i recently dinged 32 on my main a 32 WE druid and although i enjoy it immensely and plan to continue playing him i have decided i want to try a new character who would be a good puller
my question is what class in your opinions make the best puller up to the 30's or so (i know that at different levels different classes are better) eventually i will probably go higher with it i am still trying to get a feel for group roles and since i am only 30's right now i figure that if i get someone who can pull well up to there then it can help me decide what i prefer
please also note that because i do shift work (paper mill) that a character who is somewhat effective soloing as well as pulling would be nice but overall i want pulling ability
also with class could you give me advice on what race with that class would be best
thanks in advance
and apologies in advancefor mispellings and lack of punctuation and grammer
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best low level pullerFollow
First of all, let me list the "pulling" classes for you,
Bard/ranger/druid/Paladin/Cleric/Enchanter: They use Lull line of spells to reduce agro range of mob A, then pull Mob B. Ranger and Druid use Harmony to accomplish this; harmony is and out door only spell that does't work in dungeons. Paladins can lull mobs upto level 55. So after level 60 or so, Paladins are no longer a good puller (usually tanks don't pull at higher level anyway).
Monk/Shadow Knight/Necromancer: They use Faign Death to split mobs for pulls. While Monks used to be the best pulling class at high levels, FD split is not a good way to go in exp group, or in LDoN group where constant chain pull is desired.
As for solo ability, Bard is a better soloer. Chant (dot) kite, Charm kite, AE kite, Swarm kite, Fear kite. Bascially all listed classes can solo, just bards are better at it than others.
My suggestion would be a Bard if you are up for playing a pretty challanging class (I believe it is the hardest EQ class to master); a druid / ranger if you play outdoor at lot; a paladin if you play in dungeons a lot. However, only bard will be a good puller from level 9 (when they get lull song) to level 65.
Edited, Mon Mar 1 13:27:09 2004 by Assailant
Bard/ranger/druid/Paladin/Cleric/Enchanter: They use Lull line of spells to reduce agro range of mob A, then pull Mob B. Ranger and Druid use Harmony to accomplish this; harmony is and out door only spell that does't work in dungeons. Paladins can lull mobs upto level 55. So after level 60 or so, Paladins are no longer a good puller (usually tanks don't pull at higher level anyway).
Monk/Shadow Knight/Necromancer: They use Faign Death to split mobs for pulls. While Monks used to be the best pulling class at high levels, FD split is not a good way to go in exp group, or in LDoN group where constant chain pull is desired.
As for solo ability, Bard is a better soloer. Chant (dot) kite, Charm kite, AE kite, Swarm kite, Fear kite. Bascially all listed classes can solo, just bards are better at it than others.
My suggestion would be a Bard if you are up for playing a pretty challanging class (I believe it is the hardest EQ class to master); a druid / ranger if you play outdoor at lot; a paladin if you play in dungeons a lot. However, only bard will be a good puller from level 9 (when they get lull song) to level 65.
Edited, Mon Mar 1 13:27:09 2004 by Assailant
15 posts
Since you are looking to solo as well, I would recommend either a Paladin, (dwarf) or an Ogre Shadow Knight. For straight pulling a warrior should be best although monks, (feign death), rangers (track) have their advantages. Not sure about the new berserker class. Hope this helps.
Bring 56 Ranger, Ndaar 34 warrior, Lanamce 52 shaman
Bring 56 Ranger, Ndaar 34 warrior, Lanamce 52 shaman
Depends on where you plan to pull. Normal XP group warrior is just fine but for most raids having your main tank pull yields a nice spot on the ground in the general shape of the main tank...
Best puller 1-59(mob lvl 55 or below) Paladin
Best puller 59(mob above 55)-65 sk
simplified to give a straight answer, however as with all things the simple answer hides a multitude of variables that have to be taken into account.
In LDoN chanters , clerics and Bards are often as effective as Pallies if played correctly often they give great flexibility within the group and allow for quicker pulls and the ability to pull set numbers back. That said for pure 'pull 1 and tank' pally's are best.
