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If killing XI was meant to push players to XIV....Follow

#1 Apr 27 2015 at 4:01 AM Rating: Default
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Do you think it will work as intended? To me I see the ending of XI as a gamble to make players move to XIV. there is simply no logical reason they would do what they are doing unless there is an ulterior motive behind it.

Obviously I'm assuming the reason they are really killing this game off and completely disregarding the "PS2 limitations" excuse.

As a XI player I simply cannot get into XIV at all so I'm curious what others think, I would say this is probably because unlike some I actually did play WoW and didn't like it so this isn't a case of I liked the wow type experience but never actually tried it. As such I don't like XIV either.

Do you think many XI vets will actually swap over and their plan will see fruition or will they simply have less players total than they did before?
#2 Apr 27 2015 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
I actually like WoW, but don t like XIV at all. I personally know more people who played XI and went to XIV thinking they would like it and came back to XI. I personally don t get much of a FF feel from XIV outside a choc.
#3 Apr 27 2015 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Might someone at SE hope for that? Sure, I wouldn't doubt it. Will it convince the XI loyalists? Nope. This is usually the point where someone might try to rationalize they're two different games, but I think it's more apt to recognize them as two different eras of MMOs. XI simply isn't capable of some of the more modern things under its engine, try as SE might to work around PS2 limitations--legit excuse or not.

Personally, I am not playing any MMO at the moment and have no immediate plans to. For what differences people might try to pick out between whatever set of games, I'm more inclined to call them all closer to being the same than different. Raiding is pretty much king everywhere, instanced or not, and no dev team on my radar really seems interested in changing that. Devs are so paralyzed by RMT that economies are not built to compete with the raid game, instead at best serving as a stepping stone for the short leveling process and otherwise falling to fluff status like making furnishings for houses or what not.

With PvP not being for everyone, many MMOs that do have it try to, in some fashion, make it mandatory. If it's not, the PvP fanatics will still often complain. Balance here is too often an afterthought, especially when it comes to pre-mades vs. PUGs.

Lastly, you've still got the whole P2P vs. F2P war going on. Some will immediately confuse the latter for P2W and no amount of trying to explain over time expenses or pointing out properly done systems will really change that. Given my ennui with the current state of MMOs, it probably shouldn't be all that surprising to hear that I favor things trending toward F2P. Not because I want to see lesser quality, as some assert runs hand-in-hand with the model, but it's really better to help someone find that fit for them with a dash of "hungry" devs ideally striving to be more ambitious with their content development with people rewarding them with cash after the fact instead of upfront and hoping for the best. P2P models just feel like they breed dev complacency, a seed planted for me in XI not long after ToAU's launch and worsened considerably with WotG's pacing. I'd tried other sub games, sure, but the tug of the proverbial hook just wasn't there. I should perhaps note Abyssea was an exception for me in this decline. Not 100% of it, but the more objective-oriented approach the game had at the time while being more pick-up-and-play friendly.

I still recall an AIM conversation I had with Rykoshet at one point during ToAU's cycle where I said that once I'm done with XI, I'm done with MMOs. Maybe I didn't have my mind on the entirety of what was eating me back then, all I knew was I was frustrated. Player politics were a part of it. MMO mechanics were another. The last paragraph makes me out a liar, for sure, but I suppose I was hoping things would get better. Has MMO storytelling, both quality and presentation, improved? Hard to say. The cynic in me says not really. Have graphics? Most definitely, but that's not enough to hold me. Are we playing our games differently, both socially and mechanically? Nope. For the uninitiated, my own stance may seem confusing, but there's really only something experience in a game can bring. I let XI take my MMO virginity. And I can't decide if I regret that. For other vets, this may lead to nostalgia and yearning. Others may see it as a road map of what not to do or tolerate in future endeavors.

In time, I think the "hatred" for what XIV has done to XI, real or imagined, will wane. Some will try XIV because, hey, it is a Final Fantasy. That excuse likely brought some to XI. Some won't care what it's called or who made it, just that it's fun. Others will just kinda follow their friends, holding no strong opinion either way. Word of mouth will do its things on both sides of the scale. I understand why SE is "giving up" on XI just as I would expect them to one day give up on XIV or their DQ game. Times change, and while I'm someone who believes the biggest strength of the MMO is their ability to change, sometimes the best thing an artist can do for their work is put the brush down, step away, and begin the next project. Don't hate on devs for that, people.
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#4 Apr 27 2015 at 8:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Runespider wrote:
Do you think it will work as intended?

