Don't confuse the new Atlas Book with EQ Atlas

Just copying over what I posted on the update page so you can comment: Muse sent me this note to post for you: "SOE recently began promoting their new book, the Everquest Atlas, and some of you have expressed to me some confusion regarding this. Despite the similarity between the name of this product and their use of "EQ Atlas" to advertise it on the Everquest Live site, the product is not related in any way to my site, EQ Atlas (www.eqatlas.com). While we both offer maps and descriptions, the specific content is quite different. I hope that this announcement will clear up any confusion." I'll go a bit further. /rant on. It seems pretty rotten of them to be using the good will he built up over the past three years to sell their book in a way that would clearly confuse players into thinking Muse is involved with it. Muse is a friend, so I may be prejudiced on this one, and yeah it is Sony's game, but I can easily think of a dozen names they could have picked that would have been just as good and wouldn't have suggested a connection with his site. The only logical conclusion to draw is that they are hoping people will go "Cool. EQ Atlas has a book" and buy it based upon that. Shameful, really. Moreover, having looked at the example pdf file SOE lists and compared it to the information on Muse's site, I'm not sure why anyone would buy that book when EQ Atlas offers far superior maps and information for free, and has been serving the community for years. Yeah they're pretty, but who wants a map without locs and camp information? /rant off.

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omg
# Dec 28 2002 at 9:57 AM Rating: Default
whoever said they bought the prima strat guide
"After allowing Prima to use Muse's maps to promote their game" LMAO Their game? your an idiot Prima is a strat guide compandy basically they dont make or own a piece of EQ and neither did they make the "Everquest Atlas: the Maps of Myrist"...sorry if i sound like iam being an arse and i hate verant/SoE just as much as the next guy but when i see ignorance i must correct it all you all are doing and sucking up to Muse and trying to seem like his biggest fans so get off it....he does make some nice maps but you all wont get off it i personally prefer eqmaps.com or eqatlas.com
bah
# Dec 28 2002 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
boo hoo SoE named their book EQ atlas...like they have to know every EQ site out there???? no they dont and if they did know about the site ...maybe Muse should of had a copyright on the title. i bought the book as well did my friends i enjoy it i dont need locs or camp information because i have a window for that in my UI
Muse's Maps
# Oct 17 2002 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
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66 posts
They are the best maps out there and I have been using them from the very beginning. I always recommend EQAtlas to anyone who is looking for the best maps. I have most all of them printed in color and in binders by continent. I like the way they look, and the information they have, like the information on the zones, drops and mobs. I have no wish to buy the SOE/VI book. I have everything I need. Keep up the great work Muse! I am always in awe of how fast you come out with the new zone maps. You are Norrath's greatest cartographer!
____________________________
Drezik - Level 65 Undead Warlock

<Moon Ascendant>
Silver Hand Realm
Part umm.. Guess 100
# Oct 16 2002 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Well here I am one of 100 or so people letting you know that you RULE Muse! Thanks for EQAtlas! Without it I would have been really lost and given up on EQ.. (I am a new player actually).. So thank you.. Thank you.. And SOE/VI needs to give you credit somehow for the name of there book and the outstanding work you do for them by keeping us going into there world!

Philip Aka D'Urtha Lvl 11 Pally
atlas
# Oct 07 2002 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
god only knows, id like to own it myself tho!
I'll pass
# Sep 12 2002 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
1 post

I've been using Muse's maps before I started playing. I got the game and Prima guide a bit over a year ago. The book said the maps were from the eqatlas.com site, so I went there ASAP to see how big the EQ world really was. Now I have binders for each continent.

After allowing Prima to use Muse's maps to promote their game, I figured the EQ Atlas would be better quality copies (if that can exist) of Muse's maps. After seeing the map on the eq site, I saw it wasn't really an atlas (by my definition) at all, but a book made up of the major landmarks of Norrath etc.

This would be totally useless to me as a game player.
Perhaps....
# Sep 12 2002 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
25 posts
Sony recently introduced EverQuest as a pen and paper RPG with the help of White Wolf games. I am wondering, maybe their "EQ Atlas" is a release for their offline roleplaying game, rather than an addition to their published resources for the online game? I've not heard of it, nor seen it, so i might be wrong, but I know they're releasing an EverQuest bestiary, that is not connected to the online game.
Muse Rules...or, MuSe RuLz :)
# Sep 12 2002 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
While others have said it many times in the past, I have to say that Muse and EQ Atlas have made my long journey in EverQuest much less painful! I still get lost, but that's bcause I was too lazy to look at one of his many fine maps!

At one point he talked about creating a "CD" to sell of his website. I emailed him and promised to buy two copies regardless of cost right away, but sadly it has yet to happen:(

And yes, I agree that Vi is trading on his good name without his permission...and that truly does stink!
____________________________
*****
PuterGeek (Pedir the Cleric)
*****
sticking with muse.....
# Aug 29 2002 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
I usually keep my messages contained to my guild site......

