lvl 90 scythes and GSFollow

Heya everyone!

Thought we could post all magian lvl 90 upgrades and if they're good enough ;)

Smells like an /r/ thread in here.

Nothing really changed, Magian weapons are still on top, and the other few added are between passable and sh*t.

Grabbed a few Dire Scythes out of curiosity, since I'm gonna have a ton of DN from going after seals anyway. One 99DMG and one 105DMG, both Nightmare Scythe +25%, so lulzy as hell. I don't expect the WS damage+ to be any but the ones on the WS path magian anyway.

Yes, you can cancel your trials, but once you complete a trial, you can't go back.

The other Ultimatum path is good as it gives you the empyrian weaponskill eventually. You just have to participate in the hellhole called Walk of Echoes.

Ahh I see, now to see if anyone actually does WOE on my server.

Does anyone know how hard those new high kindred crests are to get yet?

They seem to occupy the same seal slot as Kindred Crests and possibly Geodes, the HCCs maybe even requiring mobs level 90+. While not hard to get, I wouldn't say they rain, either. I only wound up with 2 after taking 2 jobs to 90 over the past couple nights.

Just a note HQ Kindered Crest are easy to get. Xland S. Imps and demons drop them as well as NQ ones. And most are only EP-DC at 90.

Don't forget this level 90 scythe :)

Twilight Scythe (Rare Exclusive)
Scythe
DMG:128 Delay:513 STR+8
Additional effect: "Death"
Lv90 DRK

I have the gs with +10 ws damage and wondering what route would be better for it. The 100tp or the more base damage and 10 ws damage?

Soul Eater favors scythe because of guillotine, so it's only natural that your highest weaponskill damage will come from scythe.

Soul Eater is not always a viable option and guillotine is going to be a joke on stronger mobs.


The statistic of "my highest damage weaponskill" is one of the worst comparisons anyone can possibly make. Sounds like a bad case of BNS to me.

Actually his conclusion is only reinforced by the addition of Tocleaver and Quietus, despite his egregious errors in arriving at it, because Quietus gives Scythe the oomph Spinning Slash has on stronger mobs, while Tocleaver is about equal at best unless you wanna play it like Spiral Hell 2.0. Guillotine and Spinning Slash are way behind both anyway, and even Souleater barely brings Guillo up to par

Short version: Quietus is Spinning Slash 2.0 with SE's classic 'f*ck you DRK' of having a MND secondary, while Torcleaver is VIT modded. Take your pick, neither comes close to 4k+ Crit WS territory anyway.

Torcleaver is way better on lolPLD, but then Chant du Cygne says "Sup."

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 2:30pm by Raelix

easy 5 hit on scythe, why aren't you fulltiming souleater in abyssea, etc.

No need, pretty sure we already know the results: scythe will win by a clear margin. Even I know that great sword just can't compare with scythe in most situations.

Probably 300tp or something. Like I said: Spiral Hell 2.0; fancy e-peen numbers if you care to waste two more WS for it.

ITT: Feng shows how out-of-touch he is with the recent updates. Way to let personal bias get in the way of otherwise good information, douchenozzle.

Parsed against a drk with Quietus last weekend. I definitely was impressed by the damage "initially". I saw him popping 1500-2500 WS left and right while I was doing around 1k guillotine. Note that I use a lvl 85 OAT scythe so naturally my WS number would be lower, so it is expected. Not to mention, I was in a party of no buff, so my attack was definitely not capped, and I was using RR and DD atma to get that 75% critical hit rate, which suits better with OAT scythe anyway.

So after a while, it seems like he was bored with Quietus and popped guillotine a few times (few times is like 25 times) and surprisingly his guillotine was around 1500-2500 as well. So in the end, I checked the parse result, I was averaging exactly 1000 guillotine a pop, and he was average 1900 Quietus AND 1900 Guillotine. The overall parse result was irrelevant since I don't know what atma he was using, and it sure wasn't RR and DD cuz his critical hit rate was 15% only while mine was 75%, and he wasn't using VV atma either cuz I didn't see his tp ticking while idle. And we also were in different party so he was getting haste and I wasn't.

I outparsed him anyway but like I said it is irrelevant, what's interesting is his WS damage. It is very obvious that Quietus is a very very mediocre WS, which is probably good for higher end mobs where you can't cap attack. But in a high buff situation, guillotine will seemingly cap higher or do around the same damage. So, take it whichever way you like. Didn't feel like checking him, so I don't know if he has the lvl 90 scythe. I was lvl 86 to start the parse and he was lvl 90 I believe, I ended up being 89 (not a particularly good party as no buff for melee obviously), and a drk should not parse 25% overall damage in an abyssea party which I did...

I am definitely interested in seeing more Torcleaver numbers tho I have no doubt it destroys Spinning slash.

Saw a +17 DMG (116) Zanshin+2 Dire Scythe, and another with +14 DMG. Never seen anything but +%DMG to Nightmare Scythe on the WS side, but he did get a +40% NS damage one, which still sucks. He said those two were out of 34 scythes purchased. I've gotten three +11 DMG (110 total) out of maybe 18 bought.

