The "real" way to make FFXI more "alive" again.Follow

Just a suggestion, but can you tell us why you feel that going F2P is the only option left?

Install Everquest after it went F2P, the client nags about upgrading to gold account 3 seconds after I enter the realm.

And where exactly would SE make their money once it went F2P?

I'm going to say "oh God please no."

You guys don't remember the Bad Old Days of virtual worlds before Everquest. There were two types: The hourly subscriptions and the F2P model. When EQ came out with its flat monthly rate, it was an amazing success because it put everyone on an equal playing field for the first time. In previous models, you either had the $$$ to pay two dollars an hour to do events, or you had the $$$ to buy everything you wanted to be "the best." EQ's monthly subscription model made it possible, for the first time, for someone who had more free time than they had RL money to succeed in the game.

A F2P model for an MMORPG is essentially legalized RMT. SE can sell gil directly, but more likely they'll merc out specific items or even worse, sell instance access on a per entry basis. This is SE we're talking about here; I don't trust them to set up a fair and reasonable F2P system that only gives shiny bonus items that don't affect gameplay.

What new audience would SE capture with a F2P model anyway? XI does not appeal to people like my room mate who plays Gaia. She isn't a gamer, she is a cosplayer. The entry barrier for XI is not prohibitively expensive, either. $10 gives you 30 free days of gameplay before the billing rolls over to $12.95 a month. Successful F2P games are made mostly for casual players with the premium goodies reserved for people who don't know how to game the system. (Pay no attention to the 30 extra Facebook accounts I made for Farmville... *cough*) Anyway, someone who can't afford $12.95 a month right now probably also should not be spending the vast amounts of time that a game like FFXI requires, either because it means they're still in high school or in college without a job.

XI's community is also, by and large, a very mature one. I don't want to come off sounding like an elitist prick here, but the reason I'd stop playing if XI switches to F2P isn't necessarily because I couldn't afford the stuff (I mean, I pay for two accounts and ten characters already), but because I'd rather not play a game where the shout channel looks like the Teen Spirit chat room on Compuserve did when I was fifteen. XI's twenty-to-forty-something community is regarded widely as the "adult in the room" of MMOs, whereas WoW is the giant frat party in comparison. Making the game F2P could potentially make it ripe for trolls and @#%^s. The current "token fee for a copy of the game" vs "limited totally free trial" model ensures that jerks aren't creating accounts solely for the purpose of harassing other people.

Like I mentioned last time this came up, so much... discriminatory hatred for even the concept. It's almost like F2P is the cool thing to racially profile of the gaming world. I'm going to target Cat on this because she's basically implied similar in multiple threads on the subject: People aren't just going to mysteriously suck more with the monthly fee removed. I've lost track of the inane shout wars I saw in Jeuno, leading me to either leaving the zone or turning on the filter. Trolls will be trolls regardless of the price tag. If there's one thing FFXI has successfully embittered me toward when it comes to the social dynamics of people interaction, it's that these so-called "adults" that are supposed to be our mature and friendly playerbase can quite easily be the most juvenile and cruel examples of humanity's worst if given the chance with no consequence for their behavior. We've all been around long enough to hear the tales of stolen NMs, ninja'd drops, barging into occupied camps, and so on down the line of poor behavior. This presumption that people having to pay translates to a block of bad behavior just isn't true. And while WoW is the hip cat to bash as this teenage wasteland of the gaming community, keep in mind FFXI lacks truly global channels. Those mosquito buzzing voices are very, very, very easy to avoid. Though, I feel like we're back in the days of RMT tells where one every couple hours was such a violent affront to the eyes that it somehow justified the vicious neutering and eventual incarnation of XI's current trial. If there's one thing I'll give the XI community, it's that they can be entirely over-dramatic. I've been vulnerable of this, too.

All that aside, success of the F2P model hinges largely on the game's design. Yes, there are definitely some bad games out there that have come and gone, but I'd say that's more because they were bad games and not P2P. Even P2P games have seen their share of decline, what with stuff like LotR:O, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Matrix, and so on either collapsing entirely or switching the the F2P model. Now, FFXI has certainly proven itself stable enough. I'm also of the mind it's not particularly expensive to run and maintain. Updating may be the snag, but we're also seeing that with the game currently being P2P. Oops? The following is something I'd seen another poster comment on when talking FFXI and F2P.