But I truly have to stay with Muse for three reasons:

1. The maps are great resources.
2. I already pay Verant and SOE enough money.
3. Muse's maps have saved my life numerous times.

SOE and Verant have the right to run their business however they desire.

But we players can vote with our pay checks.

Personally, I won't buy the book. I am going to stick with Muse.

Elevar Ilumnimarr
24 season
Paladin of Mithaniel Marr
Norrathian Collective

____________________________
Elevar
Paladin of Mithaniel Marr,57st Sword Year
Atlases
# Aug 27 2002 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
13 posts
Why doesn't/didn't EQAtlas print a book and make an awesome profit? The business out there is called competition anyways.....
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 27 2002 at 8:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Big hairy monkey balls - BAH! - I am sure that if there had been cooperation between eqatlas.com and sony/verant - they would have sold a PILE -and- had a better product to sell the people /sigh
My thoughts...
# Aug 25 2002 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
I just want to say I have premium service with Allakhazam. I love the sight, the services, and the look. I can get all, or most of my information here, as well from some affiliate sights. I also love EQAtlas.com Couldn't find better map/loc/spawn information if you tried. I most definitely print out many maps from there, and I most certainly have a binder. Both these sights (Allakhazam and eqatlas.com) are awesome, do a wonderful job, and are wholeheartedly supported. You definitely have my support. Keep up the good work.

Also, as to this new book...I am sure I will not be buying it, as I will use the $20 to buy a new printer cartidge and paper. ;) But I am sure some will, and hey, it's their money, let them spend it as they wish. I do think Verant could have stated no affiliation with Muse, so that in turn, players would not be confused...

Anyone who uses this sight, or eqatlas.com will know it is not, since I believe it has been stated in both places. And if you haven't been to eqatlas, then you are a newbie, and I am sure the maps will help you some bit. Of course, I don't know why we are writing to those who do not know of eqatlas.com, because they probably are not on this site either, lol. Anyway, as you can tell, I am a bit loopy. I haven't slept but 8 hours all weekend. So forgive me if I my mind doesn't fully work as well as it should.

Bottom line...Eqatlas.com and Allakhazam are the best EQ sites out there, IMO. And I will continue to enjoy them and my Premium service. Thanks!
Lack of Features
# Aug 25 2002 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
I believe I understand VI's logic concerning the lack of information on the maps. Not that I agree but its the only logical explination I can think of. Basicly the book wasn't intended as a spoiler/stradegy guide, rather more like the name implies an "atlas". When was the last time you opened a RL atlas, and it told you every last McDonalds or Liquer store. I believe the book was intended for the player that avoids spoilers, but could still benifit from a small refrence.

Do I believe the book is worth the money no. Do I think the market on such players is big enough to warrant a book like this no. Do I agree with most of what has been stated here yes.

Now I do feel obligated to give VI some credit. They aren't stupid people, some times good logic escapes them, but stupid people do not have the ability to make a game such as EQ. In a general over all look at EQ I feel they have done a fine job, no one, or nothing for that matter is perfect. Logic most deffinitly escaped them with this book though, IMO the best logical course would have been A. Pay Muse to write the book, or B. Forget about the book entirly and let the community continue handle it, they've done a most excellent job sofar. B is most deffinitly the best choice.

VI will never kill the community they understand it has impact, way to many online games have only succeeded because of the community. Half-Life/CounterStrike for instance. Half-Life would not has succeded if not for the "FREE" game mod "CounterStrike" plain and simple. I've also seen many good online games fail because a good community base was never established. That said I faith and confidence that sites like EQatlas.com and Alla's, are here to stay in the legal realm.

Hats off to EQatlas.com the maps are deffinitly TOP notch. Now as a web designer I think EQatlas.com could benifit from a make over, but thats not the discussion at hand hehe.

Hablethorn <Warrior of Fate>
hablethorn@clantac.com
55-Bristlebane-Rogue
Zeb Server

