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#1 Jul 26 2017 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
I have made some adjustments to the main site menus.

I thought I would ask for some feedback on what people would like to see on the menus or what you would like to see removed.
#2 Jul 26 2017 at 9:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you mean the place where you post updates, I don't think anyone uses that space. I usually just come here. Which menus specifically are you referring to?
#3 Jul 26 2017 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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You know that when I reply to a thread the entire site goes blank for a moment. This is a sign that the virtual server running the whole thing is not allocated with enough resources to handle ... simple transactions. We notice this. I'd post this in a place where management would notice but here we are.
#4 Jul 26 2017 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm really sorry to derail - frustration is insidious. But the menus, which did you change?
#5 Jul 26 2017 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
The posting problems are a different issue that are SQL related.

The menus I am talking about are the main site menus such as Home, Database, Wiki, Forums at the top of the site.
#6 Jul 27 2017 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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You added the expansion > armor/progression to Wiki? That's definitely something I will be using. Also new comments and recent changes will be useful too. Everything else looks cleaned up.
#7 Jul 27 2017 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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You put the wiki menu expansions in order, good on you!

The Home and Database menus look great, but I use those less so I'm not 100% sure about what is changed.
#9 Jul 27 2017 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Sorry for the posting problems folks, I'm trying to get the access I need in order to research into what exactly is causing it to happen.
#10 Jul 27 2017 at 7:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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As with everything you and the other (active) volunteers have been doing... it looks great!
#11 Jul 27 2017 at 10:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gidono wrote:
Sorry for the posting problems folks, I'm trying to get the access I need in order to research into what exactly is causing it to happen.


Would it be useful to start a thread where people could copy/paste the error message we receive when making a post? I don't think it's always the same error. I tend to tab out after posting knowing I wont get a meaningful page refresh.

Edited, Jul 28th 2017 12:13am by Taninger
#12 Jul 28 2017 at 2:03 AM Rating: Excellent
Taninger wrote:
Gidono wrote:
Sorry for the posting problems folks, I'm trying to get the access I need in order to research into what exactly is causing it to happen.


Would it be useful to start a thread where people could copy/paste the error message we receive when making a post? I don't think it's always the same error. I tend to tab out after posting knowing I wont get a meaningful page refresh.

Edited, Jul 28th 2017 12:13am by Taninger


I know all the errors and have diagnosed it through SQL debugging on the web side. It boils down to 2 SQL tables that belong to the forum posting tables. One being the actual table that all posts get inserted into and the other belonging to the post rating system. However there are other factors that can be causing inserting information into these tables to slow down not just due to the fact they are 17 years old and huge.

My theory right now without having real time information is several issues are causing it. Design of the site requiring large SQL queries on certain pages is bogging down the site. Zone pages pull quite a bit of information from multiple tables depending on how old the zone is, how many forum posts are on it and all that. The forum posts should be limited on those pages as well but aren't for some reason. I have seen some zone pages with over 200 posts (should be limited to like 35 per page) in one page and that pulls quite a bit of info from the database. Couple that with a large amount of people all hitting these zone pages with a ton of info and you got a recipe for SQL congestion.
#13 Jul 28 2017 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
well I do have one weird thing I see that I don't fully understand


I notice that the links send you to wiki links but if you hover over them they show /db/ not wiki


Database > Guides > The Buried Sea
Database > Guides > The Serpinet's Spine
Database > Guides > Other Guilds


if they are Wiki links I would love to see them moved to under the WIKI menu if not then never mind.
#15 Jul 28 2017 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
I got rid of the Guides link on the Database menu. I tried adding all the other expansion guides in the wiki drop down but there were too many so it wouldn't list them out anyways so I just added a Other Guides link to the bottom of the wiki drop down which points to the main eq wiki showing all the expansion guides we have.
#16 Jul 28 2017 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
thanks that makes the most sense , you can keep rolling in the oldest to the other links page when adding the newest Expansion.

Looks good to me
#18 Jul 28 2017 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gidono wrote:
Taninger wrote:
Gidono wrote:
Sorry for the posting problems folks, I'm trying to get the access I need in order to research into what exactly is causing it to happen.


Would it be useful to start a thread where people could copy/paste the error message we receive when making a post? I don't think it's always the same error. I tend to tab out after posting knowing I wont get a meaningful page refresh.

Edited, Jul 28th 2017 12:13am by Taninger


I know all the errors and have diagnosed it through SQL debugging on the web side. It boils down to 2 SQL tables that belong to the forum posting tables. One being the actual table that all posts get inserted into and the other belonging to the post rating system. However there are other factors that can be causing inserting information into these tables to slow down not just due to the fact they are 17 years old and huge.

My theory right now without having real time information is several issues are causing it. Design of the site requiring large SQL queries on certain pages is bogging down the site. Zone pages pull quite a bit of information from multiple tables depending on how old the zone is, how many forum posts are on it and all that. The forum posts should be limited on those pages as well but aren't for some reason. I have seen some zone pages with over 200 posts (should be limited to like 35 per page) in one page and that pulls quite a bit of info from the database. Couple that with a large amount of people all hitting these zone pages with a ton of info and you got a recipe for SQL congestion.