I see no reason to don a tin-foil hat here, I see no evidence your theory has any basis.

FFXIV 2.0 is a huge success and player numbers dwarf those of FFXI .. a statement of fact .. so any numbers of players taking up XIV due to XI's closure would be insignificant: because it's unlikely IMO a large number of XI players who don't already play XIV would do so if/when XI closes.

Maybe I'm naive, but I see no reason at present to think this is anything other than a technological problem caused by the demise of the PS2 which seems to be behind this. IMO SE are being very open, the game's future beyond next March is in doubt and SE should be commended IMO for doing what they're doing with respect to giving XI a 'send off' worthy of it, and if it stays around past March next year then great, I'll still be here with them.
#5Runespider, Posted: Apr 27 2015 at 10:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Only to the untrained eye. The peak subscriber numbers of both games are actually very similar. However let's not derail into a peepee contest.
#6 Apr 27 2015 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Persistently hand-waving the PS2 issue isn't going to make it disappear. It's an antiquated system where dev kits are no longer in production and the ones they've managed to acquire are going to eventually go boom. Could they rework the dev process starting from the PC base, instead? Sure, I'd say it's possible if they're willing to invest the time and money into such software. Yet, XI's peak has nothing to do with the present. They've admitted populations have dwindled. Profits may indeed still be present, but if they're only seeing x% return when reshuffling those people could get them x+y%, they'd be silly not to. They're still a business. They're giving more than a sufficient heads up. If people don't think the game is worth subbing for once they finish up the last content, that's okay. Don't feel obligated to jump to XIV.

If I didn't imply it strongly enough in my last post, the things XI needs to stay modern simply aren't possible under its engine. Renovating such is tantamount to SE making a new game. What they've managed to eke out in these last few years is commendable. So, while some might look to the mobile version and think, "But they are making a new version of the game, why couldn't it be on PC?" I'd simply be apt to say those who think the mobile version is a straight port are going to be disappointed. Phones don't have the 11gb+ space XI needs in assets, so this is going to result in a small program with some key assets with the rest relying on streaming. Mobile phones aren't wired, so connections can't be as reliable as we'd expect. This puts a huge hamper on the efficacy of the combat system we presently know, which I suspect is where we'll see some of the most jarring changes. Going turn-based playing more like an older FF will probably be the order. This'll change up how some fights pan out. Certain abilities simply couldn't work or make sense like this. It can work. XI's story-telling style can translate over, but I don't think cut-scenes will be 1:1. On the other hand, the more mundane quests might actually see improvement, including simply recognizing a quest IS available from an NPC. I know, I know, keep those pesky QoL features out of XI. :P
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#7 Apr 27 2015 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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It was XIV that got me back to XI. After quiting XI years ago, I played several other MMO's since then. When playing XIV, I more and more wanted to go back to XI untill I finaly switched back about 2 months ago. I do not think that I will go back to XIV any time soon, or maybe not at all. Besides the grapics and some UI elements, XI is much better than XIV. Because I had quit yesrs ago there is still a lot to do for me in XI, even without updates.
#8 Apr 28 2015 at 7:03 AM Rating: Default
Runespider wrote:
Do you think it will work as intended? To me I see the ending of XI as a gamble to make players move to XIV. there is simply no logical reason they would do what they are doing unless there is an ulterior motive behind it.

Obviously I'm assuming the reason they are really killing this game off and completely disregarding the "PS2 limitations" excuse.

As a XI player I simply cannot get into XIV at all so I'm curious what others think, I would say this is probably because unlike some I actually did play WoW and didn't like it so this isn't a case of I liked the wow type experience but never actually tried it. As such I don't like XIV either.

Do you think many XI vets will actually swap over and their plan will see fruition or will they simply have less players total than they did before?


I am one of those people.

When XIV was first announced, it was one of the many calls of XI being killed off. Where some quit there and then, others quit when XIV was released. I didn't quit XI but I did join in XIV 1.0, I spent some time on it but never cancelled my XI. Time went by and my frustrations grew with XIV I returned to XI.

