I just picked up bst (only to about lvl 30 so far). I decided to level bst so I could be self sufficient (previously leveled whm and got sick of asking the ls for help when I wanted something to drop). So I'm leveling it with the intention of having a job that I can solo nms with for drops. But the more I read the testimonials on some of the higher level nms the more I'm starting to see more of these being solo'd by rdm/nin.
Did I misunderstand the soloing capabilities of bst? Clearly it is "the premier solo class" in terms of exp, but can I take on higher level nms solo? I'm having way more fun on bst than any other job I've tried so far so I'm hoping you guys can reassure me. :D
Also, any other related advice would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks for the help.
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Soloing NMsFollow
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QuoteDid I misunderstand the soloing capabilities of bst? Clearly it is "the premier solo class" in terms of exp, but can I take on higher level nms solo?
As for hunting NMs, it depends on what you're looking to solo. If a RDM can bind, grav and Bio III a mob, then it's probable they can solo. And this is a long list. BST is bound by the availability of nearby mobs, as well as the honesty of other players. (Mobs often go unclaimed during pet swaps.)
That being said, there are some mobs I would never want to solo as a RDM, where BST works great. It's just that the notable list is longer for RDMs.
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I'm having way more fun on bst than any other job I've tried so far so I'm hoping you guys can reassure me.
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
For that matter, there's things where DNC and NIN (often using the other as a subjob) are supposed to be an excellent combination, and I've also heard of things where the ability to chop down casting times with SCH was what turned the tide. There's no one-size-fits-all job when it comes to NM solos. (Although RDM is definitely a one-size-fits-lots job.)
Also, as far as the levelling part goes, a lot of these jobs can do quite well as /BST, so that may be something to consider, depending on what you do or don't want to level in parties. (Actually, probably all of these jobs. I haven't personally done any SCH/BST, but I'm pretty sure that one could do just about anything I've done on BLM/BST.)
~sleepygirl
Also, as far as the levelling part goes, a lot of these jobs can do quite well as /BST, so that may be something to consider, depending on what you do or don't want to level in parties. (Actually, probably all of these jobs. I haven't personally done any SCH/BST, but I'm pretty sure that one could do just about anything I've done on BLM/BST.)
~sleepygirl
i started leveling BST for the same reason as you, to solo NMs because i was tired of always needed help.. and now that i am 75, is it as strong of a NM slasher as i thought? no.. BUT i have solo'd many things that only BST can.
Ose, LoO, Despot, solo'd many sets of CoP subligar, SOLO'd the Minotaur in Phomiuna Aqueducts (i KNOW BST is the only job that can do that), just to name a few. keep in mind i have only been 75 for less than 6 months but i have solo'd many NMs.
that being said.. yes there are still NMs out there that BST has no business with. these same testimonials of RDM/NIN, NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN soloing them but BST cant.. honestly my next 75 will be NIN for this very reason. RDM/NIN is a powerhouse i know.. but i have never leveled rdm and dont plan on it.
all of this being said.. if you enjoy BST then play it.. tons of freedom not only in gearing yourself, subjobs and play style, when you want exp you just go get it and stop when you want to (no sitting around with a flag up and then searching endlessly for a rep when your ready to leave). not to mention when you hit 75BST it feels like an elite club you just walked into.
Edited, Feb 16th 2010 10:56am by KkKRAZYKkK
Ose, LoO, Despot, solo'd many sets of CoP subligar, SOLO'd the Minotaur in Phomiuna Aqueducts (i KNOW BST is the only job that can do that), just to name a few. keep in mind i have only been 75 for less than 6 months but i have solo'd many NMs.
that being said.. yes there are still NMs out there that BST has no business with. these same testimonials of RDM/NIN, NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN soloing them but BST cant.. honestly my next 75 will be NIN for this very reason. RDM/NIN is a powerhouse i know.. but i have never leveled rdm and dont plan on it.
all of this being said.. if you enjoy BST then play it.. tons of freedom not only in gearing yourself, subjobs and play style, when you want exp you just go get it and stop when you want to (no sitting around with a flag up and then searching endlessly for a rep when your ready to leave). not to mention when you hit 75BST it feels like an elite club you just walked into.
