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GOP Healthcare Plan is a Liberal Conspiracy. Follow

#52 Mar 16 2017 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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See? Florida.
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#53 Mar 16 2017 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Death panels.
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#54 Mar 16 2017 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yodabunny wrote:
They didn't admit him because they were worried that they'd be stuck with the bill they couldn't pay when Obamacare was killed and Trumpcare took over and he just wasn't dying enough for emergency care.
WTF kind of hospital is that? Smiley: dubious

Sounds like they were just making excuses. That kind of liability for the bill isn't just going to go away overnight, the insurance company is still on the hook. Besides the passage of the bill isn't even a sure thing; they don't even have all the details worked out yet. I get that you can't admit everyone for every sniffle, but that's kind of messed up thinking if that was really their reasoning.

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Florida
Oh... right. Nevermind. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Mar 16th 2017 8:38am by someproteinguy
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#55 Mar 16 2017 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't read that as the hospital's issue but as the family's issue.
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#56 Mar 16 2017 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well okay then, same crime different culprit. Smiley: rolleyes

The insurance company is still on the hook either way. Get off your *** and get gramps the treatment he needs.

Edited, Mar 16th 2017 9:13am by someproteinguy
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#57 Mar 16 2017 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey, I don't disagree. He should have been in the hospital and in Canada he would have been but the fear of the potential financial burden led to his death.
#58 Mar 16 2017 at 5:08 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Bijou wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Heck. Imagine if we managed to break these monolithic health care organizations entirely?


We can. It's called "single payer".


Um... That would make it more monolithic, not less.
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#59 Mar 16 2017 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Wow. If only there were some simple way to check to see if someone can afford to pay for something.

If you don't know how insurance actually works mechanically, you can just say so.
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Catastrophic care is a lot like auto insurance though

No, not really. Repairing a person grievously wounded after a car accident is, in fact, very little like replacing the car after a car accident. Likewise, the insurance is completely different. If my car is hit by another car, it's a fairly simple question of "Who is at fault/pays?" but my auto insurance company doesn't quibble over whether or not my headlights are included or they'll cover the body work but not the electrical system. On the other hand, there's a million different questions and levels of coverage behind will my medical cover skin grafts? Reconstructive surgery? Various medications? Prosthetics? What kind or level? Rehab? How much and how long? How long will they pay for me to stay in a hospital charging a thousand dollars a day?


Um... You're repeating a fault of comprehensive coverage though. It has a list of things that are covered and can be bewilderingly complex in terms of what is and is not covered based on the package you (or your employer) purchased. Catastrophic coverage, on the other hand has one simple question: Is this care you require the result of an injury or major illness? If yes, you get covered up to whatever the limit of the coverage is. Period. That's what we're talking about when we say we should go to a catastrophic coverage model. It's a model that covers just the things that are rare and expensive, which is what most people really need. That's how car insurance works btw.

And, just like car insurance, it doesn't cover small maintenance type things. If you get a cold, you need to pay for your own medication. Minor injury? Buy your own bandaids and neosporin. Car insurance doesn't pay to replace your tires, or your oil, or fix parts if they wear out, etc, etc. Yet, amazingly, it manages to work very very well at the thing we need it to do.

I'm not arguing that people *can't* choose to buy comprehensive coverage. Just like people can choose to buy the extended warranty and service and support contract on their car (and continue renewing it if they are willing to pay). But that should be their choice. Right now, you have no choice. You are forced to buy some form of comprehensive coverage. And yeah, that's pretty analogous to the government requiring car insurance to cover full bumper to bumper warranty style coverage and then requiring everyone to buy it. And just as would happen in that scenario, costs go up. And, just as happens in that scenario, when something breaks, you take pot luck as to whether it's actually covered in the fine print of the contract. Yes, the door locks are covered, but not the electric door lock switches. Those you have to pay for yourself (that's one I literally ran into with a warranty issue on a car I owned). Sound familiar? It's the system we have now. And it sucks.

Edited, Mar 16th 2017 4:26pm by gbaji
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#60 Mar 16 2017 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
And, just like car insurance, it doesn't cover small maintenance type things. If you get a cold, you need to pay for your own medication. Minor injury? Buy your own bandaids and neosporin.

I don't know what insurance is like in your imaginary world but mine has never covered Band-Aids or DayQuil.

Seriously, your argument is terrible.
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#61 Mar 16 2017 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I have to pay for my own bandaids too. Universal healthcare is a myth.
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#62 Mar 16 2017 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Yodabunny wrote:
Hey, I don't disagree. He should have been in the hospital and in Canada he would have been but the fear of the potential financial burden led to his death.


