# Feb 19 2008 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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127 posts
I'm not interested in how the person in my group got the gear they use or how long it took them to get to the lvl there at or how many aa's they have.
What matters most to me is that they have skills. Then secondly if they are fun/enjoyable to group with.
I dont care if they just got the toon from a friend who quit EQ or whatever.
As long as they do there job and contribute in a positive way to the group, the second part is just the gravy.

skills ftw.
AAs + Fun + perspective
# Feb 19 2008 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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83 posts
I've been a casual player since 6 months after EQ went live. I don't belong to any guilds in spite of many offers, because my schedule just doesn't allow me to set aside large blocks of time for raids.

I don't have any problem with the revamp of the AA system. The thing a lot of hardcore gamers seem to forget is that this is a GAME, not a second, unpaid, career. If this was a real job for which you were being paid, I could understand being upset that after putting in long hours, working hard, and playing by the rules, your company's management suddenly started advancing new hires into positions comparable to your own, and paying them at the same rate.

BUT, this is a GAME. It is supposed to be fun. It is played for enjoyment. The sum total of a lot of these complaints about the revamp seems to be "I don't want someone to have more fun than I'm having," or "I had to work harder to have fun than the new people." I'm somewhat surprised that these comments don't usually start out with the phrase "When I was your age..."

In my experience, games with a lot of tedium are not enjoyable. I paused my Paladin at level 62 for almost a year to solo grind out xp. This was extremely tedious. Given the limited places a Paladin can solo, I got very tired of doing the same things over and over. My ego does not require that somebody else go through the same monotonous process.

My understanding is that EQ is intended to be a cooperative, not competitive, game. Why should I be upset that someone else is having fun?
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STOP
# Feb 18 2008 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
STOP making the game easier. EQ is in part what it is today because it is more difficult to advance and get to the high end content.

STOP "welfare-izing" the game by giving away things to people who have not earned it. So what if you have a level 80 toon....make another, but earn your way there. This will keep the lower level zones at least somewhat useful. No one uses them now because your uber guilds have level 1 characters leveling up in friggin' Icefall or something by powerlevelling.

STOP making it so easy for the plat sellers/levelling sellers to do what makes them money. Make them earn it.



More generice STOPS....
Stop the spammers, quit giving away free accounts
Find a way to end powerlevelling...nothing worse than going to a level 70 zone and see three level 80 morons powerlevelling a level 50 and monopolizing almost every freakin MOB in the zone..(See Nobles Causeway now)
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STOP
# Feb 20 2008 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
"three level 80 morons powerlevelling a level 50 and monopolizing almost every freakin MOB in the zone"

WELL, If you want to solo something and all the mobs are dead, then obviously someone killed them. Go look for a mob that is still alive and is not in a fight with some other ppl.

NC is a large zone, there are dozens of camp spots there and a 4-toon group cant keep em all dead.

ALSO, If you need a drop of something, I'm SURE that the 4-team would be happy to let you loot anything you want, since they prob could care less about loot. They are only after exp. Just give them a tell and ask if you can loot stuff. Some times they arent even bothering to check corpses. So when you do it you get all the coins plus all the loots.

I would have been happy if there were others in NC when I was trying to find the 2.0 drop I needed from there. I was just slaughtering everything that moved for that one chaos drop. In my case I could care less about the exp and the loots and only wanted the bard item which is worthless to every other class.

One more thing. Just because somebody pays sony for a new account and starts a new toon to fill a role in their 3 or 4 box team, doesnt mean that they are Morons. It just means they are not going to have that 4th toon LFG, but instead are going to level it up themselves to the level of the rest of the team.

Hey, its a free country man.
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STOP
# Feb 21 2008 at 11:17 AM Rating: Default
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532 posts
"Hey, its a free country man."

Shut the **** up idiot. It's an online game with its own rules that YOU happen to agree with. Don't throw around your hippy BS because it happens to follow your own stupid agenda. The fact is that they are continually f**king up EQ beyond the point at which I stopped playing. I couldn't take the fact that they were slowed murdering every old zone with their idiot graphics, if I was still there for this **** now giving people free exp for nothing I definately would have been gone.

This game is for sure not run by one person who is still in power that made the original game. There is no lingering talent that knows how to keep this game inline with what assuredly 200k+ people who have left want that have played for years. It's just a game to raid, **** around meaninglessly, then raid some more and ALL raid items are devalued constantly by the fact that any guild anywhere can get any item they want just by getting the notion to raid. There are no spawn times to keep track of now, no skill at getting assembled at a moment's notice to take down a wandering boss in a real static zone, the best you can hope for is the time it takes for the idiot instance timers to let you in again.
All you do is raid for the sake of raiding and you're not even progressing your character because there is NOTHING to do with your character after the raid except go get more items to raid again. I cannot wait to see the last EQ server die...

Codeguru
STOP
# Mar 01 2008 at 11:06 AM Rating: Default
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97 posts
Yeah.. i think Ill agree with K on this one.. all the posts are about the game.. but you come in and flame someone because of thier opinion... thats pretty sad bro.

Edited, Mar 1st 2008 2:22pm by jagweir
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STOP
# Feb 26 2008 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts
Codeguru, you've shown yourself as the idiot and with an attitude like yours, EQ is a better place without you. Thank you for leaving.

Everquest has always been about change and flux. People complain when developers don't do enough, then they complain when they do too much. The added experience bonus for AAs will make allot of people happy. The only ones that seem to be unhappy are the people that already HAVE those AAs. It's a game... Getting those AAs was supposed to be FUN. If you didn't have fun getting them, then why did you do it? If anything, feel bad for the people that will miss out on all the FUN of getting those AAs the way you did instead of complaining.
STOP
# Feb 29 2008 at 12:45 PM Rating: Excellent
New graphics on old zones is an attempt to spruce things up a bit like redecorating your house. Everyone gets a replacement for their old car, and even if you get the same make/model it will still be a different car in some ways.