Edited, Feb 16th 2010 10:56am by KkKRAZYKkK
KkKRAZYKkK wrote:
honestly my next 75 will be NIN for this very reason. RDM/NIN is a powerhouse i know.. but i have never leveled rdm and dont plan on it.
I think a lot of people hear the tales of RDM/NIN (or /whatever) soloing amazing things, and it becomes accepted as gospel that RDM is brokenly powerful. I don't think that's entirely accurate. RDM is very, very, very dependant on gear and merits. If you don't have +movement, or AF2 hat/morrigan's, or amazing nuke gear, there are a lot of technically RDM-soloable NMs that you just have absolutely no chance at. One of the main differences between RDM and BST soloing is that any 75 BST with good enough CHR gear to charm the local pets (and enough skill) can generally solo the BST-soloable NMs.
I don't like the RDM strategies of kiting really, I prefer squaring off with something and hitting each other until one of us dies (maybe I am a bit unsubtle lol - I guess that's why I'm a tank :3). As for NIN, my NIN is sadly under-geared (I just never focused enough gil/merits/attendance points on it tbh), but I do really enjoy the groove of NIN/DNC. BST is obviously great fun, but it can be so stressful trying to keep one move ahead of the mob in terms of having your next pet lined up etc. Not to mention asshats stealing them from you.
My favourite job for NMs is actually PLD, but that only really works well duo (well-geared PLD/NIN and RDM/ combo is amazing tho, those have been some of my most fun fights for sure)
KisharBlack wrote:
KkKRAZYKkK wrote:
honestly my next 75 will be NIN for this very reason. RDM/NIN is a powerhouse i know.. but i have never leveled rdm and dont plan on it.
I think a lot of people hear the tales of RDM/NIN (or /whatever) soloing amazing things, and it becomes accepted as gospel that RDM is brokenly powerful. I don't think that's entirely accurate. RDM is very, very, very dependant on gear and merits. If you don't have +movement, or AF2 hat/morrigan's, or amazing nuke gear, there are a lot of technically RDM-soloable NMs that you just have absolutely no chance at. One of the main differences between RDM and BST soloing is that any 75 BST with good enough CHR gear to charm the local pets (and enough skill) can generally solo the BST-soloable NMs.
That's not entirely true. While gear/merits are obviously more of a factor for rdm than bst, most nms don't really require very much. I've managed to solo damn near every soloable nm with no refresh body, no wlegs, gimp merits, etc. The gear required for most things is easily attainable. Hell, even harder things like suzaku can be done with a half assed haste set, and a decent mdb/fire res set.
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BUT i have solo'd many things that only BST can.
Ose, LoO, Despot, solo'd many sets of CoP subligar, [...], just to name a few.
Ose, LoO, Despot, solo'd many sets of CoP subligar, [...], just to name a few.
You are sadly mistaken if you don't think other jobs can do that. Ose is incredibly easy for rdm+other jobs, loO isn't much harder. Despot can be done by a 40 rdm, or any job with a ranged attack even.
Bst is certainly a pretty decent solo job, but it really doesn't compare to rdm. I honestly can't think of anything bst can solo that rdm can't, except things like swift belt nm, etc that rdm could easily do if not for the level cap. There's probably something that bst can do that rdm can't, but i highly doubt that list has more than 1-2 nms on it.
Edited, Feb 16th 2010 9:54pm by ThePsychoticOne
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Quote:
I honestly can't think of anything bst can solo that rdm can't, except things like swift belt nm, etc that rdm could easily do if not for the level cap. There's probably something that bst can do that rdm can't, but i highly doubt that list has more than 1-2 nms on it.
