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#227 Feb 11 2015 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Story wrote:
The principal suspended the 14-year-old last week for ten days, but he's recommending long-term suspension or expulsion.

Right. Because calling federal authorities and recommending some kid be kicked out of school is definitely some A-Class school administration.
lolgaxe wrote:
They weren't making a statement, they were throwing random shit out a window.

Agreed. But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply. If he was treating "throwing a flag out the window" the same as "throwing a textbook out the window" then there'd be no reason to bring up "protected free speech".

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 1:53pm by Jophiel
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#228 Feb 11 2015 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Except it's only protected speech if it's your flag. Assuming this was a planted flag serving its purpose as a flag and not just a flag sitting on a shelf or something, then it's arguable that the law in question applies. Whether this is a massive over reaction is a whole different story.

Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself. I'm not opposed to the idea of drilling into the kids heads that you don't treat a flag like any other random object in a room, but I don't think filing federal charges is the right way to go. Maybe have a school assembly with some military veterans to teach the kids about flags and how to properly handle them. It's not something that most kids are taught nowadays, so this would probably be a great way to go.
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#229 Feb 11 2015 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself..


When I rode the bus, things like that were handled by the driver. A student was caught throwing things out of the window, he/she was given an isle seat in the first or second row and that was his/her assigned seat for the length of the punishment. Only if the behavior continued or go worse were more actions taken.
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#230 Feb 11 2015 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Frankly, the 10 day suspension sounds about right for tossing stuff out the window by itself..


When I rode the bus, things like that were handled by the driver. A student was caught throwing things out of the window, he/she was given an isle seat in the first or second row and that was his/her assigned seat for the length of the punishment. Only if the behavior continued or go worse were more actions taken.


This didn't happen on the bus. It was students tossing stuff out the classroom window. Not sure what the teacher was doing, or why it wasn't stopped earlier, but at some point one of the students decided that it would be fun to grab the classroom flag and toss it out the window as well. I'm assuming all of the students got some kind of punishment for throwing things out the classroom window. The flag thing is just an extra element.
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#231 Feb 11 2015 at 7:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Except it's only protected speech if it's your flag.

No, it's protected speech either way. That doesn't shield you from responsibility for stealing the flag or destroying someone else's property of course but the anti-desecration laws that have been repeatedly found to be unconstitutional don't suddenly become valid that way.

If I steal a printer and run off a hundred copies of my treatise of why the president is a poopy-head, my constitutional protection to call the president a poopy-head isn't nullified by the fact that the printer was stolen. If I'm a Native American of a select tribe and steal my neighbor's eagle feathers, I'm guilty of theft but my First Amendment protections to own eagle feathers for religious purposes still hold intact. I can't imagine why you'd think it's otherwise.

Edited, Feb 11th 2015 7:51pm by Jophiel
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#232 Feb 11 2015 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. Not sure where I got bus from... I read through it while at work on my phone and thought it was talking about bus. Maybe I just didn't think of the possibility of it otherwise. Like, the windows in my high school didn't really open enough for people to throw stuff out.
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#233 Feb 11 2015 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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The feds? Come on. What happened to the days when the teacher would put the unruly kid in a choke-hold and send them all down to the principal's office for a paddling? Principal was a veteran? Then he surely should be capable of putting a boot up the kid's ***.

Now I'm afraid somebody's gonna turn me over to the G men because I broke my mom's little car-door flag off while shoveling snow. Smiley: frown
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#234 Feb 12 2015 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
The feds? Come on. What happened to the days when the teacher would put the unruly kid in a choke-hold and send them all down to the principal's office for a paddling? Principal was a veteran? Then he surely should be capable of putting a boot up the kid's ***.

Now I'm afraid somebody's gonna turn me over to the G men because I broke my mom's little car-door flag off while shoveling snow. Smiley: frown
We got swatted.

There was a butt swatter, with three holes in it, that hung prominently on the wall behind the principal's desk.

If the boys were caught doing something dastardly during PE class they would have to take their swatting on the diving board...in the buff.
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#235 Feb 12 2015 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
If the boys were caught doing something dastardly during PE class they would have to take their swatting on the diving board...in the buff.
That's a little ****** up.
#236 Feb 12 2015 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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I know.

There was recently a post on my fb from classmates reminiscing about our Junior high school PE class. The boys had to swim in the buff, the girls had to use shared swimsuits (unless you were in the first class of the day, you had to put on a wet suit someone else had just swam in). At the time it all seemed quite normal, but from the comments maybe it wasn't quite...normal. Though, this was the practice across our whole district.
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#237 Feb 12 2015 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply.
But there was no speech here.
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#238 Feb 12 2015 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
But, if the principal is trying to make a (literal!) federal case out of it because it's a flag then the protections for screwing with a flag should apply.
But there was no speech here.

They were throwing books out the window too.
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#239 Feb 12 2015 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I know.

There was recently a post on my fb from classmates reminiscing about our Junior high school PE class. The boys had to swim in the buff, the girls had to use shared swimsuits (unless you were in the first class of the day, you had to put on a wet suit someone else had just swam in). At the time it all seemed quite normal, but from the comments maybe it wasn't quite...normal. Though, this was the practice across our whole district.

Eww.
#240 Feb 12 2015 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
But there was no speech here.

Impossible to prove or disprove. I mean, I agree with you but all the kid has to do is say "I did it because..." and there you go.

Besides, anti-desecration laws are about speech as well. You don't get arrested for dropping a flag or letting it get mildewed in your attic, you get arrested for setting one on fire at a protest. Simple mistreatment or lack of care isn't desecration. So unless you're trying to prove that the kid was intentionally targeting the flag for a specific reason, you don't have desecration. But if you're making that case, you're making the case that the kid was engaged in speech/expression which is constitutionally protected.
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#241 Feb 12 2015 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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It's just a ******* piece of cloth.
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#242 Feb 12 2015 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's that, too. Personally, I'd say that a $13 piece of made-in-China cloth with stars and stripes on it deserves the same legal protections as a $13 made-in-China t-shirt. Probably because I hate America. The idea that we'd deify an object to the point of subverting the very ideals it represents is baffling.
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#243 Feb 12 2015 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Terrorist! Smiley: mad
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#244 Feb 12 2015 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
The idea that we'd deify an object to the point of subverting the very ideals it represents is baffling.
Wait, are we still talking about the flag or the cross?
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#245 Feb 12 2015 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Of all the items mentioned being ejected from the open window, I would imagine the flag to be the least offensive as it's not likely to injure an unsuspecting passer-by.

Edited, Feb 12th 2015 4:50pm by Elinda
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#246 Feb 12 2015 at 9:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Wait, are we still talking about the flag or the cross?

This is America; they're one and the same.
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#247 Feb 12 2015 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Of all the items mentioned being ejected from the open window, I would imagine the flag to be the least offensive as it's not likely to injure an unsuspecting passer-by.

Edited, Feb 12th 2015 4:50pm by Elinda
As long as it's not attached to a pole/pike.
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#248 Feb 12 2015 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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A well folded flag can knock out a tooth.

Hypothetically. Hypothetically a well folded flag can knock out a tooth. Probably.
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#249 Feb 12 2015 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Hypothetically. Hypothetically a well folded flag can knock out a tooth. Probably.
Your internet lawyers advise that you discontinue speaking further of any such hypothetical incident.
#250 Feb 12 2015 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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#251 Feb 12 2015 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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House Republicans are demanding that McConnell abolish the filibuster for spending bills so they can pass their DHS funding legislation Smiley: laugh
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