On release of 2.0 I went back to see XIV, fell in love with it similar to how I did when I played XI. It was that moment I quit XI, I pop over to these forums in the hope of seeing F2P XI or even SE releasing the software so people can.. legally have their own servers.

As for WoW, I too played that for a Year, I could understand the love for it but it didn't feel the same to XI. XIV is certainly not a WoW clone but it offers a lot of XI/WoW ideas and fun/entertainment. I could list all the MMOs I have played and XIV has kept me on - to my surprise.

If you think XIV is the WoW you really should play it for some time before you criticise it. You will be surprised how it doesn't feel like WoW.

Good thing about XIV is I don't feel I have to stick around because of all the Years I have put in it or even the fact it has Final Fantasy in the title. I can list a lot of things I love about XIV, course I miss a few things on XI but trying to compare effectively a 1 Year old game to something I lived on almost a decade with multi updates/expansions... in a few years will be a relevant time to really compare XI vs XIV. BUT considering what we have so far? XIV is a much better game and I don't DONT miss seeking as a THF or DRG for 6 hours on XI. I know that's no where near as bad these days but I look back and I see a lot of pain and things I shouldn't of put up with. Playing a game is not seeking or camping for hours...

As for XI, your right the PS2 is an excuse, it costs a fortune to maintain a game on multiple platforms. And at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much money XI has raked in, what matters is how much money it does rake in compared to the expenditure - remember each Dev/Support/Reps/Directors/Artists or even Server/IT man who maintains XI is a full time salary. If the income is 1.2million a Year, that money fasts disappears after the staff salary, equipment costs and even the electric bill for lights in the offices could be included... having been apart of budget planning it certainly adds up.

Edited, Apr 28th 2015 9:06am by Lonix

Edited, Apr 28th 2015 9:09am by Lonix
#9 Apr 28 2015 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Good thing about XIV is I don't feel I have to stick around because of all the Years I have put in it or even the fact it has Final Fantasy in the title. I can list a lot of things I love about XIV, course I miss a few things on XI but trying to compare effectively a 1 Year old game to something I lived on almost a decade with multi updates/expansions... in a few years will be a relevant time to really compare XI vs XIV. BUT considering what we have so far? XIV is a much better game and I don't DONT miss seeking as a THF or DRG for 6 hours on XI. I know that's no where near as bad these days but I look back and I see a lot of pain and things I shouldn't of put up with. Playing a game is not seeking or camping for hours...



I think the biggest difference between XI and XIV is the amount of investment needed to play the game.

With FFXIV, you could start playing the game today and be totally "caught up" to the endgame crowd within a month of dinging level 50... and in even less time, you can have gear with a high enough iLevel to do most of the content in the game. And running dungeons/ doing raids/ etc. doesn't require any pre-planning, trying to build groups, etc... just queue up in the duty finder and wait for your party to start. It's a game that allows you to make bigger strides with much less of a time investment.

With FFXI, you need to be able to invest more time into grinding, and you often need groups to get things done. There's more time in the game spent on logistics, looking for groups, etc. The best gear is much harder to get. Everything just takes longer.

While that sounds like a slam-dunk win for FFXIV, the other side of the coin is that it's also easier to walk away from FFXIV. There's less of an emotional investment into the game, whereas with FFXI, you've got to really love it in order to endure all the grinding. Over the years, FFXI definitely made people work a lot harder, which made quitting Vana'diel much more difficult. I could take a six-month break from FFXIV and not even worry about really "missing" anything. With FFXI, I'd be terrified of being left in the dust.

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#10 Apr 29 2015 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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double

Edited, Apr 29th 2015 8:38am by Runespider
#11 Apr 29 2015 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Good thing about XIV is I don't feel I have to stick around because of all the Years I have put in it or even the fact it has Final Fantasy in the title. I can list a lot of things I love about XIV, course I miss a few things on XI but trying to compare effectively a 1 Year old game to something I lived on almost a decade with multi updates/expansions... in a few years will be a relevant time to really compare XI vs XIV. BUT considering what we have so far? XIV is a much better game and I don't DONT miss seeking as a THF or DRG for 6 hours on XI. I know that's no where near as bad these days but I look back and I see a lot of pain and things I shouldn't of put up with. Playing a game is not seeking or camping for hours...