RNG:75 MNK:75 WHM:75 BRD:75 BST:75 SAM:75 WAR:75 THF:75 BLM:75
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
DRG:72 SMN:63 DRK:55 NIN:49 PLD:42 RDM:41 DNC:37 SCH:37 BLU:37 COR:20 PUP:22
Woodworking:88 Cooking:60 Alchemy:60 Bone:60 Leather:60 Cloth:60 Smithing:60 Gold:54 Fishing:33
Princess ThePsychoticOne wrote:
KisharBlack wrote:
I think a lot of people hear the tales of RDM/NIN (or /whatever) soloing amazing things, and it becomes accepted as gospel that RDM is brokenly powerful. I don't think that's entirely accurate. RDM is very, very, very dependant on gear and merits. If you don't have +movement, or AF2 hat/morrigan's, or amazing nuke gear, there are a lot of technically RDM-soloable NMs that you just have absolutely no chance at. One of the main differences between RDM and BST soloing is that any 75 BST with good enough CHR gear to charm the local pets (and enough skill) can generally solo the BST-soloable NMs.
That's not entirely true. While gear/merits are obviously more of a factor for rdm than bst, most nms don't really require very much. I've managed to solo damn near every soloable nm with no refresh body, no wlegs, gimp merits, etc. The gear required for most things is easily attainable. Hell, even harder things like suzaku can be done with a half assed haste set, and a decent mdb/fire res set.
I guess it's fair that my calling out of a generalisation also got called out for being a bit too much of a generalisation! But yeah, the fact that gear/merits matter *more* for RDM than BST was mostly what I was trying to say. There are definitely NMs that are possible for RDM to solo if they're well-geared and highly skilled, but would be nigh-on impossible for a RDM with less skill/gear. That's generally not the case for BST.
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You are sadly mistaken if you don't think other jobs can do that. Ose is incredibly easy for rdm+other jobs, loO isn't much harder. Despot can be done by a 40 rdm, or any job with a ranged attack even.
I remember being so proud the first time I managed to solo Ose on PLD lol. I'd done it before on RDM/WHM but wanted to 'challenge myself'. *nostalgia* It had gotten old by the time he finally dropped the damn jerkin for me though...
Edited, Feb 17th 2010 9:27am by KisharBlack
Ose can be soloed on BLM as well, as I have done it several times.
To often, we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remeber when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and bitch slap that MOTHERF@#$%R upside the head
@ Slowlocke:
i wouldn't worry that much about the fact that rdms have a longer list of nms they can possibly solo.
my bst has been lvl 75 for about 3 years now. i've soloed/low-manned a lot of nms already but i'm sill far from having fought all the nms i possibly could. so... as long as you don't have an insane amount of time to spend in game you'll be very busy alone with finishing off those nms that appear on the "beastmaster list".
additionally have in mind that there can be heavy competition on nms that have very useful or expensive drops. claiming such a nm and getting the desired item to drop can become a very time consuming task (example for bad luck: i had to fight balor about 30 times before i finally and very happily received my swift belt... i don't even WANT to remember how much gil and time i blew on buying/farming the spawn-item).
to spice things up you can search yourself some trusty "friends" later on to low-man nms with. smn, pup, nin, dnc, blu and rdm make excellent bst-buddies to enlarge your "list of nms" and have an extra portion of fun with.
let the good times role!
i wouldn't worry that much about the fact that rdms have a longer list of nms they can possibly solo.
my bst has been lvl 75 for about 3 years now. i've soloed/low-manned a lot of nms already but i'm sill far from having fought all the nms i possibly could. so... as long as you don't have an insane amount of time to spend in game you'll be very busy alone with finishing off those nms that appear on the "beastmaster list".
additionally have in mind that there can be heavy competition on nms that have very useful or expensive drops. claiming such a nm and getting the desired item to drop can become a very time consuming task (example for bad luck: i had to fight balor about 30 times before i finally and very happily received my swift belt... i don't even WANT to remember how much gil and time i blew on buying/farming the spawn-item).
to spice things up you can search yourself some trusty "friends" later on to low-man nms with. smn, pup, nin, dnc, blu and rdm make excellent bst-buddies to enlarge your "list of nms" and have an extra portion of fun with.
let the good times role!
