Bazaar ***** Cry BabiesFollow

Semi-off topic but I have to say that, as a pretty casual guy, the intelligent and helpful posts from people like Tehom, Samira, Outcast, Merrikat, Calimyr, etc have given me the distinct impression that your average "uber" guilder is not a self righteous, arrogant prick. That's not to say none of them are (uber guilders, not the named members) but I've always been impressed with the non-condensending way they answer low-mid range guild questions and offer insight on damn near everything from Vox to Quarm without lording their status.

Tehom is right. You sound like a wannabe trying to find someone to pick on so we'll think you're fantasically uber.

What exactly do you consider a reasonable amount of Time? There are thousands of people who still have yet to see Vex Thal, and that's a 2 year old "high end" raid zone.



What high end zones are these that you are raiding to get droppable items? High end gear is No Drop. Sorry, your entire theory is blown to hell in a handbasket just by that one simple fact.



Since you claim to have such a firm grasp on the high end game, I would love to know what it is that you are able to do exactly? You talk about droppable gear dropping on raids, which doesn't happen in the high end game.

Now let's go a bit further. Your claim is that anything you buy in the bazaar that you consider high end is status gear yes? So you are saying that if someone buys a piece of ornate armor, which will be a huge upgrade, they are not improving their character in a way that will help their guild? People hunt the ornate dropping zones, and some pieces are more rare than others. Would you rather the cleric that is healing you have waited on his streak of bad luck to end on Orante drops so that he could get Boots or Arms, or would you rahter him have spent the money he had to buy them, giving him Mana Pres 4 and Imp Healing 4? I you are a warrior as you claim to be, I would hope I know the answer.




I can't speak for everyone here, but as for myself, I do quite well. I have killed stuff you will never see junior.

Pumping PP into the game? Are they magically making PP appear into their toons accounts?
No.

Scenario A (middlemen resellers)

Resellers BUY it from some thousands of kiddies who think selling 100kpp for 50 bucks they spent 2 months hoarding up so they can go to the movies is free money to them. After all, they where getting the money for having fun playing the game. The fact that if they calculated their avg. per hour wage they are "working" as contractors for IGE at 5 CENTS an hour ( based on a 100pp per hour farming ability, your wage may vary ). IGE then resells at a 100% profit or higher to folks who look at this and say to themselves, hmmmm... I ain't stupid, I make $20.00 an hour at my job. Buy 50k pp for one hours RL work time, or sit in front of computer for 5 HUNDRED hours to get the same amount of PP at 100pp per hour. DUH!

Scenario b (no middleme resellers)

Thousands of kiddies spend thousands of hours killing mobs for pp, 4,000 kiddies per hour generating 100pp each = 400,000 pp pumped into EQ economy (per server). Hmmm.. says the little kiddie to himself.. I got nothin' to buy with all this plat. My Uncle/Friend/Father/Sister/Guildmate/(insert random other player here) could use some plat. "Hey, here's 100kpp to get some stuff with, have fun."


End result? The same. Inflation and folks getting PP to buy stuff that they didn't "earn".

Stop whining. The economy is fine. I have no problems getting what I want when I want it. I make 25kpp a week (blow it all on tradeskills, my armour and stuff is all no drop, get to 250 in all tradeskill soon I hope, nice earring quest.)

Anyone can make this amount as well.
Don't want to earn PP? Earn AP.
Don't want to earn AP? Raid 4 hours a day with a decent guild.
Don't want to raid? Do quests.
Don't want to quest? Go play tic tac toe.

This is EXACTLY the kind of attitude that actually RUINS the game. CODDLING the whiners and crybabbies and loosers that can't compete and can't get the hi end gear on their own because they are too lazy to work for it.

Making them believe that it's NOT them that's a screwup, it's the game, it's the bazaar, it's the bot boxer's, it's the inflation, it's the Gnoll pup that wipes their raid everytime they try to get into Blackburrows.