PS: Sorry about the anon/long post forgot my password and didn't want to fish it up out of the net.
Prima's Guide
# Aug 24 2002 at 5:16 PM Rating: Default
I bought a copy of Prima's Strategy guide back when it first came out, and I was still new to EQ. I noticed a similarity to the maps on EQatlas, and I believe that those are Muse's Maps. Muse has stated on his site that he has spoken to Verant about a book of maps. ( or they discussed it once, but for some reason it didn't happen)
I think Muse helped make EQ popular, because I know I would have given up before now if I didn't have maps of the new places. He's the best cartographer of Norrath, IMO, and his maps are tremendous on many levels.
Yes, Verant/SOE owns the game. Yes, Muse doesn't have room to complain legally. Once again, just like everything else, Verant/SOE is doing what they want, with no consideration of the society that supports the game. I would have paid $50 for a hardbound copy of EQAtlas.com. But Verant won't let that happen, so I think I'll just donate to Muse's PayPal account.
/rant
Everquest Atlas contents
# Aug 23 2002 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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196 posts
Going by the preview of Everfrost provided on EQLive, this is not a publication I shall be purchasing. The map, while pretty and colourful, is not of any use at all for players of the online game and the notes on bestiary, people and history are too feeble to be able to run a tabletop game on. Frankly, given 2 weeks, plenty of coffee, access to eqatlas.com and a copy of Campaign Cartographer 2, I could do a better job myself.
As to the name: my initial thought on seeing the name WAS that Muse would be involved. Such a shame that is not the case.
Yet another IMHO
# Aug 23 2002 at 4:57 AM Rating: Default
Too true that eq owns the game ect. They created the game and I personally dont care what the book is named-I think mention of eqatlas would be a classy move or perhaps a reference in the book would be nice for site traffic but -bottom line- if it is well done it will be a hit (sounds like this isnt the case-but we shall see). Hats off to websites that support games like eq-especiallly when they re free-but the best product will win-I love eqatlas and have an imac running next to my puter when i play-for realtime eqatlas! Another interesting advantage eqatlas has is that websites are dynamic and can change adding new zones and chars as the game grows-try that with a hardback atlas. I dont view sony as the big bad Microsoft of online gaming-I am stoked that they made a game that we all enjoy so much-let them publish their book-it will be a hit for christmas-but come January we will all be pulling maps from eqatlas. Cheers- Hamut Warbringer
Intrigued
# Aug 22 2002 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
I'm not an avid "poster" to the boards, as it seems I never have any new information that someone else hasn't relayed before I came along. This subject, though, has moved me to put my thoughts out there.

As far as I'm concerned, and take it as you will, Allakhazam's and EQAtlas have provided a service, one which I whole-heartedly pay for. I think both sites are doing an excellent job and I can only hope they continue into the future.

In regards to the book, a waste of money for me. I don't print, nor do I need every map to EQ. I print what I need, keep them in an expanding folder, use them when I need them, and replace when they get too old to read or need updating. I just checked on Amazon.com and am actually pleased to see this new book with the lowest rating possible, it shows that I am not the only one with this opinion (makes me feel all warm insideSmiley: tongue). I don't think that SOE/Verant brass were totally oblivious to Muse's site, but I do think they probably didn't care. As far as I'm concerned, I play the game to have fun, and SOE/Verant makes the game to produce income. I don't want to try and speak for everyone here, but I think anyone that uses EQAtlas.com for their Everquest maps would have thought it a good gesture on SOE/Verant's part to include Muse on the construction of such a book, like it was referred to in an earlier post by baumuth. But such an idea is, taken at face value, beyond SOE's scope...

I apologize for the long post, had to get that off my chest. Please keep up the excellent work guys, you're both much appreciated.
____________________________
Elder Talipes Vagari
65 Druid - RETIRED
Master Macab Visage
65 Mage - RETIRED
Sony's Atlas sucks
# Aug 22 2002 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
19 posts

After hearing the news, I downloaded the PDF sample of the Atlas's coverage of EverFrost. The map was terrible! No locs, no drawn-in features, no enumerated items of interest except for obvious ones like "Halas" and "Permafrost" (DUH!).

The zone description and bestiary information was laughable.

EQAtlas.com has more info and better maps. If someone was truly motivated to have a bound, hard-copy book of EverQuest maps, simply save EQAtlas.com webpages to CDR and bring it into Kinkos.

I don't think Sony was intending any confusion with Muse's site, considering the second paragraph of the Atlas's description says they were made by some NPC from the Plane of Knowledge.

Anyway, if you have the $20 to buy this Atlas, use your money more effectively by doing the Kinko's thing or getting a Premium Membership with Allakhazam.
Retarted
# Aug 22 2002 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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95 posts
While buying a book because of the author is common among New York Best Seller type novels, I can't see anyone walking into a book store and saying, 'Hey, EverQuest Atlas! This must be made by Muse of EQ Atlas so it must be a good book.' No, anyone who buys this book wants a book maps plain and simple.

Now, I could see how there would be some kind of infringement if Muse already had a book in stores. But he doesnt so what the hell is the problem?
____________________________
Brother Tsukii
62 Grandmaster of Tunare
Difference Between Mythic and Verant
# Aug 21 2002 at 7:54 PM Rating: Default
It is iteresting to notice that Mythic just announced a map book for Dark Age of Camelot. It will have useful map (like Muses EQ maps) and it credits Kirstena (who runs a very nice maps website for DAOC). It is sad that Verant does not recognize the role that website have in making the game much more enjoyable.
Where's the value???
# Aug 21 2002 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
to be honest, this move on the part of soe was the first (and so far only) thing they've done which really has me considering whether or not to cancel my eq subscription. to me, it's not that they decided to publish maps, it's the fact that they grabbed the name of a site that they must have been aware of, and used it as if it were their own creation. this demonstrates two things to me; first, that they are not very original, and second, that they are not particularly ethical.

