Hey all,
Anyone can explain to me how to read the stacking information provided with lucy on spells etc?
I see the different slots but I cant make heads or tails of the info.
Lucy doesnt appear to have any FAQ so I would appreciate it if someone to post some useful info.
Thanks
Fortunbas
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I too have been searching for such documentation. Most of the raw data I can make sense, given what spells I know, and what effects they have. But there are several fields which I cannot seem to make sense of. Specifically, the "calcN" fields for each virtual slot.
I'd be happy to create a document for something like this, but I don't really have all the information I need. Could someone in the know post it, or reply, so others might partake in this knowledge?
I'd be happy to create a document for something like this, but I don't really have all the information I need. Could someone in the know post it, or reply, so others might partake in this knowledge?
GRR this post is exactly what my question is too... i see no one responding who knows <sigh>
others will do better I'm sure. Lucy is a bit challenging becuase its reading and reporting on the actuall game code. These are the data structures actually used by the games programmers. (Yes yes if it distresses you to know that your uber monk is actually a bunch of data stop reading now.. I lied, i'm sorry, its all right... shhhh).
The stacking stuff does not have to "mean" anything. The way to read it is that as you check two spells with related ability (eg buffs, haste) they will stack if the stack slots are different, and they will not stack if the stack slots are the same.
Hope that starts to unpack it.
The stacking stuff does not have to "mean" anything. The way to read it is that as you check two spells with related ability (eg buffs, haste) they will stack if the stack slots are different, and they will not stack if the stack slots are the same.
Hope that starts to unpack it.
Quote:
I lied, i'm sorry, its all right... shhhh
Whew I was worried there for a bit. Code, who would've figured that. And in a game no less!
is it possible for two buffs/spells to show up in your spell window and NOT stack? I noticed for example form of endurance III and form of defense III, one will replace the other whilst in general, a lower level buff will not take hold if a higher level buff is in place already.
The issue I have is with the spell focus potions like Tonic of resonant fire XIII and tonic of resonant magic XIII, they also replace each other, however something like Spirit of Valdeholm will quite happily sit in the buff window, BUT, its affects are negated - are not applied. I think this might be because of the proc based affect of both potions and THIS makes sense, however, I'd like to read it in Lucy form rather than find it out by trial and error with similar items in the future.
Any help would be most grateful.
Rgd
Fortunbas
The issue I have is with the spell focus potions like Tonic of resonant fire XIII and tonic of resonant magic XIII, they also replace each other, however something like Spirit of Valdeholm will quite happily sit in the buff window, BUT, its affects are negated - are not applied. I think this might be because of the proc based affect of both potions and THIS makes sense, however, I'd like to read it in Lucy form rather than find it out by trial and error with similar items in the future.
Any help would be most grateful.
Rgd
Fortunbas
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Spell_Data
Basically, if a Slot Number contains the same ID number, then they won't stick, and of course, if it doesn't stick, then it doesn't stack. Next, you need to know whether the effect is cumulative or not. Which focus effects aren't, so they won't stack either, even if multiple buffs stick, and you'll only get the best of sticking foci.
You can use the Lucy link on sticking (called stacking on the web page), to see if there are issues with other buffs that will block / overwrite them. Since foci are not cumulative, this will not cover all stacking issues, but the link does work for cumulative effects, as sticking is the only concern for stacking on such effects (effects with stacking limits being another exception).
==== EDIT ====
FoE / FoD and any Form of really, has a Slot 6: Screech which is the attribute to keep them from sticking with each other, so you only get the newest one (or highest, if the same line, i.e. FoD I, FoD II, etc.). If any slot has the same ID for both effect, they will not stick. Slot6: Screech in this case.
Attack Speed (Haste / Slow), Run Speed, and Focus Effects are NOT Cumulative, so even if you get multiple buffs to stick, only the best effect will be present. The caveat here, is that Haste, has multiple types (ID Numbers), as follows:
Increase Attack Speed is type I, Increase Haste v2 is type II, both of which are normal haste and stack upto their limit with worn of 100%, and Increase Haste v3 which is an overhaste type and limits at 125% iirc.
Anyway, you can have multiple Increase Attack Speeds in different spell slots, so they will stick, but since Haste is NOT cumulative, they won't stack, and you only get the best of sticking effects. As an example, take Miraculous Visions, Celerity, and Hastening of Ellowind, as listed here:
Miraculous Visions
3: Increase Attack Speed by 30%
Celerity
1: Increase Attack Speed by 47% (L39) to 50% (L44)
Hastening of Ellowind
2: Increase AGI by 72
3: Increase DEX by 60
4: Increase ATK by 64
5: Increase Attack Speed by 68%
6: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 24% with All Skills
8: Critical Damage Mob (1)
All 3 have Increase Attack Speed but each in a different spell slot, 3, 1, and 5, respectively. If Haste was cumulative, they'd all stack, but since it's not, they do not. So the only haste effect, in effect, is the Hastening of Ellowind, since it is the best / highest at 68%.