IF they are a FAMILY guild and only out to have fun, WHY are they whining about not gettting hi end gear? Don't need it to have "fun". If they are out to get the hi end gear and can't, poopoo, too bad, booo hoo. Stop whining.

DON'T CODDLE the babies, you are encouraging the whining.

Not everyone can be a Football star.
Not everyone can be a President of a company.
Not everyone can get hi end gear.

If you can't get hi end gear, be happy with what you have. Jealousy and whining about it isn't going to get me to coddle you, maybe these other bleeding hearts will give you 500kpp so you can buy your Ornate.

My advice?
Get FAST
Get SMART
Get STRONG
Or stay a peasant in peasants clothes.
and stop whining.

You didn't answer Tehom's question though. Or Outcast's.

hmm.. They had a question? They wanted little ol' me to give their esteemed personages some information? whooo hooo, I feel soooo special.. lets see...



Don't know, never bothered to look, not something I care about. Chanters better equipped than me isn't really something that particulary interests me.


Hmmm, for the life of me I can't find Outcast possing me any questions in his post. He is asking some questions of Yosa, but, being so smart as Outcast is, he is also answering his own questions in his own post.

That's true. I mistook Yosa's drivel for yours. Mea cupla.

I was replying to the attitude that says 'wow we have raided this zone for 2 months now we will never come back' what if people still want to raid the zone? are you going to say sorry bud we are to high and mighty so tough Sh*t you'll have to do without item X. I still fail to see why raiding a zone to equip all the people in the guild with the items that they want is such a bad thing.

An example there is a very nice Haste belt that drops of Grieg that all bar a couple of the Pally's and Sk's in the guild have expressed an intrest in getting, should we stop after 2 months when only 25% have the Belt or keep going back when we have the chance untill everyone who wants the item has it?

Taarakian you seem to think EQ is a race or something I MUST GET TO ZONE X AS FAST AS POSIBLE! Well i don't i'll get there when i am good and ready, it's not like it is going anywhere.



At what point did i whine about not getting high end gear? i think you are just on some sort of ego trip attacking people who choose not to be like you. I have never bought Pp i dont need to my gear is fine thanks very much, and i am happy ploding along as i am i enjoy eq for what it is and don't feel the need to flame people for playing differently. If people want to buy PP go ahead enjoy i doesn't effect me or how i play i have come across people who can't play thier class in 20pp worth of gear and 200k worth of gear. A bad player is a bad player.

My alt Wizard is wearing pieces of Time gear, and has better than ornate in like, every slot but head. My retired necro that I recently levelled to 65 out of boredom wears a combination of Ornate and player made elemental tradekill armor.

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here Taar, but you certainly aren't going to impress any of us with you're "I'm so l33t" attitude and your ability to farm 2k an hour (which is pocketchange if you are really farming PP). You certainly won't impress me with your ornate armor. I carry 2 pieces for the neat little clicky effects on them. They take up my bag space, yay. Hell I probably have more HP than your guild's MT /shrug

I didn't say it was a bad amount, just that the attitude he has seems to be that he can make limitless PP at will. Farming at 2k an hour, for someone as uber as he obviously is, is kinda low.

Wow! Lots of sillinesss in this thead. A few points:

Just because a guild is a family or "casual" guild does not mean that they don't raid. It also certainly does not mean that they don't like to upgrade their gear. While I tend to agree that spending a year raiding a single area is a bit much, that's totally up to the people doing the raiding.

A more important question is this: Why *shouldn't* they be allowed to raid BoT for a year? Is there something wrong with that? Every guild is going to approach that issue differently. Ultimately, you play a game because it's "fun". If fun for your guild means getting everyone some nice gear from a particular area, then you'll stay in that area until you've done that. Then you'll move on. If "fun" means hunting an area for the absolute minimum amount of time before your guild can just barely handle the next area, then that's what you'll do. There's no "right" way to do that. There's no "wrong" way to do that. That's why we have different kinds of guilds btw.