In Non LDon sk's ability to FD pull and grab aggro with snares allow them to be puller MA in one this is the only reason i put them above monks who also are very good pullers, add chanters, clerics, bards and pallys<below 55 mobs> so it depends on what way you want to play.
chances are that at 30 the chars most likely to be asked to pull are Pally and monk.
Best puller 59(mob above 55)-65 sk
simplified to give a straight answer, however as with all things the simple answer hides a multitude of variables that have to be taken into account.
In LDoN chanters , clerics and Bards are often as effective as Pallies if played correctly often they give great flexibility within the group and allow for quicker pulls and the ability to pull set numbers back. That said for pure 'pull 1 and tank' pally's are best.
In Non LDon sk's ability to FD pull and grab aggro with snares allow them to be puller MA in one this is the only reason i put them above monks who also are very good pullers, add chanters, clerics, bards and pallys<below 55 mobs> so it depends on what way you want to play.
chances are that at 30 the chars most likely to be asked to pull are Pally and monk.
This may be a factor of plater skill more than it is an idication of which is the better class: I have seen Pally's pull adds when trying to pac an LDoN room - I have never seen the bard I play with do so.
I love bards...if i had my way I'd have a bard in my pocket at all times, he'd play mana battery songs for me until we were ready and I'd wind him up and send him out to pull. Low levels or high levels they simply are great pullers... if you're in open spaces with a well balanced group and a mezz class...get a monk or SK to FD pull <assuming the SK isnt the MT> monks excel in keeping up chains... mob hits 35% monk fd's and runs out for another.
When she isnt MH my druid has been known to pull in planes...but I'll admit she hates it with a passion.
When she isnt MH my druid has been known to pull in planes...but I'll admit she hates it with a passion.
An Enchanter with SoW...
Bards get Kelin's Lugubrious Lament at 8th level.
My bard still uses that same song to Lull at 56th level, and I'm routinely the puller when I group.
Every raid I've been on with my 65 Enchanter had a Bard pulling.
Purely anecdotal I know, but there you have it.
My bard still uses that same song to Lull at 56th level, and I'm routinely the puller when I group.
Every raid I've been on with my 65 Enchanter had a Bard pulling.
Purely anecdotal I know, but there you have it.
maybe my opinion and the opinion of my friends but i as a ranger pull very well and if i have to be MT it also helps with aggro. I go up to a mob and use the .5 second cast snare(FEAR TANGLING WEEDS)and then shoot arrows at it till it A. gets to me or B. snare breaks. Then i snare it with the regular snare and continue pounding the mob down : )
As a ranger, you can use Flame Lick to grab agro off the puller, if your group is chain pulling with puller pull, and tank tag on inc. A flame lick on inc and a flame lick few seconds later will get all the agro you need to tank for the rest of the flight.
My 57 ranger pulled a lot until around 48 when he moved into Karnor's Castle. From that point on (especially since LDoN came out) he's only pulled once (we were messin around in Gunthak). You just start to run in to many more dungeons. My 53 necro... I hate pulling with her. Yes, FD is great, but for a necro that has to stop and cast... a failed FD can easily mean instant death. My bard... lvl 38 atm. He is a pulling machine. Out of the last 20 or so LDoN's, he's accidentally multi-pulled MAYBE 3 times, and he's been puller on all but 2 of them. Those bad pulls were due to lull resists that caused aggro, meaning I pulled like 7 mobs out of the room. Just stand there and die when that happens. Quicker to run back as a bard then let the group die and have everybody run back. That being said, bard can be simple, if you want to be a mediocre one. Being a good bard is extremely difficult though. Everybody wants "their" song in the twist, and I can only twist 4 at a time, throwing in a different song every other twist or so. I do that while I switch out instruments and weapons on the fly, bringing back the pull and standing still to get beat on while the tank taunts (at least until fading memories). You'll constantly be bugged for mana song, even when you're playing it (it's got a small radius, and casters tend to just plunk down anywhere).
In short, my opinion is that it's situational, but the bard has more utility (it is a utility class after all) and flexibility, but it depends on the person behind the monitor more then the gear/pp. Just my 2cp...
In short, my opinion is that it's situational, but the bard has more utility (it is a utility class after all) and flexibility, but it depends on the person behind the monitor more then the gear/pp. Just my 2cp...
A puller will need to do diffrent things for diffrent situations.
