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#1 Jan 23 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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How much leveling xp equals one AA point...or are there variables at each level?
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#2 Jan 23 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Originally it was stated by the developers that one regular level at 51 = one AA pt, but AA has been changed since then. Also, from my personal testing, it slightly different, and 50/50 all the way through level 51, resulted in either slightly less than one AA, or slight more, I forget which now, but it was about 20% difference, one way or the other (I think it was 20% less AA). Now, since the level cap was 75, AAs are gained equally at any level for the same con mob (assuming, same xp modifiers as well), and for even (white) cons, equal to what a level 70 would have gotten against a level 70 mob prior to the AA change.

What all this means is, that now AAs are equal at any level, versus the similar conning mobs, but compared to the old system, low level AA is hugely faster than it was, and AA above 70 is slightly slower than it used to be, but there never was the old system for 71+, so no one would have ever experience the old AA system.

If still not clear, prior to TSS (The Serpent's Spine) expansion, at max level (70), everyone now gets AAs at that rate for the same conning mobs, so what a 70 got versus a level 70 mob in the old system, a 51 gets versus a 51 level mob, and an 85 gets versus an 85 level mob.

Later, an addition AA XP bonus gradient was implemented, which gives huge bonus for low total AAs, and tapers off to no bonus at 1000 total AAs. So although a level 51 vs. 51 mob, and 85 vs. an 85 mob are the same AA xp per kill, if the total AAs are both 0, then they both get a huge AA bonus for having low total AAs. However, if the 51 has 0 total AAs, and the 85 has over 1000 total AAs, then the 85 will get no bonus, but the 51 will get a huge bonus.

I know it's somewhat complex, but hopefully my explanation was clear enough to make sense of it.

Yther Ore.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2010 4:24pm by Yther
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#3 Jan 23 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Yther for your info. So that means when I ding 52 I'll have earned one AA point more or less...lvl 52 one more AA more or less...all the way to 71?
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#4 Jan 23 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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In the old system. leveling from 50 to 51 = the same experience it took to get 1 AA. But it doesn't work that way now, and trying to equate 1AA to actual level experience doesn't really seem possible without alot of testing, especially with the bonus for low AA.

And level experience varies for each level. I'm not sure how it scales, but it's exponential for sure. Like as an example, but I don't think it's this steep in EQ, let's say it takes 100 xp pts to get from 1st level to 2nd, and 200 for 2nd to 3rd, and 400 for 3rd to 4th, and 800 from 4th to 5th, and so on. My guess is it's more like, 100, then 150, then, 225, etc. The level exp has been modified several times in the past, and I don't think any one has parsed the scaling as it is now, but there are some old, yet accurate parses of xp for the low levels in the original game levelinng system.

Also, it depends on how much xp you put into AA. Press V to bring up the AA window, and at 51 or higher you can adjust the amount of xp that goes toward AA. If you go 50/50, it'll vary by mob, and how many AA you have. With the new variables it's hard to give an estimate.

Only steadfast rule, is if you set your xp to 0% to AA (100% to regular), which is what it will be by default, you will get no AAs what so ever, and only regular leveling xp. If you keep it like this you will just keep leveling without getting any AAs. So you'll have 0 AAs, at 52, at 53, etc.

If you set your xp to 100% AA (0% to regular), you will not level at all, and only gain AAs. You can bank upto 30 AAs this way, or spend some as you gain them. But once you have 30 AAs banked, and do not spend any of those 30, yoand keep you xp 100% to AA, you will be getting no xp or AA, you have to spend of the banked ones to get below 30 again to start earning more. Anywya, you'll just keep getting AAs, as long as you keep the rate at 100% and will not level, assuming there are AA items to purchase.

Thus you can start or stop AAs, at any level, and vary the amount of your experience that goes into AAs.

With the new system, I don't know of any way of saying how much level xp makes up an AA. It's not much at low AAs for sure. At 77 on my War, with amost 1200 AAs (over the AA bonus point), at 80% into AA, 20% into reg, and Leadership AA on (20% off the top toward it), I get a little less than 1 AA per 1% of level, or a bit more than 1% of level per 1 AA. This is killing dark blues to yellows in Ashengate, which is currently a hot zone. How many kills does it take to get that much xp? About 10-12 kills for 1AA and 1% reg xp. At 0% AA, 100% reg, I got 0 AA, and about 1% or more per 2 kills.