None of these really involve a drastic overhaul of the game, nor or are they some glaring advantage between those who buy and those who don't. I would assume all could be configured into a consumable item in regards to quest clears or KI bestowals. Should new zones come about later, they could also be bought much like mini add-ons. The obsession with a "boxed expansion" really isn't needed, as the physical media means nothing. It's the data that matters, and that can be distributed via download. And if FFXI's past history of incomplete expansion releases is any indication, giving us a new zone or two every couple months won't be much different.

Honestly, I'd be curious to see some usage statistics from SE. Unfortunately, I'm too skeptical to trust them as anything that would indicate a decline in player numbers and activity would support a lot of the naysaying and calls for attention myself and others have been making over the past year. To reiterate, though, setting XI on auto-pilot wouldn't be a particularly expensive venture. I suspect a lot of people would also enjoy the freedom of being able to come and go at their own whim without being tied to the monthly fee, no matter insignificant some may feel it. For veterans and new players alike, the perceived sentiment of, "Thanks for your patronage for over a decade! Feel free to come and enjoy the game on our dime!" would probably do more for renewing interest than announcing yet another shallow (incomplete) expansion likely lacking new jobs as is.

Thanks for the correction.

As for Seriha... racial profiling, really? Businesses aren't people unless you're certain presidential candidates, and we're talking about video game business models here. I never said that people who play F2P games inherently suck more, or that there haven't been successful F2P games in the past. Goodness knows Zynga is rolling in the dough.

I will stand by my argument, however, that a properly built F2P game attracts a different sort of audience, and that audience is probably not the kind of person who will spend hours upon hours in an immersive game like XI. While today's gameplay is more casual than ever, it's still not casual enough for the folks who just want to dress up in cute outfits and play a mini game for twenty minutes for an easy reward, or pop onto Facebook and run a bank heist in Bangkok on their coffee break.

I'm trying to think of a real world analogy to express why it won't work, and I think I found one.

In Atlanta, there are two major interstates that intersect and merge in the center of the city, I-75 and I-85. For the 1996 Olympics, the city put in HOV lanes for all the buses and groups who'd be coming into the city. After the Olympics were over, they left the lanes in place, and those cars with 2 or more people in them could continue to use the lanes freely.

Fast forward to the budget shortfall of 2010. The governor was faced with three choices to raise revenues on the roads: Raise taxes, impose a toll for everyone on those interstates, or impose a "freemium" model that turned the HOV lane into an optional toll lane. When surveyed, people were vehemently opposed to the tax increase (of course) and generally negative about a universal toll for everyone.

So the state made the option for the "freemium" model and spent millions of dollars and DOT resources into putting together the optional toll infrastructure.

Six months later, the project has been declared a total and utter disaster by the people of Atlanta, although the city is swearing that with 100K passes in the wild, their system is a success. (Compare this with the nearly 300K passes issued for the Georgia 400, the toll highway that runs from North ATL down to the heart of the city.)

It seemed like a great idea on paper, but the city is bleeding money on it every day because people don't want to pay the exorbitant rush hour traffic fees, and don't need to pay the low traffic hour fees since, well, there's no traffic. (If I wanted to cruise the length of I-85 from the ATL airport to my highway, 316, at 1am, I'd have to pay about fifty cents. But why bother? I can go 75 MPH in the rightmost lane at 1AM!) Instead, normal commuters are now crammed into one less lane on an interstate. It's added a half hour to the commutes of a lot of people because of the traffic jams. At $6 a day for back and forth during rush hour, the majority of people who live in the suburbs just don't want to bother. That's $120 a month!

Putting XI on a free to play model would have the same risk and probably the same outcome. Getting 100K additional subscribers would be a fantastic coup and could be touted as a success for the devs, until they discover that only 10% of those people are paying them any money at all, and most of those that are are only paying a few dollars here and there each month.

I'd rather they devote the type of time and labor it'd take to implement a F2P system into, you know, actual content instead and leave the current monthly sub fee model as it is.

Edited, May 6th 2012 4:07pm by catwho

What servers diminishing are you talking about? I'm truly confused over that. Bismarck has had a relatively stable and healthy population ever since the merge two years ago, at least as evidenced by the number of times we've gone to camp a relatively minor NM or do some obscure activity and there's already another group there doing it. 1500-3000 players on at any given time is nothing to sneeze at.

If XI's base subscription had dropped to the levels of XIV, I'd be more inclined to consider your arguments for F2P. But XI still one of the more populous MMOs on the market, despite the age of the game.

I'm still holding out hopes for some good news from Vanafest. The roadmap that they've already released doesn't go past 2012. That gives me some reason to believe they might have something planned for 2013 that will make the current cycle of filler content feel less depressing.