For groups in places like DL or any other outside zone where chain pulling is common you need to be able to dump agro in enough time to get the next mob. Ever since warriors learned how to curse dropping agro to any plate class tank is relativly easy. Thus all most any class can pull in this situation.
Pulling in LDoN adv and other dungens is a bit more involved. The current trend is to bring only one or two mobs to the group at a time. This is why the classes that can lull have been the most popular pullers in LDoN. In fact I know some folks that will not do a NR adv with out a bard.
A recent trend on my server has been to have warriors pull and call for paci when more than two mobs are expected. This is most popular in EF and EC adv where there are fewer rooms filled with mobs. This way the tank has the agro instead of the chanter or cleric.
I personally believe that monks are making a come back as pullers. This is do to their new lulling ability. Ture they can only lull one at a time. However more often than not that is all that is needed. Furthermore the monk's lull is illresitable. I have pulled a couple of EF adv with my monk with very good results.
My warrior has also been working with a lvl 65 monk pulling in NR adv. We did one with no bard and no chanter.
As it stands now, monk are the only class with both the ability to lull and the ability to FD.
For 90% of the pulls in a LDoN you only need to lull one mob to end up pulling 1 or 2 to the group. And a monk can do this better than any other class. Furthermore monks have the best FD in the game and can abort the pull fast and easy. Also monk generate very little agro on the pull so the MA gaining agro is seldom a problem. Finally the dps the monk brings to a groups is a nice bonus.
Soloing
It is true that monks have been nerfed a bit. However they still solo very well. The key is to get them a haste item, and some decent dps weapons. If you stay mostly in the old worlds it is easy to solo a monk to lvl 50.
For groups in places like DL or any other outside zone where chain pulling is common you need to be able to dump agro in enough time to get the next mob. Ever since warriors learned how to curse dropping agro to any plate class tank is relativly easy. Thus all most any class can pull in this situation.
Pulling in LDoN adv and other dungens is a bit more involved. The current trend is to bring only one or two mobs to the group at a time. This is why the classes that can lull have been the most popular pullers in LDoN. In fact I know some folks that will not do a NR adv with out a bard.
A recent trend on my server has been to have warriors pull and call for paci when more than two mobs are expected. This is most popular in EF and EC adv where there are fewer rooms filled with mobs. This way the tank has the agro instead of the chanter or cleric.
I personally believe that monks are making a come back as pullers. This is do to their new lulling ability. Ture they can only lull one at a time. However more often than not that is all that is needed. Furthermore the monk's lull is illresitable. I have pulled a couple of EF adv with my monk with very good results.
My warrior has also been working with a lvl 65 monk pulling in NR adv. We did one with no bard and no chanter.
As it stands now, monk are the only class with both the ability to lull and the ability to FD.
For 90% of the pulls in a LDoN you only need to lull one mob to end up pulling 1 or 2 to the group. And a monk can do this better than any other class. Furthermore monks have the best FD in the game and can abort the pull fast and easy. Also monk generate very little agro on the pull so the MA gaining agro is seldom a problem. Finally the dps the monk brings to a groups is a nice bonus.
Soloing
It is true that monks have been nerfed a bit. However they still solo very well. The key is to get them a haste item, and some decent dps weapons. If you stay mostly in the old worlds it is easy to solo a monk to lvl 50.
Out doors at this level the Ranger is king.
A Ranger has Harmony, (excellent for breaking camps), SoW, Snare, Root and the best Tracking and Archery.
Once learned, the combination of these allow you to locate, split and pull better than any other class. The only problem is that as soon as you go indoors half your techniques cease to work properly.
This advantage outdoors continues well into your 40's, things change when harmony stops working though. Summoning mobs can be a pain, but not impossible to deal with, most of the time you can get away from them with SoW, as long as you do not get stunned to much.
Indoors I would say that the Necro is best, FD, pet techniques and mez make for a pretty good ******** with undead mobs they are even more powerful.
(A good monk is still one of the best options, the problem is that good monks seem to be very few and far between.)
A few people above mention pulling in LDoN. LDoN's are a unique situation, they are nothing like outdoors and bear little resemblance to normal dungeon pulling.
