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#1 Jul 20 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Sub-Default
http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics-neanderthal-110718.html

Quote:
If your heritage is non-African, you are part Neanderthal, according to a new study in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution. Discovery News has been reporting on human/Neanderthal interbreeding for some time now, so this latest research confirms earlier findings.

Damian Labuda of the University of Montreal's Department of Pediatrics and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center conducted the study with his colleagues. They determined some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals, but only in people of non-African heritage.

"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred," Labuda was quoted as saying in a press release. His team believes most, if not all, of the interbreeding took place in the Middle East, while modern humans were migrating out of Africa and spreading to other regions.

The ancestors of Neanderthals left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago. They evolved over the millennia mostly in what are now France, Spain, Germany and Russia. They went extinct, or were simply absorbed into the modern human population, about 30,000 years ago.


http://news.discovery.com/history/neanderthals-more-intelligent-than-thought.html

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

Blacks are inferior as a matter of science, to be rebuffed by the feeble-minded because it offends their sensibilities, news at 11.
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#2 Jul 20 2011 at 4:19 AM Rating: Good
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How does interbreeding make non-blacks superior?
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#3nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 4:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You could also simply look at the state of blacks as compared to others.
#4 Jul 20 2011 at 4:53 AM Rating: Good
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So it makes them better at surviving cold environments? Science already knew that--it's why Black peoples living in far-northern or southern environments need more sun than non-whites. They adapted to a sun-rich environment. They can develop a vitamin D deficiency elsewhere.

On the flip side, in sun-rich environments, lighter-skinned peoples are MASSIVELY more at risk. The rate of skin cancer for whites is many times that for blacks (over 20, iirc).

So I fail to see how whites are better in any objective sense from this interbreeding.

The reasons why white people (in general) hold the most power right now has nothing to do with race. For the bulk of human history, white peoples were the most disenfranchised. It wasn't until the Italian Renaissance began that they really began to catch up to the mid-east, which continued to have the strongest, richest empire in the world for a few hundred more years.

Even through the French Revolution, many of the texts from the Ottoman Empire were considered mandatory reading for doctors and chemists.

Oh, and that empire stretched into Africa and included black peoples. Know why modern blacks are so disenfranchised? Because those black people who were a part of that empire, along with the blacks who weren't but had regional power, sold the socially weak peoples to slavers. These slaves helped cause an explosion in European progress.

And it doesn't help that the Bubonic Plague struck the non-white empires far harder than it struck northern europe. Why? Because they were the ones who had major trade routes going all over the world. Europeans were pretty much just picking from the scraps.

Now add in the fact that the environment that black peoples lived in was seriously lacking in the kinds of resources they'd need to really begin to urbanize (mainly widespread farmland and copious access to water). The area that did have this has been a world power since the ancient period (Egypt).
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#5nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 6:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Except that Egypt isn't a world power, has rarely been for quite a while, and has almost always been composed of and led by Arabs and Asiatics.
#6 Jul 20 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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nonwto wrote:
Blacks are inferior as a matter of science, to be rebuffed by the feeble-minded because it offends their sensibilities, news at 11.


You heard it here folks. Because non-blacks are part-Neanderthal, we're superior.

Smiley: dubious
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#7 Jul 20 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Quote:
Even through the French Revolution, many of the texts from the Ottoman Empire were considered mandatory reading for doctors and chemists.
You're almost certainly referring to works done by Arabs or Turks.
Heh.
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#8 Jul 20 2011 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics-neanderthal-110718.html

Quote:
If your heritage is non-African, you are part Neanderthal, according to a new study in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution. Discovery News has been reporting on human/Neanderthal interbreeding for some time now, so this latest research confirms earlier findings.

Damian Labuda of the University of Montreal's Department of Pediatrics and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center conducted the study with his colleagues. They determined some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals, but only in people of non-African heritage.

"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred," Labuda was quoted as saying in a press release. His team believes most, if not all, of the interbreeding took place in the Middle East, while modern humans were migrating out of Africa and spreading to other regions.

The ancestors of Neanderthals left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago. They evolved over the millennia mostly in what are now France, Spain, Germany and Russia. They went extinct, or were simply absorbed into the modern human population, about 30,000 years ago.


http://news.discovery.com/history/neanderthals-more-intelligent-than-thought.html

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx
From this, you discern this:
Quote:
Blacks are inferior as a matter of science, to be rebuffed by the feeble-minded because it offends their sensibilities, news at 11.