in that i don't see muse leaving or calling for anyone to leave, i shall keep my subscription. but as for soe's book, i cannot figure for the life of me why i would by it. i suppose if you want to own everything everquest, you might be in the market for it, but value-wise, it's a non-starter.

muse's site will forever be the better deal for all the reasons mentioned below, and more. you can update a web page. how do you expect to update a book? maybe release another one? ...lacking all the detail and information we have come to expect and enjoy from muse's site? $20.00 (plus shipping and handling) will garner much more information for you from the several sites affiliated here. to me, it would be worth it at twice the price!

the soe book is a niknak. buy it if you are into that sort of thing. the value for your gaming dollar is right here, and with the many other wonderful player created sites. i hope that soe does not try to kill these sites off with the issuing of inferior products. as player created sites, these are the foundation and cornerstone of everquest.

sincerely,

katherine porterfield
____________________________
I was not born. I was generated.
#RidgeRunner, Posted: Aug 21 2002 at 5:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They did not use the same name.
RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 22 2002 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
I'm sorry but he does have a soapbox to stand on, the name is close enough that it encures a thought that it might be from Muse himself, they took that in consideration when making this book and have surely taken advantage of it. They're probably thinking that the confusion alone will make people buy the book thinking it was published by Muse.

I'm sorry, but the soap is there and firmly planted in the ground, not by us but by Verant Inc., if they didn't want these comments, posts and feedback they should have hired better monkies to think of names for their products, because the ones they have are surely slacking o the job!
RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 22 2002 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
You know what they say about opinions... "Everybody has one." Sure, SOE's book may be a waste of paper, but it's kind of ridiculous to flame them because they used the name "EverQuest Atlas."

Get a clue: SOE OWNS ANY and ALL reference to the word "EverQuest." It's their game. Only their good will allows the continuation of sites like EQAtlas.com. If they thought for a second that site's like Allakhazam's or Muse's hurt their game, then the sites would not exist.
RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 22 2002 at 5:16 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
31 posts
Lets see it's an atlas for Everquest what should it be called hhmmm Zork's Atlas no, Zelda's atlas no, how about Sony's Atlas no that wouldn't work either since you wouldn't know what game it was for how about Everquest Atlas yeah that makes sense to me. Hey folks Atlas is a book of maps and their game is called Everquest. I sure hope that someone doesn't have a web site out there titled EQ2 sony may have to change the name of that game to satisfy you also. That being said I personally wouldn't buy the book I like Muse's site and will continue to use it if needed. Great job Muse your work is apreciated.

Edited, Thu Aug 22 06:07:39 2002
RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 23 2002 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
Yes I can see that... but they could have called it Sony's Atlas to Everquest, or Altas of Everquest, or even fancy stupid useless pictures of Everquest, but the point is they didn't. They chose to use the hype already surrounding Eqatlas.com. Whether they own everything or not shouldn't matter, cause they apperantley do not own morals!
RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 27 2002 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
Bah, if they had realised that it was a confliction with EQAtlas, they would have renamed it something else. Lets face it, although Muse has done a lot of work to get his Maps, 90% of them are out of date and totally useless except for zone location info, which most people know by now anyway. I cant remember the last time I looked at a map of any kind. :o)

Apart from all that, the idea of this game is a ROLEPLAY game, you are supposed to find your OWN info on mobs/drops/locations/blah/blah. DOH! :o)


RE: Where's the value???
# Aug 27 2002 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
Yeag, /agree 100%. God knows what all these noobs will do when EQ2 comes out and there are NO maps anywhere! ROFL

hats off to muse
# Aug 21 2002 at 3:49 PM Rating: Default
My hat off to Muse for the EQatlas web page...really incredible maps and helpful comments on virtually every loc with particular interest of the EQ world...

As to the Sony move on it..well it's not as good as Muse work. Really not.

SO DONT BUY THE DAMN (HELLO I'M A NOOB) BOOK !

Lulamilye
hats off to Muse
# Aug 21 2002 at 3:44 PM Rating: Default
SOE book, pretty but useless.
# Aug 21 2002 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
25 posts
What use is a book that has no LOC coordinates and no labeling of features and characters in the zone? Take the Everfrost map for example. No mention of the goblin camps? No mention of Bandl's location? No mention of the holes in the ice? No mention of the aggressive nature of the beasts beyond Bandl? How about a mention of the Vengefuls? Someone walking into Everfrost from Blackburrow on a round-the-world tour using SOE's book is going to find themselves in a big mess. The Atlas has not served to aid and assist, but rather to place players into a predicament.

