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#1 Mar 30 2015 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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That, in this instance, San Diego may be somewhat worthwhile.

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#2 Mar 30 2015 at 10:06 PM Rating: Good
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Watch as San Diego quickly goes from one of the thinnest cities to the fattest in the US.
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#3 Mar 31 2015 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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I thought McGriddles were discontinued. Nasty little things.
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#4 Mar 31 2015 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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What's there to test? Dennys exist, so we already know people will eat shoddy breakfast foods at any time of the day.
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#5 Mar 31 2015 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Knowing McDonalds and their past attempts to implement some new idea/policy, it'll be a disaster. I remember when they decided to be more personal with their customer service. Sounds great, right? But the way they did this was to have the cashier not take another order until the current customer received their order. Which was pretty ridiculous and created long lines and waits. Which in turn could only be solved by pre-cooking even more food so that it could be bagged and handed out more quickly. Which made the already crappy food even worse. Something simple like "maybe teach our employee how to properly interact with customers" was turned into something monumentally stupid.

I anticipate that once again, the solution to the problem of too many items on the menu relative to grill space wont be something shockingly intelligent like say abandon their love of pre-cooking everything so it's ready when the person orders, and actually cook to order like nearly everyone else does. Nope. They'll increase the number of pre-cooked items so as to have a larger buffer and be able to keep up with demand even with a smaller grill. See. When you cook to order, the total number of items on your menu doesn't matter. It's how many customer orders you're actively handling that does. And that doesn't change based on menu size. When your model is to pre-cook food, then you have to have some number of every single item on the menu ready to go and still "fresh enough" to serve when any given customer shows up to order it. Which is the reason a larger menu creates problems.

I'm frankly baffled at how that company is still in business. Not only is their food terrible (even by fast food standards), but they have monumental waste because of that "ready to go on order" mentality. The sheer tonnage of food that gets tossed because it sat under a heat lamp waiting for a customer to order it until it exceeded some arbitrary (but still way too long) time limit is staggering. I can only assume that some people do care more about getting their food in front of their faces in under a minute. I guess. Don't get it, but there you have it.

Yeah. I can't stand McDonalds. Can you tell? Smiley: smile
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#6 Mar 31 2015 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've worked at a couple McD's and we didn't have any monumental waste. Any half decent manager knows approximately how much to prepare for rush and you're more likely to fall behind (oh no, a field trip bus!) than to be stuck with a pile of unpurchased food after lunch is over.

I'll admit that the three stores I worked at may have been atypical and maybe the rest of the however many thousand stores threw away a mountain of burgers every day.
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When your model is to pre-cook food, then you have to have some number of every single item on the menu ready to go

Erm, no. You just need the base components ready which in the case of McD's is usually small and large beef patties, two types of chicken (breaded and grilled) and some nuggets. If you're making a pile of Quarter Pounders, you're doing it wrong. In the case of things people rarely order (fish outside of Lent for instance) you make maybe one fillet for reserve and cook a new one if/when you sell that one. You don't dress it though before you've sold it; that's just a waste of a bun and cheese.

The reason McD's always held off from offering breakfast during the day was that you needed different grill temps for breakfast vs lunch (eggs/sausage vs beef/chicken) so you couldn't really share cooking real estate. Plus that damn roll out griddle thing for the hot cakes. I don't miss cleaning that stupid thing at all. Anyway, I guess they've figured out a way around that in the umpteen years since I worked fast food.

Edited, Mar 31st 2015 7:27pm by Jophiel
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#7 Mar 31 2015 at 7:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe you just had a really regular rate of customers or something. I've never worked there myself, but know a ton of people who did. The grill operated on timed sets of patties being cooked at all times based on the expected rate at which they'd be needed. So different numbers of different sized patties were placed in sets so that they'd all be done at once and the grill then used for something else. At least the people I know all reported that this resulted in significant amount of waste because they never just made like 3 patties at a time. It was always like 8 or 10 at a time based on size. If your restaurant had inconsistent traffic, this process would always result in waste, even with a very experienced lead calling out the grill orders.

Maybe it's a California thing or something. Don't know. Totally makes sense with the grill temperature thing though. I hadn't thought of that. Honestly not sure if that's really a requirement, or it's yet another artifact of the very regimented way that McDonalds has their people cook food. The fast food place I worked at (which was this small mom and pop joint), used the same grill to cook eggs, bacon, burgers, sausages, etc, and the grill was set at the same temperature the whole time. You just had to train your workers to actually cook the food and know when it was done as opposed to following a timed cook cycle. But I suppose it's possible that it's just not possible to properly cook an egg mcmuffin on a grill set to the same temperature required to cook burger patties. Dunno.