That's quite a leap.

How do you define inferior in human's?
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#9 Jul 20 2011 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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Everyone in Africa is black, right? Most of those black people were slaves or lower class. The fact that there were black subjects of an empire doesn't mean a @#%^ing thing that you're implying.


What's funny is that there is absolutely no evidence to support this, which suggests that it's highly likely that egypt didn't discriminate with skin color and there were likely various skin colors at all levels of the social hierarchy. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that dark skin was associated with the lower classes.
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#10 Jul 20 2011 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Queen idiggory wrote:
What's funny is that there is absolutely no evidence to support this, which suggests that it's highly likely that egypt didn't discriminate with skin color and there were likely various skin colors at all levels of the social hierarchy. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that dark skin was associated with the lower classes.

Most of what people associate with Egypt comes from the Ptolemy dynasty which was a bunch of white dudes from southern Europe pretending to be Egyptian.

Proof is trying way too hard but Alma is sure to fly into a tizzy over it so that's kind of amusing.
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#11 Jul 20 2011 at 6:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Queen idiggory wrote:
What's funny is that there is absolutely no evidence to support this, which suggests that it's highly likely that egypt didn't discriminate with skin color and there were likely various skin colors at all levels of the social hierarchy. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that dark skin was associated with the lower classes.

Most of what people associate with Egypt comes from the Ptolemy dynasty which was a bunch of white dudes from southern Europe pretending to be Egyptian.

Proof is trying way too hard but Alma is sure to fly into a tizzy over it so that's kind of amusing.

Alma, nonwto, or both?
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#12 Jul 20 2011 at 6:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Senator Toomey (R-PA) wrote:
In the end it didn't pass because we're so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it
#13nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 6:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Pretty easily quantified, by standard standards. Blacks are, on the whole, the least intelligent of all groups. They typically perform better in physical activities, but that's increasingly irrelevant in the modern world. I don't see how it's a leap at all.
#14 Jul 20 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
nonwto wrote:
Quote:
Even through the French Revolution, many of the texts from the Ottoman Empire were considered mandatory reading for doctors and chemists.
You're almost certainly referring to works done by Arabs or Turks.
Heh.
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#15 Jul 20 2011 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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Pretty easily quantified, by standard standards. Blacks are, on the whole, the least intelligent of all groups. They typically perform better in physical activities, but that's increasingly irrelevant in the modern world. I don't see how it's a leap at all.


Jared Diamond disagrees.
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#16nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 6:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Except that the dark skinned would have been foreigners, and considered lower class as a cultural matter. See the banning of Nubians from Egypt for example.
#17nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 6:56 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yeah, your post seemed awfully reminiscent of Guns, Germs and Steel. Matter of fact is he's an idiot with a strong case of white guilt and biased methodology.
#18 Jul 20 2011 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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nonwto wrote:
Matter of fact is he's an idiot with a strong case of white guilt and biased methodology.
As opposed to an idiot with a strong case of white supremacy (or black inferiority) and biased methodology like you, amirite? Smiley: lol
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#19nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 7:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I wouldn't know, as none of this applies to me, and that there is a strong case for black inferiority. Trumped.
#20 Jul 20 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
I don't see how it's a leap at all.
Yeah, well people see what they want to see eh.

Education /= intelligence. Physicalness has only gone of out favor as a dominant human trait in the last century...actually the last few decades - a very small percentage of the human time scale.


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#21 Jul 20 2011 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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nonwto wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
nonwto wrote:
Matter of fact is he's an idiot with a strong case of white guilt and biased methodology.
As opposed to an idiot with a strong case of white supremacy (or black inferiority) and biased methodology like you, amirite? Smiley: lol


I wouldn't know, as none of this applies to me, and that there is a strong case for black inferiority. Trumped.

Color me dubious that claiming blacks are inferior is not a strong case of black inferiority, and that drawing said conclusion from an article on genetic divergence (with no mention of intelligence) from 400-800k years ago isn't a biased methodology.
Oh look! A dubious smiley! Smiley: dubious
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#22nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 7:29 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You seem to have ignored the other article.
#23 Jul 20 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Here's a thought experiment for you.

Take two children with a large intelligence discrepency. Let the less intelligent one go through a good school system for 12 years. Let the other one go through an inter-city school system.