EQ Atlas (the site) is a wonderful resource. I'm a paid supporter via Allakhazam's, and I applaud Muse and company for a job well done. I rarely venture into a zone without first visiting EQ Atlas and printing off the maps, and reading the benefits and dangers before stepping for in the zone.

Marna Spiritweaver
IMO
# Aug 21 2002 at 12:29 PM Rating: Excellent
7 posts
Contrary to previous post SOE does not hold the trademark to EQ. They only hold the trademark to Everquest. This can be confirmed at http://www.uspto.gov/web/menu/tm.html TESS is the Trademark Electronic Search System. All enforceable trademarks in the US are registered here. Doing a search of EQ will return a number of companies that own Trademarks containing only the letters EQ and in that order. However, if you do a search on 'everquest'you will find some interesting results.

You can also register for trademarks at the above site. Which I feel Muse and Allakhazam should do to protect there interest.

That being said, in no way would I buy a guide from SOE. SOE's publications have been consentily lacking in content. IMO EQAtlas and Allakhazam are the best sources for Everquest maps and information (though a few maps of the planes would be nice). While it is within there right to print anything they want, I wish SOE would utilize the Everquest culture developed by the players when creating items like this.

As far as using the popularity of EQAtlas as a springboard for sales, I don't think the SOE boys are THAT unscrupulous. But you never know. If SOE were smart they would commission Muse, Allakhazam, eqtraders and others to compile an Everquest compendium. Complete with development milestones (provided by SOE), backgrounds, NPC's, quests, mobs, trade skills etc. Rather then slap a bunch of documents together to make a quick buck.

Until then my agnostic Half-Elf Ranger will be working on his cultural plate armor.


Edited, Wed Aug 21 15:04:45 2002
I bought this book
# Aug 21 2002 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
28 posts
For one reason only.
I don't own a printer.
Yeah, I have two computers, only one of which I use to play EQ on.
But the tower is on the desk, and sometimes i like to use the laptop in the living room, or lounging comfortably on the bed.

So aside from the vanity issue of wanting to hold hardbound maps in my hands, it just happened to be more convenient for me.
*shrugs*
That and between a full time job, two part time jobs and full time college, I don't have the time necessary to run to Kinko's and print out the EQ Atlas site and slide the whole thing into binder sheets.

so yeah, i use EQ Atlas constantly, and have my premium membership to Allakhazam's (yay go anti-establishment!)
but spending the $20 seemed like a much easier way for me to do things at this point.
I'll let you know what I think of it when it actually shows up in the mail....
Keep Up The Good Work
# Aug 21 2002 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Just my 2 copper worth...great site Muse! I would prefer your maps over anything that SOE/VI does. I still have images of the maps in the Users Guide for the cities and zones that dont even exsist in the game. That was the most confusing part when I first started playing over 2 years ago. I would look at the cloth map then try to find the zone for The Hive off of Halas or Everfrost. Glad your here and dont change a thing!
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~~Feebil Mynded~~
I support
# Aug 21 2002 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
Eq atlas and allakhazams.
EQ atlas owns this books..
# Aug 21 2002 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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79 posts
locs > pretty pictues
____________________________
this is clearly a monk item
Roleplaying
# Aug 21 2002 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Dont forget that EQ is comming out with a roleplaying game. This new release may be envisioned as a bridge resource from the online game to the paper game.

eqatlas.com is still my #1 source of maps. Great job Muse!
Rethinking It All
# Aug 21 2002 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
Well I already posted once, and sure you can find it in this long list of support. I am glad to see the community gather around the idea of not buying this new book. I must state that the cost of making a binder of any use is going to be more than just a meager $20.00. In my post i mention that I had a binder and now am once again creating a binder. The binders are inexpensive and the clear page protectors not too expensive. The expensive part comes in the printing and the time you are going to put in. The ink alone is going to cost you $30.00. Once you factor that in some $20.00 book is not bad in cost comparrison.

The main point is by putting in the time to make a map book, and add facts, players are learning about the game that they love, and making a resource they can keep by the computer. This helps us all when you create a binder. Many a time I have answered shouted questions in game. In guild chat some ask me questions about all sorts of things. I have learned so much about this game making my binders, from npc names to where to buy baking goods.

YOU CAN NEVER GET THIS FEELING OR KNOWLEDGE FROM BUYING A BOOK.

Even if Eqatlas.com put a book out(that I would buy)you would still need to take the time and put in the effort to make the maps fully complete. The maps are great, and adding spawn and spawn times make them a resource. It might even help you if you document what drops off what. Then no more guild chat questions of where does that come from. The idea that you need to know where you are going in EQ and that is why you need a map is silly. The reason you need a map is to find the great spots for pulling and to make spawn points. If you need directions just take a left after entering the zone, eventually you will hit the next zone.


I am still pulling for muse to make an EQATLAS book, and hope that is gets done regardless of any legal worries. Now would be the time to put it out and shut em down.

