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Trial of the Magians

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Trial of the MagiansFollow

#1 Mar 23 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Oathkeeper: DMG+12
Bradamante: DMG+32 Delay+21 Occ. atk. twice
Bradamante: Delay:+21 Occ. atk. twice

Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 STR+4 Attack+15
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 STR+4 Pet: Attack+15 Rng.Atk.+15
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Weakens atk.+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 AGI+4 Evasion+15
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 AGI+4 Pet: Evasion+15
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Impairs evasion+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 DEX+4 Accuracy+12
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 DEX+4 Pet: Accuracy+12 Rng.Acc.+12
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Lowers acc+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 CHR+4 Mag. Evasion+12
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 CHR+4 Pet: Mag. Evasion+12
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.eff:Lowers mag.eva.+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 INT+4 "Mag.Atk.Bns."+7
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 INT+4 Pet: "Mag.Atk.Bns."+7
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Lowers mag.atk.+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 VIT+4 Phys. dmg. taken -7%
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 VIT+4 Pet: Phys. dmg. taken -7%
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Weakens def.+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 MND+4 "Mag.Def.Bns."+7
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 MND+4 Pet: "Mag.Def.Bns."+7
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Lowers mag.def.+10
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 MP+50 Mag.Acc.+12
Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 MP+50 Pet: Mag.Acc.+12
Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Lowers mag.acc.+10

Gungnir: DMG+7

Ryunohige: DMG+7

courtesy Xanthe on BG

Looks like all sidegrades to me. More damage on relic/mythic, Bradamante depends on the occ. attack twice proc. I think I'd rather have a Grauberg [S] perfect lance (dmg95, attributes, +stun/flash), but noone will do that quest anymore probably.

Currently upgrading Stribog: DMG+24 Add.Eff.:Impairs evasion+10 just to participate and then will start the Bradamante when bored.

#2 Mar 23 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent

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how does this compare, when finished, to valk fork? trying to decide if i need to do this or not ...

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#3 Mar 23 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent

HalEmmerich

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Not sitting and doing the math myself I'd say as a guess that both the oathkeeper and the high damage Bradamante might outdo V. Fork. Someone who knows better should probably actually do the math though. IT all ends up depending on what further expansion can be done with the next magian update, and whether or not V. Fork or something else becomes upgradeable.

Edited for math fail on the final Oathkeeper augment...

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 8:26pm by HalEmmerich

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#4 Mar 23 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent

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Currently in a 11 drg alliance waiting for stupid goblin NM to pop. Good times. :D

Make that 12, and 1/3 kills!

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 11:50pm by Byxfluzba

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#5 Mar 24 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent

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Well so far:

3/3 Slendlix
3/3 Herbage Hunter
1/3 Kirata, hopefully finish that thursday or friday.

After Kirata, luckily no more NM farming on the Bradamante branch. I can do the soloing easily enough, though it will take a while. Should be easier with one or two others along the same path though.

Its the HNM drops I'm worried about. :( I'm not in an HNM LS, and don't think I ever will be. So I'm afraid that in the next week or two I'll finish up to that point, then be stuck.

However, 76 dmg, 509 delay and occ. attacks twice sounds ridiculously nice to me.

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#6 Mar 24 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent

HalEmmerich

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Since I haven't found anyone sitting and doing the math yet I took a stab at doing some work on it myself. But seeing as I don't know all the formulas myself I made use of this.

Maybe because I use Open Office and not Excel, not everything works exactly right, it won't let me choose a WS to test for the full comparison, and I can't figure out how to get it to factor in Jump/High Jump damage, and I'm only assuming that my editting of Zaide to match DMG99 Oathkeeper stat wise worked as intended. But, using my gear for TP, the only change being Oathkeeper+Rose STrap(in order to keep the partial 6 hit I currently have) vs. V Fork+Pole strap(what I currently use), V fork is in the lead by .6% total damage. Which leads me to believe that the Oathkeeper would come out on top, if only just barely, due to the higher Jump, High Jump and WS damage. That ends up depending on exactly how much the lack of 5% DA impacts the WS rate though. The Jump damage contribution obviously isn't going to change.

People who actually know what they're doing, chime in please?

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#7 Mar 24 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent

hellbringerx

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I love that program. It's not perfect on its calculations (though no program I'm aware of is), but it has always given me a good estimate. I'm not sure how to help you on your problems using it as I would need to pretty much be standing over your shoulder and pointing at locations on the spreadsheet.

I can say though, that using my gear I get about a 1.3% difference in DOT favoring V.Fork.

