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Twisting songs for a bardFollow

#1 Mar 27 2004 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
I am starting a Vah Shir bard and I've read a lot about twisting the songs. How do I do that and how do I set up my hotkeys to twist the songs? Also, what are the song commands or where can I look them up? Thanks so much!
#2 Mar 27 2004 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
There's a few resident bards on the boards here but with it being the weekend I'm not sure how much they're actually going to check the boards.

Your best bet on playing a bard would be to visit http://www.eqdiva.com/ for just about anything/everything concerning bardom.
#3 Mar 27 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Madahme the Charming wrote:
There's a few resident bards on the boards here but with it being the weekend I'm not sure how much they're actually going to check the boards.

Your best bet on playing a bard would be to visit http://www.eqdiva.com/ for just about anything/everything concerning bardom.


best info for bards is at EQDIVA, go there, and go there often.

as for making a song macro stick with this to cut your clicking in half.

/stopsong
/cast #

make 8 of those and you are done with song macros. you will still need an assist and pet kill hotkey, but other then that you are set.
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#4 Mar 27 2004 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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That's pretty much it. When I play my bard (which is only level 12) I don't use a macro, just hotkey the spells directly, but I'm a *********. Remember that you should be able to reliably twist 3 songs continuously, and can pulse in a 4th or even 5th effect for short times. Your connection and any lag will have a major effect on songs.
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#5 Mar 27 2004 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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with double click you will never be able to sustain 4 song twist. with the above macro i listed you can single tap your way to a 4 song twist and maintain it baring missed notes and interupts.

sub 20s, double tapping is ok, but post that you will really want to use the above macro.

as for a 5th or more song, that is only via the use of songs longer then 18secs. example is your 49th selo. it is a 2.5min song, an other is amplify. that is a 30sec song IIRC, so with those 2, and 4 others you could hit 6 songs, and there are a few other songs that last longer then 18sec.

so claiming you can maintain 5+ twist does not really count. if you can maintain a 4 song twist you are skilled at twisting. then the trick is to know what 4 songs to maintain :P
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#6 Mar 27 2004 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Yah, most bards i know don't have a twisting macro.
But if you were gonna make one it would look like this

/cast 1
/stopsong
/cast2
/stopsong
/cast 3

But everytime you fizzle it messes up your rotation. That's why i don't know any Bards that use a Twisting macro.
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#7 Mar 28 2004 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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yes, not a true twist, just single cast macro like the one i listed.

only exception would be for taining or downtime.

ie, you are a young bard and just got your first mana song and want to twist it with your heal song.

plopp up your macro twist. but be aware that if you get a missed note, you CAN NOT restart or stop the macro to make up for it. you are just fubar.

nothing major in that situation, but if doing that during a fight, with important songs, that would be a bad thing.
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#8 Mar 28 2004 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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with double click you will never be able to sustain 4 song twist
I do it on a 56k connection Smiley: tongue Usually three chants and Veeshan when kiting casters. Melee is a little harder since I'm spending more time moving around and positioning.
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#9 Mar 28 2004 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't (intend to) say that I was maintaining 4 or 5 songs, but getting 4-5 effects at a time, temporarily. Since I haven't even made it to the teens on my bard, I'm probably going about it "wrong", anyways.
#10 Mar 28 2004 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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that would be impressive. my double tap skills alowed for 3 with ease, but could not sustain a 4th.... sustain meaning unless i had a missed note, or was hit and interupted those 4 songs would stay up and running.

FYI, unless you are laggy between you and the server even a 33.6k modem can twist 3 or 4 songs.
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#11 Mar 28 2004 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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I double tap. I don't see anything wrong with doing it either way. It's kind of like the difference between driving a manual and an automatic. One is a little easier to handle, but you feel you have more control with the other. I prefer the control personally. Also, I tend to keep 4 songs up more often then not. There's so many contributing factors though, lag being a big one. And since so many things can cause lag, your 4-twist (or even 3-twist) can get messed up pretty easy. If you want to be successful at 4-twist though, my recommendation is to learn not to depend on the casting bar. Use it early on to learn your timing, but by the time you're in your 40's you shouldn't need it as much. That way you can twist even when blinded. It's also good to learn to twist based on timing instead of the casting bar because procs can cause your bar to "poof". It doesn't change the timing of the cast or even interrupt it, but procing in the middle of a cast will cause your bar to disappear, making it look like you fizzled, when in fact you didn't. Things will change quite a bit though post-50. As with all other classes that cast, you will fizzle much more often for some reason, even on low level spells (at least it seems this way to me, and pretty much everybody I've talked to about it. Maybe it's pshycological...).