The change to make a lot of guild progression raid events be instanced, was well thought out and even though some events are "at a moments notice", it is soooo much nicer to have a scheduled time each day we raid where we can plan on an event ahead of time, talk about the event, gather and go do that event when we are ready. Years ago, the guilds that could 'control' a spawn could prevent other guilds from progressing and it became a huge source of frustration. Do you remember all the tiff about (Velious) TOV mobs? especially NTOV. Huge arguments back in the day.
I rather like that a guild doesnt have to always do things on a moments notice but can plan when to have fun without interference from griefers and know that you are not missing out on some big event just because you were not on when that 'moments notice' was sent out.

If 200k ppl left it was because they lost interest, lost play time ability, or found something in all the other new online games that was more to their taste. If you want to talk about ppl leaving, then talk about Star Wars Galaxies. Those devs actually deleted ppl's classes and made repeated huge huge changes in basic game mechanics and literally 'forced' players to quit who actually wanted to stay and play. Here in EQ the devs are working with ppl and working to keep the eq world alive and kicking.

True some ppl raid for the sake of raiding, but who are we to say there is something inherently wrong with that? There are sooo many group quests out there, and many are required for a guild to advance, that literally no one is allowed to 'only' raid. With the new tradeskills with the SOF expansion, ppl can gear up with great stuff without ever raiding at all. A lot of ppl are doing tradeskills judging by how fast the ore and stuff sells on my trader. Many of the lvl 65 drops from Dragonscale Hills are very common in bazaar for very few plat.
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STOP
# Feb 19 2008 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
i think this is a good idea if say the bonus stops at like 1500ish aa's then goes back to normal the game i feel will be bettered for it , i have been around for 5 years and dont really care if someone thats been here for 1 year has the same amount of aa's me ( hopefully he spent them wisely) .
has for ubar raiding guilds they really make up like 20% of the game players
and some require totaly stupid things of there members ( most of us 80%ers work for a living) now before you start bashing i have been in a raiding guild before ( been there done that got the bazu stone) and i have earned every flag and aa i have . it wouldnt effect me one bit if sony gave everybody 1000 aa's
it wouldnt effect my game paly one bit.... i mean really does it matter every time sony changes somthing the fourms are full of this whinning . go get aa job, life whatever and get over it ...... well got to pay the bills laters.....
STOP
# Mar 01 2008 at 11:21 AM Rating: Default
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97 posts
thanks for stating my thoughts... "it doesn't affect my gameplay"

Whether I agree or disagree with sony really doesnt matter...sure I think they should spend alot more money on revamping thier advertising and maybe throw out some new campaigns making an old game look and smell new. They forget, but alot of the WoW people are getting bored with content too. sheesh... that all EQ has now days....content... you could fill a house with the content.

So much so that sometimes when you log on dont you need a good 10-20 mins to figure out what to do for that particular session?.. When people in EQ say they are bored, most of the time they are only bored because theyve been weighing all the different directions they can go in. Name a SINGLE aspect of EQ, one single area..like trades or quests..or raiding... or chatting.. or the cardgame, or farming, or faction grinding, or countless other.... and you can find yourself hours deep in subsets of content...
EQ is fun...if it were perfect it would be overcrowded....

If you feel the need to flame me then feel free... just dont be ignorant about it.
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Defying Fate of Povar
AA
# Feb 18 2008 at 8:29 AM Rating: Decent
8 posts
i have 3 accounts and remember how it took me the same amount of exp to get level 51 as it took to get an aa at level 51. So my wiz is a little peev'd at not having the easy path to 200 aa's, but ALL my other chars are breathing a sigh of relief, knowing i wont have to spend 3 years IRL just to earn enough AA's to feel comfortable enough to progress to level 70. Another solution - STOP MAKIN NEW AA"S and return to character class abilities, BASED ON LEVELING! return class integrity, ie you must have a necromancer in group to summon your corpse ANYWHERE, you must have a wizard in your group to use portals, a druid in the group to empower any use of sow, a warrior who's leadership scores should add enough to the attack and defensive potential of all party members to make the differance between sucess and failure on missions, IMO the biggest problem soe has is developers who dont play the game and therefore either have 0 respect for class integrity,and/or a clue on keeping game continuity, I know of 4 coders - only 1 plays everquest. Case's in point - killing PvP servers by changing the loot code, adding 15 minute rez times to pvp deaths- and telling us we should like it better that way- NO the DEV's {those who could not handle themselves in PvP} liked it better, the community hated it and you could tell by the mass loss of players at that time. Also they split the comunity farther by making eq 2 - whole guilds disappeard Then the merging of so many servers & more people left eq. At times i have felt as though the coders actually set out to punish my main character class (my main) because for forever all casters kept getting abilitys increased, as well as all melee, while wizards only lost ports to PoP, lost ports to NPC's to hate and sky, had thier damage mitigation lowered by 10 %, while pet casters were getting pets that zoned with them fully buffed, and new resistances on pets that make them immune to most spells. Warriors have so many disiplines now they are casterlike with spell like abilities, This is the only game that i have that regularly changes fundamentals-like when they changed damage cap from 70 % to 45 % - crippling wizards- all they had was a big nuke, the only true solo caster as all others have pets that attack and stick around after the fight to kill more. It was already almost impossible to get 2 spells off with an ogre PC warior bashing you, poping disc' hitting you with a hundred blows, armed with vampiric weapons with augs that carry bounceback, resistances in the 300's, if you have the AA's to continue casting through the stun, get through resistances, past the bounceback aug, your dead long before a successfull 3 cast- so return the game to level based ability's, remove the rez timer from the only remaining ZEK server, provide some indoor and outdoor zones where PvP deaths have the 0 time reset on respawning, return the abilities back to characters that were given to NPC's to sell modules, remove the potions sellers so people need buffing classes & healers to adventure, develop some content with our 15 $ a month instead of marketing 3 modules a year to us {- the "hidden cost" of eq the 3/year x 39$, x 3 accounts, + tax = 357 + 27= 384$/year or 2X THE COST TO PLAY EQ-} i think they have enough cash on hand to run a sucessful business w/o charging us a premium for new content, and REQUIRED - DEVELOPERS MUST PLAY THE GAME- no more content made by people who could care less about continuity and character class integrity. There comes a time when adding to a system does not improve it. eq has become overburdened. since they change game fundamentals with each release anyway, they should go for a game overhaul. Return class seperation, simplify aa's, kill the rez timers on the zek server, [ it makes zero sense to punish you for 15 minutes in effect for participating in pvp, on a server people choose FOR THE PvP! ] the game is in need of a massive overhaul, i suggest changing the rules in new zones, zones where only wizards & druids can port, only healers can heal, the trend is definitly to give every class everything they need to solo- that sells modules adding basically out of class abilities to each class, case in point we can all summon our bodies now- undo it, at least in new content zones, make it where the soulstones dont work, or summoning in shadowwrest wont work without a necro in your group, okay point made and redundantly - so flame away!
What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 17 2008 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
All the people here who are complaining seem to be the one's that this doesn't effect. If this nerf makes toons better, then I'm all for it. Who cares if it helps lower lvl toons or people who haven't spent months trying to get AAs? If it was helping YOU, I doubt YOU would be sitting here complaining. WHO CARES!!!! Next subject please.
What is everyone's problem??
# Mar 13 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
You know all i hear are complaints. You complainers are just a bunch of little kids that cannot get their way....Boo Hoo. Who cares! EQ is Changing because the times are changing. Remember when most employment oppertunities were 8 hr shifts. Now in the present its 10 to 12 hr shifts. I'm not stompin on your parade. Yeah you worked hard for your AA's, Good Job!!! Times have changed, like supply and demand. Eq needs to change the way tasks are achieved! Allowing people to acheive aa's quicker and slowly drop off is not a bad idea. It also keeps the membership up and growing. People now a days don't have the time to give to eq. Like the long and intense hours of leveling, grouping, raids, solo's, and achieving Aa's along with working on skills. Now some of you do have the time but a majoirty of the population doesn't and to increase there productivity in EQ, changes to AA, exp, skills, Lvl caps, are all needed. There will always be players who cannot manage their aa's but there will also be those players that are above all and do there best in everything they do. Step back and take a breather and look at the whole picture.