Yther Ore.
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#5 Jan 23 2010 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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To sum up the longer replies. It is not known and yes it varies.
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#6 Jan 24 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Also you will gain more aa exp until 1k aas. Then it drops off a bit, but that change was made around '08 I believe.
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#7 Jan 26 2010 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
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Remember AAxp is something you turn on or off; press 'v' ingame to open up the AA window. In the upper right corner, you'll see a +/- button, where you can define how much of your earned xp you want to direct towards AAs.

Always go 100% one or the other until you have achieved whatever goal you set for yourself. Here's an example to show you why (numbers totally made up btw). Let's say you are level 69 and have 0 AAs saved up. Working towards Leet_AA_Ability_01 (total cost 12 AAs) and level 70 at the same time means that at some point you are standing at 10 earned AAs and 75% of a level. Neither the AAs or the three quarters of your next level makes you more powerful. If, instead, you start witht he 12 AAs, you have the advantage of the Leet_AA_Ability_01 as you work your way towards level 70. Or vice versa of course - you can complete the level first, THEN go for the Leet_AA_Ability_01.

Unlike money in the bank, stored xp (unspent AAs or half a level of regular xp) is of no use whatsoever.

Except of course the buffer you want so you don't de-level if some calamity should befall you and you die. So in the real world of blood and gore, go 90% AAxp and 10% regular xp when you are working on AAs, so you store up a little regular xp.

And then there is another thing to keep track of: when you are grouped with someone who are at a higher level than yourself, you only earn AAxp at THEIR rate. So if you kill a mob that /cons red to you, but dark blue to the highest level member of your group, you only get 'dark blue' AAxp, but of you set your xp to regular, you earn the full amount for a red mob!

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#8 Jan 27 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
And then there is another thing to keep track of: when you are grouped with someone who are at a higher level than yourself, you only earn AAxp at THEIR rate. So if you kill a mob that /cons red to you, but dark blue to the highest level member of your group, you only get 'dark blue' AAxp, but of you set your xp to regular, you earn the full amount for a red mob!


On the EQ boards there is some debate about this. I will add the disclaimer, that no one has provided a link to a dev saying this changed.

For AA Exp
On the EQ boards, this is now referred to as a "grey check". If the mob is grey to the highest level in the group, then no one gets AA exp. If the mob cons green or higher to the highest level in the group, then each group member will get the AA exp based on what it cons to them individually.

For Level Exp
It still works as before, as long as you get exp while grouped with the higher level, you get your share of the exp no matter what the mob cons to the higher level.

For example, I PL my alts with my level 81 cleric. At level 54, my alts can groups with my cleric (level * 1.5 rule). So I buff up my cleric and using the Ward defensive proc and the Vow of Victory proc, I pull 20 mobs at a time in PoI/PoN. All of these mobs con grey to my cleric, but the alt gets some awesome exp.
#9 Jan 27 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I read about the "grey check" just recently. That was the first I've ever heard of it. I don't recall hearing anything from a dev that was the case (I'm not saying it's incorrect, but just that I've never seen anyone offically state that.)
#10 Jan 27 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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The grey check has been around since they redid AAs, when TSS came out. I've never seen any dev comment on it, but it has been known by the player base since then. Leadership AA is also affected by this check, and emotes even tell you so (i.e. You gain Leadership experience).

Yther Ore.
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#11 Jan 28 2010 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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For example, I PL my alts with my level 81 cleric. At level 54, my alts can groups with my cleric (level * 1.5 rule). So I buff up my cleric and using the Ward defensive proc and the Vow of Victory proc, I pull 20 mobs at a time in PoI/PoN. All of these mobs con grey to my cleric, but the alt gets some awesome regular exp.


Fixed.

Now turn your alt's xp bar to 100% AAxp, and watch - nothing.
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#12 Jan 28 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Fair enough.

The example was implied as for regular exp only (since it was after the regular exp section), but I can see that someone could have read is as an example of either.
#13 Jan 28 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default
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The grey check has been around since they redid AAs, when TSS came out. I've never seen any dev comment on it, but it has been known by the player base since then. Leadership AA is also affected by this check, and emotes even tell you so (i.e. You gain Leadership experience).


That's true. The grey check would say if you got any XP at all.

However, in addition to that, if the mob wasn't grey to the highest member in your group, everyone would get AAXP based on what that highest member conned to the mob. So if it was green to your level 85, your level 70 would earn AAXP at the 85 to green rate, even though the mob may con red to him (made up example of course.)

