Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Things we'd be talking about if the forum wasn't deadFollow

#4152 Sep 09 2017 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
Avatar
****
9,297 posts
gbaji wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the longest use of the VBF has been around since soon after the Civil War by an organization founded to recognize the soldiers who fought for the South in that war. And again, with a very strong intent to separate the flag from any connotation having to do with slavery, politics, etc.
You, of course, will provide a link to a credible cite for that comment.



ALSO: Far-be-it for be to side with Alma, but when the black guy says blacks feel a certain way about things or do or do not do certain things, I'm going to take his word for it and not that of some sheltered, privileged white dude.
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4153 Sep 09 2017 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
Avatar
****
9,297 posts
One Double Post closer to 10K, amirite?

Edited, Sep 9th 2017 1:55am by Bijou
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4154 Sep 09 2017 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
One little civil war organization didn't turn the flag into a "Southern Pride" symbol though. The KKK did. Because racism.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4155 Sep 11 2017 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
******
49,735 posts
gbaji wrote:
Sadly, the whole "I'm upset because someone on my TV told me I'm supposed to be" is far more common that it should be.
Considering you've accepted a romanticized fiction about racist idolatry, desertion and treason without question that's saying something bubula.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4156 Sep 11 2017 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
So in 20-40 years, after all those who refuse to salute have been joined by the Left in condemning the US flag and what it "really" stands for, will we also find ourselves in the situation where anyone who continues to defend its use, or salutes it, etc, will be labeled as a hater, racist, defender of a horrible system and government? If you think this is absurd, I think you are naive. We're already moving in that direction now. The question really is: Do we wake up from this silliness at some point? Or do we just keep following it down the rabbit hole and see where it leads?

It's probably telling that the nightmare scenario for Gbaji is that people stop blindly pledging fealty to a piece of cloth. I don't really see it happening -- last I checked we're still indoctrinating children with daily flag pledging but the whole concept of nationalism is based on the post-royalty ruling class wanting the lower classes to feel a moral obligation to do what they say, lest they be betraying their nation. It's much easier if you're in charge to berate people for being "unpatriotic" than to present convincing arguments for why they should give you money, die for your goals, accept the class order, not set your place on fire and steal your shit, etc. You certainly wouldn't want people questioning the established order and, once they stop swearing allegiance to the flag, that's the first step to shit going south for the top.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4157 Sep 11 2017 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
******
49,735 posts
Jophiel wrote:
It's probably telling that the nightmare scenario for Gbaji is that people stop blindly pledging fealty to a piece of cloth.
Sure, last time they fled to a foreign power and took up arms against the US.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4158 Sep 11 2017 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Got a bitchin' battle flag out of it, though.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4160 Sep 11 2017 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
******
49,735 posts
And in 20-40 years they'll have gbaji telling everyone how the Left's (who he'll insist were actually the Right) descendants condemning the flag is actually just their celebrating their culture.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4161 Sep 11 2017 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
Samira wrote:
When that becomes "a few hurricanes a week", though, it sure adds up the data points.

Also the fact that it's hitting the marks for all of the models adds a little bit of weight to the argument.
Horribly paraphrasing, but some things working against upper storm strength/frequency that aren't necessarily intuitive:

1) Increased amounts of dry air. That giant desert in Africa isn't getting any smaller, and hotter temperatures aren't going to help any.

2) Overturn with colder water keeps the frequency of the biggest storms down. Once a strong hurricane goes through an area, it's difficult to get another in the region for a while as you get mixing up of colder waters from the deep ocean.

3) More smaller storms are predicted by some models as well. Not necessarily a "few hurricanes a week," but maybe your weekly tropical depression will be a thing. A lot of smaller storms can use that energy just as well as the big ones. This, of course, is horrible for other reasons.

4) The temperature isn't forecast to go up that much. A few degrees in air and water temperature won't change the maximum potential pressure differences enough to do much beyond yielding fairly minor changes in max wind speed.

Storms that have 5-10mph higher max wind speed on average and 30% more energy in their circulation isn't the kind of thing we're going to detect without a few decades worth of data points (believe with the consensus increases somewhere around 2060-2080 we should start to have statistical significance indicating a change), especially since there's also decade-long patterns in frequency compounding the problem, which basically means more waiting before you can say something definitive. Compare that to something like what's happening in the Arctic Ocean where the temperature difference is greater, the ice cover is a lot lower, and there's a very observable increase ocean erosion, permafrost melting, wildlife behavior changing, etc. It's much easier to piece out the human-caused influence there.

All that said, I wouldn't be buying gulf-coast real estate as an investment right now.

Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
[stuff]

Which is much different from "Nope, can't talk about it shut up shut up shut up you're being so mean!!!!!!" from our EPA chief.
The NOAA page edits have been interesting. There's plenty of discussion about climate change, the potential problems, but it's downplayed pretty significantly (like if you think anything I wrote here is downplaying it, you should check out their website). Basically there's a false dichotomy contrasting works that are a little to the left of center, with ones that are basically on the far right of the spectrum. This is your ABC News vs Infowars making Fox News appear fair and balanced kind of thing; only with sciency stuff.