Basically, it doesn't really matter if you twist 3 or 4 or if you use a macro or not. 3 doesn't make you a worse bard. The bard is a very involved class. Song selection and instrument/weapon selection can make a HUGE difference, and just knowing the nuances of the class will get you a lot of respect and a lot of enjoyment.
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#12 Sep 19 2004 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Good information here and I'll add to the twisting macro. With my bard, the only time I use a twisting macro is when I'm kiting with my dot (damage over time) songs because it doesn't matter all that much if I miss a note and have to wait 2.7 seconds for the next chant to start. There is one correction I will add to the above macro. You have to add a pause for the casting time of each song, so the macro would look like this...

/stop song
/cast 1
/pause 27
/stop song
/cast 2

I make 2 of these hotkeys for my 4 dot chants. However, when I am in a group, I prefer the single macro so I have more control over each song and can adjust for group needs/missed notes.
#13 Sep 19 2004 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Jiggidyjay wrote:
If you want to be successful at 4-twist though, my recommendation is to learn not to depend on the casting bar. Use it early on to learn your timing, but by the time you're in your 40's you shouldn't need it as much. That way you can twist even when blinded. It's also good to learn to twist based on timing instead of the casting bar because procs can cause your bar to "poof". It doesn't change the timing of the cast or even interrupt it, but procing in the middle of a cast will cause your bar to disappear, making it look like you fizzled, when in fact you didn't.


extreemly well put. that is so true. its something i picked up from EQDiva.com on the timming and not to rely on the spell bar. after a while you just feel when it is time to start your next song.
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#14 Sep 19 2004 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Well played bards are a wonder. I know I could not do it.

Won't talk about the fifty something bard I was in a group with that was unable to twist songs at all, never more that one effect/song at a time, and long stretches of just nothing.
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#15 Sep 19 2004 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm I guess someone was 2 boxing a bard (that CANT work can it?) or had GF on lap problems.
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#16 Sep 19 2004 at 9:09 PM Rating: Decent
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i have 2boxed my bard with both a wiz and a cleric, but i had very simple rolls for the wiz/cleric when i did that.

i had macros like the following for the two alts:

/sit off
/cast #
/pause X (what ever amount of spell + 0.5)
/sit on

later i started adding 2-10 seconds extra to the pause depending on what the spell was so my alts did not draw agro as at the time, and probably still now bards really can not pull agro off a cleric or nuker.

i would at the beging of a fight just alt+tab over to my alt toon, hit the assist key i made, then back to my bard until it was time for the alt to do something. with EQW and my system i could swap back and forth just as fast as i could hit those 2 keys. so getting between the 2 toons i could even keep a 3 song twist up under those situations.

i did stop doing that once i started doing a lot of swarming though.
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#17 Sep 20 2004 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I tried working with hotkeyed songs and had problems maintianing the twists. I am able to consistently twist 4 songs by double clicking on a regular basis. I was once able to get 5 songs up but that was very brief, more like an overlap of the very first song twisted and the last one. I have no idea what I was doing wrong with the hotkeys but now am so accustomed to double clicking that I dont even think about it. My bard is now level 63.
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#18 Feb 03 2016 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all. I called my brother who reminded me how to do it. Simply put, it is:

/melody 1 2 3 4

with each number representing the spell gems of the song you would like to sing so yes u could type:

/melody 4 1 3 2

if that is the order in which you want it to start singing but once you sing one round, all four songs will be in your respective buff slot at all times until interrupted or stopped. If a song is interrupted (equivalent to a fizzle on spell casters) the following song will continue to play and everything else will continue as well. You can play more songs via the same hotkey if you are building skills or something but the songs will only last a specific amount of time and most would wear off before you began singing the same song on the next round. I hope this helps. For more information, you can contact me on Lockjaw server currently. Keebo, Tequilla, and Kokkoka are three of my toons you may be able to contact me on. Good luck and have fun and remember...It's only a game!!!
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#19 Feb 03 2016 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all


LOL, the people from 12 YEARS AGO were no help at all? In not explaining a mechanic that DID NOT EXIST at the time?

How rude of them!
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#20 Feb 03 2016 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Proof that nothing posted on the Internet ever goes away.
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#21 Feb 03 2016 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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#22 Feb 03 2016 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all.