I think the biggest difference between XI and XIV is the amount of investment needed to play the game.

With FFXIV, you could start playing the game today and be totally "caught up" to the endgame crowd within a month of dinging level 50... and in even less time, you can have gear with a high enough iLevel to do most of the content in the game. And running dungeons/ doing raids/ etc. doesn't require any pre-planning, trying to build groups, etc... just queue up in the duty finder and wait for your party to start. It's a game that allows you to make bigger strides with much less of a time investment.

With FFXI, you need to be able to invest more time into grinding, and you often need groups to get things done. There's more time in the game spent on logistics, looking for groups, etc. The best gear is much harder to get. Everything just takes longer.

While that sounds like a slam-dunk win for FFXIV, the other side of the coin is that it's also easier to walk away from FFXIV. There's less of an emotional investment into the game, whereas with FFXI, you've got to really love it in order to endure all the grinding. Over the years, FFXI definitely made people work a lot harder, which made quitting Vana'diel much more difficult. I could take a six-month break from FFXIV and not even worry about really "missing" anything. With FFXI, I'd be terrified of being left in the dust.



This is how I felt about XIV too, I hate how easy it is to be at the top and how none of your accomplishments really matter due to constant gear replacement and easy goal accomplishment. This is the exact opposite of what FF11 was and why it was so beloved and long lasting. The feeling of "being left in the dust" was why nobody really took breaks from the game and stuck with it for so very long.

They are just wildly different games in my eyes, although modern ff11 became more similar to it near the end.

I guess the positive for Square in this is simply that there is no other game like FF11, so players really have little choice here. They either stick with FF11 and get no updates which is a massive saving for Square or they move to their other FF title which is an incredibly wattered down experience for a FF11 player. They kinda have them over a barrel I guess, which is sad in my opinion.
#12 Apr 29 2015 at 9:04 AM Rating: Default
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
Good thing about XIV is I don't feel I have to stick around because of all the Years I have put in it or even the fact it has Final Fantasy in the title. I can list a lot of things I love about XIV, course I miss a few things on XI but trying to compare effectively a 1 Year old game to something I lived on almost a decade with multi updates/expansions... in a few years will be a relevant time to really compare XI vs XIV. BUT considering what we have so far? XIV is a much better game and I don't DONT miss seeking as a THF or DRG for 6 hours on XI. I know that's no where near as bad these days but I look back and I see a lot of pain and things I shouldn't of put up with. Playing a game is not seeking or camping for hours...



I think the biggest difference between XI and XIV is the amount of investment needed to play the game.

With FFXIV, you could start playing the game today and be totally "caught up" to the endgame crowd within a month of dinging level 50... and in even less time, you can have gear with a high enough iLevel to do most of the content in the game. And running dungeons/ doing raids/ etc. doesn't require any pre-planning, trying to build groups, etc... just queue up in the duty finder and wait for your party to start. It's a game that allows you to make bigger strides with much less of a time investment.

With FFXI, you need to be able to invest more time into grinding, and you often need groups to get things done. There's more time in the game spent on logistics, looking for groups, etc. The best gear is much harder to get. Everything just takes longer.

While that sounds like a slam-dunk win for FFXIV, the other side of the coin is that it's also easier to walk away from FFXIV. There's less of an emotional investment into the game, whereas with FFXI, you've got to really love it in order to endure all the grinding. Over the years, FFXI definitely made people work a lot harder, which made quitting Vana'diel much more difficult. I could take a six-month break from FFXIV and not even worry about really "missing" anything. With FFXI, I'd be terrified of being left in the dust.



Although I some what agree with you, when you start spending a lot more time to get things done. All jobs, even going or gathering acheivements - it is becoming more of an investment of what I don't want to lose if I quit - similar to XI. Although has only taken me since 2.0 release to get all that done, its still over a year of my life I've used up and don't really want to quit for a waste. Understand what your saying, it probably is easier to quit at the start due to the amount of time it takes to get 50 > end game fun. BUT on that comparison you needed a lot more patience/devotion to stick with XI because even though it said "don't forget your loved ones and take a break" you still had to give up your life to achieve anything even the smaller things.

