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Twisting songs for a bardFollow

#1 Mar 27 2004 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
I am starting a Vah Shir bard and I've read a lot about twisting the songs. How do I do that and how do I set up my hotkeys to twist the songs? Also, what are the song commands or where can I look them up? Thanks so much!
#2 Mar 27 2004 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
There's a few resident bards on the boards here but with it being the weekend I'm not sure how much they're actually going to check the boards.

Your best bet on playing a bard would be to visit http://www.eqdiva.com/ for just about anything/everything concerning bardom.
#3 Mar 27 2004 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Madahme the Charming wrote:
There's a few resident bards on the boards here but with it being the weekend I'm not sure how much they're actually going to check the boards.

Your best bet on playing a bard would be to visit http://www.eqdiva.com/ for just about anything/everything concerning bardom.


best info for bards is at EQDIVA, go there, and go there often.

as for making a song macro stick with this to cut your clicking in half.

/stopsong
/cast #

make 8 of those and you are done with song macros. you will still need an assist and pet kill hotkey, but other then that you are set.
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#4 Mar 27 2004 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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That's pretty much it. When I play my bard (which is only level 12) I don't use a macro, just hotkey the spells directly, but I'm a *********. Remember that you should be able to reliably twist 3 songs continuously, and can pulse in a 4th or even 5th effect for short times. Your connection and any lag will have a major effect on songs.
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#5 Mar 27 2004 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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with double click you will never be able to sustain 4 song twist. with the above macro i listed you can single tap your way to a 4 song twist and maintain it baring missed notes and interupts.

sub 20s, double tapping is ok, but post that you will really want to use the above macro.

as for a 5th or more song, that is only via the use of songs longer then 18secs. example is your 49th selo. it is a 2.5min song, an other is amplify. that is a 30sec song IIRC, so with those 2, and 4 others you could hit 6 songs, and there are a few other songs that last longer then 18sec.

so claiming you can maintain 5+ twist does not really count. if you can maintain a 4 song twist you are skilled at twisting. then the trick is to know what 4 songs to maintain :P
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#6 Mar 27 2004 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Yah, most bards i know don't have a twisting macro.
But if you were gonna make one it would look like this

/cast 1
/stopsong
/cast2
/stopsong
/cast 3

But everytime you fizzle it messes up your rotation. That's why i don't know any Bards that use a Twisting macro.
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#7 Mar 28 2004 at 12:46 AM Rating: Decent
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yes, not a true twist, just single cast macro like the one i listed.

only exception would be for taining or downtime.

ie, you are a young bard and just got your first mana song and want to twist it with your heal song.

plopp up your macro twist. but be aware that if you get a missed note, you CAN NOT restart or stop the macro to make up for it. you are just fubar.

nothing major in that situation, but if doing that during a fight, with important songs, that would be a bad thing.
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#8 Mar 28 2004 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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with double click you will never be able to sustain 4 song twist
I do it on a 56k connection Smiley: tongue Usually three chants and Veeshan when kiting casters. Melee is a little harder since I'm spending more time moving around and positioning.
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#9 Mar 28 2004 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't (intend to) say that I was maintaining 4 or 5 songs, but getting 4-5 effects at a time, temporarily. Since I haven't even made it to the teens on my bard, I'm probably going about it "wrong", anyways.
#10 Mar 28 2004 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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that would be impressive. my double tap skills alowed for 3 with ease, but could not sustain a 4th.... sustain meaning unless i had a missed note, or was hit and interupted those 4 songs would stay up and running.

FYI, unless you are laggy between you and the server even a 33.6k modem can twist 3 or 4 songs.
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#11 Mar 28 2004 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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I double tap. I don't see anything wrong with doing it either way. It's kind of like the difference between driving a manual and an automatic. One is a little easier to handle, but you feel you have more control with the other. I prefer the control personally. Also, I tend to keep 4 songs up more often then not. There's so many contributing factors though, lag being a big one. And since so many things can cause lag, your 4-twist (or even 3-twist) can get messed up pretty easy. If you want to be successful at 4-twist though, my recommendation is to learn not to depend on the casting bar. Use it early on to learn your timing, but by the time you're in your 40's you shouldn't need it as much. That way you can twist even when blinded. It's also good to learn to twist based on timing instead of the casting bar because procs can cause your bar to "poof". It doesn't change the timing of the cast or even interrupt it, but procing in the middle of a cast will cause your bar to disappear, making it look like you fizzled, when in fact you didn't. Things will change quite a bit though post-50. As with all other classes that cast, you will fizzle much more often for some reason, even on low level spells (at least it seems this way to me, and pretty much everybody I've talked to about it. Maybe it's pshycological...).