Did we miss you asking for this info in a new general forum thread?


Second site on google when you search "eq twisting bard" is the old class forums here in which the second post (currently) tells you about /melody.

First site on that search was this thread, which as others have mentioned predates the command being added to the game.
#23 Feb 03 2016 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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snailish wrote:
keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all.


Did we miss you asking for this info in a new general forum thread?


No, his last post before today was in 2011. Long on attitude, short on smarts :)
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#24 Feb 04 2016 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I miss Fansy. Wish he'd come back, especially now as DBG appears unwilling to enforce any training rules. Smiley: laugh

Anyone who doesn't know Fansy just read this hilarious bio:

Fansy the Famous Bard
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#25 Feb 04 2016 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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Sippin wrote:
I miss Fansy. Wish he'd come back, especially now as DBG appears unwilling to enforce any training rules. Smiley: laugh

Anyone who doesn't know Fansy just read this hilarious bio:

Fansy the Famous Bard


+1!!!
#26 Feb 04 2016 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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wow, spit my coffee out the first time I read that, years ago! Thanks for reminding me :)
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#27 Feb 04 2016 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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You know, to this day I'm still not sure how Fansy did the trick of training high level evil players in Oasis or Ro with sand giants. I can understand aggroing them all and outrunning them with bard speed but a low level bard has no way to clear agro. The zones in Ro and Oasis are pretty far from the usual camp spots. It would seem to me if Fansy zoned out, there's no guarantee the sand giants, on their return paths, would move close enough to the evil camps to agro on them. I see no evidence that Fansy ate a death at the evil's campsite, thereby passing the giants' hate onto them by proximity.

It's a great story but still not totally "solved" in my mind.

Edited, Feb 4th 2016 12:17pm by Sippin
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#28 Feb 04 2016 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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He did it from the grassy knoll ;)
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#29 Feb 04 2016 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Sippin wrote:
You know, to this day I'm still not sure how Fansy did the trick of training high level evil players in Oasis or Ro with sand giants. I can understand aggroing them all and outrunning them with bard speed but a low level bard has no way to clear agro. The zones in Ro and Oasis are pretty far from the usual camp spots. It would seem to me if Fansy zoned out, there's no guarantee the sand giants, on their return paths, would move close enough to the evil camps to agro on them. I see no evidence that Fansy ate a death at the evil's campsite, thereby passing the giants' hate onto them by proximity.

It's a great story but still not totally "solved" in my mind.


I vaguely recall some site or other back in the day where he drew out the routes he would run on a map to show how to do this (or someone else had based on his claims). IIRC, it wasn't about getting them to walk back through camps, so much as timing his zone out to have the SGs right in the midst of someone's camp. So, for example, you run them all the way to the southern edge of the zone, then zip across the zone along the west side to the north side, then angle a bit to the east and zone out. The SGs, being slower, would be right in the midst of the orc camps in the middle of the zone when you zone out the north side.

His routes were a bit more circular so as to make them come in at odd angles (and to get them around the lake), but I believe it was all about timing the zone to make it happen.

Spectres, of course, were much easier since they all started at the same spot and would path right through the beach area on their way back.
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#30 Feb 05 2016 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting and workable. Especially if he practiced it. Mobs, like most of us, are creatures of habit and they probably are predictable as to how/when they follow a target.
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#31 Feb 05 2016 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sippin wrote:
Interesting and workable. Especially if he practiced it. Mobs, like most of us, are creatures of habit and they probably are predictable as to how/when they follow a target.


Oh yeah. Super predictable. Doubly so back in the day. EQ had some "odd" pathing rules. And you could often find spots where mobs would take what appeared to you to be a circuitous route to get to you. There used to be a "seam" in the mob pathing on the first floor of Unrest. Basically, there was a room (dining room I think?) with a hallway running along three sides, and three entrances from said hallway, each entering from a different direction (call them North, East, and South). If you were standing in the room just inside the South doorway and aggroed the mobs, they would run straight at you, but if you backed into the hallway, they would path out the North or East doorways (depending on which was closest), then around the hallways and hit you from the side. Of course, people not aware of this might tag something in the room and back into the hall to fight it, wonder what was taking so long, only to be hit by a massive train coming around the corner in the hallway, having aggroed everything along the way.