And Tarv. I understand what you're saying. Tying into what I just said above, the decision of "how long do we stay here", is probably the hardest decision that a guild's leadership will have to make (over and over no less!). Do you stay farming for haste items until *everyone* has one? Or is there some magic percentage? There's no really good answer to that one. Every guild has to figure that out on it's own. I have certainly seen guilds where the leadership (and some friends) will make sure an area is only farmed until they get their stuff, then move on. Usually, those guilds don't last very long. The problem is that the people who aren't getting loot at each level will eventually not even be useful as cannonfoder on raids and will eventually just leave. While they can keep getting replacements (better and better equiped each time), eventually their rep catches up with them and their guild collapses. Of course, they usually got their goodies out of the ride, so they don't care.

Um. I've also seen guilds collapse because the members insisted on staying too long in an area. Every casual member wants their share, and the core raiders get bored. You can have a problem going either way. The trick is to find something that most of your membership can deal with and stick with it.



As to Yosa and your theories. I think you're wrong on pretty much every count. Ornate is not "status" gear. While the high end folks may see it as crap, it's about the best droppable stuff you can get right now (which is of course why it's being discussed). It's also the only "set" of gear prior to elemental that really allows you to be geared up to move into elemental raids. While you can pick up bits and pieces to get you through, most guilds that are moving into elemental planes are going to do so with a good amount of Ornate on their characters.


Also. I don't remember who brought this up, but calculating the amount of plat generated and the amount of plat used for sales isn't as simple as that. In a "normal" economy, you don't have 100% of the plat generated chasing a single item. Not even close. Also, even assuming plat dupes are fixed, and IGE can't "make" money, that doesn't matter. Their business serves the purpose of concentrating the money in a small area.


Let's say they buy small amounts of plat from a lot of players for low prices. What that means is that the couple k of plat that someone might have spent buying a low end item is now banked with IGE. People generally don't buy in small amounts. They buy large amounts. What that effectively means to the economy is that instead of 100 1k purchases being made, we get 1 100k purchase instead. No matter how you slice it, and even if IGE does nothing else to play with the economy, that alone is going to have a huge effect on prices. If IGE is also buying up high cost items (like Ornate) and then reselling at a markup, they are getting people comming and going.


That's the problem here. It used to be that if you wanted that higher end droppable gear, you could either get the drops yourself, or save up money and buy them. So, it was the folks raiding those zones (yes, even those casual family guilds), and the folks who farmed/bazaared for cash and then bought the leftover Ornate stuff that got it. In both cases, it was generally people who at least had some skill in the game and used that skill to obtain the gear. Today, it's purely about whether someone is willing to shell out the cash to IGE to buy the plat to buy the gear.

the prices rocket cause these guys buying all this money are willing to pay more for items, the ppl selling the items in game click onto this and raise there prices. ive also heard that yantis and IGE have ppl in game who have programs to buy any XXXX item that sells below XXXX price, so they stick these guys in bazaar and this program searches for these items and buys them immediatly when it finds them, meaning these guys have control of all the high end items, they can then sell em at high prices that the ppl who have just bought cash of em are more willing to pay

You see, reading comprehension is your friend.

I'm not coddling or babying anyone. What I am doing is two things.

First I am saying your reasoning about the economy etc are completely wrong. There is no opinion involved, nothing about what to say has an ounce of truth to work with. It's totally and absolutely wrong, to the point of absurdity. YOu don't even know about plat duping scmas for god's sake, how can I expect you to know anything about the economy and why prices are approximately double their former rate.

Second, I am calling you out. Post a Magelo. Post a guild website listing your character on their roster. Post a server where you can be found raiding with your uber guild. All my info is out in the open, I am easy to find. Ask any of the number of posters on this board I have talked to and/or played with in game. What are you hiding? I mean, if you are as uber as you say you are, you should be proud of your gear and your guild's accomplishments should you not? Or at least not too ashamed of them to let them be known.



Careful, Emp Crush can be mean.