Again though, everyone I knew who worked at McDonalds talked about how much food was tossed each day (like a full roadside sized trash can just full of food waste every day). Maybe they were all exaggerating or something. And while I can't compare personally to other large scale operations, I can say that waste where I worked was virtually zero. You only got waste if you like dropped something on the ground or a customer changed their order and no one else was ordering the same thing (which given that all our burgers used the same sized patties and buns and condiments and only varied based on number of patties and whether there was cheese or bacon didn't happen very often). Even something like 20 wasted patties would be "massive" relatively speaking, and from what I've heard, many McDonald's waste a lot more than that every day.
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#8 Mar 31 2015 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
I'm frankly baffled at how that company is still in business.
Because their food is relatively soft and easy to chew, making it very popular with the elderly and small children. Or so I've heard.
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Yeah. I can't stand McDonalds. Can you tell? Smiley: smile
Preach, brother! Am I alone in thinking that their onions tastes like floor cleaner?[:barf:]

gbaji wrote:
Again though, everyone I knew who worked at McDonalds talked about how much food was tossed each day (like a full roadside sized trash can just full of food waste every day).
My experience (at Hardee's a quarter-century ago) reflected this. Random visits there (recently) seem to indicate that pre-cooking is not a thing anymore.


EDIT: for (recently)

Edited, Mar 31st 2015 10:03pm by Bijou
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#9 Mar 31 2015 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Something simple like "maybe teach our employee how to properly interact with customers" was turned into something monumentally stupid.

Its never that easy. You would be surprised how many people get to the counter, complain about how long they had to wait, then proceed to stare at the menu because they have no idea what they want. Or are too busy talking on their phones and hold a finger informing the cashier not to talk to them while they are busy. Courtesy should go both ways, but in a retail/service environment the customers never take responsibility for their own bad habits.

Related: http://distractify.com/culture/craigslist-surveillance-restaurant/?v=1
#10 Mar 31 2015 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Knowing McDonalds and their past attempts to implement some new idea/policy, it'll be a disaster.

One of the most massively successful companies in US history? Pretty sure they've had some new ideas/policies over the past 75 years that have been successful.

And despite recent articles proclaiming McDonald's downfall, their profit from 2008-2014 has been, in $billions:
4.3, 4.5, 4.9, 5.5, 5.5, 5.6, 4.8
I think they've been doing okay. Guess gbaji doesn't really believe in capitalism. His opinion > the free market.


Edited, Mar 31st 2015 9:51pm by trickybeck
#11 Mar 31 2015 at 9:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Maybe you just had a really regular rate of customers or something. I've never worked there myself, but know a ton of people who did

Well, I have so your second and third hand accounts don't really mean much.
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Again though, everyone I knew who worked at McDonalds talked about how much food was tossed each day (like a full roadside sized trash can just full of food waste every day). Maybe they were all exaggerating or something.

You're misremembering, they were exaggerating or they were lying. You wouldn't come remotely close to that. You'd be pressed to fill a large wastepaper basket with discarded food barring something unusual happening. You know why you can't believe that McD's could stay in business like that? Because they couldn't. Use some common sense.

Edited, Mar 31st 2015 10:49pm by Jophiel
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#12 Mar 31 2015 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Maybe you just had a really regular rate of customers or something. I've never worked there myself, but know a ton of people who did

Well, I have so your second and third hand accounts don't really mean much.
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Again though, everyone I knew who worked at McDonalds talked about how much food was tossed each day (like a full roadside sized trash can just full of food waste every day). Maybe they were all exaggerating or something.
You're misremembering, they were exaggerating or they were lying. You wouldn't come remotely close to that.
Far be it to support gbaji in any argument, but at the Hardee's I worked in I did observe that a bad (unmotivated/poorly trained/whatever) crew could and did fill a 50 gallon trashcan with food waste over 2 8 hour shifts. Usually a result of a crappy manager/shift manager. (1988)
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#13 Mar 31 2015 at 10:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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That would be like throwing away five full cases of patties every day. The walk-in freezer would be empty (and in the trash) by the second or third day. Then you'd be bankrupt by the end of the week Smiley: laugh
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#14 Apr 01 2015 at 3:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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When you cook to order, the total number of items on your menu doesn't matter.
Simply not true. The most efficient restaurants almost always have a limited menu size.
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#15 Apr 01 2015 at 7:04 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
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When you cook to order, the total number of items on your menu doesn't matter.
Simply not true. The most efficient restaurants almost always have a limited menu size.