You could, in theory, use this to your advantage though. I once made a mob basically run back and forth for several minutes by simply stepping in and out of the room. He'd run towards me, I'd step back. He's run back towards one of the other exits. I'd step back in and he'd turn around. Ok. Not terribly useful unless you'd already cleared the room first, but still something you could play around with if you wanted (and probably far more useful for say a necro using dots than my paladin). What appeared at first to be random and strange, was in fact quite predictable. It had such things because the layout of the building was somewhat circular. There were multiple routes to take, so the devs decided to simplify pathing rules to make sure mobs didn't get stuck in a room, running back and forth constantly changing the route to get to wherever the target was, but never reaching it. So the mob always had one path to get from point A to point B, even if it wasn't always the most physically direct. That path could change if you moved, but never as a result of the mobs own movement (which was the point of the coding).

They've massively improved pathing point granularity in the game since then, so this doesn't tend to happen as often, but back in the day, this sort of odd "run off to the side first, then run towards you" behavior was pretty common, even in outdoor zones. And if you learned that pathing, you could totally take advantage of it and make mobs (or trains of mobs) move in what appeared to be odd and unpredictable directions. I never used this knowledge for evil, of course, but I could see how it easily could be. And for outdoor zones, a bard was certainly the class to use to do things like figure out mob pathing and timing. So it's not unlikely at all that this is how Fansy did what he did.
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#32 Feb 05 2016 at 7:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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What's funny, in a not so funny way, is that the current xpac has some of that atrociously bad mob pathing. In pulling I've had to "nurse" mobs along to follow my puller or else they'll decide to run around half the zone spreading their hate among all their brethren before coming after my toons.
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#33 Feb 08 2016 at 5:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Haven't done anything more than poke my head in and look around in TBM, but it does seem strange that they managed to ***** up pathing that badly. I could see it happening though, because of the irregular ground. It does seem as though pathing gets bad when they have slopes and curving paths, which they seem to have adopted a lot in the last couple expansions.

One of the things you have to understand about pathing is that there are basically two methods a mob uses to get from point A to point B. Essentially every physical location in a zone is identified as being part of a subzone or region. If point A and point B are both in the same region, the mob follows a straight path within said region towards you, using pretty normal logical X/Y/Z math. If point A and point B are in different regions, the mob follows a pre-set plot of regions to get from the region they are in, to the region their target is in. And the route from region A to region B is somewhat set. This is why you'll see mobs decide to veer off at an angle, run for a distance, and then turn and make a beeline towards you. The mob is in a different region, and thinks "to get from my region to your region, I follow this path". Once it's inside your region, it will move more logically. In a flat plain, you can mitigate odd pathing by shrinking the size of each region (more granularity for pathing).

The problem is that you must identify these regions in ways so as to get mobs to properly follow things like ramps, slopes, tunnels, etc. So some regions with uneven terrain and areas with differing Z axis elevation can be a problem and often require significantly different sized regions to make pathing work at all. From a programming perspective, you have to have some way to tell the mob that to get from this room, to another room that's at a different Z coordinate, it has to travel up this ramp over there. Otherwise it might decide to take the shortest X/Y path, and get stuck running into a wall. So the ramp must be a separate region itself, which may or may not match size wise with other surrounding regions.

This is actually easier to deal with in indoor zones, where the walls of rooms constrain mob movement. In outdoor zones, it can be really really hard to get a mob to know that if you're standing in one spot, it needs to run straight across the canyon floor to get to you, but if you're 20 feet to the left, it needs to run up a path along the side of the canyon, up to the top, and around the edge to get to you. If there's just one path around, it's not too bad. But it's when there are multiple paths, with varying Z axis elevations, it can be a huge problem. And it does seem as though they've introduced some of these more "complex" zone designs recently.

We saw the same sort of thing with DoDH zones. Lots of twists and turns with open spaces around them, which made for really silly pathing. Its' a tradeoff between "interesting" zone design, and "functional" zone design. Again, if you pt everything in a flat plain, you could manage this pretty well. But that would be boring zone design.
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#34 Feb 08 2016 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
One of the things you have to understand about pathing is that there are basically two methods a mob uses to get from point A to point B. Essentially every physical location in a zone is identified as being part of a subzone or region. If point A and point B are both in the same region, the mob follows a straight path within said region towards you, using pretty normal logical X/Y/Z math. If point A and point B are in different regions, the mob follows a pre-set plot of regions to get from the region they are in, to the region their target is in. And the route from region A to region B is somewhat set. This is why you'll see mobs decide to veer off at an angle, run for a distance, and then turn and make a beeline towards you. The mob is in a different region, and thinks "to get from my region to your region, I follow this path". Once it's inside your region, it will move more logically. In a flat plain, you can mitigate odd pathing by shrinking the size of each region (more granularity for pathing).