There are the pros and cons for either setup. I think how XIV has done it, is spot on right. There is the quick buck fun, but long term need patience and devotion. Like gathering 4000 times for one area... yes I am doing that at the mo... :(
#13 Apr 29 2015 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think that there is any hidden push to get people to switch to XIV. I just think XI is 13 years old, and its time has come. It was an amazing ride and I played 8 years and still check up on it weekly even though I last played in 2011.

I do think, however, that the mobile garbage they have planned for XI will be an absolute disaster and will forever ruin everything associated with XI. I have a feeling it will be Final Fantasy All the Bravest part 2 - total cash grab with everything gated behind pay doors to advance. They probably hope the nostalgia goggles will take over, and for many, it probably will, but I see it crashing and burning.

They needed to not have any further mobile game and instead create a finale with like a month-long celebration with all the things we loved about the game. Bring everyone back for that final month, free fireworks, Jeuno Christmas music, GMs handing out relics. Have events like lvl-synced dunes parties, lvl 75 Dynamis runs. Just bring it to an awesome end, then flip the switch and roll the credits. People will be sad, I get that, but I would much rather see my #1 game of all time ever go out on a high note so I can look back at it fondly. Letting it continue in a comatose, non-updated, cash grab state just sucks.
#14 Apr 29 2015 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Loris wrote:
I don't think that there is any hidden push to get people to switch to XIV. I just think XI is 13 years old, and its time has come. It was an amazing ride and I played 8 years and still check up on it weekly even though I last played in 2011.

I do think, however, that the mobile garbage they have planned for XI will be an absolute disaster and will forever ruin everything associated with XI. I have a feeling it will be Final Fantasy All the Bravest part 2 - total cash grab with everything gated behind pay doors to advance. They probably hope the nostalgia goggles will take over, and for many, it probably will, but I see it crashing and burning.

They needed to not have any further mobile game and instead create a finale with like a month-long celebration with all the things we loved about the game. Bring everyone back for that final month, free fireworks, Jeuno Christmas music, GMs handing out relics. Have events like lvl-synced dunes parties, lvl 75 Dynamis runs. Just bring it to an awesome end, then flip the switch and roll the credits. People will be sad, I get that, but I would much rather see my #1 game of all time ever go out on a high note so I can look back at it fondly. Letting it continue in a comatose, non-updated, cash grab state just sucks.


Well age is irrelevant honestly, if it has a lot of players for its age and is making money. That is all that matters. Everquest came out in 1999 and is still running, still profitable and just had its 21st expansion in October 2014. It is free to play with an optional subscription, that obviously enough pay to remain profitable.

The thing that screams to me that they were doing this whole thing as a stunt to get players to move isn't so much what they did, more how they did it. If they wanted to slow down updates they could of done that easily. They could of changed to twice yearly updates, or even once a year.

However to flat out state you are ceasing all updates in a few months and close the game down on consoles is akin to telling your date "you look so pretty tonight, btw I have an std. Now what shall we order?"

See what I mean? Why on earth would you do that knowing it's one of the worst things you can say to an mmo player. No company wants to lose 80 thousands people paying a monthly subscription for no real reason. Unless there is a backup plan.
#15 Apr 29 2015 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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I think their backup plan is mobile FFXI. I get the move to mobile since everyone has a smartphone, but a mobile MMO like FFXI just can't work. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I don't think I can play it even if I wanted. I have a current--gen Galaxy so I can run it, but what about battery life? I barely make it a day as is. Or what about data? A constantly streaming game will destroy my 4GB data, and I don't have wi-fi access most of the day.
#16 Apr 29 2015 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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It's incredibly obtuse to think people would be okay with an update once or twice a year, especially as a sub game, in today's market. It's time to realize the game you loved was holding you hostage. Seriously, you were afraid to quit. Afraid. I'll let you in on a little secret, though. People fall behind in today's games, too. For exactly the same reasons they do and did in XI. These games aren't about world firsts, who deserves what most, warring against instant gratification, or whatever things are getting perverted to nowadays. Making friends is on you putting yourself out there. Not everyone is going to bite, and that's okay. Not everyone is on the prowl for new buddies. It's not about being forced into the same content hundreds of times or standing at a camp for 3 hours a day every day for years. That sounds like yard time in a prison to me. Grieve for XI, fine, but let go. Stay away from MMOs for a while. You're not looking at them as entertainment at this point, you're looking at them as your life.
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#17 Apr 30 2015 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think anyone really sees the mobile game as anything but fluff honestly, nobody that plays ff11 is really going to move to that. It's a mobile game for one and it's by nexon.

