LVL 9 vs LVL 15 PAL SpellsFollow

I just made lvl 15 Pal. Bought all the spells for lvl 15.

A couple of questions.

Should I replace all my 9 with 15 lvl spells on my hot keys?

Healing is a given.

But what about LVL 9 Yap and Flash of Light, will those get stronger still or would it be better to replace all with lvl 15 spells?

Thanks

http://www.red3.com/TWC/Magic/LoadAtlvl15.htm
I agree with this.

as a a paladin i always have heal, stuns yaulp and root memmed. i also kept fol memmed until 30. I normally keep ac and hp buffs in one location and swap out the one i just cast for the next one that will drop.

Thanks for all the great answers and help.

Thought of another reading all this. Can I buy other Pal spells elsewhere or is headquarters the only place.? Sorry, being lazy and not wandering around checking places right now.

WARNING - quote contains bad advice:



1) Flash of light does NOT lower the attack rating of a mob for any noticeable amount. so you do not get hit for significantly less
2) Lowering the attack rating of a mob would NOT make it easier to hit a mob
3) Flash of light does not lower a mobs mitigation or avoidance

Flash of light is not a significant debuff of any mob stats (-5 to attack), it blinds the mob so that it can't find any players outside of it's melee range, and creates quite a bit of aggro. Nothing else.

The only use for flash of light is to create aggro, or maybe to escape a mob as a last resort when solo. Before cease and desist were implemented, FoL was the main low level aggro spell for Pallies. Now that cease/desist exist, FoL is a waste of time and also quite a dangerous spell to cast while grouped, especially in dungeons.

If for some reason everyone gets out of melee range while fighting, the mob will run off blindly, with a big risk of creating a nasty train. Because of this, it is inadvisable to use flash of light for aggro, especially when you have low mana stuns which have the added benefit of interrupting casters.

Flash of light = back of the spell book, never to be used again. It does NOT affect a mobs attack rating significantly, or mitigation and avoidance at all.

Edited, Mon Mar 15 10:20:11 2004 by Patrician

With regard to the basic question of replacing existing spells with higher levels when reached, the answer is generally yes for upgrades but there are good reasons for keeping some of the lower ones as well.

As pointed out, lower level spells take less mana and have less chance of fizzle - I often have 2 heal spells up at all times (highest one plus another lower one), sometimes you will be low on mana and not have quite enough to cast that higher heal.

Cure lines are also great ones to have up, even if at lower levels.

Yaulp is one that you will keep up, since it is self buf you can cast in the middle of combat without switching target to yourself. I kept using it until I got Yap II.

I was interested in FOL discussion, I used it initially but discarded it almost immediately since target had a nasty habit of grabbing adds with its pathing. I had not noticed any real impact after the blindness wore off. I had never thought to use it to escape.

My pally is at 46, but I still remember being happy when I got root and stun - hated chasing those runnimg mobs on my short legs LOL.


Edited, Mon Mar 15 12:20:05 2004 by rickea

First of all the stats of this spell from this website:

1: Blindness(-1)
2: Decrease ATK by 5


Spell Type: Detrimental Skill: Divination
Mana: 12 Target Type: Single
Casting Time: 1.50 Duration: 2 ticks
Recast Time: 3 Resist: Magic (0)
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Range to target: 200
AE Radius: 0 Interruptable: Yes
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Reflectable: Yes


Although -5 ATK isn't a huge decrease when the mob has say 750 ATK, every little bit helps. The Vengance line of effect is highly prized and grants +5 (for Vengance I), which basically does the same thing. Although +/- 5ATK won't make you a tanking powerhouse and is only very slightly noticable, at lower levels where the mob has a low ATK this can make more of a difference. I disagree with Patrician's comments.

Based on first hand experience as long as you stay close to the mob it will not go running away when using Flash of Light. As a level 52 pally I've never had a train develop in LDON or elsewhere because I used this spell. If you know what you're doing this is a very safe spell [I'm sure others will counter this arguement..but I don't care. I'll use it and continue to use it even while grouped]

The only problem you will see when using Flash of Light or Yaulp is when you're using a slow weapon (typically 2HS). Casting a spell in the middle of a combat sequence will reset your strike counter. Typically you don't want to do this with a weapon using a lengthy delay factor. With a fast weapon this should be no problem.

Um.... Wow.

Valzarius. I'm not sure if you quit the game for a couple years and haven't updated your strats, or are reading your info off of sites that have 2+ year old data. Sure. Back in the day, casting spells did reset your weapon swings. They changed that a long time ago (been so long I'd forgotten about it until you posted). I think this was fixed about the same time fram as when the other hybrid issues were adressed (ie: mana pool being half size, some spells haveing half effect, spells ******** with swings, hybrid exp penalty). *cough* those have been long dead issues for a long time...


FoL was also a useful spell back then. I remember posting about its hidden agro control virtues way back in the day. However, the day cease and desist came out (SoL release), the primary use for this spell pretty much vanished (heh. In a "flash").

Today. It's just too dangerous for the benefits you gain. Sure. I suppose you could use it to reduce that mobs atk by 5 points. But it only lasts 12 seconds. You're literally better off just saving your mana and using your heal instead. How much less damage do you think you'll take over 12 seconds by hitting that mob for a big -5 atk debuff? It's just not worth it for that.