The problem is that you must identify these regions in ways so as to get mobs to properly follow things like ramps, slopes, tunnels, etc. So some regions with uneven terrain and areas with differing Z axis elevation can be a problem and often require significantly different sized regions to make pathing work at all. From a programming perspective, you have to have some way to tell the mob that to get from this room, to another room that's at a different Z coordinate, it has to travel up this ramp over there. Otherwise it might decide to take the shortest X/Y path, and get stuck running into a wall. So the ramp must be a separate region itself, which may or may not match size wise with other surrounding regions.


This reminds me of something funny from Kunark era. I think it was an issue when Velious was current, but the zone that got mentioned was Overthere. Some enterprising necros noticed that feared mobs would flee towards one of a set of pre-selected points in a zone. This was when fear kiting was actually a thing. So someone noticed that in the Overthere, on the west side north of the zone out to Skyfire, there was a point that mobs would flee to, inside a little cubby/depression in the zone wall, which acted like a nice little niche to hold the fleeing mob. So a necro could drag the mob over there, fear it, and then just sit there and nuke without having to chase it. Some necros could keep 3 mobs tied up in there at one time. Warnings went out, and then bans.

Tat
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#35 Feb 08 2016 at 10:48 PM Rating: Excellent
GBATE!! Never saw it coming
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gbaji wrote:
One of the things you have to understand about pathing is that there are basically two methods a mob uses to get from point A to point B. Essentially every physical location in a zone is identified as being part of a subzone or region. If point A and point B are both in the same region, the mob follows a straight path within said region towards you, using pretty normal logical X/Y/Z math. If point A and point B are in different regions, the mob follows a pre-set plot of regions to get from the region they are in, to the region their target is in. And the route from region A to region B is somewhat set. This is why you'll see mobs decide to veer off at an angle, run for a distance, and then turn and make a beeline towards you. The mob is in a different region, and thinks "to get from my region to your region, I follow this path". Once it's inside your region, it will move more logically.
The orcs in GFay guarding Crushbone are all about this.

1. Get within 20 yards of a guard.
2. Hit it with (whatever)
3. Guard runs due west/east for 100 yards and comes back at you at that point.
4. ???
5. Kill that dude Smiley: laugh
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#36 Feb 12 2016 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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tatankaseventh wrote:


This reminds me of something funny from Kunark era. I think it was an issue when Velious was current, but the zone that got mentioned was Overthere. Some enterprising necros noticed that feared mobs would flee towards one of a set of pre-selected points in a zone. This was when fear kiting was actually a thing. So someone noticed that in the Overthere, on the west side north of the zone out to Skyfire, there was a point that mobs would flee to, inside a little cubby/depression in the zone wall, which acted like a nice little niche to hold the fleeing mob. So a necro could drag the mob over there, fear it, and then just sit there and nuke without having to chase it. Some necros could keep 3 mobs tied up in there at one time. Warnings went out, and then bans.

Tat


Yeah, cuz this is what's known as an exploit. I run into players pretty regularly who have no clue that you are required under the EULA to report any mechanics of the game that aren't working right and give players, including you, an unintended advantage. And then you're supposed to NOT make use of this advantage until they fix it, which can be pretty crippling if it happens on its own every time you engage a mob. It's the rough equivalent of telling drivers that if you go over the speed limit in an area where there are no posted speed limit warnings you need to self-report yourself even if there's no cop around.

I always considered this rule rather cryptic since it isn't always clear how the player is supposed to KNOW that some gameplay mechanism is indeed "unintended." Sure, the case you quote is pretty obvious but I've definitely run into similar situations, not as extreme, where it becomes a tough issue to determine whether mob behavior is "as intended" or "exploitable." This is particularly true about pathing. And it continues to this day. In the last two expansions there have been zones where the mob pathing is really poor. For example, there's one progression mission in Degmar, the Lost Castle where the mobs in one room are "supposed" to be leashed to the room. This is to make it impossible to pull them to another room. Now the idea that they're leashed is inferred from their general behavior since nothing in the in-game lore informs players of this fact. Well, accidentally it was discovered that if you pull the target mobs right to the doorway of the room and then clear agro somehow, oftentimes one mob will stay there, just OUTSIDE the room. That mob can then be tagged again and it WILL continue into the next room where it can be engaged as a single. Otherwise your group MUST fight the mobs in a set of at least 4 inside the main room. There's a world of difference in the challenge of handling 4 tough mobs at once versus engaging one at a time. Is this an exploitable bug or "working as intended" ? Who knows...