As for nobody accepting updates every 6 months, Eve online often had twice yearly updates.

The thing is the message it gives, stopping updates is differerent than slowing update. A game with no updates is a genuinly dead and stagnant game, a game with 2 updates a year is honestly, the norm.
#18 Apr 30 2015 at 5:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Apr 30th 2015 7:28am by Runespider
#19 Apr 30 2015 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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As an EX-FFXI player myself, I am sad to see the game go but glad it is also coming to an end. It's time. I just hope they release some sort of offline experience in order to still experience the story for the generation of gamers that come after us.

Additionally, I plan on returning with a new character just to complete all of the story, and I am honestly looking forward to it. My favorite part about this game was the story content.

We must recognize that FFXI and FFXIV are too different games. They cannot expect people to migrate to one, that's silly. It's most likely the fact that FFXI is becoming less and less profitable. It's hard to say. The only thing we can do is give support, rather than come up with conspiracies.

Edited, Apr 30th 2015 7:07pm by Stilivan
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#20 May 01 2015 at 5:41 AM Rating: Default
Runespider wrote:


Well age is irrelevant honestly, if it has a lot of players for its age and is making money. That is all that matters. Everquest came out in 1999 and is still running, still profitable and just had its 21st expansion in October 2014. It is free to play with an optional subscription, that obviously enough pay to remain profitable.


Age is relevant, its very relevant in a day and age where there are plenty of choices. New MMO's are being announced often and with more and more games heading down the less single player content but more MMO style or Multiplayer SE has to look at XI being worthwhile. How many expensive MMOs have had to revert to F2P just to survive.

As I said before even if they were gaining a nice little profit, is it a big enough gain to warrant more expenditure.
Comparison between Everquest is also very different, you are comparing essentially one of the first early MMOs which has a good fan base. 21 expansions and the option for subscriptions (its actually one game I've never played) to me says that's how they make their money. Looking at those 21 expansions for most of them they were released every 8 months or so which has also changed to 1 every 12 months. Looking at the estimated numbers of people with accounts as well, to me asks the question how long will everquest last.

For SE to change the XI model would require work but could they do it? well yes the option is there for a F2P but then what do the subscribers pay for? instead of content updates does SE then do expansions? well they have already cancelled that.

Everquest I assume has not had a major engine update? which means creating content is probably a lot more easier compared to XI.

Very big differences between these two games, XI at its height was never ground breaking - WoW was. Where as Everquest was ground breaking when it was first released. What was their main rival? Ultima Online?...

Age is very relevant in todays world. Especially when people want fancy graphics, high content, high quality content. Why pay for XI when there are other options? For F2P although there are options - most of them are low quality and you finish in a few weeks.
#21 May 01 2015 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Might someone at SE hope for that? Sure, I wouldn't doubt it. Will it convince the XI loyalists? Nope. This is usually the point where someone might try to rationalize they're two different games, but I think it's more apt to recognize them as two different eras of MMOs. XI simply isn't capable of some of the more modern things under its engine


The irony is: XI managed and manages to do so much more that XIV currently isn't doing. So it's not an engine problem, that's like saying Unity can't do AI properly because it's not the Unreal 4 engine. It's a development problem, specifically direction problem. Yoshida doesn't want to "increase backend load times" which is why XIV feels more limited than XI when it comes to storage space - Look at the Porter Mog system, something that would kill XIV in a heart beat.

Quote:
In time, I think the "hatred" for what XIV has done to XI, real or imagined, will wane.


I don't think it will ever fade and none of it is imagined. XIV 1.0 was developed during WoTG, 2007 and released during 2010. Not only did they skim on XI development to make 1.0, 1.0 was never even completed at the end of it all. So that's a good bit of why XI suffered during that time and WoTG, to this date, remains the only expansion that spread its main content out as long as it did. Then comes ARR, which SE openly admitted to pulling almost every department and development member onto it, including XI's dev team, which ques: Abyssea trilogy which again, made permanent damage to XI whether good or bad, none of this would have happened in the way it did if it wasn't for XIV.