Basically, it doesn't really matter if you twist 3 or 4 or if you use a macro or not. 3 doesn't make you a worse bard. The bard is a very involved class. Song selection and instrument/weapon selection can make a HUGE difference, and just knowing the nuances of the class will get you a lot of respect and a lot of enjoyment.
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#12 Sep 19 2004 at 12:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Good information here and I'll add to the twisting macro. With my bard, the only time I use a twisting macro is when I'm kiting with my dot (damage over time) songs because it doesn't matter all that much if I miss a note and have to wait 2.7 seconds for the next chant to start. There is one correction I will add to the above macro. You have to add a pause for the casting time of each song, so the macro would look like this...

/stop song
/cast 1
/pause 27
/stop song
/cast 2

I make 2 of these hotkeys for my 4 dot chants. However, when I am in a group, I prefer the single macro so I have more control over each song and can adjust for group needs/missed notes.
#13 Sep 19 2004 at 1:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Jiggidyjay wrote:
If you want to be successful at 4-twist though, my recommendation is to learn not to depend on the casting bar. Use it early on to learn your timing, but by the time you're in your 40's you shouldn't need it as much. That way you can twist even when blinded. It's also good to learn to twist based on timing instead of the casting bar because procs can cause your bar to "poof". It doesn't change the timing of the cast or even interrupt it, but procing in the middle of a cast will cause your bar to disappear, making it look like you fizzled, when in fact you didn't.


extreemly well put. that is so true. its something i picked up from EQDiva.com on the timming and not to rely on the spell bar. after a while you just feel when it is time to start your next song.
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#14 Sep 19 2004 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Well played bards are a wonder. I know I could not do it.

Won't talk about the fifty something bard I was in a group with that was unable to twist songs at all, never more that one effect/song at a time, and long stretches of just nothing.
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#15 Sep 19 2004 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm I guess someone was 2 boxing a bard (that CANT work can it?) or had GF on lap problems.
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#16 Sep 19 2004 at 9:09 PM Rating: Decent
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i have 2boxed my bard with both a wiz and a cleric, but i had very simple rolls for the wiz/cleric when i did that.

i had macros like the following for the two alts:

/sit off
/cast #
/pause X (what ever amount of spell + 0.5)
/sit on

later i started adding 2-10 seconds extra to the pause depending on what the spell was so my alts did not draw agro as at the time, and probably still now bards really can not pull agro off a cleric or nuker.

i would at the beging of a fight just alt+tab over to my alt toon, hit the assist key i made, then back to my bard until it was time for the alt to do something. with EQW and my system i could swap back and forth just as fast as i could hit those 2 keys. so getting between the 2 toons i could even keep a 3 song twist up under those situations.

i did stop doing that once i started doing a lot of swarming though.
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#17 Sep 20 2004 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I tried working with hotkeyed songs and had problems maintianing the twists. I am able to consistently twist 4 songs by double clicking on a regular basis. I was once able to get 5 songs up but that was very brief, more like an overlap of the very first song twisted and the last one. I have no idea what I was doing wrong with the hotkeys but now am so accustomed to double clicking that I dont even think about it. My bard is now level 63.
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#18 Feb 03 2016 at 8:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all. I called my brother who reminded me how to do it. Simply put, it is:

/melody 1 2 3 4

with each number representing the spell gems of the song you would like to sing so yes u could type:

/melody 4 1 3 2

if that is the order in which you want it to start singing but once you sing one round, all four songs will be in your respective buff slot at all times until interrupted or stopped. If a song is interrupted (equivalent to a fizzle on spell casters) the following song will continue to play and everything else will continue as well. You can play more songs via the same hotkey if you are building skills or something but the songs will only last a specific amount of time and most would wear off before you began singing the same song on the next round. I hope this helps. For more information, you can contact me on Lockjaw server currently. Keebo, Tequilla, and Kokkoka are three of my toons you may be able to contact me on. Good luck and have fun and remember...It's only a game!!!
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#19 Feb 03 2016 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all


LOL, the people from 12 YEARS AGO were no help at all? In not explaining a mechanic that DID NOT EXIST at the time?

How rude of them!
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#20 Feb 03 2016 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Proof that nothing posted on the Internet ever goes away.
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#21 Feb 03 2016 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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#22 Feb 03 2016 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all.


Did we miss you asking for this info in a new general forum thread?


Second site on google when you search "eq twisting bard" is the old class forums here in which the second post (currently) tells you about /melody.

First site on that search was this thread, which as others have mentioned predates the command being added to the game.
#23 Feb 03 2016 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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snailish wrote:
keebosabi wrote:
I understand it has been quite a few years since the last post here but I was having problems remembering the hotkey format for twisting songs so I came here for answers and not meaning any offense to anyone here but y'all were no help at all.


Did we miss you asking for this info in a new general forum thread?