What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 18 2008 at 2:08 PM Rating: Default
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532 posts
It's a multiplayer game, if someone makes it up to where you are by doing less work it affects you and increases by percentage the amount of stupid people who are up at the level you are. If you don't care, good for you, just bend over and take it like you love to. People who know this simple fact will complain and rightfully so...

CodeguruX
What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 26 2008 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts


Edited, Feb 26th 2008 2:41pm by Kaidas

Edited, Feb 26th 2008 2:43pm by Kaidas
What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 26 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts
Quote:
if someone makes it up to where you are by doing less work it affects you and increases by percentage the amount of stupid people who are up at the level you are.

Its a game, not work. And sometimes the stupid people are already there before you reach that level...
What is everyone's problem??
# Feb 19 2008 at 1:54 AM Rating: Decent
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"It's a multiplayer game, if someone makes it up to where you are by doing less work it affects you and increases by percentage the amount of stupid people who are up at the level you are."

Not entirely true, I play my ranger with less aa better than some of the ranger's I've met who have ground out tons of aa before they were easier to get.

Maybe now with this change people will be able to get groups since they will have more aa, a lot of buttholes won't take someone who they don't think has enough aa.

Also there is the fact that some of us only get to play 2 days a week due to a heavy workload. In those 2 days I mostly solo, not by choice mind you, because I supposedly don't have enough aa to be worth anything. No matter where I have found to solo, I'm lucky to gain 1 aa in 2 hours.

Same case with opening up the old zones, I'm flagged up to elemental planes but can't find anyone still doing PoP progression on my server when I am on. I would like to see plane of time, but apparently I shouldn't ever see it because I haven't had any luck finding help? Same basic principle, you've been there and are way past it, shut the **** up and get on with your life.
Its all relative!
# Feb 17 2008 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Do you honestly think that a easy path to 200 aa's is really even going to make a dent in the content!

Wow you meen I may get to solo in another one of those zones that high ends come to farm sometimes and other than that it is dead! Their are many great players and people in this game. Granted their are A-hole's as well.
But the reality of it is its not as easy to get a group in a PoP zone besides HoH. And its overrun. Sadly we are not playing the same game we started playing. But their are a few guilds out there that work thru progressing thru old content and I love that. But when push comes to shove in order to do any good grouping or raiding as a new person your not behind the curve, you cant see the curve. AA's are easier than they ever have been and I know people have a hard time excepting change but good **** its going to happen.

The path to lvl 80 or 2k aa's is far from what it was in y2k. I feel for the hardcore people saying I earned mine I grinded them and you should be proud of that. But the way I see it is if sony made it easier to get to 200 aa's then ramped the aa xp back to a regular game wide xp gain they still are not going to be main tank in any high end zone. Of course unless its a alt of someone who has experienced high end content before. then really their is no point for everyones complaints. To be honest I cant remember the last time I ran into a newb. I thaught all their was in game anymore were alts and box accounts.
So realisticly who's is benifiting from this? Hardcore players alts? Or their box set?

I get the older vs younger sibling feeling going here.
Little brother has it easier than I did!
What a joke grow up look at the big picture. wether you have 2 or 200 aa's the grind to 2k aa's isnt not going anywhere anytime soon. But I dont think that they should give better xp on more than 100 - 200 tops then ramp it back down.
I think its smart.



What's wrong with that?
# Feb 17 2008 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
I agree with Ivreked. And several others here. Let logic prevail.

The change will not be a penalty to the hardcore community, and it will serve to keep the casuals who represent the vast majority of income to SOE. If it were not for the casuals, the hardcore folks would have nothing to do because the game would disappear, being a drain on resources rather than a money-maker. Simple math. If you don't periodically throw a bone to the guy that pays the bills, pretty soon he's going to stop paying them.

I'm confused about the motivation for complaints here. How could it detrimentally affect the hardcore folks if casuals and newbies get more aa in the short times that they play each week?