Edited, Sep 11th 2017 11:12am by someproteinguy
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#4162 Sep 11 2017 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Gbaji wrote:
If it was *not* true, no one would be kneeling during the National Anthem in the first place.

They're doing it precisely because their subjective view of the meaning of the US flag, and the symbolism of saluting it, is different than that of other people. The uproar occurs when two very different subjective views meet. Very much like when someone flies a VBF on his front porch, viewing its symbolism in one way, while others view it in a very different way.

Excellent job finding an example supporting my point though!
That's like saying food doesn't have taste, because people evaluate it differently. The fact that people have varying opinions on the taste, doesn't change the fact that a specific taste actually exists.

Gbaji wrote:
Yeah. Sadly, the whole "I'm upset because someone on my TV told me I'm supposed to be" is far more common that it should be. Crowds of angry people cheering the destruction of a hateful symbol, when most of them probably don't know what that statue is, who it is, or why it was erected in the first place, is just plain sad (hence my earlier point about the Stonewall Jackson plague being removed).
Likewise with the people trying to protect it. Most of them were simply following the mob.

Gbaji wrote:
You tell black folks that it's a symbol of racism, then tell them more loudly, get groups like the NAACP to condemn it, argue that anyone flying it is a racist, etc, and, as you might imagine, the number of black people flying it in any form will decrease significantly.
Given that black people aren't that stupid, I would say no. If the NAACP did that, they would simply be disowned.

*Edit* Misread original comment. Read as if the NAACP would argue for the flag. The first part of my answer is still true, Black people aren't stupid. Secondly, It's not because NAACP is telling black people not fly the flag, it's that NAACP is mostly black, and most black people don't fly confederate flags.

Gbaji wrote:
It's real meaning was not what people today are claiming it was. We're seeing retroactive re-writing of history going on, right in front of our eyes.
Gbaji wrote:
What I am trying to do is point out that this "meaning" is wholly artificial, and basically has been created over time by those seeking to enhance the perception of broad sweeping (institutionalized even!) racism in this country.
So let me get this straight. Symbols don't advocate for anything. It's fully subjective, unless it's racism, then it's wholly artificial, where the "real meaning" is just being lost.


Gbaji wrote:
What are we really accomplishing here?
The removal of symbols praised in public places (outside of museums) that represent a dark and negative history, specifically against particular US demographics.


Gbaji wrote:
If you think this is absurd, I think you are naive.
What's absurd is you saying on one end that there is no true meaning, but then argue that there is a true meaning or at least a definite wrong meaning.

Edited, Sep 12th 2017 12:56am by Almalieque

Edited, Sep 14th 2017 2:27am by Almalieque
#4163 Sep 11 2017 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
Encyclopedia
******
34,922 posts
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the longest use of the VBF swastika has been around since soon after the Civil War long before the rise of the Third Reich

Also, I might be a little bit stoned.


Also? Smiley: dubious

That's a pretty terrible comparison though. The Swastika was a clear symbol of the **** party and everything it stood for at the time of the Party's rise to power, through the entire conflict, and every day since then. The VBF was *not* a symbol of the Confederacy, was specifically *not* a symbol of anything political that the Confederacy stood for, and absolutely was *not* a symbol of slavery and racism at the time it was flown in battle, nor for a longish period of time after the conflict. It has only been interpreted this way in a relatively recent time period, well after the fact.

It would be more equivalent to a scenario where after the war, out of an effort to distance the soldiers who fought from the regime they fought for, someone had decided to adopt a battle flag used by say Rommel or Donetz (both high ranking German military leaders who, much like Lee, we respected by their opponents after the war) as a symbol to use, specifically to *not* reflect the ideals of the **** party. Now imagine, nearly a century later, some idiots decide, out of their own ignorance, that this flag is just as bad as any other representing the **** party and start banning it.

That's what this is like.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#4165 Sep 11 2017 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,228 posts
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Now, a couple weeks later, we have the largest recorded Atlantic hurricane in history about to hit Florida and EPA administrator Scott Pruitt says that it would be "insensitive" to talk about climate change and this "isn't the "ime or the place". Much like how we shouldn't talk about preventing gun deaths when a kindergarten gets shot up.
Meh, hurricanes aren't the best things to be looking at for evidence of climate change anyway. While there's a point to be made that adding more energy for a heat engine to work with leads to a fairly obvious outcome, there's enough different factors that go into hurricane intensity and frequency that the outcome isn't so obvious. The small sample size (only a few hurricanes a year) makes it difficult to draw any conclusions quickly, and there should be several other outcomes of the predicted warming that will be perceptible, and have been seen, long before we have enough data to conclude anything about hurricanes.

