Alright, I'm curious why anyone at all would make a rogue nowadays when they can make a berserker. I'd like people to tell what bonuses rogues have over zerkers. My main is a rogue, and I'm wondering why I don't just start a zerker up for these reasons:

First off, SOE screwed up. Every DPS class have a huge role/a utility to support the group with other then DPS other then Rogues/Berserkers nowadays. Rogues used to be the premiere pure melee DPS class, and nowadays there are 2 pure DPS classes, zerker and rogue. So, since there are 2 classes that only get groups for their DPS, if one is better at dealing damage then the other... you see where I'm going. DPS wise, zerkers usually clock in ahead of rogues, if not close behind. If you want to get technical, rogues are only wanted for their DPS and zerkers are wanted for only their DPS, but they also have the ability to snare/stun mobs and have many more tomes.

What they do best, DPS: Zerkers do not need to position themselves, so no matter what they are dealing their best DPS, on the other hand we have rogues, and if rogues are not in back of the mob or they hit a lag spike, their DPS is dead. Zerkers can do rogue DPS without positioning, where as if a rogue hits a lag spike while in the process of positioning, there goes your DPS.

Off-Tanking: It is a fact that zerkers are better then rogues at this. Unlike rogues, they get a knight's HP table, and there are many other reasons why they are better at OTing, but I'm not going to get into all the reasons.

Ranged Fights: Zerkers can summon axes and have tomes to make them stronger, rogues have the tomes but not the AAs/ability to summon throwing/ranged items unless they grinded Undershore/Rallos Zek (pot version)/or the Cellar mindlessly for hours/days/weeks/months. Even if a rogue were to be better then a zerker at ranged dps, which they aren't, why spend months farming ranged items when you can just make a zerker which can just summon the things?

Oh Wait, Rogues have Hide/Sneak/Escape!: Zerkers can Snare and Stun. Also, it is convenient for you, but look at it in a group perspective. First off, what good are you doing the group if you are paying more attention to your own survival then the livelyhood of the group? Hide/Sneak/Escape is a convenient tool, not something that helps the group. In a raid situation the necros would FD, mobs go away, necros rez dead people. The whole raid wiped? The guild splinter in the guild hall is the way to go. Dragging corpses for a group? Think about it, you can't even rez the corpse, you just move it over to the zone line for the cleric that died to run all the way back to and rez. You are just a time-saver! If a rogue weren't in the group, all they'd need to do is grab a few invis pots while out of the zone, run back, get the corpse themselves.

Also on Hide/Sneak: You cannot be seen by most mobs in the game. Who cares? If you are in a group and you can get past a mob that invis people normally can't, kudos to you, but that doesn't mean your group can. Again, convenient for you, not for group members. Itd be cool if there were quests in the game that used Hide/Sneak.

Soloing: This is the rogue class forum, I am sure we all already know how bad rogues are at soloing. Again, something zerkers are far better at.

Cheaper and Easier: Zerkers by far. Alright, for first, most/all high end weaps are lore weaps and for the most part hard to obtain the best of the best weaps. Rogues have to work hard/use more plat to get their weapons, since they have to buy/fight for 2 weapons. Zerkers on the other hand only have to focus on getting 1 badass 2-hander. Math, what is cheaper, 2 weapons or 1 weapon? Math, what is easier to fight for, 2 weapons or 1 weapon? Also, keep this in mind, less classes can use 2 hand weapons then classes that can use 1 hand weapons, which means less classes roll for the 2 hand weapons then people do the 1 hand weapons. That makes 2 hand weaps for zerker even easier to obtain, and 1 hand weaps for rogues harder. Believe me, I've gotten pissed off/surprised when people have rolled for/taken daggers that were upgrades to my dagger, and they weren't even rogues! (damn beastlords)