Brynwen



Edited, Feb 17th 2008 11:06am by BrynwenWhiteraven
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What's wrong with that?
# Feb 17 2008 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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66 Warrior with cultural gear 60ish AA's weighing in. - Casual gamer

Lvl 66 and can just now tank decently in PoP zones. Pretty much had to stop and AA being a casual gamer to get that far. Groups really don't want a tank that cant mitigate damage well... Most will pick up my warrior as a "back-up tank while i work on my AA's... Sad existance. I love my warrior and hold aggro fairly well, I dont have the pp and refuse to buy PP to get the hate procing weapons. The DoN axe's are good and can get points to get them, but not till 70. So, I am stuck in a spot that if I lvl up I am even further behind the AA curve. If I stop to catch up some AA's (which is what I am doing) then I fall further behind my guild and friends. I think this is type of AA overhaul is over due and glad to see it coming to frutation.

I am hopefull that the curve will allow to get a minimum of 150 AA fairly quickly. I think that is the minimum number to start thinking about tanking in past expansions. I know 150 is not alot by any means, but If my warrior today had at least 150 AA's- I would be alot further along and could mitigate to satisfy my current groups.

/Cheer the change
What's wrong with that?
# Mar 01 2008 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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Do what your doing bro... its quite refreshing to see the opinion of someone this does affect.... and to see how it affects you from your eyes... Kudos to your post
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What's wrong with that?
# Feb 19 2008 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
"66 Warrior with cultural gear 60ish AA's"

my 100% advice to you Olrec is:
1. get to 70 as your top priority
2. get 8 pcs of elaborate paired with exalted symbols and DON Ametrine 12's and fill all sevens slots with AC augs. This should help a TON better than spending time at 66 working on aa's.
3. get as many of the Dragonscale hills drops you can. All that stuff is wearable by 65 and much of it is very inexpensive in bazaar.
- you can easily get exp groups in DSH because many ppl there are just there for the faction and dont care about exp. Often those same ppl, including myself, could care less about the named loot drops also.

Whats your magelo number? or server?
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People must complain for the sake of complaining
# Feb 17 2008 at 1:26 AM Rating: Decent
8 posts
Seems to be beneficial to everyone...why the complaining?!

Some people keep forgetting. this is 1 of the original games in whats still a child in the mmorpg genre's ..give SOE a break, this isn't an exact science. Yea, patches suck. yea bugs suck. yea not all fixes do as they are **** happens. Play or don't play and stfu.

Service announcement brought to you by
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AA abilities
# Feb 16 2008 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
AS a person that has been playing for more than 9 years one this has annoyed me and that's DC like of AA i mean necro's get undead druids animals, chanters everything so why not let mages have elementals? that way all those specific classes to the enviournment around them get all the same chances i mean sure mages get a kick a$$ pet that can pretty much solo but it would be fun and enjoyable if they got the same chances as every other enviournmental class
AA abilities
# Feb 17 2008 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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176 posts
umm If I'm correct there is an aa for elementals.Look into your aa's sometime b4 posting!
AA abilities
# Feb 18 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Decent
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438 posts
He was referring to the Dire Charm AA that Druids and Enchanters get, not the elemental forms. Mages get one charm at level 65 that will charm an elemental up to level 60, and it generally breaks early. That's it. I'd like to see more of this, but I don't think it's likely to happen. I'd also like to see more element-based spells, since mages are supposed to be elementalists. Y'know... Earth, Air, Fire, Water? Not Fire, Magic...

Anyhoo, back on topic, I think this is a good change. Yes, those of us that slogged through the AAs as they were years ago remember those gruelling hours. But you know what? Do YOU want to repeat that with an alt? I sure as **** don't. Being able to quickly grind a few AAs in a session is a nice concept as a casual gamer with several alts.
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Anadriel Starfire, 90/1865AA High Elf Mage
Jiriki Saonserei, 95/4000AA Wood Elf Ranger
Ssratha Destroyedtokyo, 80/760AA Iksar Monk

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AMEND LAST POST
# Feb 16 2008 at 8:42 PM Rating: Default
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1600 BEEN MAX AA;S SINE LETS SAY POP ..NOW THAT I AM BEHIND BY LIKE 1000 AA'S IN THE LAST COUPLE EXPANSIONS. 2X TIME THE EXP IS NOTHING. THE SCHAOLAR BELOW ME WAS NICE YOU SAYING YOU NEED 400 AA TO EXIST...I'D SAY 600 OR 700 TO MAINTAIN NOW. WITCH DOES BLOW. 8.5 YRS PLAYED, HAD TO EARN EVER AA FROM DAY ONE( USE TO BE ALOT SLOWER AA ADVANCEMENT BY THE WAY). TOOK ME HOURS TO GET AN AA BACK IN POP TIMES. NOW YOU CAN GET AN AA IN WHAT AN HOUR OR 2...I HAVE ALREADY HAVE BEEN SCREWED OVER BY INCREASED AA EXP... BUT WE DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING. ALL THESE NOOBS SUX. THEY CANT DPS/MITIGATE DAMAGE. AND THEY DONT HAVE 8.5 YRS TO CATCH UP TO SPEED WITH THE REST OF US..

MANAWOR 79 SHAMAN 1600 AA'S OR SO
ALTRUISTIC VALORIANS OF EMARR AND MT
2TIMES EXP INST ENOUGH
# Feb 16 2008 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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18 posts
2x ISNT ENOUGH FOR THE CASUAL GAMER. BETTER OFF TO JUST GIVE THEM 600 AA OR SOMETHING.. 1600 A SHAMAN PUTTING HIS 10 CENTS IN.
Nothing in isolation
# Feb 16 2008 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Some interesting points made on this forum, as well as the O-board one that I gave up on 26 pages in...

1. This change is a hook to keep the casuals, new and alts progressing past the point of abandonment. You still have to grind out the AA. The normalisation point will likely not be that close to uber 2k AA --so the elite are still elite.

This is necessary because new content is already tuned for 300-400 aa. Next expansion will add more AA, more levels and probably zones that require 600 aa just to survive a pull.

2. The game is 9 years old. If you think people should have to play 9 years to see current content then you are asking for the game to die.

3. Casuals and Hardcore (this change isn't about group vs. raider as some like to portray) pay the same. However, casuals use way less bandwidth and cost minimal in the research and development of new content (as they are not bleeding edge). This change is a bone thrown to the people that create the economics that allow them to continue to develop the game for hardcore raiders.