Vengeance is worth it, and I'll tell you why. First off, it lasts longer then 12 seconds. Second, you get to cast it on all your melees. That -5 atk reduces the damage that *one* member of your party is taking by a very very tiny amount. +5 atk increases the damage each member of your group will do (also by a very tiny amount). However, over a long time, and applied to everyone in the group, that +5 will add up. Doing the reverse on a single mob, for 12 seconds at a time, while adding the risk of losing control of the mob just makes it a less then attractive spell.


I can think of just a very few uses for this spell:

1. Escape. Pre-22, it's good for that. Really, after that level, just mem root. It'll give you a much safer run to the zoneline then FoL ever will.

2. I suppose if you're soloing maybe. I still think that just healing will be more cost effective though. Honestly, I can think of much better spells to put in those slots instead.

3. Maybe. Maybe, if you're really looking for "bizaare" strats, you could use this on a raid against a perma-rooted mob. Since it's rooted, the blindness effect is irrelevant (it can't run). However, a mob that is blind has the nice effect of being *unable* to target any opponent at range. As long as someone's in melee, a blinded mob will always pick a target out of those in melee. I can't off the top of my head think of any encounter where you'd need this to prevent caster agro on a perma-rooted mob, but I'm willing to lock the idea up in the back of my head and pull it out in the rare chance that I do come into that exact situation...


That's it really. Use cease and desist for agro control in a group. Use FoL for escape until you get root (root changes your whole world as a pally. Trust me!). There's no other reason to use this spell anymore.

Hmmm... The thread you linked doesn't mention casting spells at all. It's just general theory about 1h vs 2h weapons (and is correct). There's a more complete and precise explanation of the issue on another thread somewhere IIRC.

I did not find any thread with the title "To yaulp or not to yaulp". I did a search on all forum areas for any thread with the word "yaulp" (not case sensitive) in the subject, and found not one that mentioned anything about spell delay reseting your weapon swing.

Again. Where on earth did you hear this? All you need to do to know this is wrong is to watch your autoattack button when you are fighting.

Each time you swing, your button will pop up (ungrey), and then almost immediately grey out again. If you cast a spell, the time it takes between swings is unaffected *unless* your spell delay takes long enough that your swing is delayed (can't swing while casting). When this happens it's *really* obvious. Your autoattack button will ungrey, and will stay ungreyed while your spell continues to cast. The instant your spell finishes, you will swing. It does not wait an additional delay time to swing.


Heck. Do this test. Target something at a distance (so you wont actually be in combat). Hit your autoattack. You'll get spamed with messages saying you are too far away. Ignore them. Just watch your button. It'll grey and ungrey as you attempt to swing (even though you wont hit anything). Now. Cast a spell that takes a long time (valor of marr for example, but could be anything). Watch your button. It'll ungrey about halfway through your casting, and will stay ungreyed until your spell is done (delay is done, it's just waiting to swing). The instant your spell goes off, your button will grey.


I'm relatively certain that this will happen even if you're out of range of the target (or can't see it, or whatever). If not, you can always just unequip your weapon (use your fists), and walk up to a greenie to test this one. Your weapon swings will be delayed if your spell cast overlaps your delay. This is one of the arguments for using a slower delay weapon. You can get an entire cast of most of your spells while the weapon is still waiting for the delay, allowing you to cast and not lose any DPS (I know that this is mentioned in one of the more detailed 1h vsd 2h threads, but not the one you linked). That's the only effect casting has on swinging.

Anyone who says that your delay counter is reset when you cast a spell is either lying, or horribly misinformed. It used to be that way a loooooong time ago (used to also happen if you were stunned and such as well). It is not the case now though. Your weapon swing is independant of anything else. Once it's ready to go, it will attack the first instant it can (ie: You're not casting, ducking, or stunned). There is no resetting.


Um... This also brings up a valuable tactic when you are self healing in combat. While not super applicable to lower levels, at my level, I'm often retargetting myself to cast a HoT while in combat (more effective then chain stunning in the long run). What I've gotten in the habit of doing is turning off autoattack, then hitting tab, then casting my HoT, then reversing the proceedure (retarget mob with tab, turn on autoattack). The reason for this is simple. Your autoattack will ungrey regardless of what else you are doing. However, if you have autoattack on, it will immediately "use up" a swing the instant you are done casting, even if you don't have a valid target at that moment. I found I was missing swings because by the time my spell was done, the button was ungreyed and I'd waste a swing hitting myself (getting the "It might be more productive...." line. By turning off autoattack, the button still ungreys, but wont swing until you hit the button again. This "saves" the swing until you retarget the mob, at which point the swing is immediate upon hitting the button (don't have to wait the delay again).


Just a good tactic for later on in life, and also illustrates how important it is to know how the game mechanics work.

I wasn't getting personal, I was just wondering where you got your info from. Your *** seemed reasonable.

Nice work on linking a thread where Romidar specifically contradicts you (on page 2)



All I really ask is that you don't post incorrect information, and bad advice to new players. I don't think that is too much to ask. Do you?

I agree how rude can you get

im not taking sides in this arguement because i know next to nothing about paladins

but if your group had a mob snared couldnt this work kind of like fear
so that it would turn its back on you and try to run slowly away giving you the chance to just hack it from behind that way you stay close so keep it from gathering other mobs plus moving slowly from the snare the effect would wear off before it got very far also keeping it from picking up others?

or is the effect time so short it wouldnt make a difference?

Unfortunately not. If a mob is blinded, it only runs aimlessly if there is nobody in melee range. As soon as you got in range to hack it from behind it would stop and attack you.

I guess it may work if you have nukers only, but this would still seem unecessary since snare is sufficient to hate kite.