But what's being stated now, and in this thread, is that there is only the grey check. So if the mob is green to your 85, your level 70 gets full XXAP based on the con versus your level 70 (not reduced AAXP based on the con to your 85). That's the part that I've never heard about nor have I read any dev say was in place.

Edited, Jan 28th 2010 11:14am by amastropolo
#14 Jan 29 2010 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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But what's being stated now, and in this thread, is that there is only the grey check. So if the mob is green to your 85, your level 70 gets full XXAP based on the con versus your level 70 (not reduced AAXP based on the con to your 85). That's the part that I've never heard about nor have I read any dev say was in place


No one here said anything to that effect either.

The 'grey check' is just a consequence of what's been said a few times already: all members of a group earn AA xp based on how the mobs /con the the highest member of the group.
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#15 Jan 29 2010 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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The 'grey check' is just a consequence of what's been said a few times already: all members of a group earn AA xp based on how the mobs /con the the highest member of the group.


Not according to the discussions on the EQ boards.

REALLY OLD WAY - AA was exp based and not con based.

OLD WAY - grey check = if not grey to highest level, then everyone got AA based on the con to the highest level.

NEW WAY (per the discussions) - grey check = if not grey to the highest level, then everyones gets AA based on how the mob cons TO THEM, not the highest level.

I said this a few posts earlier.

Quote:
For AA Exp
On the EQ boards, this is now referred to as a "grey check". If the mob is grey to the highest level in the group, then no one gets AA exp. If the mob cons green or higher to the highest level in the group, then each group member will get the AA exp based on what it cons to them individually.


I also have not tested it, nor have I have seen a dev/update state that it changed.
#16 Jan 29 2010 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know how it's figured, but from my experience it hasn't changed, other than the AA bonus for lower total AAs, since TSS release. I seem to get the same AA ratio between a PLer and PLee depending on the PLees level. In other words, the for the same mobs, the level of the toon being power leveled adjusts the amount AA / kill. And probably is based on con to the lower level toon, as it's pretty high ratio, until the mobs turn yellow, then starts dropping fast each level above that, until light blue, then slowing gets closer to 1:1. But compared to regular exp, it seems similar.

Just how it has seemed to be to me over the years. Of course with the low AA bonus, it can be much more than 10:1 now, depending on the variation between the two toons AA bonus.

Anyway, I figured it was the same type of group distribution as before, as adding multiple lower level powerleveled toons to the groups, drops the rate of each lower toon, but not by a large amount, where if it was totally just based on con, number of players in group shouldn't matter, nor their level, and 2 high levels with 1 lower level, cuts the lower levels in about 1/2 / kill.

Yther Ore.

Edited, Jan 29th 2010 10:02am by Yther
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#17 Jan 31 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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No one here said anything to that effect either.


Aye, they have. Pinzarn did in his very good, detailed explanation on how AAXP works. For all I know, he's 100% correct in what he said. All I'm saying is that I never saw a dev say that it changed.


Edited, Jan 31st 2010 12:22pm by amastropolo
#18 Feb 01 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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I also have not tested it


I was thinking about this over the weekend...

The difficulty in testing this is finding a high level toon and a lower level toon that meets the following requirements:

1. Most important - they both have roughly the same amount of AA. The scaling of the AA "bonus" is messed up.
2. There is a level difference large enough to have light blue/green mobs to the high level and white/yellow to the low level.

In my small army of toons, I might have the ability to test this.

Rogue - level 85 - 157 AA
Druid - level 66 - 119 AA

Their AA amount should be close enough that the scaling should me minimal, if anything. Now where to test this??

I need mobs that are about level 67-70.
#19 Feb 01 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Dragonsale Hills should be a nice testing ground.

The trash mobs in the zone are level 68 to 70. They should be green/light blue to my rogue, and yellow/red to my druid. I'll go kill a few tonight and post my findings.
#20 Feb 01 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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The elementals in Paw are generally 66-71, with a few mobs lower (64?) and a few mobs higher (73?). Trash mobs hit for 700ish and named mobs hit for up to 1000ish, but they miss an awful lot.
#21 Feb 01 2010 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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Ok...here is my "test"

Druid - level 66, 119 AA, no exp buffs
Rogue - level 85, 157 AA, no exp buffs

Grouped together to kill 10 mobs. To the rogue, seven mobs were green, and three mobs were light blue. To the druid, seven mobs were yellow, and three were red.

