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Is this right?Follow

#1 Aug 12 2005 at 10:25 PM Rating: Decent
So I have a question for everyone, today i was playing EQ and a person from the Zek server started spamming our general channel with him selling MacroQuest precompiled and loaded with macros to people. Another person from my server told him he was stupid and for people not to buy it for various tech reasons. The Zek guy wouldn't leave him alone after that asking for exact reasons to make the guy look dumb, this is when i spoke up. To set the record straight, I don't use MQ2, thought about it at one time but decided to keep playin EQ the way it was meant to be, but I did do alot of research on it beforehand. Back to the story, so I told the Zek fellow what he was askin for and he quit spamming the channel. About 20 minutes later I start getting questioned by a GM about my knowledge of MQ2 and why I know it and such. Long story short i was told that my account is now under consideration to be banned.......I ask you is this right? Just because I have knowledge on something that goes against SOE's EULA they want to punish me? I thought there was some way the could look at the logs and tell if I was using something like that.
#2 Aug 12 2005 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
Off the top of my head mI would say no. It isn't right for your account to be suspended/banned. I don't know what Macroquest is, and I guess in this case ignorance is bliss. I would like to add that I never explain anything in game ubless it can be given in a concise way. It sounds like what you were talking about with the person from Zek was a detailed conversation(did you do it in tells?). Anyway the chat system for eq moves way to fast and people throw in their .02 along the way. Information being discussed in /ooc for example can be misinterpreted, and/or misunderstood. However just talking about something that is against sony's EULA shouldn't be grounds for any action. I mean as far as I can tell doing so shouldn't be considered an act of sedition. Good luck sir.
#3 Aug 13 2005 at 1:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I recently saw a similar occurence on Zek on the General chat channel by someone from Povar. I promptly /reported the individual. However, your encounter leads me to believe that perhaps these spammers may be gm/sony controlled inducing or even entrapping would-be cheaters.

While this is just a theory, prehaps the money made from selling hacker programs outweighs a prompt banning of one's account and said cheaters may very well not face as swift a reprisal as you or I may think.
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#4 Aug 13 2005 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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A friend of mine got his website details off him. Seems his upset alot of people with his spamming and blatant offerings of hacks.

http://gamergenesis.com/

If you know what samspade is then you can easily find lots of info about this guy.

I won't post any personal details that I have of this guy but any info i have is easily attainable via the web.

Edited, Sat Aug 13 12:54:09 2005 by Rossd
#5 Aug 13 2005 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
this guy offends me, far more than normal l33t-hax0rz. He is spamming channels not just with hacks to make money, but hacks he's ripped off other people, I don't think the man's done a minute of original work in his life.
#6 Aug 15 2005 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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*chuckle* Not flaming you but it sounds like you think original hackers are a cut above run-of-the-mill scammers. Scum is scum IMO...

Discussing or disseminating information about exploits or cheats IS grounds for banning and is clearly stated in the EULA. Seems there was a grey area as to whether or not your discussion crossed the line, and the GM was warning you.

#7 Aug 15 2005 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
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yes, imho it is good that they investigate. no harm done, if you're clean.

if they wouldn't be checking you out, I even would say, that they are not doing their job well...
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#8 Aug 15 2005 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Surely the major response to dissuade people from this is just to ask him about the keylogger he's installed in his precompiled version.

That requires no knowledge of the product whatsoever.
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#9 Aug 15 2005 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
your encounter leads me to believe that perhaps these spammers may be gm/sony controlled inducing or even entrapping would-be cheaters.


If this was SOE controlled, it would be a stupid way to curb cheating. Especially over OOC or General Channels. Why even plant the idea? Lets say 90% of the EQ population had never heard of MacroQuest. Wouldnt there be better ways to hunt out the remaining 10% (Percents are made up btw) rather than giving the other 90% the chance to think...."hmmm...wonder what that is?" or "maybe I'll look that one up?"

I wouldn't put this past SOE to do...they dont have the best track record for makng the best choices but....

Just my thoughts
#10 Aug 15 2005 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
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i dont think talking about it can be against the eula, they would have to catch you doing it.
#11 Aug 15 2005 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Yep. You can be banned for talking about it:
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/support/customer_service/cs_rules_of_conduct.jsp
Quote:
12. You will not exploit any bug in EverQuest and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in game), either directly or through public posting, to any other user of EverQuest. You will promptly report any such bug via the in-game "/bug" command.


It's definately a grey area but I guess macroquest falls into the category of exploitation that grants unnatural or unintended benefits.

I think they should clear Elmika since the MQ person on the chat was clearly the offender and other folks were merely responding.
#12 Aug 15 2005 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
In regards to #12 of the Eula...

So would this board fall under that?

(This isnt a smart @ss question btw, Who runs Alla's anyways? Or is it sanctioned by SOE?)
#13 Aug 15 2005 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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dbernor wrote:
In regards to #12 of the Eula...

So would this board fall under that?

(This isnt a smart @ss question btw, Who runs Alla's anyways? Or is it sanctioned by SOE?)

It's only related to in-game or official SOE forums. This place has no actual affiliation with Sony (that I know of) and they can't investigate solely due to discussion here.
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#14 Aug 15 2005 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I would say they have no right to ban you.

Just because you have knowledge of something doesn't mean you are using it.

SoE, as usual, is dedicating their poor CS skills in the wrong area. Instead of yelling at you, they should be banning that guy.

Sorry, friend. :(
#15 Aug 15 2005 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Just because you have knowledge of something doesn't mean you are using it.
Having knowledge is not the point. It is the dissemination of the knowledge that is actionable. Discussing exploits or bugs in /ooc is exactly that.

If I know how a certain bug works, even if I do not use it, and I tell you how to use it, and even if you don't use it either, I can still get banned.

People here (on Alla's) *usually* only discuss legal procedures to do things in-game. Many are VERY careful not to discuss exploits in detail, not because they FEAR SOE, but so as not to foster behavior of this nature. Who wants to play a game full of hacks and cheats? Not me.
#16 Aug 16 2005 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Item 12 refers to bugs and exploits, if i read it correctly, i am not sure it applies to 3rd party utilities that are (somewhat) covered in item 14 as follows:

14. You will not create, use or provide any server emulator or other site where EverQuest may be played, and you will not post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other software tools related to EverQuest without the express written permission of Sony Computer Entertainment America.

Even this does not really cover 3rd party utilities well.

Personally, i hope you do not get banned, but i do avoid all discussions related to exploits, etc at all costs. Please let us know how it turns out though if you do not mind.

Edited, Tue Aug 16 13:42:27 2005 by kasandra
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