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- Frustraded Pally puller in North Ro LDONS
Frustraded Pally puller in North Ro LDONSFollow
My level 55 pally is having a harder and harder time in here as the main puller.. Over the past few LDONS:
1) I am getting more resists to my pacify spell (even with a chrisma buff).
2) The aggro radius sure seems larger in the North Ro LDONS than Mistmore. So often I open the door (btw.. I HATE doors)!!.. see 1 dude.. pacify it.. step into room to see what else is there and BAM I get jumped by 2-3 others.. I tried using the F9 key to change the camera angle, but it did not seem to help much.
3) For some reason after I hit level 54 I started taking a lot more damage from the mobs in here.. My gear is average I would say.. usually have ~ 3800 HP and 1040 AC..
I still need 158 points in here to get my pally temperance spell that I want, Soooo I have to do 7-8 more in here ( assuming I win those)..
I did soo well in the 30's to low 50s and still do well in EC and MM.. Any tips to what I can do to be more effective.. I will take as an answer to let someone else do it if pallies simply start to lose their effectiveness around this time.. I will always offer the job to an bard or monk in the group, but we often do not have 1... :(
Thanks a most humble dwarf...
Basically, sad to have to say, you do have a bit of an equipment problem. The AC and HP you quote are around what a Ranger would have, you really do need to upgrade these a bit.
The group level range is quite important too, if you are 55 and everyone else is above 60 you will most certainly have problems as well.
To get you through the next few missions, maybe it would be best to form your own groups and make sure the average level is as low as you can get it. As you probably know Pacify does not work on mobs higher than 55, so you need all blue cons in your missions.
If you have higher level characters in your group it will be best to let the Cleric or Enchanter do the pacifying for you, they have Wake of Tranquility that works on mobs up to 60.
The group level range is quite important too, if you are 55 and everyone else is above 60 you will most certainly have problems as well.
To get you through the next few missions, maybe it would be best to form your own groups and make sure the average level is as low as you can get it. As you probably know Pacify does not work on mobs higher than 55, so you need all blue cons in your missions.
If you have higher level characters in your group it will be best to let the Cleric or Enchanter do the pacifying for you, they have Wake of Tranquility that works on mobs up to 60.
BTW that is the major reason I will not just zip up to level 60 with no AA's.. I plan to get CA, CS, ND 1-3 ( after getting run 1-3 and sta 1-3) along the way.. I do not want to ne known as a paper tank... This is my 1st toon and have no access to Uber gear.. It is hard for me to go on raids due to lack of time and being in a small guild..
IMHO i find Nro LDoN camps the most challanging of them all to pull singles.
its at a point now that i will not go into Nro LDoN without some type of CC, or enough tanks to deal with the ADDs you are going to get.
yup those HP/AC are a bit low for a knight class. my bard is not far behind that. something in the 2800hp 800-900ac range so you are a bit on the low side, but winning Nro hunts can change that rather fast.
best Plate gear for tanks in Nro LDoN short of elemental guilds.
its at a point now that i will not go into Nro LDoN without some type of CC, or enough tanks to deal with the ADDs you are going to get.
yup those HP/AC are a bit low for a knight class. my bard is not far behind that. something in the 2800hp 800-900ac range so you are a bit on the low side, but winning Nro hunts can change that rather fast.
best Plate gear for tanks in Nro LDoN short of elemental guilds.
Without knowing what armour you have, one suggestion you might consider is getting some of your guildies to go hunt in Cazic Thule with you and collect the material needed to make some Tae Ew plate. Someone in your guild may have the smithing skill to combine it for you, otherwise try hiring a smithy in PoK.
Well when I have virture my HP is ~ 4100 and AC 1100.. but I do not always have access to virture
Point 1: you Hit point / AC Are NOT low for your level, he is 55 not freakin 65 guy's. at 59 with best gear you can reasonalbly buy in bazaar i have 4300 hitpoints 1200 AC with Temp.
Point 2: Nro LDoN is very hard to single pull, there are 3 ways to get around it that i have found
1. have a bard in the group, they are i find better at dealing with multiple adds although chanters are no slouches either.
2. have a wizard make that cool eye to send in and /assist pacify those near the door
3. use a friendly rogue to hide/sneak inside the door so you can /assit pacify
You probably find that the reason it has got harder is because you have gone up a grade in LDoN if your 1 level higher as a group it can effect the mobs hugely. I am not sure what the exact points are but someone on this forum did work them out.