Wait? Whose fear though? He either had insurance or he didn't. If he did, it pays for whatever it pays for under the existing contract. Period. That includes treatment for flu. If his flu developed into pneumonia (I'm assuming that's the case) and he chose to not seek care out of a totally irrational fear that his insurance would not pay for what it was currently contracted to pay for, then that's 100% on him. Heck. Even if that fear was true, which is worse? A $10k hospital bill, or death? I'm pretty sure you could pay off that debt over the years of life you didn't lose by, you know, not dying. And as an added bonus, you don't die.

Honestly, it sounds like the family finding a scape goat for what was really a terribly poor decision. Sadly, tens of thousands of people die each year of flu, most of them not because of any lack of coverage, but because they chose to continue "fighting through it" long after they should have gone to the hospital. My money is on this being the case here, and "let's blame Trump" being the excuse created after the fact.
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#63 Mar 16 2017 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh that's not Trump's fault, its your ****** reliance on health insurance in the first place.
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#64 Mar 16 2017 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
And, just like car insurance, it doesn't cover small maintenance type things. If you get a cold, you need to pay for your own medication. Minor injury? Buy your own bandaids and neosporin.

I don't know what insurance is like in your imaginary world but mine has never covered Band-Aids or DayQuil.

Seriously, your argument is terrible.


Eh. The example was terrible. I was trying to be funny. How about: If you get an ankle sprain, you can probably afford to go see a nurse and have it checked out, verified it's not broken, and have a brace or bandage put on it. Or frankly any minor thing, from a stomach flue, ear ache, minor infections, allergies, dog bites, bee stings, etc, etc. Well, or you could if there was a local private doctors office in your area for these sorts of things, that handles basic care just fine, and charges affordable rates for it. Today, just to see a general practitioner for five minutes of care takes working through a mountain of paperwork, scheduling often weeks in advance, and also involves dealing with your insurance company. Because that GP is part of a large health organization and everything has to be tracked, verified, go through their payment system, checked against various government services, etc, etc, etc.

The overhead is ridiculous. But the alternative is heading to an urgent care or emergency room for those sorts of things. This is why I keep pointing out how dramatically the HMO act changed our entire health care system (and not for the better). Prior to that time, you could just drive your kids to the local GP's office for these things (and some of them even made house calls!). It was a private practice with maybe a few employees. Very little overhead, and 99% of what you needed could be taken care of for you at very little cost (but you paid out of pocket, which is part of what kept the overhead low). If you needed more expensive care, you either went directly to an emergency room (if it was an emergency), or the GP would make a determination that your injury, ailment, or whatever was more serious and refer you (just like they do now, only without the massive overhead in the way of that first step). At that point, you'd enter the world of "covered care", but it was a smaller world and didn't have a massive number of smaller cases clogging it up.

It was efficient and it worked. Very well. What it didn't do was generate massive profits for large monolithic health care organizations who could funnel that money into other large medical devices organizations, or pharmaceutical companies, often in return for kick backs of various kinds (oh hey, Dr so-and-so, in return for padding our profits by unnecessarily using our machine that goes ping on every patient for 30 years, in your retirement years, you can sit on our board as an "advisor", and we'll pay you a high 6 figure salary. Great doing business with you!). But as far as medical bang for your buck? Much much better.

About the only positive thing that can be said for the changes to our health care system since the passage of that act was that in the midst of all that glut of money a decent amount of beneficial medical research has been funded along the way (and yes, some actual useful medical devices and pharmaceuticals as well). I'm pretty sure we could find a more efficient way to accomplish those things though, if we really put our minds to it. Laundering that cost, hidden in a much larger pile of waste, by passing it along to everyone who wants even the most minor health care, has not proven to be a useful a methodology as you might think.
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#65 Mar 16 2017 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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Trump literally murdered this guy's uncle and gbaji is still defending him.

Dethbicable.
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#66 Mar 16 2017 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Today, just to see a general practitioner for five minutes of care takes working through a mountain of paperwork, scheduling often weeks in advance, and also involves dealing with your insurance company. Because that GP is part of a large health organization and everything has to be tracked, verified, go through their payment system, checked against various government services, etc, etc, etc.


Do you know what system doesn't require any of that? Universal healthcare.
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#67 Mar 16 2017 at 6:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Most family doctors in Canada operate as a private small business, which you don't see nearly as much in the states...
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#68 Mar 16 2017 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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The other week, my younger son needed to see the family doctor for some basic care (fever, cough). We, uh, called the doctor's office and got an appointment for later that day and then we went.

