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Jezebel's Complete Guide to Hipster RacismFollow

#77 May 02 2012 at 11:10 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Demea wrote:
Miley Cyrus is racist against Heroin-Addicted Americans?


Can't you tell? She took everything that was good and pure about being a lazy drug-addicted low-life and bastardized it.

I was more offended by her muffin top than by her rendition of the song.
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#78 May 02 2012 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Atomicflea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think there's injustice being perpetrated on anyone's culture on account of songs being covered/sampled. That's the difference.
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

Isn't it inherently racist to have different standards for different cultures?
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#79 May 02 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Demea wrote:
Miley Cyrus is racist against Heroin-Addicted Americans?


Can't you tell? She took everything that was good and pure about being a lazy drug-addicted low-life and bastardized it.

I was more offended by her muffin top than by her rendition of the song.


Well sure, but lets leave that determination to the lazy drug-addicted low-lifes. We shouldn't be speaking for other cultures. Smiley: wink
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#80 May 02 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Thread needs more Weird Al.

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#81 May 02 2012 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think there's injustice being perpetrated on anyone's culture on account of songs being covered/sampled. That's the difference.
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

Isn't it inherently racist to have different standards for different cultures?

That's the sort of typical generalization that doesn't hold up when what you are setting the standards for is one race's determination if what is okay or appropriate for another. Like I might feel like Jews are a bunch of whiny cnuts and shut up about Israel already, but I would never hold my views as having equal to or more weight than an actual Jewish person, our an Israelite simply because I'm awesome and yay me.
#82 May 02 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Atomicflea wrote:
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

I have the same bona fides as the Jezebel chick to make that call Smiley: grin
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#83 May 02 2012 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Atomicflea wrote:
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think there's injustice being perpetrated on anyone's culture on account of songs being covered/sampled. That's the difference.
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

Isn't it inherently racist to have different standards for different cultures?

That's the sort of typical generalization that doesn't hold up when what you are setting the standards for is one race's determination if what is okay or appropriate for another. Like I might feel like Jews are a bunch of whiny cnuts and shut up about Israel already, but I would never hold my views as having equal to or more weight than an actual Jewish person, our an Israelite simply because I'm awesome and yay me.

I guess I should specify that I meant general/societal standards, not personal/racial standards. Should there even be a discussion about whether or not it's okay to sample music by white guys as opposed to music by black guys? Shouldn't the discussion simply be whether or not it's okay to sample anybody else's music, regardless of race?

Like Joph, I fail to see how the race of the original artist has anything to do with the issue of stealing borrowing music specifically.
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#84 May 02 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
Atomicflea wrote:
Demea wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
I don't think there's injustice being perpetrated on anyone's culture on account of songs being covered/sampled. That's the difference.
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

Isn't it inherently racist to have different standards for different cultures?

That's the sort of typical generalization that doesn't hold up when what you are setting the standards for is one race's determination if what is okay or appropriate for another. Like I might feel like Jews are a bunch of whiny cnuts and shut up about Israel already, but I would never hold my views as having equal to or more weight than an actual Jewish person, our an Israelite simply because I'm awesome and yay me.


Why is a black man's music owned by his culture (whatever that means)?
#85 May 02 2012 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
What I'm saying is that I think you lack the bona fides to make that call on behalf of other cultures.

I have the same bona fides as the Jezebel chick to make that call Smiley: grin
You would if you were advocating. Don't expect the same if you are opposing, however tokenly. Smiley: grin Smiley: grin
#86 May 02 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Atomicflea wrote:
You would if you were advocating.

Smiley: rolleyes
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#87 May 02 2012 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
Why is a black man's music owned by his culture (whatever that means)?


I'll take a stab. We like to over-generalize our personal feelings to our 'cultural group?'

Just for fun, let's stick with the Nirvana/grunge thing as a 'white people' example. Take the more rural areas of Western Washington in the 80s and early 90s. It was an area suffering from the inevitable decline of the traditional logging and fishing industries which had been powering along unsustainably for years. There's high unemployment, and a general feeling of hopelessness with many people as their towns are more or less shutting down around them. Suddenly there are no good jobs around, and there really isn't much hope of finding anything without moving out of the area, leaving your family behind, etc. Heaven help your prospects if you're a youth growing up in that area. So out of that you get this "dark, gloomy, woe-is-me" Seattle sound that was particularly reflective of the local culture at the time. So does it seem particularly weird when some silver-spoon Disney Princess takes up a grunge song? Are there people who would get offended by it? Um yeah, but seriously try defining a universal cultural boundary there or something.

It's not exactly black and white... Smiley: clown

Okay, awful pun I know... Smiley: frown



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#88 May 02 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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"Black music" owes its popularity to a few daring white men anyway. Not to mention that jazz and blues, from which hip hop grew, gained its popularity by being played by black musicians for white patrons in swanky clubs in New Orleans, Tupelo, Memphis, St Louis, and Chicago.
#89 May 02 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
So does it seem particularly weird when some silver-spoon Disney Princess takes up a grunge song?