29 posts? F2P? Troll.

FFXI is still profitable. In fact, it's SE's only profitable online venture. Yes, Everquest went F2P but read the fine print; it's a glorified trial demo of the game, a lot of restrictions. And FFXI's user-base is older (I primarily mean that as coming from the old school era of MMOs, not the new school era), so F2P would alienate and repulse more of them than it would draw in new gamers, who are so graphics-obsessed, they would ridicule FFXI to high hell instead of look past their own projected shallow conceits and look to the gameplay and how the game feels, how it plays.

And yes, it's not the subscriptions alienating players, it's the aimlessness, the lack of direction, or to get down to the core, the lack of an expansion (which at its core is new content, an implicit promise of content quarterly over a span of under 2 years or so, a new story, and a sense of direction). While people have been bitching about the game since release, clearly they've loved it more than they hated it that it was such a success for so long. The game was only seriously mismanaged since around early 2009 or so.

DAoC is still subscription-based. It has fewer than 10,000 players.

Yep, DDO is an extremely solid implementation, but with the new EXP Tomes (permanent EXP bonus), I'd say they've moved a large step in the pay-to-win direction, which is disappointing. Still, F2P is not a death-knell for games. catwho seems to compare F2P to games that used payment models back in the era EQ was prime, and frankly, companies have evolved from that state. I think FFXI actually NEEDS to move to a F2P model to keep most of the game relevant.

Right now they have the customer service and content update support of a F2P game so they're half-way there already!

Fair enough I'll amend: Right now they have the customer service and content update support of some of the more notoriously bad F2P games.

There ya go, spreading the doom and gloom assumption that a F2P variant would be neutered to hell and back for non-payers.

While not a game without its flaws, Aion holds no feature restrictions for their NA players. I'm sure some GW2 fanboy could jump in and talk all about Arena.net's upcoming model, too.

Edit: And just because...

Remember a time when an Abyssea add-on was $10 apiece? Why was it later bundled with the primary game and previous expansions for a price at least 33% cheaper for those who'd go and pick up the game today? It's pretty much the token incarnation of a cash grab, and 200k players sucking up the 3 add-ons was an easy 6 mil for SE's pockets. This, of course, on top of the monthly fee.

Dear friends, I postulate that SE employed a F2P tactic upon us by locking a series of zones behind a digital wall! Ready those torches and pitchforks.

If the "Ah ha!" moment hasn't hit, consider that they could pump out individual zones at $5 a pop every 3-4 months with all the fixings of NMs, Quests, and possible new events or systems. This is functionally no different than Abyssea, let alone the fabled box expansion that would "save" the game. So, why the difference in being glad to pay for one, but abhor the other?

Edited, May 7th 2012 7:29pm by Seriha

But at least it's actual evidence vs. the the theory espoused by the OP.

Fact: Many of my friends play video games
Fact: None of them wants to play FFXI, even the ones who used to during more exciting periods and even if they aren't paying.

As much as it might worry me for FFXI to become F2P, it is literally the only way I'd ever be able to come back to the game, being there are no jobs within 3,000 miles of here that offer livable wages.

Although, some articles I have read suggest that SE might actually make more money with a F2P model, thus bringing more content to the game. This is debatable though.

If FFXI went F2P I wouldn't mind as long as it didn't turn into Visa Warz. DDO sounds like a good implementation of F2P.

If FFXI ever did go free to play you only have to look at how much they rip you off on the sub 12.99 a month (most expensive MMO sub that exists, including their new one) to see they would rip the crap out of the players with buy to win shops.

As a FFXI player you aren't valued any more than a fat cow that they want to milk dry.

I was torn on the permanent XP boost tomes. On one hand it does feel kinda P2W because it allows a character to level faster, but on the other hand it's ridiculously expensive and 20% isn't that big a boost (vs the cost), XP potions do as much. I really see it as something for those people who want to TR a bunch of times. Its only valid on the character it's used on not on the entire account, plus it doesn't help you hit 400~500 HP with all the twinks for Lv 18+ elite / epic raids so not really effecting "end game" just shortening the raw grind to 20 three times in a row haha.

For FFXI ... I just don't trust the current crop of develops. They have no idea how we actually play the game and instead think we're all either a bunch of JP CosPlayers or super hardcore 8hrs a day no-life video game nerds. I think everyone here can agree that no matter what they do, the current crop of dev's will find some way to screw it up.

IMHO the OP seems to be trolling.