You're thinking purely player focus, but from THE OTHER SIDE of the coin, e.g developers, it did hurt XI pretty badly, and it was obvious, not imagined. Honestly, when you actually work in the industry, even for a year certain things become quite obvious to you much like when you're playing online games in general you'll ***** and moan about problems and "OMG 7 HOURS TO MAKE ONE CHANGE?", yet when you're the same person after working in the field relating to server technology, you immediately realize what's actually happening and no longer blindly assuming things.

It's not a "hidden push", SE made it clear over the last 2 years XIV will be their main MMO focus since it's the current hot topic. DQX is even suffering a bit due to ARR's development, more directly so because it was Yoshida's child essentially. Now ARR and HW is his next. XI would have been revamped and/or given an offline version as well but SE doesn't want to devote resources to it, which is why Heavensward being essentially 2.0 yet again isn't exactly the wisest decision but the MMO in general is geared more towards newer people to MMOs (Yoshida makes this clear) and the fact it's vertical progression but in the same breath he says the progression is halted until 3.1 (which is weird for an expansion alone that raises level cap to halt progress until the following update whereas in XI your "best in slot" was always split between multiple content) it's just weird times.

Quote:
XI at its height was never ground breaking


Incorrect. XI introduced an actual storyline that felt like such. Gameplay elements that were similar to older MMOs like EQ (what it was inspired by) and even to this day still introduced more features and content concepts other MMOs haven't. In reality, it's the older MMOs that are ground breaking, none of the new ones will ever come as such. Saying WoW was groundbreaking is weird when all WoW did was make MMOs easier to get into..it didn't exactly change the genre for the better.

If anything, Maplestory is groundbreaking, because it shown developers you can make SERIOUS bank on people, when before developers, by large, considered MMOs to not be insanely profitable and more of a risk than just sticking to offline titles. This kind of statement is why there will always be hate, because it's really hard to deny that XI, not only one of SE's most profitable titles ever, did indeed bring a lot to the genre for its time. WoW was released only 2 years later, meaning it was still an "older" MMO.



Edited, May 1st 2015 7:38am by Theonehio
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#22 May 03 2015 at 1:40 AM Rating: Decent
Theonehio wrote:
Yoshida doesn't want to "increase backend load times" which is why XIV feels more limited than XI when it comes to storage space - Look at the Porter Mog system, something that would kill XIV in a heart beat.


ARR has had like 1000+ inventory space per character right from the get-go. FFXI could only wish for so much storage without silly gimmicks to circumvent bad 2002 design. Earth is calling, Theonehio.
#23 May 06 2015 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Yoshida doesn't want to "increase backend load times" which is why XIV feels more limited than XI when it comes to storage space - Look at the Porter Mog system, something that would kill XIV in a heart beat.


ARR has had like 1000+ inventory space per character right from the get-go. FFXI could only wish for so much storage without silly gimmicks to circumvent bad 2002 design. Earth is calling, Theonehio.

1000 space per character? Since when? I've played XIV since 1.0 beta and I have never had 1000 slots, ever! Highest number I can figure is around 700+ or so including armoire, two retainers, and all armoury and inventory space as at the launch of 2.0.

OTOH, FFXI has had housing for everyone since release and FFXIV can't even manage to provide housing for 5% of players due to server restrictions, and those that exist cost unGodly amounts of gil for individual players who want a home of their own, not a single room as part of the Free Company's mansion.

And of course, no in XI you have a mog garden of your very own as well, something the bed-sitter FFXIV FC members can only dream of.

Edited, May 6th 2015 10:23am by Kragorn
#24 May 06 2015 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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I won't deny XIV has dropped the ball on housing, but it also took a different approach in being a visible piece of land. If they just went the route of the pseudo-instanced mog house, sure, it probably wouldn't be as load intensive, but it is what it is.