Depends on how different the options are, if a lot of things share the same base components you can have a wider menu without running into problems.
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#16 Apr 01 2015 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Quote:
When you cook to order, the total number of items on your menu doesn't matter.
Simply not true. The most efficient restaurants almost always have a limited menu size.


Depends on how different the options are, if a lot of things share the same base components you can have a wider menu without running into problems.
That helps on prep time but more often than not, on actual service.
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#17 Apr 01 2015 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe if the options are how a steak is cooked. I wouldn't have much faith in a four page menu unless the joint also has a drive-through window. And "faith" probably isn't the right word for the drive-through. More like low expectations instead of no expectations, I guess.

Edited, Apr 1st 2015 9:31am by lolgaxe
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#18 Apr 01 2015 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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We rarely go to McDonald's, but when we do, the quality of the food and service vary tremendously. Most notably was the location we once visited in Orlando, which somehow seemed infinitely cleaner and more professional than the ones around here. The same could be said about Olive Garden. I don't know how or why-- somehow being located in a touristy area gets them more attention from upper management perhaps?

Quote:
Again though, everyone I knew who worked at McDonalds talked about how much food was tossed each day (like a full roadside sized trash can just full of food waste every day). Maybe they were all exaggerating or something.


This is not an exaggeration. McDonald's was my first job when I was 16. Of all of the loathsome things I hated about working there, the food waste was by far the worst. It also varied tremendously depending on a day to day basis-- depending on which white-shirt management type person was there at the time. It was my job to grill the meat-- which was done constantly throughout the day. When things are being done by the book, you are technically never supposed to stop grilling. The grill itself is kind of like some giant version of a George Foreman grill, where you slap the frozen hockey pucks of meat down and close the lid. After a few moments it will pop back open on its own, where we would then collect the meat and place them into enclosed bins/trays with paper liners for the sandwich makers on the other side could access.

There are actually timers on the bins that indicate how long the meat is allowed to sit inside of them for before it must be thrown away. I think it was about 4 minutes. During non-peak hours, this meant a lot of meat got thrown out every day-- about a trash-can full as you described. But then, like I said before, it varied. Some days were busy non-stop and we'd have very little waste, usually on weekends. Some days the meat would be allowed to stay in the bins for quite a lot longer than they were supposed to.
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#19 Apr 01 2015 at 7:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Again, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone was throwing away five cases of patties daily (aren't those things like 100 to a case?) to fill a 50gal trash can and no effort was being made to curb this waste but given the time frames of people's experiences and bajillion stores out there, I guess I'm not willing to argue it further either. Y'all are whack though.
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#20 Apr 01 2015 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Knowing McDonalds and their past attempts to implement some new idea/policy, it'll be a disaster.

You just wanna suck the joy out of everything... Smiley: glare
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#21 Apr 01 2015 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
I've worked at a couple McD's and we didn't have any monumental waste. Any half decent manager knows approximately how much to prepare for rush and you're more likely to fall behind (oh no, a field trip bus!) than to be stuck with a pile of unpurchased food after lunch is over.

Does "letting the skinny grill guy eat all the leftovers like a Dagwood sandwich" count as waste?
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#22 Apr 02 2015 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Kuwoobie wrote:
This is not an exaggeration. McDonald's was my first job when I was 16. Of all of the loathsome things I hated about working there, the food waste was by far the worst. It also varied tremendously depending on a day to day basis-- depending on which white-shirt management type person was there at the time. It was my job to grill the meat-- which was done constantly throughout the day. When things are being done by the book, you are technically never supposed to stop grilling. The grill itself is kind of like some giant version of a George Foreman grill, where you slap the frozen hockey pucks of meat down and close the lid. After a few moments it will pop back open on its own, where we would then collect the meat and place them into enclosed bins/trays with paper liners for the sandwich makers on the other side could access.

There are actually timers on the bins that indicate how long the meat is allowed to sit inside of them for before it must be thrown away. I think it was about 4 minutes. During non-peak hours, this meant a lot of meat got thrown out every day-- about a trash-can full as you described. But then, like I said before, it varied. Some days were busy non-stop and we'd have very little waste, usually on weekends. Some days the meat would be allowed to stay in the bins for quite a lot longer than they were supposed to.