Until then make mine Allakazam Premium.
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Lilnara Kittystabbs silent swift sleepy.
Ministry of Steel
We should all email Verant...
# Aug 21 2002 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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96 posts
And ask them (politely) to acknowledge that their Atlas is in no way related to Muse's site.

That would solve the issue.
Where's the final word?
# Aug 20 2002 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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68 posts
Don't the various strategy guides use Muse's maps? i know that the one of Kunark has all his city maps, the "Brown Trilogy" guide has his maps from the "newbie zones" and sunnavagun if the strat guide for Luclin has his maps! These guides even have eqatlas.com as the definitive place to go to. i believe word of mouth will trump Verant's attempt to parasitize off of Muse's diligent and precise work.
____________________________
Lasciate ogne 'speranza
Voi ch' intrate
-Dante
Heh
# Aug 20 2002 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
Are you forgetting that the sole reason EQ Atlas exists is *because* of Everquest?

To some extent, I sympathize, but only because I like -- and subscribe to -- this site. Still, in creating a fansite for a game or any other interest, one ought to expect things like this to happen.

And it's my belief that most people subscribing to this site will not buy this book, and recognize it for the phony "strategy guide" that it is.

I'm kinda curious too as to what the heck else you think they'd call it...these "dozen" or so other names you'd come up with. Everquest Maps? Taken. http://www.eqmaps.com

EQ Charts? Misleading. EQ Geography? Most people who play this game (and would buy this book) don't know what that word means.

Anaglyphs? Diagrams? Monograms? Vade Mecis?

I've run out of thesaurus-gotten synonyms.

Your site (and sister sites) beat the tar out of this crummy book. Emphasize that, not your bitterness.
RE: Heh
# Aug 21 2002 at 1:32 PM Rating: Default
Honestly now, do you think that most of us who play EQ have an IQ below 40? Because honestly, that's all it takes to know what geography means. Sadly enough, even your average hill billy bum knows what the word means. Even thus, I do sympathize with what you are stating about the fact that all of these sites existing due to the original creation of Everquest, but please realize that most players actually do know what geography is a hell of a lot better than what a /loc is (and beleive me, I've been around a bit, I think I know).
/rant off

-Renmazuo
Dumb book
# Aug 20 2002 at 10:44 PM Rating: Decent
Hey forget this dumb book, and make your own EQATLAS!! Everyone would buy it, I know I would! And call it "The Real EQ Atlas" you'd make tons of cash
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Wishful Thinkings
# Aug 20 2002 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
8 posts
Would have been nice had they hired Muse to do the Atlas.
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 20 2002 at 5:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Funny rant coming from someone who took a site to pay basis, even though 95% of the information available on the site was donated by players. And the 'increased' bandwidth argument doesn't hold water when you consider all the sites that have survived heavy traffic with donations and advertising. Browse some heavy traffic Warhammer 40k sights and see how many you have to pay to browse. This site is just another sector that is taking advantage of the weakmindedness of the EQ community for financial gain. Sort of hypocritical to complain about someone else making money (even if it is SOE) in this manner. It's not like they grabbed his maps (were great, now have fallen behind the power curve) and threw them in a book.
RE: Hypocrits
# Aug 21 2002 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
Hmm let's go through the other big Everquest sites and see where they stand. The big EQ sites from a couple years ago would be:

1. Allakhazam -- has a pay service with lots of features

2. Caster's Realm -- has a pay service to remove ads

3. Everlore -- has a pay service to remove ads

4. EQ Maps -- Need to pay to see everything

5. EQ'Lizer -- Need to pay to see everything

6. EQ Prices -- Need to pay to se everything

7. EQ Vault -- Pay service to get forum features and a newsletter.

8. Maximum EQ -- Ran out of money and went out of business

Yep, Allakhazam is certainly the only one charging for this.
RE: Hypocrits
# Aug 21 2002 at 4:36 PM Rating: Default
Umm. Allahazam does not charge for use of maps that I have seen ever. But to let you know EQlizer is almost all a charge site you cant do much at all. and EQ prices charge as well for much of their information. Go try and look at the stats of an item on EQlizer board and see what you get. Dude you are so far lost its sad. Please go buy the book. If you cant get yourself around the internet you probably need all the help you can get in EQ.

So to say Allakhazam charges thats pretty lame. You can find almost all the information you need without paying for it. By far the best EQ site out there.

My hats off to you guys for a great job.
RE: Hypocrits
# Aug 20 2002 at 6:14 PM Rating: Default
Shut up you tool, you have no idea what you are talking about and it makes you look like the retard you are.
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 20 2002 at 10:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Exactly what is it that he doesn't have any idea of what he's talking about? Or is that just something you said to be cool? I think your post definitely deserves a better rating than 3. Such insight delivered in a succint manner.
#Anonymous, Posted: Aug 20 2002 at 10:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ha Ha. The gathering of the sheep begins. Mooo.
RE: Hypocrits
# Aug 20 2002 at 11:20 PM Rating: Default
2 posts
How typical... you take the herd response one step further, and then call everyone else sheep. Just as it's typical to insult the webmaster, it's typical for loyal fans to support him. Then it's just as typical for other people who suffer delusions of intellectual superiority to call the loyal fans "sheep" for daring to defend the webmaster en masse. I guess it never occurred to you that people could be defending him because they THINK HE'S RIGHT.