Edited, Dec 13th 2010 10:13pm by Raelix

you check buffs usage? if he's SE with guillotine that's going to push its average significantly higher than it would with quietus being as its a 4 hit WS.

it honestly makes zero sense for both WS to do the same damage under the same conditions. something else has to be going on.

I've also got Ukko's Fury so I don't have a stake in "hyping up" Quietus. Once you do a few 6k WSs on WAR you kind of forget Quietus exists.

The only "math" I've seen on Quietus is from tests that I did. So you're disagreeing with me using info you got from me. The mods listed on wiki are from tests that I did. And even that info is inconclusive because I got Maschu +1 shortly after that. As far as I know nobody else has tested the WS, at all, so I dunno where you pulled your info from.

You have no idea what buffs he was using on either WS. You had to to re-check the parse to even see when he used Souleater. Did he use Stalwart's? You don't know do you? What about food? Did any of the mobs have Dia on them?

I use this WS pretty much everyday, on anything from EXP level mobs, to HNM level mobs. I've said numerous times it's a nice WS but really mediocre compared to damn near any other new WS obtained via WoE and Empyrean path.

However, it's not inferior to Guillotine. You're incorrect.



Edited, Dec 14th 2010 5:23pm by Hexagram

I think the big bloody issue with all Empyrean WS is people get so jacked up on Atma and the sudden extreme weapon damage increase around the same time they switch they don't realize their old WS is doing just as much crazy schizo damage too. This serves only to inflate the value of the new WS as compared to pre-Abyssea 'best' numbers for older WS. 2k Guillotines without Souleater are no stretch with just VV, I was doing them with a piddly 105 damage scythe, so another 20 damage or so should close it more.

Hex, swing a few Guillotines in your best gearing with the same buffs as Quietus, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised by its output.

Nobody should be comparing in-Abyssea 2.5k+ Quietus numbers with pre-abyssea 1.2-1.4k Guillotine numbers. It's just pants-on-head retarded to do so.

Quietus sucks not because it hardly beats Guillotine but because it doesn't crit and has the same sh*tty mod combination (gimped on the STR too) that SE can go eat a bag of dicks over. If Quietus was 75% STR modded we wouldn't be bitching because that would make it a clear winner, but 50% MND? Seriously SE WTF.

You can't compare my Quietus to his....it makes no sense. You said his was 1500-2500ish on EXP level mobs with Souleater. Mine was on HNM level mobs (Eccentric Eve) and various NMs around Abyssea for 1700-2.9k, without Souleater. Hell, for the sake of argument let's say I used Souleater on a few of those....Guillotine would still benefit more from it and he did less damage on weaker mobs.

1500-2500 on EXP level mobs isn't mindblowing damage, especially not with Souleater. It's borderline terrible damage actually. Hell, that's 2005 EXPing in Sky damage. You can't look at someone who is obviously performing well beneath the potential of the WS and make declarative statements like you are. And for the record I have no idea what a Studio Gobli is....the only reference to mods I've seen on the 'net is from tests that I've done.

Secondly I have no idea what buffs he had, or what gear he used. How do you know I have better gear than him, you said you didn't check him.

Lastly, nobody is averaging the same damage as my Quietus with Guillotine on the same mobs. Not even me. Trust me I've tried. For example, use Guillotine on Pascerpot. Can you do multiple 2.3k-2.7 Guillotines in a row, without BRD, COR, or Souleater? With just atmas and food? No.

If people could pull comparable damage Guillotines out their ass at will nobody would be saying DRK is currently the gimpest DD in the game.

If I get around to it I'll get a parse running and compare the two WS. But again, I finished Maschu+2 recently and use it and Ukko's Fury for pretty much everything now.

Edited, Dec 14th 2010 10:57pm by Hexagram

this.

Ok, first of all, he used souleater twice, so the chance it effecting the result is very minimal consider how many WS was performed, and without knowing if he used with guillotine or with quietus. Second, like I said, what does buff or no buff have anything to do with the comparison? if it was in a relatively no buff situation, let me ask you which WS would benefit the most from a no buff situation? a WS with ignore defense or a WS that is multihit? Third, it is not hard to know that his gears are worst than yours, not hard to do now a day with ffxiah (Ivaan is the name, you can check, and you can tell me if you think your gears are better than his). Fourth, studio gobli is a JP website that is usually first hand on every game related mechanic, they were the one that figured out mob stats and alot of WS property when this game was in its darkage. So the information from there is usually very very accurate if not conclusive. Just for information purpose, it is saying that the WS is 3.0 ftp 40% str and 40% mnd.

So you put up those numbers on HNM etc etc, why does Ground strike do better than Spiral Hell on HNM type of mob despite a lower ftp and low weapon base damage? Duh... the ratio bonus, and why does your number look so good on HNM? Duh... ignore defense. You seem to think fighting HNM and fighting EXP mob should make a huge difference on this WS, which is exactly what it isn't about. It is a spinning slash +1 that is very consistent and does well on harder mobs. Ask yourself do you do that much more with this WS on EXP mob than on HNM like you seem to describe? You ask a question, can you do multiple 2.3-2.7k guillotine in a row without BRD, COR? (took out SE cuz it is not needed) I will say no, and I have been saying no. But my point is with the proper buff not including souleater, guillotine can do just that.