So, what we have is this, zerkers deal more/as much DPS without all the hassle/worrying about lag killing your DPS, zerkers are better at Off-Tanking, zerkers are better at ranged fighting, they are both desired in groups for ONLY DPS, and in a group situation hide/sneak is nearly useless. And, for the new players/old players LF an alt, berserkers are easier to build up and cheaper.
-DONE-

Please tell I'm wrong, and that there is actually a point in playing rogues




Edited, Sep 25th 2008 1:11am by rocknrollkid

I'm just going to guess you've never played either class up past level 30 or so. Both are DPS classes, but rogues sacrifice a bit of DPS for utility where zerkers are specifically just about pure DPS... so it makes sense they edge out rogues by a narrow margin in some fights. Part of this is due to 30% of rogues damage needs to come from behind a mob, where a zerker can stand anywhere and deliver; if a tank fails to position a mob correctly it cripples a rogue's damage output (as you pointed out). However, through AAs rogues can backstab from any angle.

Offtanking: yeah, zerkers have a knight's hp table and can offtank blue mobs in a group settling. Since rogues are a DPS class and not a tanking class I don't ever expect them to fullfill a tanking role so you're arguement there is kind of pointless.



What other reasons? Rogues and zerkers have the -same- defensive AAs and wear the -same- armor type.



Trivial considering most of the content in the game doesn't require you to fight from ranged.



Rogues can snare with AAs, and for less than 3 plat can make a poison (whose components are all vendor sold) that is both a 50% snare and 50% slow. They also have tomes that allow them to stun mobs. But zerkers cannot hide, sneak or escape...



Zerkers can solo???????????????? News to me.



Now you are reeaaalllyy reaching, this is a pretty weak argument.



You just seem to have a biased opnion for some reason is all, the only point you were able to make was that zerkers have a few more hitpoints. While I will agree that rogues are far from perfect, they aren't any better or worse than zerkers IMO. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.


EDIT: With the new poison revamp rogues will move ahead of zerkers in both DPS and utility. With the ability to stack 2 poisons at a time on a weapon and the ability to stack multiple poison types (like the 5500 DD proc poison with the 68% slow proc poison) rogues will now be able to do some insane damage, and will be able to solo (well, be able to duo with a healer merc anyways). They even have a one-shot application poison that opens with a 32k DD.

Zerkers and rogues can both dish out some nice damage, they just have different ways of doing so. But poisons have edged rogues ahead now.




Edited, Apr 16th 2009 7:26am by Sarthar

Edited, Apr 16th 2009 7:28am by Sarthar

I ALWAYS looked at two weapons being an advantage. It gave me the freedom to use very nice 1HB, 1HS, or a Peircing weapon in second hand.

I haven't played a beastlord past teens but I don't think I have seen any near my level who were putting out "more" DPS than me. As long as a rogue is well kept with the newer items coming out there is no reason a zerker should outdamage a rogue IMO.

Rogues are fun. hands down. even more fun now that i can have a cleric in my backpocket to revisit lower level dungeons and can take on rares/fabled spawns.

Theiven
on Zek

Just like to mention this as well, have you ever seen a big ole' zerker try and sneak around...let alone pick a lock or disarm a trap, it's quite comical, but the rogue is only good for DPS right? They don't do any of that either, I forgot.

OK. First off I just started a Rogue today and looked this up to get tips on how to play the class. Secondly, I am not too sure what the differences are but I am sure there are some. I personally play a class to play the class. It is not all about power play. For me it is about the fun, the exploration, the questing, and the adventuring. People who are all about the power play are losing out on the experience of the game. People who are all about how fast they can level and how far they can get before anyone else is just not into the game itself. It sounds to me rocknrollkid that you are kind of jealous of Berserkers. This is a role playing game. If competition scares you then pick a easier class with less competition. If Rogues only competition in game is a Berserker I see no problems. Not everyone is going to choose a Zerker over a Rogue for their group. Also Rogues are not Tanks. Zerkers are considered the 3rd best tank in game.