Now give them IQ tests. How was it?

Guess what, IQ tests aren't good indicators of intelligence. For one thing, they have all the bias of tests--people who don't perform under pressure aren't necessarily less intelligent than those that do. Furthermore, skills you acquire in schools help boost your score. You don't grow more intelligent, you grow more educated. And that bumps up your IQ score.

No one with half a brain considers IQs a good indicator of intelligence. Most of the world's geniuses hate them, because they know "intelligence" is an extremely dynamic concept and can't be boiled down to things like spacial reasoning.

Black peoples suffer in this world because of their current, and history of, oppression, not because they are fundamentally less able.
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#24 Jul 20 2011 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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Funny thing. Neanderthals had larger brains and were quite possibly both smarter and were certainly far stronger than Sapiens Sapiens. The reason our species overtook them probably has more to with diet, seeing as neanderthals required 5000 or more calories a day and would starve more easily than Sapiens. But yeah, probably smarter than we were.
#25nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 8:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Fair enough. However, look at the state of blacks in the world, as I said before. That's a pretty good measure.
#26 Jul 20 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Elinda wrote:
nonwto wrote:
I don't see how it's a leap at all.
Yeah, well people see what they want to see eh.
\

And what benefit is it that you suppose I reap from this viewpoint? Why would I have an irrational bias? It's simply how the facts add up as I see it, and I've not seen anyone here make a decent case elsewise.
You're of a race. You have a bias.

Quote:
I didn't equate education to intelligence.
So superiority in race is strictly defined as a measurement from the western world's IQ test? Does it take into account population growth, monetary wealth, life expectancy, health, happiness, the magnitude of change of any of these values over time?

Looking at the big ecological picture, stable population growth would dictate success or superiority of one organism over another. Blacks while further slipping to Asians are not losing that race.

People are, for all practical purposes, one species. Discussing race as trait is bogus. We're all mudbloods and mutts.



Edited, Jul 20th 2011 4:06pm by Elinda
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#27 Jul 20 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:


Fair enough. However, look at the state of blacks in the world, as I said before. That's a pretty good measure.

What is the state of blacks in the world?
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#28 Jul 20 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Queen idiggory wrote:
Here's a thought experiment for you.

Take two children with a large intelligence discrepency. Let the less intelligent one go through a good school system for 12 years. Let the other one go through an inter-city school system.

Now give them IQ tests. How was it?

Guess what, IQ tests aren't good indicators of intelligence. For one thing, they have all the bias of tests--people who don't perform under pressure aren't necessarily less intelligent than those that do. Furthermore, skills you acquire in schools help boost your score. You don't grow more intelligent, you grow more educated. And that bumps up your IQ score.

No one with half a brain considers IQs a good indicator of intelligence. Most of the world's geniuses hate them, because they know "intelligence" is an extremely dynamic concept and can't be boiled down to things like spacial reasoning.

Black peoples suffer in this world because of their current, and history of, oppression, not because they are fundamentally less able.


Fair enough. However, look at the state of blacks in the world, as I said before. That's a pretty good measure.


That's a horrible measure. Look at the state of arabs in the world. It's awful. But for a good 5 or 6000 years, they were kings of the world.

There is no significant difference in intelligence between women and men. But women are in a much worse state in the world. Why? Because history has determined that.

Just as history has determined everything. Bush became president of the most powerful nation in the world. This is clearly not a world in which intelligence = world power.
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#29varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 8:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#30varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 8:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) idiot,
#31 Jul 20 2011 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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Oh good, varus is here. Now the Neonazi idiocy can really begin.

Good thing their collective IQ is only 12. Even the geniuses will admit--that's a pretty telling.
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#32 Jul 20 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gumbo Galahad wrote:
Sub-Sahara africa has always been a tribal sh*thole.
They can't all live in double wides with twelve cars as lawn ornaments.
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#33 Jul 20 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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No there were arab kings 5-6k years ago. I'm quite sure all of them didn't live in such a manner. Of course these days by american standards if you don't have ac, a big screen tv, a car, and a house you're living in poverty so everythings relative.

Sub-Sahara africa has always been a tribal sh*thole.


Wow, what a stupid argument. Of course not every arab lived as a king. The point is that their civilizations ruled the modern world for 6 thousand years. But now, that means nothing.