What if item/quest/mob/zone pages didn't load forum posts by default but provided a page link/button to load them on demand. That would decrease load if the posts weren't what the user wanted. It would also decrease load by splitting the forum post query off of the main query. I would assume decreasing the number of tables queried in any given procedure would show immediate benefits. Alternately you could modify any query to only retrieve posts from the last 5 years by default with an option to "load older posts".

Another idea: drop the post ratings from those pages. One less table to query, and weren't ratings on those pages disabled a while back anyway?

Another idea: delete sub-default posts and any replies to them. I know deleting posts isn't optimal but creating a more responsive site is pretty important.

#19 Jul 29 2017 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Taninger wrote:


What if item/quest/mob/zone pages didn't load forum posts by default but provided a page link/button to load them on demand. That would decrease load if the posts weren't what the user wanted. It would also decrease load by splitting the forum post query off of the main query. I would assume decreasing the number of tables queried in any given procedure would show immediate benefits. Alternately you could modify any query to only retrieve posts from the last 5 years by default with an option to "load older posts".

Another idea: drop the post ratings from those pages. One less table to query, and weren't ratings on those pages disabled a while back anyway?

Another idea: delete sub-default posts and any replies to them. I know deleting posts isn't optimal but creating a more responsive site is pretty important.



Pretty sure that rating posts has a timeframe, once a post is "old" you can't rate it. But... it's possibly that some really old posts here may not follow that rule, and since I don't know how that rule was implemented (was it a manual thing that Fleven & Railus set the timeframe on?) it is even possible that it only applies to a body of posts from a specific static time period.


Deleting sub-default would be 85 or 98% effective... but that small percentage of old useful posts that got evilly downrated would then be gone. I have found (and corrected) a few instances of a person sharing information about a rare NPC or raid encounter that a few someones decided shouldn't be shared and rated the person down.

As an aside... the site doesn't even delete posts the admn have nuked. You (as a user) just can't see them. That would be my first step... if the post is admn nuked it is gone. Then as admn continue the regular updating of stuff they can keep weeding out sub defaults and useless posts like the still present 1000s of posts telling how a particular class deserves a low weight item whether its stats make sense for that class or not... (for example).


You touch upon a radical notion though... if the rating system is making the site slow maybe we need to lose the ratings from everything but the general forums? Or even altogether? I know many of us worked pretty hard to earn our "colors" through the Karma system but there are quite a few low-post count people with high ratings that didn't. Could always grandfather the sages as green and gurus as red with the tag "veteran user" and just set all new users in scholar blue from now on? --I know that may sound odd coming from a person that heavily used the ratings system before ever becoming a volunteer admn, but in truth very few people that bother to login to the site use the ratings system for the last few years anyways --back when we had weekly update posts it got used a bit, but as far as good quest info or item info posts, almost no one rate them up for years here. Something to consider at least.

#20 Jul 29 2017 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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snailish wrote:

You touch upon a radical notion though... if the rating system is making the site slow maybe we need to lose the ratings from everything but the general forums? Or even altogether? I know many of us worked pretty hard to earn our "colors" through the Karma system but there are quite a few low-post count people with high ratings that didn't. Could always grandfather the sages as green and gurus as red with the tag "veteran user" and just set all new users in scholar blue from now on? --I know that may sound odd coming from a person that heavily used the ratings system before ever becoming a volunteer admn, but in truth very few people that bother to login to the site use the ratings system for the last few years anyways --back when we had weekly update posts it got used a bit, but as far as good quest info or item info posts, almost no one rate them up for years here. Something to consider at least.



I think the rating system was much more important in the past when the board was more active. I get the impression now that you have 100's to 1000's of people accessing pages and handfuls that post. To be honest, I have only used the rating system a couple of times - I wouldn't miss it if it was removed. Like you said, if people were down rating info they didn't think should "common knowledge" then it might be better to remove it. Maybe keep it on the main forum? Seems easier to remove it all together though.

Also, you can't rate admins. Only 2 non admins posted in this thread.

Edited, Jul 29th 2017 5:23pm by Taninger
#21 Jul 29 2017 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Taninger wrote:


I think the rating system was much more important in the past when the board was more active. I get the impression now that you have 100's to 1000's of people accessing pages and handfuls that post. To be honest, I have only used the rating system a couple of times - I wouldn't miss it if it was removed. Like you said, if people were down rating info they didn't think should "common knowledge" then it might be better to remove it. Maybe keep it on the main forum? Seems easier to remove it all together though.

Also, you can't rate admins. Only 2 non admins posted in this thread.

Edited, Jul 29th 2017 5:23pm by Taninger



-it's interesting in that way more anon users seem to be on lately (I remember a long stretch where 30-50 on was a really good number, it's been 160ish most of the times I have peeked in lately) but registered users have become rarer and tend towards peek in and log out behavior. So while no where near the peak activity here years ago, it is up... but not in a way that supports keeping the rating system (if the rating system is a drain on the site).


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