This same process is what happens with foci. Although you can have multiple foci of the same type, they will not stack, since they are not cumulative. However due to the spell foci, have multiple limits, you may get effects from the same type of sticking foci for different spells, but again they won'tstack, you'll only get the best, most appropriate one. Hypothetically, let's say, you have two Increase Spell Damage effects, one in slot 1 and one in slot 3, as follows:
1: Increase Spell Damage by 50%
2: Limit: Resist (Magic Allowed)
3: Limit: Max Level 70 lose 10% over cap
3: Increase Spell Damage by 30%
4: Limit: Max Level 80 lose 5% over cap
Let's say you cast several spells all 1K damage, the first a level 70 magic spell, the next a level 80 magic spell, and the third a level 70 fire spell. With these we get the following effects:
70 Mag = 50% from Slot 1, for total of 1.5K
80 Mag = 0% (10levels * -10% = -100% of 50% = 0) for Slot 1, 30% for Slot 3, for a total of 1.3K
70 Fir = 0% from Slot 1 (Fire not Magic), 30% from Slot 3, for a total of 1.3K
Thus, you can get the benefits of both buffs, depending on the spell and level used as the best can vary due to the limitations on the foci.
Yther Ore.
Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 2:32pm by Yther
Basically, if a Slot Number contains the same ID number, then they won't stick, and of course, if it doesn't stick, then it doesn't stack. Next, you need to know whether the effect is cumulative or not. Which focus effects aren't, so they won't stack either, even if multiple buffs stick, and you'll only get the best of sticking foci.
You can use the Lucy link on sticking (called stacking on the web page), to see if there are issues with other buffs that will block / overwrite them. Since foci are not cumulative, this will not cover all stacking issues, but the link does work for cumulative effects, as sticking is the only concern for stacking on such effects (effects with stacking limits being another exception).
==== EDIT ====
FoE / FoD and any Form of really, has a Slot 6: Screech which is the attribute to keep them from sticking with each other, so you only get the newest one (or highest, if the same line, i.e. FoD I, FoD II, etc.). If any slot has the same ID for both effect, they will not stick. Slot6: Screech in this case.
Attack Speed (Haste / Slow), Run Speed, and Focus Effects are NOT Cumulative, so even if you get multiple buffs to stick, only the best effect will be present. The caveat here, is that Haste, has multiple types (ID Numbers), as follows:
Increase Attack Speed is type I, Increase Haste v2 is type II, both of which are normal haste and stack upto their limit with worn of 100%, and Increase Haste v3 which is an overhaste type and limits at 125% iirc.
Anyway, you can have multiple Increase Attack Speeds in different spell slots, so they will stick, but since Haste is NOT cumulative, they won't stack, and you only get the best of sticking effects. As an example, take Miraculous Visions, Celerity, and Hastening of Ellowind, as listed here:
Miraculous Visions
3: Increase Attack Speed by 30%
Celerity
1: Increase Attack Speed by 47% (L39) to 50% (L44)
Hastening of Ellowind
2: Increase AGI by 72
3: Increase DEX by 60
4: Increase ATK by 64
5: Increase Attack Speed by 68%
6: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 24% with All Skills
8: Critical Damage Mob (1)
All 3 have Increase Attack Speed but each in a different spell slot, 3, 1, and 5, respectively. If Haste was cumulative, they'd all stack, but since it's not, they do not. So the only haste effect, in effect, is the Hastening of Ellowind, since it is the best / highest at 68%.
This same process is what happens with foci. Although you can have multiple foci of the same type, they will not stack, since they are not cumulative. However due to the spell foci, have multiple limits, you may get effects from the same type of sticking foci for different spells, but again they won'tstack, you'll only get the best, most appropriate one. Hypothetically, let's say, you have two Increase Spell Damage effects, one in slot 1 and one in slot 3, as follows:
1: Increase Spell Damage by 50%
2: Limit: Resist (Magic Allowed)
3: Limit: Max Level 70 lose 10% over cap
3: Increase Spell Damage by 30%
4: Limit: Max Level 80 lose 5% over cap
Let's say you cast several spells all 1K damage, the first a level 70 magic spell, the next a level 80 magic spell, and the third a level 70 fire spell. With these we get the following effects:
70 Mag = 50% from Slot 1, for total of 1.5K
80 Mag = 0% (10levels * -10% = -100% of 50% = 0) for Slot 1, 30% for Slot 3, for a total of 1.3K
70 Fir = 0% from Slot 1 (Fire not Magic), 30% from Slot 3, for a total of 1.3K
Thus, you can get the benefits of both buffs, depending on the spell and level used as the best can vary due to the limitations on the foci.
Yther Ore.
Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 2:32pm by Yther
Never mind. Yther already explained it far more clearly than I could have.
Edited, Mar 4th 2010 8:18am by amastropolo
Edited, Mar 4th 2010 8:18am by amastropolo
Awesome thx Yther! Much appreciated ! thanks for taking the time to write it up :)
Edited, Mar 22nd 2010 6:47pm by Fortunbas
Edited, Mar 22nd 2010 6:47pm by Fortunbas
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