Huh. Well, I was going to concede the fact that my information was probably close to 30 years old, so it's possible they'd changed their policies with regards to pre-cooking and timed tossing of pre-cooked patties, but given your age, it looks like they're still doing this (well, everywhere but in Chicago apparently). So I formally retract the concession I almost made! Smiley: nod

To be fair though, it was basically dependent on whether the store manager was a stickler for the rules. As you say "by the book", will result in lots of waste. It's reasonable that some managers (especially if at franchises rather than corporate owned stores) might toss that book out the window and not have so much waste. My assumption has always been that McDonalds places a higher value on being able to put that burger you ordered on a tray or in a bag in under a minute than on keeping their waste to a minimum. And I suppose one can argue that they are right given their success worldwide. Which I suppose just reflects poorly on the state of mankind. Then again, it is "fast food". They've cornered the market on "fast".

That and the toys. I'm pretty sure that much of McDonalds success hinges on getting those kids hooked at an early age so that they'll demand to go there. I distinctly recall my friends constantly going to McDonalds whenever they ate fast food. When I asked them why, the answer always was "that's the only place our daughter wants to go". They did go to other places, but every single time fast food was an option, that was where she wanted to go and it was a fight to go anywhere else. So brainwashingfree market then!


As to making breakfast all day long, it's probably actually a good idea. Doubly so since about the only thing that's palatable at McDonalds is their breakfast stuff. Still not likely to move them from the bottom of the list of fast food places I'd choose to eat at. And this is a list which includes Taco Bell and a drive through chicken place nearby that I actually got food poisoning from once. Seriously. The only time in the last 10 years I've gone to McDonalds was when my dad was in hospice care with less than 3 months to live and wanted a Shamrock shake.
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#23 Apr 02 2015 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Again, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone was throwing away five cases of patties daily .
It's not a monolithic block of burgers and cheese, ya doofus. The old style containers for the bigger burgers and general paper waste, etc were taking up quite a bit of space, too.


And, as Kuwoobie pointed out, this was on shifts run by idiot shift managers; not an everyday occurrence.
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#24 Apr 02 2015 at 5:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it's filled with old boxes and general waste then you're not throwing out a 50 gallon drum of food Smiley: tongue
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#25 Apr 02 2015 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Kuwoobie wrote:
This is not an exaggeration. McDonald's was my first job when I was 16. Of all of the loathsome things I hated about working there, the food waste was by far the worst. It also varied tremendously depending on a day to day basis-- depending on which white-shirt management type person was there at the time. It was my job to grill the meat-- which was done constantly throughout the day. When things are being done by the book, you are technically never supposed to stop grilling. The grill itself is kind of like some giant version of a George Foreman grill, where you slap the frozen hockey pucks of meat down and close the lid. After a few moments it will pop back open on its own, where we would then collect the meat and place them into enclosed bins/trays with paper liners for the sandwich makers on the other side could access.

There are actually timers on the bins that indicate how long the meat is allowed to sit inside of them for before it must be thrown away. I think it was about 4 minutes. During non-peak hours, this meant a lot of meat got thrown out every day-- about a trash-can full as you described. But then, like I said before, it varied. Some days were busy non-stop and we'd have very little waste, usually on weekends. Some days the meat would be allowed to stay in the bins for quite a lot longer than they were supposed to.


Huh. Well, I was going to concede the fact that my information was probably close to 30 years old, so it's possible they'd changed their policies with regards to pre-cooking and timed tossing of pre-cooked patties, but given your age, it looks like they're still doing this (well, everywhere but in Chicago apparently). So I formally retract the concession I almost made!


Given my age? How old do you think I am? I was 16 working for them about 14 years ago. So it's still possible that its changed since then.
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#26 Apr 02 2015 at 6:03 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
If it's filled with old boxes and general waste then you're not throwing out a 50 gallon drum of food Smiley: tongue
Look, you won't understand unless you are familiar with the back-of-house in a burger joint.

So, really, the only recourse is for you to quit your current job and go work at McD's for a month. You'll slow your posting to a crawl but a price has to be paid for knowledge, right?



EDIT: You'll need a time machine, too. Sorry I left that out, man.Smiley: frown

Edited, Apr 2nd 2015 6:04pm by Bijou
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