Classes: The Paladin
 | Paladins - Icons of Virtue. The paladin combines the strength and battle prowess of a fighter with the healing and buffing of a cleric.
What is the best strategy for developing your paladin? Can a paladin be soloed, and if so, how? How should you play your paladin within a group? What skills should you concentrate on developing? What spells are most useful, and least useful? What armor and weapons should your paladin be seeking out? Post your strategies on how to best play and develop the Paladin and read, rate and comment on what others have to say. |
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I'v been thinking 'what could SOE add to improve on Pallys, or what could be added that could use a wider array of the Paladins many great unique skills, the BB LdoN's opened a new door for us, but i was just wondering what else you all think could be done?
Other than adding a few more zones with lots of undead, i don't think at this point that paladin's need much improvment. Like any class it has some minor issues, but overall I think the class is fairly well balanced. The big thing I like about the class is the learning curve. You can be an effective paladin with only average to good skill, but their are aspects to the class that only a really good player will find and be able to exploit.
25 posts
SK still rules in PvP for melee that is
Since paladins are a gear based class OOW has helped make us more playable. Blade of Disruption I purchased for 3k in bazaar. Anyone with any ability at all can scrape up the 3-6k that thing sells for. And the weapon is "uber" imo so much better than the original epic its not even funny.
25 posts
hmm... imo blade of disruption ain't that good for pally... yes its dmg n stats r quite good but the effect isn't
for a 1handed weapon i feel shiny blade of chaos would be a bit better
for a 1handed weapon i feel shiny blade of chaos would be a bit better
if you are talking about the shiny hammer of chaos, the answer is that the hammer is inferior in any and all aspects that count to the blade of disruption:
(in order of importance to a pally) AC, HP, Proc (the puny rune on chaos cannot even begin to compare with the aggroproc on disruption), DEX, STA
the blade of disruption combined with a solid but not ueber shield even beats the pally's 1.5 by a mile (shows you how sad and useless the pally 1.5 is other than pave the way to 2.0)
(in order of importance to a pally) AC, HP, Proc (the puny rune on chaos cannot even begin to compare with the aggroproc on disruption), DEX, STA
the blade of disruption combined with a solid but not ueber shield even beats the pally's 1.5 by a mile (shows you how sad and useless the pally 1.5 is other than pave the way to 2.0)
Wow bumpage! Anyway....
I have to disagree with your characterization of the paladin 1.5 as useless. It will, in fact to quite a powerful shield to combine with with the BoD to have stats better than they epic. Almost takes high end raid shields (almost, not quite) to do it. For paladins that can't get to those shields, epic 1.5 is an excellent choice. Paladins that can get to the uber whields that would pair up with the BoD and be stronger than the 1.5 are probably after the 2.0 anway. Also, folks that are after 2.0 can get to better weapons than the BoD.
I have to disagree with your characterization of the paladin 1.5 as useless. It will, in fact to quite a powerful shield to combine with with the BoD to have stats better than they epic. Almost takes high end raid shields (almost, not quite) to do it. For paladins that can't get to those shields, epic 1.5 is an excellent choice. Paladins that can get to the uber whields that would pair up with the BoD and be stronger than the 1.5 are probably after the 2.0 anway. Also, folks that are after 2.0 can get to better weapons than the BoD.
of course, 2.0 rules them all. however, it does not take high end shield at all: blade of disruption + even the brightstar buckler > 1.5 and certainly in combination with basalt bulwark or the 340 crystal don shields.
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blade of disruption + even the brightstar buckler > 1.5 and certainly in combination with basalt bulwark
Ummm....no. Lets take a look
Stat Redemp BoD/Brightstar BoD/Basalt
AC 55 60 70
STR 20 22 12
STA 30 12 27
DEX 0 10 20
WIS 20 10 25
AGI 20 10 0
INT 0 10 25
CHA 20 22 12
FR 20 20 12
PR 20 7 10
MR 0 25 37
DR 20 8 0
CR 20 20 0
HP 260 215 205
MANA 240 205 195
END 0 110 0
Effect Heal Foc Stun Stun
Proc Click +2 Reg +8 Rip
+2 Shield +10 Att
As you can se, Redemption stacks up rather nicely and acutally wins/ties in most stats. Even as the loser in AC, its shielding stat evens it out.
If you are not going to be tanking and just need DPS (whicih happens a lot, especially on raids) Redemption is the hands down winner with double the DPS of BoD.