Sure gets people talking about it though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2017 11:04am by someproteinguy


Yes but these are the same top minds who believe that snow is proof that global warming is solved. Some times what matters is getting people on the right page, even if they can't read real good.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#4166 Sep 11 2017 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
13,228 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
It's probably telling that the nightmare scenario for Gbaji is that people stop blindly pledging fealty to a piece of cloth.
Sure, last time they fled to a foreign power and took up arms against the US.


The confederacy was explicitly not a foreign power...
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#4167 Sep 11 2017 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
***
1,064 posts
All that said, I wouldn't be buying gulf-coast real estate as an investment right now.

Well, yeah, whether the hurricanes get pumped up or not, storm surges are going to become more destructive due to rising sea levels.
____________________________
Timelordwho wrote:
I'm not quite sure that scheming is an emotion.
#4168 Sep 11 2017 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
Avatar
****
9,297 posts
gbaji wrote:
The VBF was *not* a symbol of the Confederacy, was specifically *not* a symbol of anything political that the Confederacy stood for, and absolutely was *not* a symbol of slavery and racism at the time it was flown in battle, nor for a longish period of time after the conflict. It has only been interpreted this way in a relatively recent time period, well after the fact.
Because you say so?
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
Last week, I saw a guy with an eyepatch and a gold monocle and pointed him out to Flea as one of the most awesome things I've seen, ever. If I had an eyepatch and a gold monocle, I'd always dress up as Mr. Peanut but with a hook hand and a parrot.
#4169 Sep 12 2017 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
3,355 posts
gbaji wrote:
Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
gbaji wrote:
I'd also like to point out that the longest use of the VBF swastika has been around since soon after the Civil War long before the rise of the Third Reich

Also, I might be a little bit stoned.


Also? Smiley: dubious


I had deleted the stupid comment that that referenced

gbaji wrote:
...out of an effort to distance the soldiers who fought from the regime they fought for, someone had decided to adopt a battle flag used by say Rommel or Donetz (both high ranking German military leaders who My favorite Nahtzi's...


FTFY

Edited, Sep 11th 2017 11:40pm by stupidmonkey
____________________________
Dandruffshampoo wrote:
Curses, beaten by Professor stupidopo-opo.
Annabella, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Stupidmonkey is more organized than a bag of raccoons.
#4170 Sep 12 2017 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
******
49,735 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
The confederacy was explicitly not a foreign power...
It was more concise than saying "they seceded and formed their own autonomous group with their own military," and conveys the same idea.
Bijou wrote:
Because you say so?
Come on, you know racists are the most honest and trustworthy people in the world.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4171 Sep 12 2017 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Now, a couple weeks later, we have the largest recorded Atlantic hurricane in history about to hit Florida and EPA administrator Scott Pruitt says that it would be "insensitive" to talk about climate change and this "isn't the "ime or the place". Much like how we shouldn't talk about preventing gun deaths when a kindergarten gets shot up.
Meh, hurricanes aren't the best things to be looking at for evidence of climate change anyway. While there's a point to be made that adding more energy for a heat engine to work with leads to a fairly obvious outcome, there's enough different factors that go into hurricane intensity and frequency that the outcome isn't so obvious. The small sample size (only a few hurricanes a year) makes it difficult to draw any conclusions quickly, and there should be several other outcomes of the predicted warming that will be perceptible, and have been seen, long before we have enough data to conclude anything about hurricanes.

Sure gets people talking about it though.

Edited, Sep 8th 2017 11:04am by someproteinguy


Yes but these are the same top minds who believe that snow is proof that global warming is solved. Some times what matters is getting people on the right page, even if they can't read real good.
I suppose if there's a time I'd ever go for over-hyping something it'd be when there's a Cat 5 hurricane coming at you, and you needed to get everything necessary to get stubborn dumb people the **** out of the way. Really though, all you're doing though is feeding up softballs to the warming deniers. The matter is still up in the air with this particular issue, shouldn't sell it to people as a done-deal, as they'll eventually realize there's still debate on the subject and use that as a reason to doubt the larger trend.

Then again if you're still the type of person who doesn't think Earth's climate can change, there's probably no reason to suspect logic or science would help get you on board at this point. Smiley: rolleyes
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#4172 Sep 13 2017 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
******
49,735 posts
The Zodiac Killer likes pr0n.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4173 Sep 13 2017 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Meat Popsicle
*****
13,369 posts
Republicans always have such disappointing tastes when it comes to those kinds of things.

Smiley: disappointed
____________________________
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
#4174 Sep 13 2017 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,373 posts
With how Patriotic Americans are, if 20-40 years from now, people will be admonishing the US flag, then that means normal countries should be doing so to their own about 30 years ago.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#4175 Sep 14 2017 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
******
49,735 posts
Except most of the green red and white flags. Those'll fly no matter what.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#4176 Sep 14 2017 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
See? If the right-wingers were creative, they'd convince everyone that the Mexican flag was horribly racist and hateful and then they wouldn't have to see it any more.

My deepest concern is, after Gbaji's dystopian vision of flag hating comes to pass, how will we decorate our used car lots?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 76 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (76)