Point 2: Nro LDoN is very hard to single pull, there are 3 ways to get around it that i have found
1. have a bard in the group, they are i find better at dealing with multiple adds although chanters are no slouches either.
2. have a wizard make that cool eye to send in and /assist pacify those near the door
3. use a friendly rogue to hide/sneak inside the door so you can /assit pacify
You probably find that the reason it has got harder is because you have gone up a grade in LDoN if your 1 level higher as a group it can effect the mobs hugely. I am not sure what the exact points are but someone on this forum did work them out.
Quote:
have a wizard make that cool eye to send in and /assist pacify those near the door
I just want to add that magicians also have the Eye of Zomm spell.
Quote:
Point 1: you Hit point / AC Are NOT low for your level, he is 55 not freakin 65 guy's. at 59 with best gear you can reasonalbly buy in bazaar i have 4300 hitpoints 1200 AC with Temp.
Sorry tarv all that means is your gear isn't that good either.
My ranger - 53 - has 3800 hp with Virtue and self buffs. Add Fo7 and I break 4100 easily. Not sure on ac as the profile here is wrong but it is definitely in 4 figures.
That said Takish is notorious for mobs hiding behind doors. Pacify pulling is not really the best option there especially as you near the 55 cut-off. Better to pull the whole mess and lock it down fast with bard and enchanter. Am I right in thinking mages can also CC summoned mobs? or is that a higher level thing?
Wake of Tranquillity is not a very good spell for pacify pulling as it needs line of sight unlike Pacify and Pacification. It also has a high mana cost and long recast.
Really at 55 you are coming to the end of Paladin pacify pulling in LDoN and it is time to develop other techniques anyway. (waits for outburst from paladins
) Tarv is probably right about your having got a group that triggered the next mob-set. There are only 11 (iirc) sets of mobs for the dungeons and the jump from one to the next can set you back. Our little trio were doing fine in Rujarkan until the mob set changed and then suddenly everything was resisted, we hit for less, got hit for more etc, etc. We went and did MM for a couple - which leads me to believe the set changes are staggered - and when we came back to Rujarkan we are fine again having put on a couple of levels.
Personally unless you have some deep need for your Temperance spell (like soloing or having upset large numbers of clerics) I'd spend your points on armour upgrades. Virtue is almost unavoidable in PoK and you will find there isn't much call for Temp in a high 50's group. The frock wearers are all on Pot and your cleric can do better with symbols.
Edited, Fri Feb 27 04:34:33 2004 by Cobra101
Wherever I go - there I am.
Quote:
Really at 55 you are coming to the end of Paladin pacify pulling in LDoN and it is time to develop other techniques anyway. (waits for outburst from paladins )
Yep, that is right. However, the most efficient way to pull, assuming you have a decent Enchanter or bard in LDoNs is to pull multiples.
Also levels >>>> AA for increasing character power. That is not to say that going levels is the only way to go, but if you are getting AAs because you think it will make your character more powerful, then it is not the way to go.
As Cobra says, don't bother with the Pally Temp spell. I just can't think of a time when I would use it myself. Get gear.
If you have a magelo and want gear advice then post a link. I presume the figures you gave were your buffed stats. If so they are maybe a little low.
11 posts
Well - I don't really have a Paly perspective to offer, but from personal experience I find that I can pull Tak quite effectively as a ranger (this is a level 65 perspective however), and you may want to consider a ranger as puller if you have access to one but not to a bard or chanter (monks can also be good but if you get one who likes to try to FD them off to singles all the time it will be way too slow).
The techniques I use are as follows:
1) Make sure I'm invisible until I know the lie of the land (usually right up until I pull). For a ranger the IC AA allows instant invis so this is really reliant on either being a ranger with that AA, having clicky invis, or being a rogue (hide). Only the casters in Tak see invis and they seem to rarely be the ones hiding behind doors in my experience (usually the summoned MOBs)
2) If there is a see-invis MOB that prevents you getting into the room to take a look around, cast bind-sight on a MOB in the middle of the room then use F9 to look round (can also target from this view which can be very useful for pacification). I know chanters can also do this - not sure what other classes.
3) If there is going to be only 1 (or 2 depending on the group) adds then I just pull (using jolt usually so I have no significant aggro and the MT can peel before I get pounded on - any low-aggro spell will do though). In general its a good idea to announce how many you expect to get before pulling.