If they stop making new content the raiders will quit. Sony could invest nothing in the game for several years after that and still rake in casual account fees (even when there is only one server left). This change says Sony want to maintain and maybe even grow this great game.

4. This change makes it more likely of casuals becoming hardcore.

5. It would certainly be reasonable for most or all of the level 85 AA to required 1500 aa to purchase. It would be just as reasonable for 1000 AA to be prequisite to ding level 81 and so on. All of these things (and the numerous other examples of "veteran compensation" are separate issue from this change and its intentions.
Nothing in isolation
# Feb 18 2008 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Couldnt agree more
lol
# Feb 16 2008 at 5:21 AM Rating: Default
8 posts
the bright minds at work agin in the sony building, lol they make dumb fixes like this all the time, when thier not working on that dumb game inside the game LoN, like anybodie cares about a dumbazz card game, inside a game thats hard enough to play as it is, all that LoN game does is take up space on my hard drive,i'll never play it, its a waste of time and they should make it seperate from the main eq game, those that want to play it can download it fron the eq site, but as far as AA's go,i am a casual player with not alot of playing time during the week, but i dont feel , they should be givin to me simply because i dont have the time to play, i like to earn things the hard way in the game, i meen whats the fun of killing 1 thing and getting 5 AA points, grind them like the rest of us why dont ya, nO0bs always wanting things givin to them for free, go out n earn it like the rest of us had to, i see it all the time,you can always tell when a NO0b starts playing the game" oo can i have this will u power level me, o can u give me plat blah blah blah" go earn it , fight monsters die a few hundred times, save your plat then go buy the things u need in the baz, or read up on alla lokk for armor you need , then log onto the game find a good group n go get the armor you need easy breezy 123,anyways im rambling AA's thier meant to be earned thats all im saying, the more things u just hand out to NO0bs the more they want, and when u cater to retards that cant fight thier way out of a wet paper bag, well then the game might aswell be dead, cause u wont have any quality players who know anything about the game or how to play it because everything was givin to them on a silver platter.
Got my vote.
# Feb 16 2008 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
This is another blow to the long term EQ player. First step was to remove the benefit of spending endless hours playing (and paying for) raid time to get the best gear.


I don't raid much but I will bet my next paycheck that I pay the same ammount (per account) as any of the high end raiders. Does it really matter if I have 2000 AAs and only group attainable or baz gear? Or would your epeen seem much larger if I only had a couple hundred AAs with my groupable/baz gear?

I'm all for this change. I do a majority of my playing solo and grinding AA just plain sucks. BTW, I am a long term EQ player...since April 01' and I don't have any toons at the lvl cap yet and none of my toons are even close to having max AA.
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Bah...whatever!
Got my vote.
# Feb 25 2008 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Just playing Devil's advocate here but


EQ Subscription prices:
High-end Raider's monthly subscription fee: $14.99 ($17.98 w/ Station Players)
Left out this. Cheat site annual donation $300($25 a month) The other cheat site donation ($100 to $300 a month to do the things the originator of the site think are unmorale. Get that cheaters who think other cheater are unmorale.)
So $148 to $348 a month so they can be better than you with maxx AA's and say they earned them. That is the only for some. But only some are complaining about this new system. Not cagreeing just saying this is the case for a lot of the higher end people.

Casual Player's monthly subscription fee: $14.99 ($17.98 w/ Station Players)

Don't use cost as a basis for you arguement.

I say like others fix what is wrong. And get rid of the cheaters. How is it my old retired retarded self can find the guys cheating in the bazar, but not SoE? When reported all they get is a 3 day susp. and that is it. Got guys running programs to check the items on their mule against the market and keep their's the lowest by 100 plat or whatever the make it. I have three on my server. Reported them nothing. Love when you are in a group and hear a wizard or mage or **** anyone without track say so and so popped. Then when asked they give a complete BS answer. Ever go into HoS lately? See a ranger or necro just sitting somewhere invis'd? The cheaters now have a way to check for people and GM's in the zone sweet. There was a guy on my server openly selling Frost Crypt gear. Just pay the money and give him your info. Few days you have FC gear he boasted. Could be a scam but wasn't I had a buddy give into the EQ hype of need to be like the rest. So my buddy paid and 3 days later had FC gear. So add that into or deduct depending on the person from the high end gamers monthly total. $148 to $348 a month but possibility to make $400 to $1000 a month? WOW is all I can say. To many problems now with EQ to worry about aa's in my book. Lets fix some of the other stuff.

Edited, Mar 5th 2008 1:00pm by illslim
AA Issue
# Feb 16 2008 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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I am all for, which is limited to my knowledge, continuing to make the needed changes to protect the survivability of the Game. Been playing EverQuest for a few days now and have 4 accounts that I box on occasion, also in a raiding guild with my main character, and I group across the Level spectrum.

I am not on a Level 80 toon all the time and I do take grouping with lower leveled peeps as very enjoyable... for I see them making the same basic mistakes that is made by all players in the game.

Your saying WTF is Grodie talking about? Heck, I have no idea.... and obviously the Management Developmental Team needs to go to Cheetah's and get another lap dance for they have no idea either... as I peek from the cheap seats.

I can point out 10 things that was not repaired during the last rotation of patches... and the press release indicates these issues had been addressed and the game was made more stable............ WHERE !!!!!!!!

I have a 4 great ideas that should be happening as our AA's are getting **** raped again:

1) repair the existing problems throughout the game
2) repair the existing problems throughout the game
3) repair the existing problems throughout the game
4) repair the existing problems throughout the game

ANY QUESTIONS ?

How many darn forum's has to openly suggest fixing things that are broken and not in trying to repair something that isn't broken.

Please grow a brain and spend the R&D in area's that need the attention.... then introduce a reconstruction of the AA System. Best focus on a realistic way to achieve keeping the existing player base while making it more lavish to the newer player. I am not getting paid here so I am done. Have a Nice Day !

Better than the other EQ nerfs..
# Feb 15 2008 at 8:54 PM Rating: Default
46 posts
I think this EQ nerf is much more sensible than the game destroying nerfs of Ngreth and the other developers. A system that will make lower level and casual players get huge benefits that are still actually earned can only be good for the game.