Are there combos of BoD/shield that overpower the 1.5? Yes, but the VAST majority of those combos involve higih end GoD/OOW/DoN raids, and most folks doing those will be after 2.0.
well, i disagree in that i much rather have 15 more AC than +2 shield; whatever the theory, i remember when i got a +1 in shield and saw no effect whatsoever - i quickly dispensed of that.
but you forget one major issue: 1 more augslot - on the DoN shield (which is just 340 crystals = less than 10 missions and has higher stats than basalt), its even 2 - insert 2 easy to get (MUCH easier than redemption thats for sure) AC augs (not necessarily here but in your overall augslots), and we easily talk about 35AC difference (that is if you cant hunt in RSS; if you can hunt in RSS and have access to the 25ac augs as I am lucky to have, it becomes even more obvious) - at that point, I won't even look at other stats (which on my pally are maxed anyway as far as sta, agi and dex are concerned)
plus, stun proc wins over heal any day - even if the stun might not stick on all creatures, it still creates great aggro (certainly higher than puny heals hehe) which are much needed as we fight with high dps groups.
i will not deny that the overall proc combo is nice (plus its clicky which is always nice), however, as i will never be counted by my dps, they are only icing - as far as i am concerned, ac and defensive are my first concern and there it lets me down badly; the fact that such cookiecutter combos as we discuss get even higher on ac is sad.
for pure dps i will thus certainly not go after redemption - the don weapons give me a nice 34(or so) / 61, + 1 magic, 3 proc 2hb weapon (augmented) which so far has max critted at 1.1 which aint bad for pallies
long stroy short, i know i will never have the nerve or support to go after 2.0 - therefore, if i invest the time and effort to get 1.5 in other stuff or aa i will always come out better imho
but you forget one major issue: 1 more augslot - on the DoN shield (which is just 340 crystals = less than 10 missions and has higher stats than basalt), its even 2 - insert 2 easy to get (MUCH easier than redemption thats for sure) AC augs (not necessarily here but in your overall augslots), and we easily talk about 35AC difference (that is if you cant hunt in RSS; if you can hunt in RSS and have access to the 25ac augs as I am lucky to have, it becomes even more obvious) - at that point, I won't even look at other stats (which on my pally are maxed anyway as far as sta, agi and dex are concerned)
plus, stun proc wins over heal any day - even if the stun might not stick on all creatures, it still creates great aggro (certainly higher than puny heals hehe) which are much needed as we fight with high dps groups.
i will not deny that the overall proc combo is nice (plus its clicky which is always nice), however, as i will never be counted by my dps, they are only icing - as far as i am concerned, ac and defensive are my first concern and there it lets me down badly; the fact that such cookiecutter combos as we discuss get even higher on ac is sad.
for pure dps i will thus certainly not go after redemption - the don weapons give me a nice 34(or so) / 61, + 1 magic, 3 proc 2hb weapon (augmented) which so far has max critted at 1.1 which aint bad for pallies
long stroy short, i know i will never have the nerve or support to go after 2.0 - therefore, if i invest the time and effort to get 1.5 in other stuff or aa i will always come out better imho
IMHO, I think that we Knights should be given a snare at some point. Our fear undead spell line would be more useful if we had a similar ability that our hybrid cousin Rangers have. I don't think the spell should be granted until later in our careers, like season 40-ish, but it would breath life back into our ability to solo and duo after our 50th season.
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well, i disagree in that i much rather have 15 more AC than +2 shield; whatever the theory, i remember when i got a +1 in shield and saw no effect whatsoever - i quickly dispensed of that.
Shielding +2 is far superior to 15 AC. Granted, neither of them show up much (shielding in paticular can be difficult to parse), but shielding is better. 15AC will not mitigate much, especially in the high end, where it is usually a 1% AC change at best. I've talked to several tank friends from casual to high end raid, and they would take the shielding way before the +15 AC. Even with augs from RSS, the shielding gives you more protection over time.
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plus, stun proc wins over heal any day - even if the stun might not stick on all creatures, it still creates great aggro (certainly higher than puny heals hehe) which are much needed as we fight with high dps groups.
If you are MT, then you have a point, but often (especially in raids) we are not. Then you don't want all that aggro. Even then, I have YET to lose aggro tanking with Redemption and stunning, even with high DPS. The only way you would was if the rest of the group wasn't be careful. Most high end toons ARE careful, so its rarely a problem.
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ac and defensive are my first concern and there it lets me down badly;
As I noted above, it doesn't let you down in defense as much as you are thinking. Combined with the heal focus, which strengths heals that land on you from healers, it makes up for this. The exception of course being CHeals, as the focus does not work on them, but most pallies don't use the full 10K of a CHeal anyway.