No, his last post before today was in 2011. Long on attitude, short on smarts :)
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#24 Feb 04 2016 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I miss Fansy. Wish he'd come back, especially now as DBG appears unwilling to enforce any training rules. Smiley: laugh

Anyone who doesn't know Fansy just read this hilarious bio:

Fansy the Famous Bard
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#25 Feb 04 2016 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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Sippin wrote:
I miss Fansy. Wish he'd come back, especially now as DBG appears unwilling to enforce any training rules. Smiley: laugh

Anyone who doesn't know Fansy just read this hilarious bio:

Fansy the Famous Bard


+1!!!
#26 Feb 04 2016 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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wow, spit my coffee out the first time I read that, years ago! Thanks for reminding me :)
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#27 Feb 04 2016 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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You know, to this day I'm still not sure how Fansy did the trick of training high level evil players in Oasis or Ro with sand giants. I can understand aggroing them all and outrunning them with bard speed but a low level bard has no way to clear agro. The zones in Ro and Oasis are pretty far from the usual camp spots. It would seem to me if Fansy zoned out, there's no guarantee the sand giants, on their return paths, would move close enough to the evil camps to agro on them. I see no evidence that Fansy ate a death at the evil's campsite, thereby passing the giants' hate onto them by proximity.

It's a great story but still not totally "solved" in my mind.

Edited, Feb 4th 2016 12:17pm by Sippin
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#28 Feb 04 2016 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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He did it from the grassy knoll ;)
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#29 Feb 04 2016 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Sippin wrote:
You know, to this day I'm still not sure how Fansy did the trick of training high level evil players in Oasis or Ro with sand giants. I can understand aggroing them all and outrunning them with bard speed but a low level bard has no way to clear agro. The zones in Ro and Oasis are pretty far from the usual camp spots. It would seem to me if Fansy zoned out, there's no guarantee the sand giants, on their return paths, would move close enough to the evil camps to agro on them. I see no evidence that Fansy ate a death at the evil's campsite, thereby passing the giants' hate onto them by proximity.

It's a great story but still not totally "solved" in my mind.


I vaguely recall some site or other back in the day where he drew out the routes he would run on a map to show how to do this (or someone else had based on his claims). IIRC, it wasn't about getting them to walk back through camps, so much as timing his zone out to have the SGs right in the midst of someone's camp. So, for example, you run them all the way to the southern edge of the zone, then zip across the zone along the west side to the north side, then angle a bit to the east and zone out. The SGs, being slower, would be right in the midst of the orc camps in the middle of the zone when you zone out the north side.

His routes were a bit more circular so as to make them come in at odd angles (and to get them around the lake), but I believe it was all about timing the zone to make it happen.

Spectres, of course, were much easier since they all started at the same spot and would path right through the beach area on their way back.
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#30 Feb 05 2016 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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Interesting and workable. Especially if he practiced it. Mobs, like most of us, are creatures of habit and they probably are predictable as to how/when they follow a target.
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#31 Feb 05 2016 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Sippin wrote:
Interesting and workable. Especially if he practiced it. Mobs, like most of us, are creatures of habit and they probably are predictable as to how/when they follow a target.


Oh yeah. Super predictable. Doubly so back in the day. EQ had some "odd" pathing rules. And you could often find spots where mobs would take what appeared to you to be a circuitous route to get to you. There used to be a "seam" in the mob pathing on the first floor of Unrest. Basically, there was a room (dining room I think?) with a hallway running along three sides, and three entrances from said hallway, each entering from a different direction (call them North, East, and South). If you were standing in the room just inside the South doorway and aggroed the mobs, they would run straight at you, but if you backed into the hallway, they would path out the North or East doorways (depending on which was closest), then around the hallways and hit you from the side. Of course, people not aware of this might tag something in the room and back into the hall to fight it, wonder what was taking so long, only to be hit by a massive train coming around the corner in the hallway, having aggroed everything along the way.

You could, in theory, use this to your advantage though. I once made a mob basically run back and forth for several minutes by simply stepping in and out of the room. He'd run towards me, I'd step back. He's run back towards one of the other exits. I'd step back in and he'd turn around. Ok. Not terribly useful unless you'd already cleared the room first, but still something you could play around with if you wanted (and probably far more useful for say a necro using dots than my paladin). What appeared at first to be random and strange, was in fact quite predictable. It had such things because the layout of the building was somewhat circular. There were multiple routes to take, so the devs decided to simplify pathing rules to make sure mobs didn't get stuck in a room, running back and forth constantly changing the route to get to wherever the target was, but never reaching it. So the mob always had one path to get from point A to point B, even if it wasn't always the most physically direct. That path could change if you moved, but never as a result of the mobs own movement (which was the point of the coding).

They've massively improved pathing point granularity in the game since then, so this doesn't tend to happen as often, but back in the day, this sort of odd "run off to the side first, then run towards you" behavior was pretty common, even in outdoor zones. And if you learned that pathing, you could totally take advantage of it and make mobs (or trains of mobs) move in what appeared to be odd and unpredictable directions. I never used this knowledge for evil, of course, but I could see how it easily could be. And for outdoor zones, a bard was certainly the class to use to do things like figure out mob pathing and timing. So it's not unlikely at all that this is how Fansy did what he did.
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