Most EQ players are long term. Love the challenge of EQ and dont plan on going to any of the "glamour" games which have superior graphics/look but inferior playability and replayability.

So why do the developers keep nerfing that which makes EQ unique?? Didnt they learn from WoW mistake that saw thousands upon thousands of ppl leave that game. No they copied it exactly. Give the casual players who play 1 hour a week the same as the raiders that play 8 hours a day. Dwerium rings and Cultural gear that encourage the plat sellers and buyers to operate and do nothing to stop them. Encourage every toon running around their to "buy" their toon after doing all the Dains to level up. Nerf much loved..difficult..research paths to one very BORING systematic pathway. Bring in soloable gear with ridiculously high stats so that the great zones of the game are no longer worth the effort.

I just wish they would stop catering for the players that rarely play but want the same gear as the people who put in the time. If you want great gear, quit your job and get a divorce so you can earn it like the rest of us.

Better than the other EQ nerfs..
# Feb 19 2008 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I just wish they would stop catering for the players that rarely play but want the same gear as the people who put in the time. If you want great gear, quit your job and get a divorce so you can earn it like the rest of us.


Ummm... sorry but that seems kind of pathetic...
Great Idea!!!!
# Feb 15 2008 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
6 posts
Seems to me some people like to look at things at a perspective of high end raiding peep that grinded to whatever level. They have been that level and progress to the next lvl cap as each exp is released!!!

That is fine but not all of us has 4-10 hours of grind time a day, but also wants to have some way to achieve higher lvls, and we all know that aa's **** sure help the grind of xp..

I love the way I should feel bad because I want to play the same game you do. I spend the same money you do but I am lacking time! Granted its my fault that I dont have time but if I look at this from a business prospective.

1. if I dont make it fun for all the subscribers then I will loose subscriptions
2. I loose subscriptions I loose R&D money.
3. Equals sub-par expantions and or no exspantions.
4. Death of EQ.

I guess it realy comes to the point that some people live with blinders on.
Seeing only the things they want without being able to look at both sides of the coin.

High end people this isnt about you!! Your hooked your going to play! I hate to say it your easy money.

Its about new blood new money! You know those low level noobs that some of the highend peeps cant stand cause their new. Yes those people! If your a high end player you should want to share your love for a game you have poured a great amount of time and effort into, so it might keep the game going for another 9 years.... WOW what a concept.

Keep the content tough I am truly for that Its the life blood of this game.
But make it palletable for the next generation of peeps that did'nt subcribe when kunark hit the seen. To adventure and progress and maybe just maybe get things a little easier than you did..

P.S. Hug A Noob Today......
Another penalty for the long term player
# Feb 15 2008 at 5:39 PM Rating: Default
This is another blow to the long term EQ player. First step was to remove the benefit of spending endless hours playing (and paying for) raid time to get the best gear. Now the endless hours spent spent grinding aa's ans being able to say that you are maxed is now discounted by the bonus. If you want to 'normalize' the game and allow new players to join and hard core players to be challenged, stop the endless inflation of increasing mob HP and player DPS increase to offset and mob dps increase to offset player AC. That is the barrier to new players getting into the game. Penalizing players that worked hard to have 2k aa's and be the top on their servers by 'giving' it to other players is simply not fair. I put the time in the game and others should not get the same rewards for less effort.
Remedial AAs
# Feb 15 2008 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
27 posts
This is the worst idea that has come down the SOE pipe in a while! First off, what ever happened to repairing the things that are broken with the game before changing something that is working just fine?! Mob warping, pathing repairs, quest glitches, server stability, Risk VS Reward on zone encounters, etc... There are tons more that can be done to make this game much more enjoyable than handing out AAs to people that already are extremely short on game experience as is, with all the dumbing down of the encounters that used to take some real skill to get past. What ever happened to earning the rewards that you get? And WTH is up with penalizing those of us that are near the end game on AAs?! It is already hard enough to find players that actually know how to get to a particular zone without giving them a TL and CotH to your camp spot. I've spent countless hours learning my way around various zones and find it hard to believe when I've invited that "80 Cleric with 800+AAs" to my group only to find out they can't find their way to The Devastation, or The Hive, or Dreadspire Keep, or any other zone we happen to be raiding / grouping at because they have sat in Thurg doing Dains for the past 6weeks reaching Max. Level.

Why not add some new AAs that are more expensive for the more dedicated gamer. For example: Paladin- Turn Undead / cost 21pts for rk.1, 24pts for rk.2, 27pts for rk.3 (first rank does damage over time, second rank adds snare, third rank adds fear)
Maybe could do the same for Mages and summoned creatures, Druids for animals, etc...
...or...
Add mounts for the various other classes: griffons, drakes, wolves, lions, etc.. I know it can be done, we've all seen the LoN rewards. Just make them cost alot of points and set a minimum number of AA that already needed to be had before qualifying. If you are max level and have a certain number of AA it could be a class defining reward that would set you apart from lesser members of your class. Various class illusions might be great too. Why don't druids get the ability to shape-shift in this game while in most other games / stories they do?

Any number of things could be done to make it more challenging but I hate the idea of making it less challenging. It kind of cheapens the whole experience for me. I love the game and have been playing loyally since early 2000.