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You are sadly mistaken if you don't think other jobs can do that. Ose is incredibly easy for rdm+other jobs, loO isn't much harder. Despot can be done by a 40 rdm, or any job with a ranged attack even.
ok ok i wasnt trying to say that other jobs cant do those things, like i said i know that other jobs are much better at soloing some NMs than BST, but there are a select few that BST will out solo any other job. i was just trying to let the original post know that his BST is still good for some NMs later on lol.
KkKRAZYKkK wrote:
Quote:
You are sadly mistaken if you don't think other jobs can do that. Ose is incredibly easy for rdm+other jobs, loO isn't much harder. Despot can be done by a 40 rdm, or any job with a ranged attack even.
ok ok i wasnt trying to say that other jobs cant do those things, like i said i know that other jobs are much better at soloing some NMs than BST, but there are a select few that BST will out solo any other job. i was just trying to let the original post know that his BST is still good for some NMs later on lol.
Ah, ok. I won't argue that point, as i've never played bst, though i am a bit skeptical.
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Quote:
Ah, ok. I won't argue that point, as i've never played bst, though i am a bit skeptical.
hmmmm.
merrow no. 5, swift belt nm, minotaur, eba come to my mind and are only bst-soloable as far as i know.
As some above posters said, Bst is very reliant on natural pets. not only natural pets, more specifically a small number of Charmable natural pets that can give and take at least a small beating to/fro the NM. if these requirements are met then Bst can solo anything. Jug pets are also helpful for soloing nms (thats a whole other thread though)
When it comes to the higher lvl NMs, with Rdm if ya cant gravity or kite it, ya cant kill it.
My point is other jobs are the same in that if the NM/environment fulfill a certain criteria then it can be killed by the suitable job.
Bst has this label of being a great NM soloer because what we solo, we can solo well. we can solo exp and merit better than any other job out there but when it comes to NMs we are just like everything else... Situational.
as many Bsts would agree. you start to level bst because you wanna solo and you continue to level bst because you fall in love.
p.s. Better gear and merits open the door for more soloable nms. there is no such thing as "gear/merits matter *more* for RDM than BST".
When it comes to the higher lvl NMs, with Rdm if ya cant gravity or kite it, ya cant kill it.
My point is other jobs are the same in that if the NM/environment fulfill a certain criteria then it can be killed by the suitable job.
Bst has this label of being a great NM soloer because what we solo, we can solo well. we can solo exp and merit better than any other job out there but when it comes to NMs we are just like everything else... Situational.
as many Bsts would agree. you start to level bst because you wanna solo and you continue to level bst because you fall in love.
p.s. Better gear and merits open the door for more soloable nms. there is no such thing as "gear/merits matter *more* for RDM than BST".
Firahs wrote:
When it comes to the higher lvl NMs, with Rdm if ya cant gravity or kite it, ya cant kill it.
Not even close to true. Ignoring the fact that gravity sucks, and just assuming you mean bind, Rdm is still an amazing straight tank soloist. Suzy for example can't be kited, and even frequently wipes shadows with firaga, and is still soloable.
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Bst has this label of being a great NM soloer because what we solo, we can solo well. we can solo exp and merit better than any other job out there
It was my understanding that bst solo exp was rather mediocre usually, no? My old rdm used to get 13-15k/hr solo, can bst beat that?