I'm more inclined to give the inventory management nod to XIV, though. No gobbiebag shenanigans or making sure you feed an NPC currency to keep a specific section open. Fewer situational gear requirements, thus a lesser need for active space, can be viewed as a blessing or a curse. Something like craft-class specific gear was probably a mistake on SE's part, but the future there seems to be steering more toward specialization, if not singular sets.
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#25 May 06 2015 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kragorn wrote:
Hyanmen wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Yoshida doesn't want to "increase backend load times" which is why XIV feels more limited than XI when it comes to storage space - Look at the Porter Mog system, something that would kill XIV in a heart beat.


ARR has had like 1000+ inventory space per character right from the get-go. FFXI could only wish for so much storage without silly gimmicks to circumvent bad 2002 design. Earth is calling, Theonehio.

1000 space per character? Since when? I've played XIV since 1.0 beta and I have never had 1000 slots, ever! Highest number I can figure is around 700+ or so including armoire, two retainers, and all armoury and inventory space as at the launch of 2.0.


700 =4 retainers x 175
100 = inventory
300 = armory chest 12 slots x 25
1100

Add in the armoire and you might be pushing 1250-1300
Add in 80 more (4 retainers selling 20 each) and you're definitely at 1300
Add in FC chest (assuming trust among members) and you're even higher

Now that I've been playing XIV a while, going back to XI and changing jobs would drive me completely nuts. Also, gear in your inventory, crystals in your inventory, unstackables, stacks of 12 only, 7 sale spots on the Auction House...ugh. I switch back and forth too much in XIV, probably using 5-6 different jobs every time I play (craft, gather, battle) Not to mention the drag/drop functionality of XIV with your mouse and pretty much having to keep lists on a spreadsheet or outside paper to keep track of all the gear stored at all the different places in XI. Yea, no thanks. Don't get me wrong, I love XI but its old. I might as well get out my flip phone, 24" tube TV and VCR and relive 2004.

#26 May 14 2015 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Runespider wrote:
Do you think it will work as intended? To me I see the ending of XI as a gamble to make players move to XIV. there is simply no logical reason they would do what they are doing unless there is an ulterior motive behind it.

Obviously I'm assuming the reason they are really killing this game off and completely disregarding the "PS2 limitations" excuse.

As a XI player I simply cannot get into XIV at all so I'm curious what others think, I would say this is probably because unlike some I actually did play WoW and didn't like it so this isn't a case of I liked the wow type experience but never actually tried it. As such I don't like XIV either.

Do you think many XI vets will actually swap over and their plan will see fruition or will they simply have less players total than they did before?


Personally, i'm into XIV at the moment, but it really does start to wear thin after returning for a couple of months. Even now i've got lots of things to work on, but I just can't be assed. It's not a great sign when my breaks grow increasingly long, such as the last one being six months' time. Not even the allure of Ninja or Final Coil being added there could bring me back sooner. I have never been able to put my finger on it, but it still lacks 'soul', which XI and even (gasp) XIV 1.0 had. Perhaps with veering away from the conclusion of the 1.0 storyline (after five years), Heavensward will bring that soul into the game.

I, like the OP, played WoW off/on and still long (sometimes doing a free trial or free weekend) to return quite often. Despite the 'toon' effect and models, that game has a ton of lore, immersion and so many nooks and crannies to explore. Granted Blizzard has done a serious number on their own title since the launch of WoD, but it's still an incredible MMO, just like XI. So, I guess this long-winded answer is, XIV generally appeals to an entirely different mindset with regard to players than XI and WoW. The latter being older, more traditional MMOs in their structure and delivery of content, which appeals to a lot more people than you'd think. I don't care what developers and producers think, the casual gaming market really hasn't brought us anything of value outside of two or three MMOs within the past ten years. The reason XI, WoW, LoTRO, EQ and the like are still going and alive is because they garnered a heady and dedicated fanbase from the start. Many people I run into within XIV have the same feelings as myself, that it's simply too easy to put down the controller/mouse and walk away (almost permanently).

I know some more prevalent posters on this forum have recently swapped to XIV, but only because the subs in XI are just too low to get anything done for themselves or their linkshells. I'm sure they'd gladly return if there was a significant boost in numbers, but sadly I think the ebb is where this game will continue, instead of the flow. I did give up XI, but there's a slim chance i'll return in November to experience the final story. Time will tell.

Edited, May 14th 2015 12:02pm by Dallie
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