You can all begin lynching me for what I believe now...
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 15 2008 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
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106 posts
2cp......
I don't see how people, casual or raid, can see how leveling to 75-80 with minimal AA's is better for any guild vs. grinding out vital AA's. I went down that road before and found out that just because you ARE a higher level toon, only means one thing...You are the 3rd string player that sits and watches while the rest of the team gets to play. Ya, you may be able to get into a high level group or raid, but really....what help are you? As it stands now (current AA exp grind) it does take forever to get those vital AA's, but you are also playing a toon and "learning the ropes" as a certain toon. Don't recall how many times I've been in groups and the MT or healer, and even DPS obviously DIDN'T have the needed AA's for their level.....c'mon...ya can't tell me (i.e.,) a level 75 warrior with 75 AA's is better equipped and more able than a level 65 warrior that has 200 AA's??? Properly spent, the 65 IMHO is going to be MUCH more efficient and able to tank a higher conned mob than the 75 warrior would be. Assuming the 65 spent all avail Def AA's.....hooray for SoE for putting some thought into revamping the AA system, for all the NON-75+ toons that have PLed and have no depth into their character =P
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PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 18 2008 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Amen. The sad part is nearly every high end player I have heard partake in a discussion about this wants lvl's..not aa's. Boggles my mind that these people ever got into higher lvl's. Actually no it doesn't, somewhere along the way players actually got aa's as they lvl'ed or they never would have gotten into higher content, but now they just pl everyone else and let them leech xp for a while to catch up on aa's until they can actually help the group/raid.
PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 19 2008 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
"c'mon...ya can't tell me (i.e.,) a level 75 warrior with 75 AA's is better equipped and more able than a level 65 warrior that has 200 AA's???"

ABSOLUTELY. 100% TRUE

That 65 war with 200 aa will be sitting in the guildhall or LFG for a 60's pickup group or soloing while that 75 war with 75 aa's will be flagged for Anguish, getting valuable raid exp, off tanking trash mobs and pulling the Hanvar adds off the healers/casters AND earning and getting more loot while he has fun participating with the guild. He will be knocking down all the DODH missions and flagging/flagged for Demiplane of Blood. He will be bustin up the bosses in Sverg and Devastation and Relic.

He will have his 2.0 sword of power and able to hold aggro somewhat.

That 65 war is prevented from flagging because he cannot enter the 69 zone of RSS to get flagged. He 'would' be ate up in Anguish wearing his POP/Elemental armor unless he has raided extensively in GOD Tacvi. (Highly unlikely since that would mean that he enjoyed participating and flagging instead of LFG pickup groups and soloing.)
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PLing vs. AA grind
# Feb 15 2008 at 6:54 PM Rating: Default
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Loved your tag Mord
AA experience
# Feb 15 2008 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
One of the better ideas SOE has come up with in regards to casual players being able to get their essential AAs without having to spend too terribly long grinding out those points.
I like it
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
13 posts
Way to go, finally an idea that will be a viable option to the lower level people trying to move up into the higher level groups and raids. With this they will at least be able to earn aa's at a higher pace to do some catching up, or for some play a diff kind of toon and not have to spend hours upon hours just trying to get enough aa's to make it viable to bring along on a raid and not be a hinderance.

Two thumbs up, is my vote on this . . providing it works like they say.
Great change!
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
16 posts
HA HA whispor, not a very wise post man :). they are trying to help the more casual players without hurting the raiders. This change seems very well designed.
So much so
# Feb 15 2008 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Think about it this way, whispor. They will be able to gain those base AA's much faster now since the multiplier will help them catch up. So the hard core raiders/guilds out there will be able to add newer members without having to invest time in bringing them up.
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wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!
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aa changes
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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whispor, Eater of Souls wrote:
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!


Hmm. I see it having the opposite effect. It is easier to kill level 60 mobs with low AA in today's casual gear than it is to kill level 80 mobs with low AA in today's casual gear.

This curve scenario makes it much more digestable to hold at 55-61-65 (etc.) for 100-200-300+ aa's than the absolute monotony that scenario is for most players today.

I personally have been holding at 61 grinding AA... but as a necro it is efficient for me (and I am having fun hanging there). I pity the warrior caught between wanting AA and needing to level to be able to put together a group. This change benefits the casual and the alt directly, and everyone (except the pure hardcore soloer with 2K aa already) else indirectly through stronger peers.

If a guild doesn't have a main tank with AA... it's not the fault of the tanks with low AA in the guild. One can always have minimum requirements for app/membership and/or choose to raid targets the force mustered can handle.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
whispor, Eater of Souls wrote:
sounds like another way to encourage ppl to PL to lvl 80 and then grind out their aa's...wow, those are definitely the kind of ppl i want in my guild to go on my raids!! i love wiping b/c the tanks have no aa's! i love dieing b/c my clerics didnt have their healing aa's!! YAY for the brilliance of this invention SOE!

If a level 80 tank with no AA's wipes on one of your PoP progression raids (which is where your guild is at) you have much BIGGER problems to worry about.

To put it another way, a group of level 80's with no AA's could probably one group the raid mobs you are using a whole raid to kill.

I'm thinking you are **** for the sake of **** It's a great change and will help close the gap between the casual player (group or raider) and a hard core player (group or raider).

A guild like yours should actually stand to benefit the MOST from a change like this. YAY for the brilliance of self-marketing your guild!
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wtf
# Feb 17 2008 at 4:48 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
Quote:
If a level 80 tank with no AA's wipes on one of your PoP progression raids (which is where your guild is at) you have much BIGGER problems to worry about.


You suck as a sage, check ur info again. We only raid PoP as a side note. The guild is halfway through DoN atm, and that isn't counting the individual players who raid with other guilds on occasion and have their Anguish/DSK/Demiplane keys/flags. Oh...wait...you dont have to be smart to be wise huh...my apologies.

Quote:
To put it another way, a group of level 80's with no AA's could probably one group the raid mobs you are using a whole raid to kill.


That may be in some cases, however that same grp of lvl 80's are not gonna get xp effectively in zones we group in at lvl 70 +/-. The only way being lvl 80 with no aa's is an option is if the people that pl'ed you to lvl 80 are gonna pl ur aa's as well while you sit on the sidelines with nothing to offer the grp.

Quote:
I'm thinking you are **** for the sake of **** It's a great change and will help close the gap between the casual player (group or raider) and a hard core player (group or raider).


I'm thinking you are being a **** because you dont know any better.

Quote:
A guild like yours should actually stand to benefit the MOST from a change like this. YAY for the brilliance of self-marketing your guild!