The 76DMG - Occ. Attacks Twice Bradamante, however, showed about a 9.6% increase in DOT over the V.Fork. This was assuming a proc rate similar to Joy-Toy which may or may not be accurate of course.

Anyone who enjoys doing math by hand care to verify this?

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 4:10pm by hellbringerx

#8 Mar 24 2010 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Stribog: DMG+21 Delay:-12 DEX+4 Accuracy+12: kill 200 Qutrub in lightning weather/day

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 5:21pm by moffatt

#9 Mar 24 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent

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Oathkeeper has a base of 87 with DMG +12 wouldn't that already make it better?

#10 Mar 24 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Default

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7 base dmg vs 15 acc and 12 delay. i think the acc would be better since it opens up other slots, tp in str rings etc. 7 dmg is about 7% increase and 15 acc is also about 7% increase, or more with lower base acc. if you're already capped acc, you'd have to make up for the 7 base damage in the acc slots you drop. so yeah oathkeeper is probably better, except possibly when not superbuffed fighting gods/etc, or if you can swap out an acc body for ares/nocturnous body. guess i got excited over a mini-relic for nothing. still think it certainly beats a thalassocrat tho.

#11 Mar 25 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent

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moffatt wrote:

tp in str rings

No.

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#12 Mar 25 2010 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good

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Noodles wrote:

moffatt wrote:

tp in str rings

No.

Clarifier: If one of your rings is a Rajas, you'll be using it anyway. The other, in a capped-Acc situation, should be a Blitz Ring if it doesn't un-cap you.

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#13 Mar 25 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent

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Kinoki wrote:

Oathkeeper has a base of 87 with DMG +12 wouldn't that already make it better?

Oathkeeper (DMG:87 Delay:492 DMG:+12)

vs

Stribog (DMG:71 Delay:492 DMG+21 Delay:-12 DEX+4 Accuracy+12)

I can see why Oath would win but when it comes to evasive mobs, I dunno... I started the Stribog path myself but getting second thoughts already lol.

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#14 Mar 25 2010 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good

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Hmmm, I'd assumed the new doble attack lances were just Love Halberd+1s but they're definitely not. Assuming 8hit Halberd and 6hit magians, magian hits 100%TP about 100 delay faster if they had no DA. Obviously magian's delay favours jumps too and it's DMG is like 16 DMG higher. Wows indeed.

The higher DMG Occ Att twice lance is esilly now our best non-relic/mythic lance.

Goddamnit, I was hoping they wern't that wow-worthy and that I could ignore them.
Then again I still think I'm gong to hold off untill the cap is raised to 80. I don't want to spend years doing the gay trials for them to release a Lv80 lance that maks them all mediocre.

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#15 Mar 25 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good

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Noodles wrote:

Then again I still think I'm gong to hold off until the cap is raised to 80. I don't want to spend years doing the gay trials for them to release a Lv80 lance that makes them all mediocre.

That's probably not a bad idea, unless they're planning on updating this system later on with more augments that can be added onto them.

I wouldn't mind the new Occ. Atk. Twice one though, though it'll still be for more of a toy/town thing unless I'm missing the point on that.

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#16 Mar 26 2010 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good

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Quote:

I wouldn't mind the new Occ. Atk. Twice one though, though it'll still be for more of a toy/town thing unless I'm missing the point on that.

Assuming it has a ~50% DA rate its FAR more than a toy. Its the best non-relic lance in the game. Its a love halberd that has much more favorable delay so greatly increased TP gain, and its damage doesnt suck so your jumps/WS will actually be pretty scary still. Basically everyone got the equivalent of Joyeuse for their respective weapon classes. Im really suprised there isnt more hype about these in general over the boards. These are INCREDIBLE weapons. (compared to current standards).

What happens at 80/99? who knows. They may add additional upgrades to these weapons, or not touch them at all. New weapons may stomp them into the ground, or these become the new "standard" for DDs. I dunno. But right now they kick serious ass. (so long as it has the same DA rate as EVERY other DA weapon in the GAME which is a safe assumption for that very reason.) And people will start finishing these done in a day or 2 anyway for hard #s on the DA rate. Hell Im already to the ZNM stage on polarm and 1 trial from ZNM stage on dagger. I know there are people doing 1 weapon with mroe time than i have. Im sure its only a matter of hours before the 1st ones get done at this point if it hasnt happened already.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 3:57am by Banalaty

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#17 Mar 26 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good

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Banalaty wrote:

Quote:

I wouldn't mind the new Occ. Atk. Twice one though, though it'll still be for more of a toy/town thing unless I'm missing the point on that.