Oh, and much as I'm generally annoyed with the grammar game people play, in this case I really can't resist the urge to lay the smack down on a guy who's criticizing bad grammar while mispelling the word "stifling" and adding an unneccessary apostrophe to "show's."

Don't mind me; I derive a morbid kind of amusement from pointing out the short-comings of pompous jerks. Even if it does make me one myself. At least I admit it. ;)
New Atlas is BS
# Aug 20 2002 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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1,068 posts
I didn't read all these posts but this is my take on this:

EQAtlas.com
Binder $8.50
Clear Protector Sheets $8.75
Copy Paper $4.00
Not giving SOE another penny PRICELESS

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RE: New Atlas is BS
# Aug 20 2002 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
*
96 posts
Soooooo right!!!!
RE: New Atlas is BS
# Aug 21 2002 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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702 posts
I wanted to attach my post here cause I agree with ya on what you did as I have except I have 10-2"binders, 5 reams of paper, 6 boxes of clear sheets (100 per), stickers for identification, colored tabs (to find page quickly), at least 2 ink cartridges (each black and color) and I'm on my second printer.
This website EQATLAS is the only way to go seeing how zones change or additions of new ones, plus the guy gives damn good opinions. You know Verant wouldnt instantly upgrade the book when new zones arive like Stonebrunt or Jaggedpine...or the new stuff in zone like the gobos in Butcher Block.
Anyways, the book is a kids drawing and looks neat, but is as usefull as counting the ripples in the water after a duck farts.
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save your time...
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
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5 posts
Save your time with the legal action issue.
EQ is theirs. Along with any other version of the Everquest Names, they have the copy rights.
The maps on EQ Atlas.com are property of Muse, they are a representation, not an actual depiction of the zones.
I agree the book suxs. Muse Rules. I've been using these sites from day one. If your thinking about buying the book...save some money and get memberships to these sites and get better information to boot.
Careful when you rock the boat...you may just get knocked off. <---Dont give SOE/VERANT a reason to come calling
Be Honest
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
Ok this won't be popular, but come on... Be honest, if you had built EQ and were the owner you would make money in any and every way you could. That's the purpose of a business. Furthermore, I do use a lot of the maps on EQAtlas, but you can hardly claim the name is a rip off of the site. They ARE "EQ" and it is an "ATLAS" after all. What else would they call it? If they called it EQ Maps they would irritate someone else. Also the idea of having copies of every map in the game is quite appealing. I dig the maps Muse has made, but to have EVERY map in one place is a good idea. I probably won't buy the book because VI's documentation is generally awful, but a lot of people will...It's just ridiculous to bag on a company for wanting to make money on a product they built. That IS capitalism...
Book
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
Book smook, EQAtlas da bomb!
3 Ring Binder concession
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
So Allakhazam,

Have you considered linking to a site the sells 3 ring binders and paper protectors? From the sounds of it, that is where the real money is.

I, like those above, have my trusty file of Muse's maps. Tattered, crumpled and marked up. You couldn't pay me to give them up (ok you could, but it would cost a LOT.)
Thank you, no
# Aug 20 2002 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
I've seen the content of their "atlas". Thank you Sony, for the attempt to take more of my money. I think it's better spent here.

Gruumble Cuznobooze
52nd Disciple of Brell
Ring of the Phoenix
Tarew Marr
Muse
# Aug 20 2002 at 3:26 PM Rating: Default
Personally, I think this is another example of some greedy corporate a**holes taking advantage of someone else's talents. Yes, it's Sony's game, and hey they need to keep coming up with more ways to make money off of it. But, I've been checking out EQ Atlas since I started playing EQ a couple years ago. It is by far the best EQ map site out there. I think it's pretty crappy for Sony to put out a book with the same name as the site in an obvious sttempt to confuse people who have come to trust and appreciate the work the Muse puts into his maps. I, for one, will NOT be buying Sony's book.
Keep up the great work, Muse. Most of us appreciate what you do.


Tryunn Tue`Imajynn
<Walkers>
Vazaelle
Sorry
# Aug 20 2002 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
I understand you are all very proud of Muse's work and so am I. I printed all of his maps and made my own book. But you're definitely taking it too far. Any game maker would call their map book "Something Atlas". Dark Age of Camelot Atlas. Anarchy Online Atlas. I mean come on, you can use other words that are close but the word Atlas is mainstream. So you can't fault them there. Second, producing a map book to make money. Hmmm, if EQ belonged to me, if I created it, I would forever be wanting to find ways to make money on it.