The druid received 5% +/- from each mob. The druid had 60% AA exp to start, and ended with (after AA ding) 10% AA exp.

The rogue received slightly above 1% AA exp per mob. The rogue started with 43% AA exp and ended with 60% AA exp.

If everyone receives AA based on the highest level in the group then they both should have received +/- 1% AA exp per mob. The only disclaimer that I have is if the low amount of AA modifier is different between 119 AA and 157 AA.
#22 Feb 01 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you are missing something. A level 85 toon takes more aaxp to get 1 aa than a level 66.

In other words, the level 85 might require 1000 points of aaxp to get 1 full aa and the level 66 might require 500. So if a level 68 mob gives 100 aaxp to both toons, the lower level one will get 1 full aa point 2x as fast as the higher level toon.

I don't think this is testable, you'd have to be able to see the actual points given to each toon, not the % of a full.
#23 Feb 02 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think that's correct. It may have been in place for the first implementation of the AAXP change but I don't think that's the way it is now.
#24 Feb 02 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
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No one here said anything to that effect either.


Aye, they have. Pinzarn did in his very good, detailed explanation on how AAXP works. For all I know, he's 100% correct in what he said. All I'm saying is that I never saw a dev say that it changed.


Pinzarn quoted unnamed sources and he specifically said (twice) that no Dev had posted avbout this - making it an unfounded rumor rather than a fact about how AAxp works.

If it happens to fit your subjective experience, more power to you. Still just a rumor though (whether true or not), and not one invented here, which was my point.
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#25 Feb 02 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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I think you are missing something. A level 85 toon takes more aaxp to get 1 aa than a level 66.

In other words, the level 85 might require 1000 points of aaxp to get 1 full aa and the level 66 might require 500. So if a level 68 mob gives 100 aaxp to both toons, the lower level one will get 1 full aa point 2x as fast as the higher level toon.

I don't think this is testable, you'd have to be able to see the actual points given to each toon, not the % of a full.


Nope, it has often been stated that each AA point is worth the same amount across the board for everyone.

Under the really old system, each AA point was the same amount of experience that it took to progress through level 51. Let's call that amount of exp X. If you were level 52, you needed X experience for on AA. If you were level 70 you still only needed X. What the devs noticed was that high-end characters were killing mobs that gave more exp; therefore, the high-end toons (who probably had a lot of AA anyway) were getting more AA in a given time frame.

When the first AA change came out to make AA reflective of the mob's con, the devs/patch notes stated that if you were level 51 and killed 15 white con mobs (solo for the sake of arguement) that you would get the same amount of AA as a level 70 player (solo) killing 15 white con mobs.

The most precent (publisized) AA change was giving an AA bonus to players with low levels of AA. An example of this is that my rogue gets 7 AA for completing a quest (rogue has 157 AA total), but my ranger with 1,800 AA only gets 2 AA for completing the same quest. Both toons are the same level.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 9:17am by Pinzarn
#26 Feb 02 2010 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Pinzarn quoted unnamed sources and he specifically said (twice) that no Dev had posted avbout this - making it an unfounded rumor rather than a fact about how AAxp works.

If it happens to fit your subjective experience, more power to you. Still just a rumor though (whether true or not), and not one invented here, which was my point.


Actually, I didn't quote any one; however, I did make refer to the Sony EQ Forums discussions. Trust me, if I quoted someone, they'd get the credit.

Second, rather than blindly believing the party line, since there are some discussions about unpublished changes to AA, it is worth mentioning since it could be true.

Based on my simple testing, I am now leaning to the "based on highest level in the group" is no longer true.
#27 Feb 02 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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The whole problem is the amount of testing needed. Factors in exp calculation and division not including, mob bonus (within 5 levels of the toon), zone modifiers, etc.: Group division ratio (which iirc originally was toon's level divided by the sum of the group's level; Level exp ratio (this wasn't important before in AAs, as AAs were based on a fixed number of xp points b since it's based on con, it will matter, as x kills of white con = 1 AA at any level, and xp needed at any level exponentially grows).

So you figured out the group division of xp, then test the amount of AA xp, gotten on the same mbos grouped, and not grouped. Determine the amount of xp points earned via, the predetermined factors (group division, level xp), and determine whether the actual points earned were based on the con of the higher level when grouped or not.

These factors dont' seem easily determined, and no clear testing scenarios come to mind. Seems like alot of testing. All I know is, it's way better than the old system for grouping.

Yther Ore.
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