4) If there is going to be one more than I am happy to deal with then I will root-pull, which leaves one behind (at least initially)
5) If there are more than one more than I think we are prepared to deal with then I will request an assist-me-and-paci from cleric or chanter (if we have one). This does not need line of sight so MOBs targeted from a bind-sight useage which are off to the sides behind the doors can be paci'd like this.
6) I also find it's generally a good idea to target a MOB I expect to get as an add and then switch to the one I will pull shortly before pulling. This allows me to use my switch-to-previous target key (I have TAB mapped to this) and root-park one of the adds efficiently when I get back to, or on the way back to, the group.
On doors - having these close as you run back to the group at the wrong time can be damned annoying so in the room I am pulling from I generally target the MOB, click the door to open it afresh and then cast. It's also not a bad idea to ask someone in your group to hold open the door to the room they are in as well to minimise closed-door-delays.
The techniques I use are as follows:
1) Make sure I'm invisible until I know the lie of the land (usually right up until I pull). For a ranger the IC AA allows instant invis so this is really reliant on either being a ranger with that AA, having clicky invis, or being a rogue (hide). Only the casters in Tak see invis and they seem to rarely be the ones hiding behind doors in my experience (usually the summoned MOBs)
2) If there is a see-invis MOB that prevents you getting into the room to take a look around, cast bind-sight on a MOB in the middle of the room then use F9 to look round (can also target from this view which can be very useful for pacification). I know chanters can also do this - not sure what other classes.
3) If there is going to be only 1 (or 2 depending on the group) adds then I just pull (using jolt usually so I have no significant aggro and the MT can peel before I get pounded on - any low-aggro spell will do though). In general its a good idea to announce how many you expect to get before pulling.
4) If there is going to be one more than I am happy to deal with then I will root-pull, which leaves one behind (at least initially)
5) If there are more than one more than I think we are prepared to deal with then I will request an assist-me-and-paci from cleric or chanter (if we have one). This does not need line of sight so MOBs targeted from a bind-sight useage which are off to the sides behind the doors can be paci'd like this.
6) I also find it's generally a good idea to target a MOB I expect to get as an add and then switch to the one I will pull shortly before pulling. This allows me to use my switch-to-previous target key (I have TAB mapped to this) and root-park one of the adds efficiently when I get back to, or on the way back to, the group.
On doors - having these close as you run back to the group at the wrong time can be damned annoying so in the room I am pulling from I generally target the MOB, click the door to open it afresh and then cast. It's also not a bad idea to ask someone in your group to hold open the door to the room they are in as well to minimise closed-door-delays.
I am not near the level that you are but as a Nec. I need Takish points to get a spell. Tak is much harder than any of the LDA's with the exceptin of Guk, imho. I usually pipe up and ask for a Tak adventure to get my points but if we are not tank heavy, have a bard or enchanter I settle for Everfrost or Mistmore.
When I do Tak with a new group I try to give them a heads up, it is typically a double/triple pull behind most all doors once you hit the hallways.
I am sure what everyone says about your equipment is contributing as well as the high/low group level. But I really think regardless you are going to experience that type of pull in the North Ro adventures.
When I do Tak with a new group I try to give them a heads up, it is typically a double/triple pull behind most all doors once you hit the hallways.
I am sure what everyone says about your equipment is contributing as well as the high/low group level. But I really think regardless you are going to experience that type of pull in the North Ro adventures.
His AC/HP's are good for his level. Not great, but good. I'd like to know the unbuffed numbers, but I'm guessing that they're roughly 1000 AC and 2900 HP's unbuffed. That's not too bado, the AC could use some work, but it's not bad. Add Virtue, Health and Fo7th and you're talking about 4800 or 4900 hp's. Easily can take the hits dished out.
As to the pulling problem: I too would question what levels you are grouping with. I did notice a bump in LDON power in the mid-50's, but that could be who I'm grouping with.
Zel
As to the pulling problem: I too would question what levels you are grouping with. I did notice a bump in LDON power in the mid-50's, but that could be who I'm grouping with.
Zel
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
My pally is 46, so I can't address the pacify issue, but I have always found North Ro pulling a problem at any level. Somewhere else I posted the time where I opened the first door in N. Ro LDON and got agro'd by 4 mobs right away - even though I was unable to see any of them initially. The combination of poor visability and large agro ranges here seem to make adds the norm instead of the exception.