And the reason it's always been tribal? Because the environment was such that it was extraordinarily difficult to set up communities. Farmland was extremely hard to come by, and cultivation difficult. The disparity between the wet and dry seasons were huge. And the land couldn't support large populations of people in the best case scenario.

This has nothing to do with their intelligence--it's simple nature. You can't build a community if the land won't provide for it. In those few places where a community could be established, they were. And they grew quite large and were ruled by warlords. But there was no room for expansion--they were landlocked by lack of resources.

No amount of intelligence will help you start an urbanized civilization if the area in which you live cannot support it. That's really all it comes down to. Every single race on the planet would have failed to do so.

Modern humans, with modern technology, still struggle with these issues.
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#34 Jul 20 2011 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Elinda,

Quote:
What is the state of blacks in the world?


I'll drive you to memphrica and show you if you like.


I can drive you to rural Maine for a look at the state of white people in the world. It's every bit as representative right?
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#35 Jul 20 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought the title of this thread was "just the facts"?

According to that article, the Neanderthal descendents "went extinct, or were simply absorbed into the modern human population". That does not exactly sound like a superior species.
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#36varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 8:50 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Idiot,
#37nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 9:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They bred less, needed more food, were less aggressive. Simple as. They were ill suited to their time, but perfect for ours.
#38varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 9:04 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) notwho,
#39 Jul 20 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, did we really need a SECOND varus on this board?
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#40varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 10:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) idiot,
#41 Jul 20 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Quote:
You're of a race. You have a bias.


Nah, not really. I'll freely admit that Asians tend to be more intelligent than whites, and I'm far from fond of Asians.

We are all biased. If you are not able to recognize it, you can't compensate for it.

Quote:
Are you serious? Go look at the condition of countries with a black majority, led by blacks. look at the state of South Afrika before and after apartheid.
You really need to be more specific.
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#42nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 10:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You really need to go read a @#%^ing book.
#43varusword75, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 10:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Elinda,
#44 Jul 20 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
idiot,

Well we already have like 10 jophs, 8 lagagas, and 13 debo's.



The difference is that 1 of you is already too much.
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#45 Jul 20 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Queen idiggory wrote:
What's funny is that there is absolutely no evidence to support this, which suggests that it's highly likely that egypt didn't discriminate with skin color and there were likely various skin colors at all levels of the social hierarchy. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that dark skin was associated with the lower classes.

Most of what people associate with Egypt comes from the Ptolemy dynasty which was a bunch of white dudes from southern Europe pretending to be Egyptian.

Proof is trying way too hard but Alma is sure to fly into a tizzy over it so that's kind of amusing.

Alma, nonwto, or both?


Proof = nonwto. The original Proof may have been before your time.
#46 Jul 20 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nadenu wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Queen idiggory wrote:
What's funny is that there is absolutely no evidence to support this, which suggests that it's highly likely that egypt didn't discriminate with skin color and there were likely various skin colors at all levels of the social hierarchy. There isn't a single shred of evidence to suggest that dark skin was associated with the lower classes.

Most of what people associate with Egypt comes from the Ptolemy dynasty which was a bunch of white dudes from southern Europe pretending to be Egyptian.

Proof is trying way too hard but Alma is sure to fly into a tizzy over it so that's kind of amusing.

Alma, nonwto, or both?


Proof = nonwto. The original Proof may have been before your time.

Ah, that makes more sense. I figured "proof" here was in reference to the "facts" in the title, and Joph's comment assumed Alma wrote the thread, not nonwto.
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#47 Jul 20 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
Well we already have like 10 jophs

Technically, I'm only one person but I can be subdivided into ten posters of 5,000 posts each.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Senator Toomey (R-PA) wrote:
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#48nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 11:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) An accomplishment to go down in the annals of history, no doubt.
#49 Jul 20 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd totally do a Neanderthal chick.
#50 Jul 20 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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nonwto wrote:
An accomplishment to go down in the annals of history, no doubt.

Or maybe the ANALS of history!! HAHAHAH AMIRITEORWUT?!?!?!?! Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh[:OMFGSOFUNNY:]Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Senator Toomey (R-PA) wrote:
In the end it didn't pass because we're so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it
#51nonwto, Posted: Jul 20 2011 at 11:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I considered such a pun but then I rejected it for being too lame and overdone, even ironically. You should feel bad.
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