Sure, but it's hardly offensive. I'm sure someone out there is either amused by it or thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree but it's nothing to take up arms about.
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Are there people who would get offended by it?

There's someone offended by everything. If they can't give me a good reason for it, I reserve the right to not give a fuck.
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#90 May 02 2012 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Demea wrote:
I guess I should specify that I meant general/societal standards, not personal/racial standards. Should there even be a discussion about whether or not it's okay to sample music by white guys as opposed to music by black guys? Shouldn't the discussion simply be whether or not it's okay to sample anybody else's music, regardless of race?

Like Joph, I fail to see how the race of the original artist has anything to do with the issue of stealing borrowing music specifically.
I don't know that you can divorce the individual from society. Maybe other minorities can speak to this, but even when I was completely unattached to either my femaleness or otherness inevitably comes up much more than I want it to. The thing is that there is very little control over how you are viewed from the outside. There is a presumption that would not otherwise exist, whatever that presumption may be. I can see an artist or art form being very proprietary of that expression being converted to something other than what they intended, and that is only compounded by issues of race.

In short, yes you can have that discussion, but not regardless of race. This world where race isn't a consideration, I don't think it exists.
#91 May 02 2012 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Isn't racism, at its root, about respect? I respect you as a person and not because of what race you are or are not. I afford everyone an equal amount of respect, regardless of their race. I don't disrespect someone purely because they belong to any specific race (or don't belong).

For the music argument, I see an argument that "black" music has to be afforded a level of respect from "white" artists that "black" musicians don't have to give "white" artists/music on account of them being black and white artists being white. There's probably no argument that will get me on board with that.
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#92 May 02 2012 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
So does it seem particularly weird when some silver-spoon Disney Princess takes up a grunge song?

Sure, but it's hardly offensive. I'm sure someone out there is either amused by it or thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. I disagree but it's nothing to take up arms about.


Don't belittle the hopelessness we all felt! Smiley: mad

(Did I generalize that enough?)

Anyway, so much for my foray into strawman building and devils advocate work. I guess I'll keep my day job... Smiley: lol

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#93 May 02 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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We need to wrap this up. There's three more points to get through after this music one before we've solved racism.
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#94 May 02 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Atomicflea wrote:
You would if you were advocating.

Smiley: rolleyes

I can't think of someone asking you for bona fides when a person not a member or a minority group advocates for a position on that subject as opposed to arguing against it, but maybe you can. Lord knows you know more about anything than anyone else. Smiley: grinSmiley: grinSmiley: grin
#95 May 02 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I am the Jophiel; I speak for the classic rock artists.

That's advocating!
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#96 May 02 2012 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Atomicflea wrote:
In short, yes you can have that discussion, but not regardless of race. This world where race isn't a consideration, I don't think it exists.

Not if we keep inevitably bringing race into the discussion!

Be the change you want to see in the world, Flea!
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#97 May 02 2012 at 3:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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#98 May 02 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm impressed that the blogger didn't bother to research music history before making her absurd statement of racism.

Ragtime, Blues, Jazz, even Rock and Roll all have 2 things in common. 1: They all originated in the southern United States. 2: They are an amalgamation on European ( "white") and African ( "black") Music.

None of them would exist if "Whites" didn't play "Black" music and vice versa. Her statement shows a gross ignorance of how music as an art form evolves.

tl;dr : Embracing and incorporating elements from other cultures isn't racist. Calling it racist however, is pretty damn stupid.
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#99 May 02 2012 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
Demea wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Demea wrote:
Miley Cyrus is racist against Heroin-Addicted Americans?


Can't you tell? She took everything that was good and pure about being a lazy drug-addicted low-life and bastardized it.

I was more offended by her muffin top than by her rendition of the song.


Fatist. Smiley: tongue

Thanks for better explaining what I was trying to say Sweetums.

In reference to the black women have pretty hair thing, I know it isn't exactly a stereotype, but some white women do have a tendency to exoticize black women's hair, like in the example I gave. Like other people have mentioned, black women's hair is a BFD, and I think it's probably a big part of their culture (I obviously can't say this with complete certainty since I'm not a black woman). To have a white woman come up to them and exclaim how awesome their hair is and basically demand to know how they do their hair so they can replicate it, that's gotta be pretty off-putting, not to mention objectifying.

Edited, May 2nd 2012 4:43pm by PigtailsOfDoom
#100 May 02 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Demea wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Demea wrote:
Miley Cyrus is racist against Heroin-Addicted Americans?


Can't you tell? She took everything that was good and pure about being a lazy drug-addicted low-life and bastardized it.

I was more offended by her muffin top than by her rendition of the song.


Fatist. Smiley: tongue

Thanks for better explaining what I was trying to say Sweetums.


Apparently she's been hitting the gym to get ready for bikini season (TMZ said so, I think), so you don't have to worry about that muffin top anymore. No more need to be offended.
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#101 May 02 2012 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Demea wrote:
Miley Cyrus is racist against Heroin-Addicted Americans?


No, against humans in general.
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