My chanter did a N. Ro LDON this week and I prepared by adding a 2nd mez spell plus an AOE mez for back up. We had a super group including bard, but never got less than 2 on pulls and often 3. The chanter is 67 and 5 in MM but 2 of 4 in N Ro, while the Pally is over 92% success elsewhere but 2 of 6 in N Ro (though 2 were hard collects that we missed by less than a minute due to a couple of wipe outs after coasting through Mistmore at normal with same group).
Crowd Control in N Ro is more critical than in MM or Everfrost in my experience.
My chanter did a N. Ro LDON this week and I prepared by adding a 2nd mez spell plus an AOE mez for back up. We had a super group including bard, but never got less than 2 on pulls and often 3. The chanter is 67 and 5 in MM but 2 of 4 in N Ro, while the Pally is over 92% success elsewhere but 2 of 6 in N Ro (though 2 were hard collects that we missed by less than a minute due to a couple of wipe outs after coasting through Mistmore at normal with same group).
Crowd Control in N Ro is more critical than in MM or Everfrost in my experience.
This is my magelo profile..
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=913576
Thanks for all the good ideas, espically exporing rooms with invis before I decide how to pull.. I often group with a good wizzie friend who always has C3 so that would be a good way to map out the large rooms...
Work on your stamina. Moktor boots and arms, Draconic Pauldrons for your shoulders, and go pure Hp on your other ring (or a combo of Hp+stamina). Also a White Bear Cloak from Kael would be nice for the +75 Hps. I'm on FV so I'm unsure how much, if any, of that is no drop. I'd work on getting a Earring of the Solstice as well.
If those are your actual hp/ac values (sometimes magelo calcs are off), you're down about 100 Ac and 600 hps from where you could be. Getting some better stamina items and pure hp items will go a long way in getting that goal accomplished.
At your level, I'd save up a bit for a couple of the better upgrades available and play the market a bit to get some pp.
Grady
If those are your actual hp/ac values (sometimes magelo calcs are off), you're down about 100 Ac and 600 hps from where you could be. Getting some better stamina items and pure hp items will go a long way in getting that goal accomplished.
At your level, I'd save up a bit for a couple of the better upgrades available and play the market a bit to get some pp.
Grady
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
8 posts
Ok, 65 paladin here. I will give ya what advice I can.
First, Your pacifying days are almost at an end. It sucks, but you will get used to it. Start using Root to pull. It will gaurantee adds, but at least it will be one less add. And a lot of the time, you can kill one before the root breaks.
Aside from that, have a bard pull, or have the chanter/cleric do the pacifying. In LDoN, one of the best pullers is actually the cleric. They can take a few blows and their pascify works much better.
Now for your gear:
Wrists: Do the Bracer of Benevolence quest twice. This is a very good bracer, and it is easy to get.
Arms: Get rid of the ry'gorr. ASAP. Get something with raw HP and stamina on it.
Earrings: Earring of the solstice and Iron Scream earring - need small raid to kill the Terror Matriarch in PoN for this.
Back: If you have a guild that can help, do the Loyalist Shield of Honor quest. This is an awesome back slot for paladins. Or get a white bear pelt cloak.
Face: Grob hide mask - it is cheap. Or veil of the executioner.
Boots: Steelslave bladed boots are excellent.
---That should help ya out a bit.
First, Your pacifying days are almost at an end. It sucks, but you will get used to it. Start using Root to pull. It will gaurantee adds, but at least it will be one less add. And a lot of the time, you can kill one before the root breaks.
Aside from that, have a bard pull, or have the chanter/cleric do the pacifying. In LDoN, one of the best pullers is actually the cleric. They can take a few blows and their pascify works much better.
Now for your gear:
Wrists: Do the Bracer of Benevolence quest twice. This is a very good bracer, and it is easy to get.
Arms: Get rid of the ry'gorr. ASAP. Get something with raw HP and stamina on it.
Earrings: Earring of the solstice and Iron Scream earring - need small raid to kill the Terror Matriarch in PoN for this.
Back: If you have a guild that can help, do the Loyalist Shield of Honor quest. This is an awesome back slot for paladins. Or get a white bear pelt cloak.
Face: Grob hide mask - it is cheap. Or veil of the executioner.
Boots: Steelslave bladed boots are excellent.
---That should help ya out a bit.
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