I do kind of agree with TheBarrister, I would love for there to be an "Abyssea 2.0" implemented (WITHOUT TANAKA'S FINGERPRINTS ON IT) as I fully support any ideas on brand new content.

Another idea I've had for a while that I wish SE would implement (AND is based on Final Fantasy lore) is a "Job Upgrade" system just like in the original Final Fantasy.
Though there would be the "slight" inconvenience of starting your favorite job as Lv. 1 again, it would revitalize the lower level areas of the game, and those who are either brand new to the game, or are leveling up another job will actually be able to get a party in the dunes or wherever and get help with getting EXP instead of being forced to solo all the time. I believe it's that "being forced to solo mostly" part that rubs new players the wrong way and they decide to quit. Yes, INB4 Gusgen Mines Page Party, but IMO that's no way to get a job leveled. That's gimping your skills already as soon as you join that party, as you gain exp and level up way before you cap skills for the level you're atl.

While it's a different genre from FFXI, Team Fortress 2 went free to play and it's gotten more popular because of it.

F2P isn't evil. It just needs to be done properly. I would love to see a F2P FFXI done right. It could bring new blood to the game. I don't think SE could pull it off, though.

I hate to be the one to burst your bubble there, but TF2 has always been "Free to Play". They added downloadable extras which you pay for, such as those silly hats and those lockboxes everyone hates, but the basic game is and always has been available to anyone who purchased the game.

If anything it moved more to a "pay to play" game FROM a free-to-play. Apparently spending money to get items makes games cooler. Who knew?

Edit: When I say "Free to play" I mean free after the initial purchase, such as with games like Guild Wars. There were no recurring fee's for online play aside from the basic online fees for X-Box Gold players.

Edited, May 8th 2012 4:37pm by Glitterhands

'Free' FFXI couldn't happen overnight. There's nothing in FFXI that could possibly be made into a sustainable 'premium' business model.

You can't give a permanent advantage (IE a cash-only weapon), else people will get pissed and leave. You could sell things like EXP boosts, back in the day, but EXP is so quick now that there wouldn't be much point. I don't think people would pay for drop-rate boosts.

So, what we'd need is new content, new areas, new instances, probably with an 'abyssea'-esque entry requirement and the ability to pay cash for some sort of boost inside and/or entry items.

Also, they'd probably sell costumes and emotes and silly stuff like that, but it wouldn't really be enough of a cash cow.

All that said, I'd support a F2P system just because it'd require SE to introduce new content. It's not like they'd deny us access to content we already have. Instead, they'd be forced to constantly churn out updates, new instances, new bosses, new items, new areas... else no one would buy anything. Hell, we might even get whole new jobs out of the deal, unlockable by either a ridiculously tedious quest or a few dollars.

The very nature of a F2P model causes updates to be frequent, if somewhat imbalanced... but frankly, at this point (the post-abyssea stagnation), I am willing to accept breaking the game to keep it fresh.

I thought Abyssea was going to be the end of the world; Level caps rising, mini-expansions which you're at a huge disadvantage without, leeching.... it turned out to be the most fun I've had since I had time to do erryday endgame. I feel like F2P would be the same way.

I don't think it's likely to happen anytime soon, because I don't think 'free' FFXI would really draw in a lot of new players. FFXI isn't ADD enough for the typical F2P crowd. But if we had the choice? I would say bring it on.

---

tl;dr: F2P isn't gonna happen, but I am not afraid of it.

Upside:
New players and constant updates would make for a much better gaming experience than what we have now. Subscriptions would probably remain available, providing benefits and free 'currency' to spend on cash-shop stuff. All of us would probably get a 'legacy account' bonus, but knowing SE it'd probably be like a chocobo statue or something stupid.

Downside:
The community quality would drop. People have a psychological aversion to paying for things they don't have to. Spending 15$ on a monthly sub feels better than spending 15$/month in the cash shop. Having to pay for, say, the equivalent of traverser stones would create a psychological barrier to fun; we'd feel obligated to make the most of it, killing the relaxation factor.

Edited, May 10th 2012 8:53pm by ItsAMyri

SE has gotten over three grand from me since 2004.

I would point out that the kinds of numbers I'm throwing around are for me personally - and VERY few of those games did I play for more than a year. I'm ADHD with MMORPGs, FFXI just happens to be one I frequently go back to, enough so that I stick around constantly on forums dedicated to it, even when I'm not subscribed. I've been playing since the US launch, but I probably have only been active for a bit under 3 years of that.

I know one guy who invests $300 a month into a F2P MMO.