Edited, Feb 12th 2016 8:25am by Sippin
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#37 Feb 12 2016 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sippin wrote:
It's the rough equivalent of telling drivers that if you go over the speed limit in an area where there are no posted speed limit warnings you need to self-report yourself even if there's no cop around.


I got just such a ticket!

Coming home from the Black and Blue concert (Black Sabbath and Blue Oyster Cult, LOL) in 1980, it's about 1 am, and there's nobody on the road. I'm in Chicago, and headed back out to the suburbs. There's no posted speed limit, and it looks similar to a road near my house with a 40 mph speed limit, so I'm doing 40. Get pulled over, that cop's telling me all unposted streets in Chicago are 30, and I should know this. How should I know, I don't live here! He gave me a ticket (teenagers coming home from a concert, no slack there).

My revenge? My godfather (not making this up :) is a Cook County Sherriff's deputy. He took care of it, so ha-ha :)

Tat
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#38 Feb 12 2016 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Sippin wrote:
I always considered this rule rather cryptic since it isn't always clear how the player is supposed to KNOW that some gameplay mechanism is indeed "unintended." Sure, the case you quote is pretty obvious but I've definitely run into similar situations, not as extreme, where it becomes a tough issue to determine whether mob behavior is "as intended" or "exploitable." This is particularly true about pathing. And it continues to this day.


Back in Luclin, there's a taskmaster guy in Echo Caverns. He is both undead *and* a shissar (and lower level than the shissar in Ssra), which meant he was a much easier way to get the scales needed for the enduring breath necklace. Here's the deal though. He was kinda tough to solo straight up, even as a paladin, but he could be feared. Normally, this would be a problem, but if you'd already cleared the area (and you had to pull and clear the skeleton guards in his room), he would always path out of the room he was in, and straight down the main hall, and then basically just faceplant into the zone exit and stay there. It's not like I would fear him and force him into this spot, he would walk there on his own, whilst I was beating on his backside. That this resulted in me standing just a step from the zone out, with him stuck in said zoneout, beating on him, wasn't my fault, but that it took me that long to wear his hps down.

I always wondered if this was technically an exploit, but on the other hand, there was literally no way for me to get him to go anywhere else, even if I wanted to. What was I supposed to do? Not attack him? Let him come out of fear and run back up the hallway towards me and repeat (how is that any different except for arbitrarily taking more time)? Decide to fight him face to face (doable for me, but maybe not so much for a necro doing the same thing)? I didn't worry about it too much because it's not like he was a great exp mob. I just killed him enough times to get the scales I needed and moved on. But yeah, that's one of those things that's kind of border line. No clue if they ever fixed it either.

Edited, Feb 12th 2016 2:32pm by gbaji
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#39 Feb 12 2016 at 7:38 PM Rating: Good
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Not to derail but that reminds of the rare times when I'm pursuing a running mob and it runs "into" the zone-out but, of course, doesn't zone. Now if I follow the mob to continue to engage it, I will zone. This is an unexploitable bug since it saves the mob's ****. Can't remember where I last saw this, and it hasn't happened in a long time, but I have encountered it.

=========================================================
Seriously? **** for the word "but" with an extra T at the end? Seriously? LOL

Edited, Feb 12th 2016 8:41pm by Sippin
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Sippin 105 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 105 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ 100 SHD BER RNG PAL SHM Master Alchemist *** 85 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#40 Feb 16 2016 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. That was kinda what happened with the taskmaster snake guy. But he would get stuck just close enough that you could still hit him without quite hitting the zone yourself. First few times this happened, I was trying desperately to kill him before he got to the zone, failed, and zoned out myself chasing him. A few times I tried waiting until fear dropped and repeating, but that got real old real quick. Then, eventually, I realized that I could stay just far enough to not zone, and still hit him. Technically an exploit? Maybe. But honestly no more than fearing the mob and beating on its backside in the first place. If it *didn't* path into the zoneline, I could kill it eventually anyway. Just with more running around involved. Once you cleared the skeletons in his room, there was nothing else in the zone that was KOS IIRC (this was the small section of EC leading to the deep, so not much there). So yeah, I didn't worry about this too much.

Deliberately trapping a mob in geometry? Totally different story.
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