I guess if it was the 50's, the nurses' uniforms might have been cuter than Garfield scrubs. Does this bill handle that?
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#69 Mar 16 2017 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Oh that's not Trump's fault, its your ****** reliance on health insurance in the first place.


No, it's not. 28k people died from the flu in the UK just a couple years back (they had a really bad year to be honest). That's a much higher population rate than in the US (which typically has 30-40k deaths a year). They use a socialized health care system and yet people still die of the flu there.

Want to know why? Because it's not about how free or covered your health care is. People tend to avoid going to hospitals until they are "really sick", and with the flu that often means that they wait too long. By the time you realize you're "really sick", you've probably got a serious case of pneumonia going (and possibly other illnesses as well from the diminished immune system), and your odds of dying skyrocket.

Oh wait. Um... That's 28k more deaths than the previous year. WTF is up with the UK? I'm reading like 500k people dying from the flu each year. Am I reading this right? Compared to 12k-56k deaths a year in the US. Is this weather related? Or different health care systems using different ways to decide something is a "flu related fatality"?

Dunno. Someone else can noodle that out if they really want to. The broader point is that people dying from the flu has nothing at all to do with whether one uses health insurance or has a "single payer" system, or has a fully socialized system.
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#70 Mar 16 2017 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The other week, my younger son needed to see the family doctor for some basic care (fever, cough). We, uh, called the doctor's office and got an appointment for later that day and then we went.


And how much did it cost? Did it get billed to your insurance? How much paperwork was involved?

Quote:
I guess if it was the 50's, the nurses' uniforms might have been cuter than Garfield scrubs. Does this bill handle that?


I'd vote for it! Heck. Even if the same dress code applies to male nurses. Cause... hilarity!

Edited, Mar 16th 2017 6:27pm by gbaji
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#71 Mar 16 2017 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
The other week, my younger son needed to see the family doctor for some basic care (fever, cough). We, uh, called the doctor's office and got an appointment for later that day and then we went.
And how much did it cost? Did it get billed to your insurance? How much paperwork was involved?

Standard co-pay. Yes. None on my end; I guess once upon a time I filled out a form with my insurance info. Point being that a simple visit to the doctor isn't some purgatory of bureaucracy and week-long waits as you claim:
You previously wrote:
Today, just to see a general practitioner for five minutes of care takes working through a mountain of paperwork, scheduling often weeks in advance, and also involves dealing with your insurance company.


That said, if I just wanted to pay a straight fee for some minor medical care I could have taken him to any one of numerous nurse practitioner clinics set up for expressly that purpose. Hell, I could have done that at my regular doctor's office (I did once upon a time when I was between insurance).

Edited, Mar 16th 2017 8:37pm by Jophiel
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#72 Mar 16 2017 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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Oh wait. Um... That's 28k more deaths than the previous year. WTF is up with the UK? I'm reading like 500k people dying from the flu each year

Are you actually retarded?

Don't answer this question, you already have. No, half a million people don't die from the flu every year in the UK.

The article is "NUMBER OF DEATHS IN ENGLAND AND WALES HITS 12 YEAR HIGH", and the statistics you're talking about refer to total deaths. Just because flu is mentioned as a possible contributing cause for the increase doesn't mean that all further death statistics are flu related deaths.

How is your reading comprehension so bad? And, even so, how could you believe for a second half a million die of flu every year in a country the UK's size?

Apologise to me right now for being so stupid in my presence.
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#73 Mar 16 2017 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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I thought that was why you all had to keep importing new people, because flu.
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#74 Mar 16 2017 at 10:59 PM Rating: Good
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Mostly we employ them to work the furnaces in our great flu crematoria, which burn 24/7 in a sisyphean struggle to keep the streets free of unsightly cadavers. It costs a bomb to man them as it is, imagine how much it'd be if we had no Polish immigrants to exploit.

It's amazing anyone's still willing to chance coming here, really. First you come down with the flu, then you go up one.That's just what life here is like.

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#75 Mar 16 2017 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Mostly we employ them to work the furnaces in our great flu crematoria, which burn 24/7 in a sisyphean struggle to keep the streets free of unsightly cadavers. It costs a bomb to man them as it is, imagine how much it'd be if we had no Polish immigrants to exploit.

It's amazing anyone's still willing to chance coming here, really. First you come down with the flu, then you go up one.That's just what life here is like.



So, no different than Germany, I suppose.

Edited, Mar 17th 2017 1:15am by Timelordwho
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#76 Mar 17 2017 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekkk wrote:
It's amazing anyone's still willing to chance coming here, really. First you come down with the flu, then you go up one.That's just what life here is like.


And this is why I fostered you as my minion.
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