I am comparing the cap of the two WSs, Quietus is easier to cap while guillotine is alot harder to cap, that doesn't mean Quietus caps higher. I am merely saying the type of damage Quietus is putting up is achievable by guillotine giving enough buff excluding SE not under the same buff, which IMO makes it a mediocre WS, but is it useful on HNM? sure it is, no one is denying its usefulness.

I was shocked that his guillotine was so close to his quietus, that's something I would never have expected. So I don't think you need to be so defensive, I was once in the school of thought that Quietus is by far the better WS until he started spamming guillotine. Maybe you just haven't spammed guillotine enough lately?

But anyway, take it as what it is worth. You can say the player is gimp, wrongfully geared etc etc, but in the end, which kind of player is going to benefit more from a WS that ignores defense? you should know the answer. There is a reason any gimp sam who uses gekko can put up decent WS number while a gimp drk will have a hard time putting up decent guillotine number.

Finally we are on the same page. Totally agree with your post, and I have been saying the same thing. It just happen that our definitely of mediocre is a little different.

In the old days, not getting any buff was consider normal, and thus Spinning slash was consider a good WS.

More recently, not getting any buff was consider abnormal (actually, I have heard alot of ppl who were saying, if you don't play melee in a party of Cor, Brd, and Dnc, you are doing it wrong), and thus Guillotine was consider a good WS due to its high ftp cap and high end damage with full buff, and on the other hand, SS was consider a mediocre WS.

Now a day, with abyssea, everything and everyone lowman things with atma, which includes my LS that usually don't have more than 8 ppl on, and I haven't used DRK in a LS event since RR atma, so Guillotine is now consider a bad WS, tho primarily because it can't critical and partly because it requires high buff to even be comparable to some of the bad WSs.

I guess I am trying to say that I am still more in the "more recently" mode. Quietus is obviously a better WS than Guillotine, I have not denied that since the beginning. What I was trying to say is that when situation allows, both cap at around the same damage mathematically and perhaps practically for some. So for those who don't have Quietus and somehow is able to go to LS event as DRK, you can do the amount of damage that is seemingly impossible to do with Guillotine by having a good amount of buffs etc. It doesn't mean it is easy to do, but it is doable. As I have said it before, my post was an impression of how shocked I was to see the similarity in damage, and as I dig deeper I realized why that's the case. It wasn't like I had an agenda to try to say that Quietus is nothing more than a 1 hit Guillotine in your normal exp party.

But anyway, good luck to us drks and hopefully we can get a critical hit WS at 400 skills, then we will be back on the market. It is quite possible that we will get a fastcast trait similar to blm's at higher level, and I wonder an Impact build with Twilight cloak while waiting for mob to get to melee range would be a good idea in the future. All that is obviously assuming we get a critical hit WS, otherwise nothing will be worth it.


Edited, Dec 15th 2010 4:36pm by pochenlai

Recently got espafut+2, but haven't gotten a chance to play with it. I did however lvl my pld from 85 to 90 using the +1 (got my last bunch of hkc in that alli).

Coming from an nq player perspective (using full perle, swapping a whole two pieces of gear for ws (belt and helm to warwolf/varangian) because I forgot other stuff) it was pretty underwhelming at the start. Lvled on cockatrice in chasm, using RR/VV atmas, cruor buffs amounting to ~+40, /nin, mithkabobs, and having underleveled greatsword skill left torcleaver being like spinning slash. Stalwarts pushed it a bit higher, but I saw bigger gains by just lvling. By 90pld I finally saw 2k dmg spikes and fairer averages (still +1 version), but it still didn't compare much to just using vorpal blade.

I'd imagine getting skill capped, better food/gear/buffs/etc, will push this ws a good bit, but I'm not as sure about what I can get for some spots. Obviously getting zone boss and caturae clears will open up nice gears and 3rd atma, I'm a few bosses/cat away for that. Never did get ares body, though it is a lot easier and much much cheaper to get one now (I need some chariot kills for dark depths as well, imp wootz ingots are at ~90k on ramuh atm lol).

I think I can get a 6hit with espafut's 466 delay: askar body, rose grip, brutal earring, rajas ring, hoard ring, goading belt, /sam for 5+4+1+5+4+5+15 = 39store tp (using sam's 464 6hit needs) but would need to ws with hoard ring and goading belt on I think, missing out on warwolf belt and spiral ring (+10str/vit combined). In abyssea I could get away with the swaps due to VV's 2tp/tick...


Least the ws is cool looking... I still love you greatsword! :(

I'm not a DRK, i'm just posting. Take the debate away from Emp ws's becasue the majority of DRK's will still be using Guil (or SS) or both.


A ls member has the +2 100TP GS, and is putting out 1.1-1.5K SS's using just (RR)/VV. Wouldn't the potential of this WS rise beyond Guilotine if once she got her 3d lunar she was using VV/SB/AO?


I personally think the gap between scythe and GS has closed some - and this is from a completely non-biased opinion in the current abys enviroment.