WRONG. Whispor's guild and guilds like it are only goin to get minimal benefits from this seeing as how Whipor's players are already required to have 200+ minimum aa's before lvling past 70. This is going to benefit everyone but the people that actually get aa's when they need them (no later than lvl 60, when mobs are not going to give nearly as much xp as the lvl 75-80 mobs pl'ers will be getting xp for) are not going to benefit as much as the high end people that get a wild hair to start another toon, pl them to 80, then park them invis behind their grp in Bloodmoon or the Mansion and get 2 or 3 aa's a kill now that this is started. So like Whispor said, its just going to encourage people to lvl to 80 then get their pl'ing buddies to let them join in a zone like that where they would have been getting half an aa or more per kill in the first place and get their aa's then. Which is all fine and dandy until they start trying to tank or heal in a raid or group, get agro, get one-rounded, get a rezz and heal, rinse, repeat until the clerics are oom or dead from overhealing trying to keep them alive and the raid or group is wiped. YAY for the brilliance of gassy sages.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
I agree. It also seems to me that this will make it a lot easier to hammer out basic AAs before 80. As things stand, no use of xp -- with the sole exceptions of tanks, critical utilities, and godly twinks -- is more efficient then putting that xp on the level bar in terms of improving overall power/advancement. With a 2x or 3x bonus on those first hundred AAs, pausing to fill out basic advancement skills would be far more attractive then it is now.
wtf
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
Totally agree with VimRazz. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a lvl 80 with 10AA than a lvl 56 with 200AA on any of our raids, any of my exp groups, anything other than sitting in the GH. Not to mention the zone restrictions on several events that FORCE the exclusion of lvl 56 players with a bazillion AA's. I could care less what the class is, ANY class is much better at lvl 80 with few/none aa's and actually participating instead of sitting in the Guild Hall talking smack that their lvl 56 joe is king of the hill and can stand up to any non named mob in nobels causeway.

Participating means playing. If your in a social guild and all you do is socialize with some play time intersperced, then fine. If you are working toward goals and have player friends with goals and work together to help eachother reach those goals, THEN sitting at a 50's lvl and earning AA's wont help you near as much as getting to lvl 80 will.

I am FAR FAR FAR from even considering, much less even thinking about, inviting a lvl 56 toon to join us at any exp grind spot much less any mission/event group in any SOF/buried sea zone. I could freaking care less how many AA's this guy has if hes too low of a lvl. Lvl 80 ppl are always welcome although the possibility exists that they dont fit a role thats needed on a particular mission.

Prior to this change in AA, to me, it was a bad decision to stop gaining lvls at 52 so that you could rack up a couple hundred aa. Being the best lvl 52 is like being the best kindergardner.

:em pat your head
/say very good thats a pretty picture
/say oh what a big boy
/say you are soooo smart

Now, after this goes into effect, burn through 20-50 aa if you want to at whatever lvl then continue to max lvl. My policy is to turn the exp->AA to zero or to 100. Then keep it there until you reach your goal. No sence thinking, well I sorta want some aa but I like exp so I will do 60-40.
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wtf
# Feb 17 2008 at 2:58 AM Rating: Default
7 posts
That is the dumbest effin thing I have ever heard, comparing a lvl 56 to a lvl 80 is like comparing the tanking ability of a wizard to a warrior.

Also, I seriously hope you are not considering inviting a lvl 80 with no aa's to grind or do missions with you anymore than you're considering the lvl 56 with 200+. Unless that is they are a class that will be sitting on their asses the whole time with no chance of gettin agro from a mob, otherwise you may as well take the lvl 56 for all the good it will do you. Most zones a lvl 80 will be raiding/grinding in is gonna be a **** of a lot harder than Icefall, but when max lvl tanks with 16k unbuffed hp but less than 100 aa's get one rounded by mammoths there, they are gonna be a helluva lotta good in a raid or grind spot unless you just want them as cannon fodder or zone decoration.
wtf
# Feb 19 2008 at 4:00 PM Rating: Excellent
"That is the dumbest effin thing I have ever heard, comparing a lvl 56 to a lvl 80 is like comparing the tanking ability of a wizard to a warrior"

My point Exactly. That lvl 56 guy could have spent his time doing exp instead of aa and been lvl 80 by now, but now he is just sitting at lvl 56 with 200 and trying to find a 50's group somewhere.

Of course I would invite a lvl 80 with no aa's to my group. They could always participate and feel like part of the team. We always have to adjust our group pulling and tanking for the makeup of the group. This is normal. Its rare that I am in an optimal group and often its not always six players.

If a rogue,mage,wizard,BL,Ranger,Druid,Monk,Necro,Shaman etc have 'Fewer' than optimal AA's then we just adjust. Gear and skill make up quite a bit of difference. Sometimes without high AA for key players, it means that, that difficult quest gets put on hold and we do something else instead. You just are not going to make it to the top of Mechanomatic Guardian for the Spelunking mission if you dont have a good balanced team.

I have been grouped with excellent DPS classes that played very very well and knew their job/role very good, BUT had very few aa. These were all high-er lvl veteran players who were playing a different class that day or something.

They were NOT lvl 56 and grinding out more than 200 aa's.

AA count is not the end-all be-all must-have-to-survive. Player level, player attitude, and player skill is. Once you acquire good playing skills and good social skills and reach a lvl that the majority of players are at, then you will much much much more easily find groups to play with and things to do.

If you hang around lvl 56 your life will be just that. Relegated to sub-optimal lvl-restricted gear, difficulty in finding groups, difficulty/impossibility in accomplishing the simpler missions out there.

And, probably the most difficult to overcome: the feeling (and resignation) that it would be impossible to catch up to others.

THAT is the issue that the devs are trying to address with this AA change. To REMOVE the feeling that you must stay at a low lvl in order to get more AA's.
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holding at a level
# Feb 15 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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kirbyramz wrote:
Totally agree with VimRazz. I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a lvl 80 with 10AA than a lvl 56 with 200AA on any of our raids, any of my exp groups, anything other than sitting in the GH...


I basically agree with Kirby (including the rest of the quote I snipped). If I had planned to be in a raid guild I would have levelled up versus stopping to smell the AA roses. There isn't much point being in a raid environment if you can't raid with the guild.

I went for the casual "I want xp from this content before I level past it" approach and it works for me, but I have no delusions that I would be useful in raiding anything but Kunark stuff with family guilds.

Being in "Kindergarten" is fine as long as it is fun, otherwise level up till it is fun again.
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