Assuming it has a ~50% DA rate its FAR more than a toy. Its the best non-relic lance in the game.

Yeah, if that's the case then I would be incredibly stoked about getting one. A quick bit of (probably inaccurate) napkin math, however, tells me that if the DA rate is lower than about 30%, I'm going for an Oathkeeper instead. It doesn't take TP/WS splits into account though.

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#18 Mar 26 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent

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Banalaty wrote:

its FAR more than a toy.

+1

This thing will be insane. I'm not into endgame anything, so all I've ever had are AH weapons. For me, this will be a HUGE upgrade.

I'm in the middle of the PUK trial 439. Once that is done I'm on to the VNM's for the very last upgrade. I can't tell you how excited I am about the thought of having this fully upgraded weapon. Spamming WS's will be so much fun.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 11:45am by jschaub

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#19 Mar 26 2010 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent

hellbringerx

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It's about time people clued into this fact. I was really starting to doubt my original assessment of this lance since no one else seemed interested at all. In the first alliance of like 12 drgs I was in for the NM camp, I asked if everyone was going for the Occ. Atks. Twice lance and everyone replied "no..." like I was out of my mind.

#20 Mar 26 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent

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Maybe everyone is doing the high damage polearm first just to get some high numbers. Then do Occ. Atks. Twice lance for skill up when the lvl cap gets raised. For me, I haven't started one yet. Thining of doing DMG99 or the oee with dex/acc since I'm elvan.

#21 Mar 26 2010 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent

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Love halbered will be a better piece to skillup with. Lower damage = mobs ast longer = more skillups per mob. Lower dlay = more hits over time.

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#22 Mar 26 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent

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True, But I don't have it or a sea shell.

#23 Mar 27 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent

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This one not worth a mention?

Reward item: a Stribog (DMG:71 Delay:492 DMG:+21 Delay:-12 STR+4 Attack+15)

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#24 Mar 27 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent

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I think whether the stribog beats oathkeeper depends on your setup. If you need to switch another slot for STP to maintain a 6 hit, oath probably pulls ahead.

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#25 Mar 27 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good

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92 dmg isn't doing itself any favours, and the dex/acc option is going to be more useful if you're sacraficing raw damage. I'm no math guy, but I don't think 4 str 15 atk is even going to beat a half decent 95fay lance... Correct me if I'm wrong anyone?

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#26 Mar 28 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent

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i think even the dex/acc one isn't particularly good, mostly because we don't really need all that acc, and can't make up for the gains of a high dmg lance like the oathkeeper by dropping acc in other slots. kinda the same business as why we don't want the 25 wsacc MKE helm.

#27 Mar 28 2010 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good

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For what it's worth, I'm gonna work on the D:95 Defense Down lance as all the NMs for Oath/Bradamante are gonna chew a massive hole in what little time I have for playing FFXI.

The D:92 STR+4 Att+15 lance looks to be very close to a Thal, if you ask me, or maybe just a little bit ahead; I don't think it's worth worrying about.

Should we get definitive numbers on Bradamante's DA rate, though, I may reconsider my stance.

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#28 Mar 28 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good

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Lucinus wrote:

For what it's worth, I'm gonna work on the D:95 Defense Down lance as all the NMs for Oath/Bradamante are gonna chew a massive hole in what little time I have for playing FFXI.

The NM parts do suck, maybe if you're fortunate to have a party that'll let you sit there or let them bring it to you (We did it for earlier trials for the afk/work/sleep DRGs) it may work out, if not just camp once a day because eventually if you keep at it you'll get it done.

Just thank your lucky stars its not like a 12-24 hour spawn.

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#29 Mar 29 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent

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I recently hit 75 DRG. I was going to get a Mezraq or a Thalassocrat. Is it better to save the money and get one of these then?

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#30 Mar 29 2010 at 4:36 AM Rating: Excellent

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jtftaru wrote:

I recently hit 75 DRG. I was going to get a Mezraq or a Thalassocrat. Is it better to save the money and get one of these then?

If you have the capability of getting either the DMG99 Oathkeeper or the DMG76 occ. att. twice Bradamante, you will have a better lance for much less gil.

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#31 Mar 29 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent

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Pretty much anyone could farm the 300-400k it costs for thal in half the time it takes to get one of these fkin weapons. If you really want to save money, I'd suggest attempting to augment a fay lance. Takes a bit of luck, but only costs 20-40k and can produce a superior weapon to thal or mez. IMO, these things are far too big a pain in the ass for me to suggest new drgs try for these. They should be focusing on merits, and sucking less than spending 2 weeks camping useless nms or soloing countless crap mobs.