People growing up on LDoN's only will find the going very tough when they try using those tactics in Chardok or Dragon Necropolis or somewhere similar.
But if you were never going to do anything else but LDoN's then I would agree that a Paladin is a good choice.
PS...
Assailant is correct about the Bard of course, I was trying to present an alternative.
The two best allround for all circumstances, Bard and Necromancer, I think in practice these two are pretty much equal, but play style is about as different as you could get.
Edited, Mon Mar 1 22:49:53 2004 by Iluien
A Ranger has Harmony, (excellent for breaking camps), SoW, Snare, Root and the best Tracking and Archery.
Once learned, the combination of these allow you to locate, split and pull better than any other class. The only problem is that as soon as you go indoors half your techniques cease to work properly.
This advantage outdoors continues well into your 40's, things change when harmony stops working though. Summoning mobs can be a pain, but not impossible to deal with, most of the time you can get away from them with SoW, as long as you do not get stunned to much.
Indoors I would say that the Necro is best, FD, pet techniques and mez make for a pretty good ******** with undead mobs they are even more powerful.
(A good monk is still one of the best options, the problem is that good monks seem to be very few and far between.)
A few people above mention pulling in LDoN. LDoN's are a unique situation, they are nothing like outdoors and bear little resemblance to normal dungeon pulling.
People growing up on LDoN's only will find the going very tough when they try using those tactics in Chardok or Dragon Necropolis or somewhere similar.
But if you were never going to do anything else but LDoN's then I would agree that a Paladin is a good choice.
PS...
Assailant is correct about the Bard of course, I was trying to present an alternative.
The two best allround for all circumstances, Bard and Necromancer, I think in practice these two are pretty much equal, but play style is about as different as you could get.
Edited, Mon Mar 1 22:49:53 2004 by Iluien
didn't read the whole thread but the word monk comes to mind when thinking about best pullers.
Paladins make great pullers and can solo very well at lower levels. Once you've Dinged 40+ pulling is best done in a "wingman" fashion. What I mean by this team is 2 people actually function in the role of puller/tank, where you both watch out for each other and constantly communicate. A paladin/warrior or paladin/ranger makes an awesome "wingman" combination (paladin/beastlord is also pretty good too). As stated above the paladin has a large assortment of Lull spells up to 55, and also has a good variety of stun spells in order to control aggro. If using archery to pull (instead of spells), I normally have the warrior or ranger do the actual shooting since paladins are skill capped in archery at 75. It then becomes a simple matter of rooting adds and controling aggro.
The paladin makes a good character to solo with in the lower levels because of the Lull/archery combination. You can easily break camps and heal yourself when the need arises. Paladins can wear full plate armor and can cure poision & disease (also useful when soloing). When using archery to pull look for bows and arrows that give you range over damage (with a level 75 cap you never are going to get any real damage out of archery). Other classes can put out much more DPS at higher levels, but a paladin can easily function both as a soloing character and within a group.
The paladin makes a good character to solo with in the lower levels because of the Lull/archery combination. You can easily break camps and heal yourself when the need arises. Paladins can wear full plate armor and can cure poision & disease (also useful when soloing). When using archery to pull look for bows and arrows that give you range over damage (with a level 75 cap you never are going to get any real damage out of archery). Other classes can put out much more DPS at higher levels, but a paladin can easily function both as a soloing character and within a group.
Two of the best classes I have seen pulling are bards and enchanters, specially for LDoN or any chain pulling zones. Chanters can pacify for single pull and mez any adds as well as slow the mobs before they arrive at the group. Same goes for Bards. Bards can take a bit more punishment than chanters so they can survive the pull aggro a bit better but high level chanters have Arcane Rune, agent free self rune. Basically, you pull single with slow, bring to the tank, let tank gain aggro, battle/med, when the mob is about 1/4 health go pull another one with slow. If the first mob is not dead yet, just mez the second mob and park it. Rince and repeat. In a high DPS group, you can go through these mobs very quickly.
Taushar
Edited, Tue Mar 2 23:43:47 2004 by Taushar
Taushar
Edited, Tue Mar 2 23:43:47 2004 by Taushar
i havent seen many situations at all where a bard couldnt pull.
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