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exp per hour for bst is about 6k max. i'd say. can be less or more depending on camp (and later on a bit on gear/merits).
i'd like to know how/where you got those 13-15k of solo exp with your rdm. that seems to be far too much (on the other hand i never levelled rdm). please, don't feel offended but i just can't believe in that statement of yours.
i hope that number didn't refer to only one single camp available at a certain lvl-range because there are bst-camps (thinking about djinn camp in east ronfaure (s)) where you can pull in very high numbers of exp/h.
but since these very great camps are exceptions i ignore those when talking about how much exp a bst can usually pull in per hour.
and before someone is led to wrong conclusions: no, i don't think bst is better than rdm or any other job. bst is just bst. and it's very unique way of fighting and soloing is what i like so much about the job.
i'd like to know how/where you got those 13-15k of solo exp with your rdm. that seems to be far too much (on the other hand i never levelled rdm). please, don't feel offended but i just can't believe in that statement of yours.
i hope that number didn't refer to only one single camp available at a certain lvl-range because there are bst-camps (thinking about djinn camp in east ronfaure (s)) where you can pull in very high numbers of exp/h.
but since these very great camps are exceptions i ignore those when talking about how much exp a bst can usually pull in per hour.
and before someone is led to wrong conclusions: no, i don't think bst is better than rdm or any other job. bst is just bst. and it's very unique way of fighting and soloing is what i like so much about the job.
Wild karakuls, with kc, killing the chigoes with blaze spikes. Of course most people won't have kc, but i've heard of other people getting 15k/hr on imps too.
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Firahs wrote:
p.s. Better gear and merits open the door for more soloable nms. there is no such thing as "gear/merits matter *more* for RDM than BST".
I stand by my statement. There are things which RDM can solo that get exponentially harder if you don't have certain merits or gear sets. As a random example, I'm reasonably certain that Seiryu is effectively impossible to solo without AMAZING bind gear and the enfeebling and ice m.acc merits to back it up. And Bio III. And a really good haste set for Utsu. And auto-refresh gear.
I can't think of an equivalent for BST, where not having specific merits makes it almost impossible. The closest I can think would be things where your CHR set needs to be strong to reliably charm the local pets.
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we can solo exp and merit better than any other job out there
I love my BST, but I just can't agree with this. BLU, BLM, SCH all have higher exp/hr potential than us solo at many levels, and I'm sure there are other jobs too.
Especially at merit level, we're just too limited in the camps available to us. Now if they made another bomb camp (or three) which were at a perfect level for meriting, it might be different.
I'd also love to see a camp which is perfect for parties of BSTs at merit level too, something with non-aggro/non-linking kickass pets, targeting mobs normies would never go near so it doesn't get overrun by TP burns lol
Edited, Feb 19th 2010 10:15am by KisharBlack
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Especially at merit level, we're just too limited in the camps available to us. Now if they made another bomb camp (or three) which were at a perfect level for meriting, it might be different.
I'd also love to see a camp which is perfect for parties of BSTs at merit level too, something with non-aggro/non-linking kickass pets, targeting mobs normies would never go near so it doesn't get overrun by TP burns lol
oh yes!
i once set big hopes in xarcabard (s) and beaudecine (s) when they where announced just to find out after the update that SE designed the tigers there just a little too high to make exping any worthwhile...
i guess it will be bibiki, the good old tree and mount zhayolm's trolls for us forever... /sigh...
KisharBlack wrote:
I stand by my statement. There are things which RDM can solo that get exponentially harder if you don't have certain merits or gear sets. As a random example, I'm reasonably certain that Seiryu is effectively impossible to solo without AMAZING bind gear and the enfeebling and ice m.acc merits to back it up. And Bio III. And a really good haste set for Utsu. And auto-refresh gear.
Seiryu is actually surprisingly easy to bind. My gear was pretty good when i soloed it, but far from perfect (330 skill, ~100 int, and +3~8 macc maybe? not sure exactly what i had then), and i had something like 6 enfeeb merits, and 1 ice iirc. Bio 3 does little more than an extra 2/tic damage, which means nothing for surviving, and haste is rather unimpressive for kited fights. Still, you're point definitely stands, as you would be hard pressed to solo it without a duelist's chapeau, unless the rest of your gear was damn near perfect.
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