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for pure dps i will thus certainly not go after redemption - the don weapons give me a nice 34(or so) / 61, + 1 magic, 3 proc 2hb weapon (augmented) which so far has max critted at 1.1 which aint bad for pallies
1.1 crit is nice. Redemption crits have been known to go twice that higih, whicih is even better. On undead, with SU3, they have critted for up to 8 K. Think I will stick with Redemption on that count.
well, we have to agree to disagree on the shield / ac account for sure (in my case in particular you are talking about 60+ ac difference upon giving up my shield, not to speak of my maxed shield related AA's, which makes a significant difference for high end as much as medium end contents; i tried it in RS and even 25ac increments were an obvious improvement), but i think we've beaten this to death, heh
I am mostly talking about the effects on being MT which makes up most of our time - it is very rare that a good and fast group would contain a warrior and a pally
for dps in raids, redemption is of course nice but imho not worth the effort as we are never dps machines: on average i spend way more time casting group heals and cures, stunning to prepare mobs for cc, or offtanking than making even nearly full use of my dps anyway
i truly think, they should have either given a significantly higher defensive function to the redemption or made our epic a shield which then should have allowed us to use all our shield related AA's to the max; in that case, i would have been motivated / tempted to start the timesink; as it stands, i am more motivated to seek a further upgrade for my shield or 1h weapon
that was the main point of my posts in the first place: the fact that you can even sit down and argue about the quality of the 1.5 in comparison to such bog standard cookie cutter equipment like a BoD/BW/BB or DoN shield combo in THE most important area for pallies (ac/defensive protection) is patently wrong imho. of course, the 1.5 sports much higher dps than these combos but as dps is not our primary function that does not matter. i think that epics should be a direct enhancement of the primary function and in that department the advantage (even if i follow your line of argumentation) is negligible.
if we are looking at a pally's secondary function, i would still say that the enhancement (if any) is negligible, because the secondary function is being a caster and not dps. in that area the wis / mana stats are roughly a wash (certainly in the higher end where we have buffed about 7k mana give or take). therefore, i'd have rather seen +mana regen than +regen
just to clarify: this is not to say that i don't appreciate the effort people take for this and the achievement in it and i certainly congratulate you for getting the 1.5
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:01:09 2005 by tetriak
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:10:16 2005 by tetriak
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:31:35 2005 by tetriak
I am mostly talking about the effects on being MT which makes up most of our time - it is very rare that a good and fast group would contain a warrior and a pally
for dps in raids, redemption is of course nice but imho not worth the effort as we are never dps machines: on average i spend way more time casting group heals and cures, stunning to prepare mobs for cc, or offtanking than making even nearly full use of my dps anyway
i truly think, they should have either given a significantly higher defensive function to the redemption or made our epic a shield which then should have allowed us to use all our shield related AA's to the max; in that case, i would have been motivated / tempted to start the timesink; as it stands, i am more motivated to seek a further upgrade for my shield or 1h weapon
that was the main point of my posts in the first place: the fact that you can even sit down and argue about the quality of the 1.5 in comparison to such bog standard cookie cutter equipment like a BoD/BW/BB or DoN shield combo in THE most important area for pallies (ac/defensive protection) is patently wrong imho. of course, the 1.5 sports much higher dps than these combos but as dps is not our primary function that does not matter. i think that epics should be a direct enhancement of the primary function and in that department the advantage (even if i follow your line of argumentation) is negligible.
if we are looking at a pally's secondary function, i would still say that the enhancement (if any) is negligible, because the secondary function is being a caster and not dps. in that area the wis / mana stats are roughly a wash (certainly in the higher end where we have buffed about 7k mana give or take). therefore, i'd have rather seen +mana regen than +regen
just to clarify: this is not to say that i don't appreciate the effort people take for this and the achievement in it and i certainly congratulate you for getting the 1.5
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:01:09 2005 by tetriak
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:10:16 2005 by tetriak
Edited, Mon Jul 4 11:31:35 2005 by tetriak
Shielding is by FAR superior to AC in the high end. I was never saying that BOD is greater than epic combo, unless you pair it with a Shield of Strife or another shield that already HAS shielding on it. In that case... maybe. But all i was saying is that OOW has made paladins and SKs playable again to the casual player with oathbound armours and BODs etc...
And to my knowledge there is no other easily attainable sword that even comes CLOSE to the BOD. to argue that is basically ridiculous.
And to my knowledge there is no other easily attainable sword that even comes CLOSE to the BOD. to argue that is basically ridiculous.
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