Like the Smiley face from the late 70's First is was smiley face T shirts, then buttons, then bumper stickers and so on. There is no evil play here at work. They know you have a map site. They know others have map sites. They want to offer their own map book. So what =\
RE: Sorry
# Aug 21 2002 at 4:44 PM Rating: Default
But in that respect EQ is a term given by us the players to shorten EVERQUEST. Look at your boxes it does not say EQ: Ruins of Kunark or Scars of Velios does it. Why use the title EQ when all of their products are Everquest.

Why not name it Everquest Atlas?

EQ belongs to the players its just like DAOC. Dark Age of Camelot does not use DAOC on their boxes. Remember its not EQ you play. Its Everquest.
Illia's beastiary is next
# Aug 20 2002 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
44 posts
The next book will be called The beasts of EQ or somthing similar.
Anything to add to their empire. as someone said, dont buy the book. thats pretty good reasoning. i for one will not buy a useless book of artistic tripe.

It is when Sony/VI go "after" Muse, Allak and Illia that we should all be concerned and stand up for our trusty sources of information.
Muse has an awesome site, i am sure this "book" will not lessen his hits per day at all.
I know that i have my 3 ring binder of maps handy by the computer at all times. They are not pretty, they are torn, in grey scale mostly, but the information that i want is there!
Most of the maps i got from the awesome trio of sites here.
the best way to save your 19.95 is to give 16.99 of it to this site(6mos) for the premium access to THREE sites, get your USEFUL information and /rude VI
RE: Illia's beastiary is next
# Aug 20 2002 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
Nah, I'm still sticking with the idea that the next money venture for Sony will be levels and epics on live EQ servers.
Sony's Decision
# Aug 20 2002 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
Please don't be surprised by Sony's Decision to sell a book using a name that may confuse people.
Remember that big corporations are all about making money. It's all about the money and as long as the risk is not too great, people will trample over anyone or anything to make/get it.

Look hard enough and you can find a dozen other decisions that Sony Corp. has made that could be considered questionable. Sony is conducting business the same way most big Corporations do.

So remember to protect yourself when doing business with anyone, especially large Corporations.
RE: Copy right violations
# Aug 20 2002 at 1:57 PM Rating: Default
Hi!

Well, unfortunately, you are wrong there about Muse not being able to copyright his work. What is happening is two things, First, Sony never released a copy of a map, they released a zone in a 3D environment, a building for example would be an accurate desciption as it simulates a 3D environment. His maps are not derived works. His works are completely independent of the work done by Sony, since Sony never released any 2-D maps. So, his maps can not be considered to be derivative works. Also, to further rufute your copyright infringment idea Muse's works can be considered to be original artistic represenations. Artistic representations are the very core of copyright protection. For example, can an artist paint a picture of a building and then copyright that picture? Yes. Why? Because he can argue that where he put the line on the window is not where it actually is in space, and therefore represents an original idea. Which is irrelevant anyway as all painted pictures (By hand) are considered to be an artistic expression and therefore copyrightable under Internation Law. Which is exactly what Muse did in making the maps that can be found on EQAtlas.com. Muse took a representation and then added artistic expression as to where he put the lines on the pieces of paper that he calls a map. Those maps of an area are artistic expressions as they do not show the exact dimensions that Sony/Verant might have used. Also, Muse's works are copied from any existing Sony/Verant maps that have ever been released. Wholesale copying of a map by Muse or Sony without permission is considered to be a Violation of Copyright. A derivative work, in this example, would be using a photocopy of a Map by Sony (or Muse) and then adding new information (such as a zone loc, or spawn loc). As this is now a derivative work, the copyright holders would in fact control the copyright for this new work. But you should know this, but its obvious that you dont...
Why bother
# Aug 20 2002 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
Selling a book of maps without the LOC coordinates is not only WRONG as hell but also totally useless. What Muse does is outstanding and I applaud him. I only wish more people sent in updates for the Bestiary and Equipment lists here on this site. ALOT of the Luclin zones Bestiary and Equipment list are very sparsely populated as far as info to the game players. Lets renew our dedication to updating these sites!
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RE: Why bother
# Aug 21 2002 at 7:58 AM Rating: Default
where do you find the info on the eqatlas book? I have to say, i would have thought they would at least put locs down. Now i am definatly not buying some worthless thing like that. I'll stick to EQAtlas.com
Any way to make a buck huh?
# Aug 20 2002 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
It doesn't shock me that Sony is selling something like this. Even I made the EQAtlas/new book association at first like a lot of us did but once I saw the posting by Muse on this site, I know better. Anyway like a lot of us, I have a big binder full of Muse's maps and I don't plan on tossing them out LOL.
To Muse...we LOVE the work you and those that help you do it. NEVER change!
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