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#32 Mar 29 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good

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Honestly, while fay "can" be better than thal, by D1 and a hair of str, it lacks eva down. I wouldnt call a good fay anything but a sidegrade. Minor nitpick.

Go buy whatever is cheaper/you can do fastest now between thal and fay (i reccomend thal for this actually). Work on magian weapon. Sell your old weapon (why i reccomend thal. Fay has no resale value).

I am currently doing both dagger and lance right now. Stuck on VNM drops for lance and killing 300 hippogryphs on thf -_-. Its "easy" (yet monstrously time consuming) to get the 1st few trials until you get to the T3 VNMs for the DA weapon. Those things are nothing to play with. It will take you a LONG time to complete a weapon. Dont be gimp until then.

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 12:24pm by Banalaty

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#33 Mar 29 2010 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good

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Banalaty wrote:

Honestly, while fay "can" be better than thal, by D1 and a hair of str, it lacks eva down. I wouldnt call a good fay anything but a sidegrade. Minor nitpick.

Depending on the process rate and the potency of the effect, I might be inclined to agree or might be inclined to disagree. Not sure.

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#34 Mar 29 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good

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i agree with you. One is better than the other (by a SLIM margin) depending on mob/gear/buffs/blah blah situational junk. Either can beat the other in favorable situations, but even when they do, its by a VERY small margin. I just call it a sidegrade and be done with it. They are still stepping stones to Vfork/Magian weapons anyway. But one you can sell back once your past that stage. The other you can NPC. Ill go with something with resale value in a case this close. (and not having to fight a stupid turtle OVER and OVER is a bonus)

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#35 Mar 29 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good

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so i'm up to the T2 VNMs for my oathkeeper. Anyone know if any of the T1s are soloable by drg or mnk? seems like the few that would be have TP attacks that would 1 shot you between HBs. And i assume neither of the T2s we need are soloable, atleast by drg.

#36 Mar 29 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent

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Lucinus wrote:

Banalaty wrote:

Honestly, while fay "can" be better than thal, by D1 and a hair of str, it lacks eva down. I wouldnt call a good fay anything but a sidegrade. Minor nitpick.

Depending on the process rate and the potency of the effect, I might be inclined to agree or might be inclined to disagree. Not sure.

I'm pretty sure it is -10 eva 5-10% of the time.

so... converting the -eva to +acc you get

10*.1= 1ACC over time
or
10*.05=.05ACC over time.

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#37 Mar 29 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

I recently hit 75 DRG. I was going to get a Mezraq or a Thalassocrat. Is it better to save the money and get one of these then?

You're gonna have to get one unless you plan on not playing DRG until you actually finish one of these weapons.

#38 Mar 29 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent

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I soloed the pugil and crab in east ronfaure. They were both pretty easy targets for drg/blu. However, the pugil never used screwdriver on me in the 4 times i fought it, which is supposedly their move that can one shot you. For the crab, just WS around their scissor guard.

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#39 Mar 29 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good

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Quote:

I'm pretty sure it is -10 eva 5-10% of the time.

so... converting the -eva to +acc you get

10*.1= 1ACC over time
or
10*.05=.05ACC over time.

Not quite. Its -20, and the way your calculating it is if it were only active on the ONE hit that procs it. If it procs, it will stay on for a while and you will get additional swings with the -20 eva. Its harder to measure, since it could proc at the start of a fight, or on the killing blow, mobs have different resist rates, etc etc, but its far more effective than 1 or .5 acc over time. Not to mention it functionally gives everyone hitting the mob +20 acc when it procs as well.

Edited, Mar 29th 2010 6:14pm by Banalaty

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#40 Mar 30 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent

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good lord, T1 VNMs are incredibly weak, T2s and T3s are rediculously OPed. they just dish out so much damage. We almost killed a T2 (the pugil, while trying to pop yacumama) w/ 2 plds, like 3 SMN, 2 WHM, 2 blm, a drg, and a drk, with everyone but 3 or 4 dieing at least 2x. T3 went even worse, the antlion just attacks so freaking fast and resets hate, and does ridiculous damage. we had another smn and brd and the drk was SAM for that one. I don't see how any normal group of people would be able to beat these. They are truely overwhelming, besides the fact that you can't choose which T2 you fight, and pretty much all the zones require different setups for each of their T2s.

#41 Mar 30 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent

Deadonarrival

Scholar

4,126 posts

350 liz/300 puk/10 slime

Missed out on VNM's with my ls last night because of school. =(

O well not gonna be the first in my LS but hopefully will be relatively soon.

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